Business Alliance Between Devotees

[Guest guest]

I have a strong feeling that promoting business alliances between devotees will help individual devotees make money for their families and also help build a global business community with devotees at the center. Even people who are "non-devotees" would benefit by association with the devotees because they will get educated about some of the devotional principles. I recollect the story of a friend of mine who wanted to succceed in business but was not interested in devotion. Somehow he came in contact with devotees and judging his intentions a devotee promised him that he will get international alliances for his jewel business if he went to mayapur because there are so many foreigners there. He went and got attracted to devotional service instead! He is practising for over ten years now. Of course, he also got a lot of international contacts for his jewel business-

 

Ofcourse, it is important that devotees do not exploit each other in the name of business or devotion. Any thoughts ?

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

I think this is a very good idea. For communities to thrive we need to mobilize our capital. Most people won't give much to the temple, but if we can develop devotee business men & women, then people might invest money towards projects that have some 'spill over' benefit to the vaisnava community. This way they keep their money, but there is still benefit for devotees. What sorts of businesses? I think hotels can work well. Mostly on a day to day basis they are not sold out to full capacity. You could have spare rooms so that lifemembers have excellent accomodations. The temples could give some money to have it set up so that if a room is available then the lifemembers can get it. The temple then wouldn't have to maintain a full time room, which most often won't be used. Thats one idea. Any others of businesses that might have 'spill' over effects?

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

I think this is a very good idea. For communities to thrive we need to mobilize our capital. Most people won't give much to the temple, but if we can develop devotee business men & women, then people might invest money towards projects that have some 'spill over' benefit to the vaisnava community. This way they keep their money, but there is still benefit for devotees. What sorts of businesses? I think hotels can work well. Mostly on a day to day basis they are not sold out to full capacity. You could have spare rooms so that lifemembers have excellent accomodations. The temples could give some money to have it set up so that if a room is available then the lifemembers can get it. The temple then wouldn't have to maintain a full time room, which most often won't be used. Thats one idea. Any others of businesses that might have 'spill' over effects?

There need not be any investment from the temple itself. The first thing is the community should have ways to maintain and be wealthy so that the rest of the society absorbs the ideals. The devotees would any way spend for the temple.

 

I think there are innumerable ways to do international business - small and medium. And perhaps big eventually. We should draw from the models of the jews, gujarathis etc.

[theist]

Businesses with a spill over effect?

 

Flower shops or stands.Garlands or single flowers like gardenias that the congregation can purchase for the Deities(if the shop is close enough to the temple), along with the general public buying for their desires.This would increase the involement in personal devotion for temple visitors.

 

Produce shops.Sell good grade produce and bulk food at very good prices to the public.Provide extra to prasadam programs and to..

 

Diners club and restraunts.

 

Prasadam street wagons.Nice stainless steel prasadam mobile vendors at every campus.Keep the prices low and the helpings big and concentrate on volumn.

 

Basically food and flowers.

 

Nothing new here though, just go ask the Haribols how its done.They have been successful for quite a while.

 

TREAT EACH OTHER HONESTLY!!!

[Tarun]

In 1971, all 30 temples were supported by Spiritual Sky incense.

We bought sticks, oils, bottled them, dipped them, printed packs, packaged 20 sticks/pack, held classes & readings during packaging, delivered orders...

10 sticks in 2 hands = 20 = one package filled = Hare RAma

5th Hare = 9, 1st RAma = 10

RAma RAma: Our Supremely Personal Decimal Basis

Bhakta Dewey Decimal => Dewey/dui prabhu bhojane bosilo

Economics ~ EkanAmiks ~ Eka nAm = One Name = RAm (KRSNa later)

SpSky main centers were Pittsburgh, New VRndAvan, New Dvarka

Each temple had its own mini-operation & distribution going on.

It was great till we began to sell it off in favor of Book Sales.

In 1975, after Culver City culprits fired 3-4 sAdhu salesmen, hiring one 400 lb flesh-eater at 3K/month instead, I knew ISKCON was already down the toilet even during SP's presence.

Typical cult craziness.

Their excuse: "Oh! But fabulous flesh-devouring fatso donated an expensive sari to Our Deity RukminI on JanmASTami!"

Yeah, the sari cost $50-$75. Big deal.

Those sAdhu-salesmen were subsisting on apt rent + $40-$50/week.

We owned the apts so rent was only 150-250/month.

Fantastic Fatso couldn't live on our sAdhu-salesman's weekly salary per day!

What a farce! Emphatically I repeat: what a farce!

Why follow Ugrasena & Yudhisthir? Jail & exile them respectively.

Better we enthrone KaMsarAj & Duryodhan.

That way we can sell more newspapers. Stupid half-ass schmucks.

In our VNN article "By Hook or Crook" we explain how & why.

In short, never forget, when we make ghee, impurities rise to top.

In Keli Karandhar's absence, Robust Roberto Ramezvar somehow convinced SP to phase out incense sales altogether.

