Celibacy

[abhi_the_great]

Originally posted by jndas:

After chanting Krishna's divine name for years, are we still the "human-animals" described in the Bhagavatam?

If I look at the history of ISKCON, I shd conclude that many are still human-animals, but fortunately have an interest in Srila Prabhupad and his teachings. After many many years of serious chanting and sadhana and service to Srila Prabhupad, why have so many fallen down? If it was one or two, I can understand its an exception. But the numbers are much more.

 

To completely control sex life is not at all easy, its almost impossible. This is my humble understanding, from what I experience within and what I see mostly happening without.

 

I think it might take chanting for hundreds of births, not a few years, to purify us. Still, it might not be possible. But it is surely possible by the mercy of Guru and Gauranga. It takes time to become completely chaste and pure. Some of us might have been chanting for more births, so it might be easy for them.

 

No, I am not promoting illicit sex, but saying that better have as much sex inside the institution of marriage than having sex outside marriage. If you can have sex only for procreation, its the best. But, in whatever condition you are, continue your sadhana and pray to Krishna sincerely. There is no point being needlessly guilty. That will spoil ones interest in bhakti.

 

Philosophy has to be rooted in reality, otherwise it becomes impractical for the common folk.

 

Kama is the 3rd purushartha, and it is the point where ones lust in vented. This is in the grihasthasrama. Its a natural emotion. Its also true, that there is no training required to enjoy, but a lot of restraint has to be excercised to control!!

 

I do not know how it feels when one spends nearly 30yrs in grihasta-asrama. I am just 3 yrs into my married life. I wd like the senior grihastas to comment if a feeling of renunciation creeps in, or one gets bored of ones partner, or spiritual cravings take the priority. What really happens?

 

Or does it drop off like jijaji's leaf:

 

Hare Krishna.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Kama is the 3rd purushartha, and it is the point where ones lust in vented.

...which leads to frustration and an ultimate desire to renounce the world through moksha, the fourth purusharta. Bhoga (enjoyment) and tyaga (renunciation) are the two sides of the pendulum, swinging back and forth. Such moods of renunciation are temporary and ultimately swing back to the desire to enjoy.

 

Sri Chaitanya established a fifth purushartha, one that is the true self-interest of the living entity, namely love for God. Rather than being caught up in dharma, artha, kama and moksha, which more or less leave one more entangled then one started, it is better to at least aim for the ultimate goal of life, prema-prayojana.

 

abhideya-nama bhakti prema -- prayojana

purusartha-siromani prema maha-dhana

 

"Devotional service, or sense activity for the satisfaction of the Lord, is called abhidheya because it can develop one's original love of Godhead, which is the goal of life. This goal is the living entity's topmost interest and greatest wealth. Thus one attains the platform of transcendental loving service unto the Lord."

 

Srila Prabhupada's purport to this verse is relevant:

 

"The conditioned soul is bewildered by the external material energy, which fully engages him in a variety of sense gratification. Due to engagement in material activities, one's original Krsna consciousness is covered. However, as the supreme father of all living entities, Krsna wants His sons to return home, back to Godhead; therefore He personally comes to deliver Vedic literatures like Bhagavad-gita. He engages His confidential servants who serve as spiritual masters and enlighten the conditioned li ving entities. Being present in everyone's heart, the Lord gives the living entities the conscience whereby they can accept the Vedas and the spiritual master. In this way the living entity can understand his constitutional position and his relationship with the Supreme Lord. As personally enunciated by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gita (15.15), vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah: through the study of Vedanta, one may become fully aware of his relationship with the Supreme Lord and act accordingly. In this way one may ultimately attain the platform of loving service to the Lord. It is in the living entity's best interest to understand the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the living entities have forgotten; therefore Srimad-Bhagavatam says: na te viduh sv artha-gatim hi visnum (Bhag 7.5.31)."

 

"Everyone wants to achieve life's ultimate goal, but due to being absorbed in the material energy, we waste our time with sense gratification. Through the study of Vedic literatures - of which the essence is Bhagavad-gita - one comes to Krsna consciousne ss. Thus one engagaes in devotional service, called abhidheya. When actually developed, love of Godhead is called prayojana, the living entity's ultimate goal. When one becomes fully Krsna conscious, he has attained the perfection of life."

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-07-2002).]

[Rati]

Anyone read that book on Celibacy that Jagat provided the link for?

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-07-2002).]

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Abhi the great:

One practical question here, how many of those coming into ISKCON are really worth to be preached abt brahmacarya and sannyasa heavily? How many were brainwashed abt sannyasa and finally fell down. The percentage is quite large, especially in ISKCON. They all read this philosophies and advices, which you have stated. Still why?? Why does ISKCON's name make people to look down at you? Bcos of the fanatic preaching of Sannyasa. That is the only answer. Trying to make celibates of people who have a different nature, not fit for celibacy.

I would agree with this. ISKCON teachings on these issues are so fanatical that even very religious families are upset when their kids start going to ISKCON. My neighbours in Chennai warned my parents that ISKCON brainwashes when my bachelor brother started going to ISKCON, giving the example of her 2 nephews who became brahmacharis. Also, there is so much preaching against mayavada that these new converts abuse even great saints like the Paramacarya of Kanchi Sankara mutt. All this upsets the family. Empathy is what matters here. If I were a religious Hindu parent, I will be be upset with ISKCON for making my child lose interest in sex. I will be even more upset when ISKCON has brainwashed my child into donating a high portion of his salary to the temple. Naturally I will ask: how come these sannyasis who are brainwashing young boys and girls into hating sex, so attached to globe-trotting, staying in 5 star hotels and getting cozy with rich NRI devotees.Naturally, their glaring faults become magnified.

 

That is why I repeatedly ask: Why is that no previous acarya ever proscribed sex in marriage? How come none objected to the depictions of erotic art in temples? How come none objected to the erotic descriptions of the sexual arousal of Rama and Sita in Kamba Ramayanam? Is it because, none of them considered sex within marriage as normal? Something not to be repressed.

 

Originally posted by Abhi the great:Complete celibacy is a nice ideal, but not for the masses.

True again. One in a million can transcend the attraction of sex. Such a person would have no attraction for 5 star hotels and politicking either. As Krishna says in BG, he would see all as equal. He won't be afraid of criticizing a rich devotee just because he helps get funds for your project. Above all, he won't be obsessed with criticizing women in tight pair of jeans

 

Most people cannot overcome their desire for sex.That is why we have grahastha asrama.The very fact that sex is within marriage means it is regulated. There is no need to further put the brakes on.To ask someone who is yet to lose his attachment for wealth, to give up sex is terrible. Doesn't SB say that Kamini and Pratishta asha are the toughest to overcome?

 

Originally posted by Abhi the great:I do not know how it feels when one spends nearly 30yrs in grihasta-asrama. I am just 3 yrs into my married life. I wd like the senior grihastas to comment if a feeling of renunciation creeps in, or one gets bored of ones partner, or spiritual cravings take the priority. What really happens?

I have been married for 7 years. Nope renunciation doesn't creep in I guess it takes a few life times. I am not in a hurry to let that happen

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

Srila Prabhupada did not make a rule that was impossible to follow. He did not insist that one renounce the world and live as a sannyasi. He simply said to dovetail you material desires with Krishna's service, engage in sex only for the purpose of procreation. Is that really such a huge sacrifice? Has our sadhana done nothing at all to purify our hearts?

Yes, sadhana done in a natural way purifies our hearts. Sadhana done artificially through brainwashing corrupts us. Is it not true that the most fallen ones in ISKCON have also been SP's disciples? One thing is that we can explain away all this saying it is prarabda karma. Another explanation could be that they were not really qualified to become sannyasis/brahmacaris, but that state was thrust upon them. This is where I feel that the method followed by traditional schools like Kanchi Sankara mutt or Srirangam mutt is natural. They have just one or 2 sannyasis. Even they are handpicked from very pious families. If we accept karma, then our birth to a parent is due to our karma. Naturally, a person who is born of parents that are materially attached is less likely to become a renunciate than one born into a family that is spiritual.

 

Picking up such a person and thrusting sannyasa doesn't work. Likewise, if you are attracted to sex, it is because of your natural state that results due to your karma. Renunciation through brain washing doesn't work.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Is it not true that the most fallen ones in ISKCON have also been SP's disciples?