"Our temples can be supported by book sales alone."

Oh really? Oh Reilly!

Totally outrageous! Injurious itihAsa! Historical Horsemanure!

Self-inflicted sabotage. Hate yourself - spread it epidemically

Pink Floyd defeated such nonsense within one 2hr flick. Easy pickins

I don't need a guru to see what levels of S&M went on in God's Name.

We have met the enemy... us.

In 1977, Manhattan temple devotees started a candle business.

Seemed okay till one or two mismanagers managed to...

well u know the rest.

Within 1 yr it had risen, floated, folded: phenomenol not noumenal

One Indian devotee in Alachua is employing a few devotees.

He has a nice house, pious family. Cordial. Great game room. Aha!

There r exceptions. Existent, though few & far between.

[Rati]

I'm game. I have a small IT consulting company and have been attempting to network for new clients in an abysmal economy. Any leads would be appreciated. I specialize in development with Microsoft .NET (and previous verions of Visual Studio - C++/VB), SQL Server, Oracle and Rational Rose. Email: mtcorp@attbi.com

 

Much obliged. Also, glad to help anyone else in any way I can (referrals, resume or proposal writing, whatever).

 

[karthik_v]

One model to consider may be that of Aurobindo ashram. I have heard that SP was also very appreciative of that. AA folks basically maintain an excellent network and start businesses. They run many types of businesses, such as manufacturing computers, selling incense etc., so long as it doesn't clash with their ideals. They use Aurobindo ashram's logo and brand and a part of their profit goes back to the ashram.

 

The results are amazing. The ashramites are affluent. They have built some of India's best schools. And, they keep funding the ashram. In comparison, ISKCON depends on donations for most part. That is fraught with dangers, as you are entirely dependent on someone's willingness to donate.

[Rati]

That would be great if everyone here would be willing to set aside sectarian disputes and agree to fund a central foundation to promote Gaudiya Vaishnavism, irrespective of sampradaya (or even Vaishnavism or Hinduism in general), or just for book publication by Vaishnava academics. Absent that, the network model has proven effective over the past couple of decades for building business relationships and acquiring clients/customers or jobs via that approach. I have been frustrated with the Elance services part of Ebay for tracking down projects. I think we could develop something much more useful and effective.

 

Then there's the Heaven's Gate model, wherein the people involved get so caught up in a fanatical cult that they resort to bizarre behavior like self-castration and eventually mass suicide - not a good example to follow.

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-22-2002).]

[Gauracandra]

I have heard that Srila Siddhaswarupananda's community works alot towards building up a business base. Also, the Aurobindo ashram is certainly an interesting model we could follow. Restaurants are always a bit difficult. I have thought that devotees should focus on businesses where products are sent outwards, rather than waiting for people to come to the business. For instance restaurants have a limited geographic area. But incense you can send all over the world. A long time back I posted a story of 2 vegetarians who started up a frozen food business. They were having sales in the multimillions of dollars. I don't have the article in front of me, but I almost want to say over $50 million per year. So that might be $3-5 million profit each year (just a guestimate). Vegetarian frozen food I think could be a very good business to enter into. Just a few ideas.

[Krsnacandra dasa]

I don't think that a business alliance would work, simply because there is a complete lack of unity with the devotees. All one has to do is ask "who is your guru?" and if they don't like your guru, they'd probably rather give their business to a karmi than to you. You hear about microcosms of cooperation like the Hilo Ratha Yatra; other than that, nothing. Too much distrust.

[Rati]

Exactly my point as well. What right do they have to ask who your guru is in the first place?

[Rati]

All true. If we get a network of Vaishnavas together, it is also going to be difficult to not have non-Vaishnavas involved, wouldn't you agree? All the more reason to downplay the religious affiliations (even though we know that under the surface we are helping other devotees and indirectly supporting Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's cause).

 

My knowledge of networking, from some real estate sales training classes I attended years ago, is that it involves what is called one's sphere of influence (relatives, alumni associations, friends, professional contacts, church/temple, civic organizations, country clubs, literally everything that brings us into some contact with others and provides the opportunity to market to them). The key is to tap into that sphere of influence, as opposed to the approach known as cold calling (literally picking names out of the phone book). The latter approach is inherently going to yield far fewer sales.

 

What finds in America today (at least in our area) are various sales leads groups that meet and exchange contacts. Some of them are exclusive - only allowing in one member from a single industry to avoid internal competitiveness, whereas others are open membership. We could start such a group (either several exclusive ones or a single open membership one) online, if anyone is interested.

 

A networking effort can be very beneficial and does not require some controlling influence by some sect or organization to have likeminded Vaishnavas involved.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 04-23-2002).]

[Tarun]

I'd much rather deal with devotees than vikarmis.

Even if they have a slightly different idea.

See the positive side.

Audarya, GM, GVS, IRM, ISEV, ISKCON, PSS, VRNDA...

Hey! Anyone who's chanting HK publicly, I'll join in.