The moment we see ourselves as the most fallen (and not others around us), that is when sex desire will begin to diminish automatically. It is actually the most difficult process of sadhana (humility), but it is the fundamental point of sharanagati. We will point our fingers at those who have fallen from renunciation, while we ourselves have never even attempted renunciation. There is a saying, the snake cannot fall, for it cannot fly. It is quite appropriate in this matter. As long as the criticizing nature remains in our heart (which is a great anartha), it will be impossible to regulate our material desires. On the contrary, they will increase despite the sadhana we are performing.

 

Picking up such a person and thrusting sannyasa doesn't work.

Again you are confusing regulated human life within the grihastha ashram with sannyasa. It is not renunciation, but regulation. If someone is smoking cigarettes, and dying of cancer. We can tell them to continue smoking, which they will gladly do. We could also tell them to give it up altogether, which they cannot do. What we should do is help them to regulate it gradually with the conception of eventual renunciation.

 

Likewise, if you are attracted to sex, it is because of your natural state that results due to your karma.

Actually, if we are attracted to material enjoyment it is because of our unnatural state of entanglement within material existence. Our natural state is one of freedom.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Please keep the copy and paste to a minimum. These forums are primarily for discussion, not posting 101 websites.

 

[Note: Copied articles deleted to keep the thread readable. If you want to post articles, put them in World Review, which is also not the right place, but better than here.]

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-08-2002).]

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by abhi_the_great:

No, I am not promoting illicit sex, but saying that better have as much sex inside the institution of marriage than having sex outside marriage. If you can have sex only for procreation, its the best. But, in whatever condition you are, continue your sadhana and pray to Krishna sincerely.

 

I do not know how it feels when one spends nearly 30yrs in grihasta-asrama. I am just 3 yrs into my married life. I wd like the senior grihastas to comment if a feeling of renunciation creeps in, or one gets bored of ones partner, or spiritual cravings take the priority. What really happens?

What really happens depends on us. I've been married over 29 years (to the same woman). I have not become bored with my wife, nor she with me. However, we encourage each other to deepen our attachment to serving Krishna and His devotees. Over the years, the drive to enjoy different kinds of pleasure wanes to the extent that our attachment to Krishna's service increases. It's natural, if we practice sincerely. That includes the humility in our service that jndas mentioned earlier.

 

We need to keep in mind that the goal is not celibacy; the goal is love for Krishna. The disciplines we accept are done so voluntarily. No one ever told me I could not eat meat (I was vegetarian before I joined Srila Prabhupada's mission). No one told me I couldn't smoke or have sex. Rather, I set my priorities such that Krishna consciousness was at the top of the list. I understood that not regulating sense pleasure impedes developing Krishna consciousness, so I accepted the discipline of trying to regulate my life. When I asked for initiation, I voluntarily agreed to accept the rules of a disciple and chant a fixed number of rounds each day.

 

Those who preach Krishna consciousness aren't emissaries of celiabcy or vegetarianism. They are emissaries of the holy name of Krishna, which exclusively awards the highest benedictions.

[Rati]

What many Indians might not fully appreciate is the type of Victorian morals that espouse sexual repression and the evil connotations given sexual expression, which the Western world continues to be shackled with to this day. It is far easier for a Hollywood studio to get scenes of graphic violence past the censors than those of an erotic nature, even in those films that are not of the pornographic genre, but rather quite in the mainstream. In that context, it is much a more a cultural malaise than one related to celibacy as a spiritual discipline. It also is not quite the same thing as the concept of desires that bind us to the world of cause and effect. The situation is more extreme in America than in Europe. Part of the problem is that attitude tends to spill over into siddhAnta and thus twisting it to an extreme view, which is not in keeping with any school of vedAnta. We have to remember that attraction and aversion are two sides of the same coin. From what I have understood, one who is advanced enough to be beyond material sexual desire has neither attraction nor revulsion towards the opposite sex, just complete indifference.

 

I just thought I would bring up this point, since I did not see it addressed anywhere in these discussions, yet it does come into play in the overall dynamics of the situation.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-08-2002).]