As for intimate dealings, well that's a different story.

[leyh]

Originally posted by Krsnacandra dasa:

I don't think that a business alliance would work, simply because there is a complete lack of unity with the devotees. All one has to do is ask "who is your guru?" and if they don't like your guru, they'd probably rather give their business to a karmi than to you. You hear about microcosms of cooperation like the Hilo Ratha Yatra; other than that, nothing. Too much distrust.

 

One thing I have noticed about some devotees that I've met is that they are very preoccupied about what "camp" you belong to.I have met some devotees,upon knowing that I worship Krsna,will try to pry about which temple I'm from or who are the devotees that I associate with.These has happened a few times and I feel as if I'm being investigated.

 

I believe that devotees (not just Vaishnavas,but all spiritual seekers) shouldn't be so sectarian.Can't we just accept each other as people first and and foremost? Sectarianism is de-personalizing in the sense that devotees are no longer recognized as people and are instead impersonally perceived as members of this camp or that clique...

 

 

 

[theist]

 

leyh said:

"Sectarianism is de-personalizing in the sense that devotees are no longer recognized as people and are instead impersonally perceived as members of this camp or that clique..."

 

I agree.Extended false ego.My family, my nation, my race, my camp& clique.

 

Isn't this the perverted reflection of the groupings of devotees that exist in the spiritual world?

 

Different souls will be attracted to different associations.That is natural.But that will happen by the direction of Supersoul.Our coersive recruiting tactics are just a disturbance.

 

The best way to attract sincere souls is to always be intensifying our Krishna consciousness.

 

Seems to me anyway.

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Hey how about this:

 

Vaisnava Economic Development Association - VEDA

 

I think it would be good to create something that was accessible to members of all Vaisnava lines. The only way to do that would be to set aside philosophy. But then why make it a "Vaisnava" network in the first place if there is no Vaisnava philosophical thrust. Thats the trick (or atleast one of them).

[Tarun]

What if a 'devotee' requests: "Treasurer Prabhu!

Please forward me so much today. I'l pay u back month's end."

Then what?

This has happened so many times, ananta = countless.

Like Arthur Andersen on a supposedly higher level.

"Oh Prabhuji! Be merciful!"

Or what about when JanAnanda blissfully takes off with the temple/company van!?

U call the cops. They ask his name.

U hold the phone, turn to another devotee:

"What was his legal name again? Joe? Jack? John? Jim? Jake?"

I've seen this occur so many times I can write off-Broadway Dramas about it in my sleep.

susupti ca. Deep sleep too. Sans Spelling Checks.

Still your idea is good. It's possible.

But we have to take as many precautions as vikarmis do.

The assumption of someone else's KC is insufficient.

For example, many join ISKCON being attracted to other's humility.

"Hey, once I move up the ladder, these devotees will be easy to manipulate.

And believe it or not, to top it off, most of them work for free!

What a cinch! Which rip-off opportunity could be idealer?"

Ergo, leave no salagram-sila stone unturned.

[Rati]

Tarun: That's why I am proposing a network as opposed to an enterprise. This would be independent entrepreneurs uniting to help one another in the marketplace, rather than an enterprise on the Spirtual Sky model.

 

A financial institution such as a bank could be good as well, but would require the usual checks and balances to prevent unsound lending practices and fraud.

[Bhakta Don Muntean]

Originally posted by Rati:

Tarun: That's why I am proposing a network as opposed to an enterprise. This would be independent entrepreneurs uniting to help one another in the marketplace, rather than an enterprise on the Spirtual Sky model.

 

A financial institution such as a bank could be good as well, but would require the usual checks and balances to prevent unsound lending practices and fraud.

Dear Rati:

 

Please accept my humble obeisances

 

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

 

I like this idea -- networks are good!

 

You're a very Bright Soul!

 

Myself and my godbrother wish to open a restaurant/center -- we have made a proposal -- could you tell us what you think of it -- if we send it to you?

 

YS,

 

Bhakta don

 

[Tarun]

I liked Spiritual Sky's set up, specially while JT was chief.

When he became GBC instead, due to Karandhar's Crisis..

It was not a pretty picture.

Like switching pitcher 4 catcher & vice-versa during 5th inning till game's end.

And boy did it end!

Karandhar was an almost ideal GBC, JT was an almost ideal vaizya.

When I recall how they cooperated side by side, serving ViSNu & VaiSNav, I become excited, inspired even 30 yrs later.

[Rati]

Karandhar was definitely an expert manager. He displayed that and other remarkable traits in Bombay.

[Guest guest]

Two of us in this forum are working out a business deal. I would like to post the results after a practical experience. Has any one else found some thing else to do between members in our group ?

 

 

[Tarun]

How 'bout an annual dinner or cyberspace/3-D space get-together?

A Face-Voice to Thread-Post Match Revelation Festival.

Business before Pleasure. Or Hold a Both a la Fois Feast.

But I guess we live too far from each other. Meeting would be costly.