[karthik_v]

Rati Prabhuji, nice points.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

The moment we see ourselves as the most fallen (and not others around us), that is when sex desire will begin to diminish automatically.

I am certainly not advanced spiritually, but then why should I see myself to be more fallen than the ones who are just exploiting? Is that not mere sentimentalism or even worse did not this mentality lead to all perversions that happened in ISKCON? Instead of glorifying those criminals as Maharaj, had those kids just treated them the way they deserved to be, don't you think that ISKCON wouldn't have got dragged to the courts? Thinking logically, why should I foolishly rever a person and consider myself worse, when in reality I can see that he is more materialistic than I am? Just because of the robes he wears? I am really not convinced that such false veneration will diminish sexual desires.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

We will point our fingers at those who have fallen from renunciation, while we ourselves have never even attempted renunciation.

I am again not convinced that sannyasa is something that one can attempt. He should be advanced enough so that it happens naturally. Can anyone become a sannyasi at Kanchi Sankara mutt or Srirangam Jeeyar mutt? I am not pointing fingers here. I was looking at some fundamental problems and discussing them.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

As long as the criticizing nature remains in our heart (which is a great anartha), it will be impossible to regulate our material desires.

Don't our scriptures teach us to be critical? Did not Madhvacarya criticize Advaita? I am not equating myself with those. Yet, the point is why should I not criticize someone who is wrong? I think the word Vaisnava aparadh was effectively misused by those gurus who molested children in ISKCON. I would rather commit some aparadh and speak the truth.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

Again you are confusing regulated human life within the grihastha ashram with sannyasa. It is not renunciation, but regulation. If someone is smoking cigarettes, and dying of cancer. We can tell them to continue smoking, which they will gladly do. We could also tell them to give it up altogether, which they cannot do. What we should do is help them to regulate it gradually with the conception of eventual renunciation.

This requires that we first establish that sex within marriage, like smoking, is evil. That is why I repeatedly ask as to why previous non-GV acaryas never criticized that. Also, why do we have erotic art in the temples? Why do we have such erotic portrayal of Rama and Sita, who served as examples for common men? Is it because sex within marriage was never considered evil? I will be convinced even if someone can quote references from scriptures (accepted by all major schools like advaita, vishistadvaita, dvaita) that proscribes sex for pleasure in marriage. In the absence of such an evidence, such proscription is on very shaky foundation.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

Actually, if we are attracted to material enjoyment it is because of our unnatural state of entanglement within material existence. Our natural state is one of freedom.

Profound. I agree. I am not defending attachment nor idealizing it. I am only against artificial renunciation. Please understand.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I am certainly not advanced spiritually, but then why should I see myself to be more fallen than the ones who are just exploiting?

It's not a matter of thinking ourselves as fallen, but realizing we are factually fallen (atma-nikshepa karpanye). As long as we continue thinking that we need to imagine that we are fallen, we just won't get it. It's not an excercise of the mind, it is simply opening our eyes to the reality of our existences.

 

...did not this mentality lead to all perversions that happened in ISKCON?

Because of not having this mentality, all problems came.

 

Instead of glorifying those criminals as Maharaj, had those kids just treated them the way they deserved to be, don't you think that ISKCON wouldn't have got dragged to the courts?

Courts and other such things are really quite irrelevant. Our need is a personal one. We must be very selfish in our spiritual pursuits to ensure our success in advancement. Once having attained success, we can become daya-sagara. As for criminals, they should be dealt with by the law.

 

Thinking logically, why should I foolishly rever a person and consider myself worse, when in reality I can see that he is more materialistic than I am?

It is not necessary to revere other sadhakas, but simply to understand factually our own fallen position. The reality we are seeing actually is not the reality. But the coverings are so thick, that we accept them as truth without question. Thus it appears very simple to judge others.

 

I am again not convinced that sannyasa is something that one can attempt.

Sannyasa is simply an order of life. The discipline that is attempted is tyaga. Tyaga may be attempted in any ashrama, but are we willing to attempt it? They have declared war against maya, and they have lost. They have died on the battlefield. For that they will attain the heavens. There is no infamy, for they have fallen after flying. We on the other hand are remaining on the ground, slithering like snakes, scoffing at them, "Ha, see they couldn't fly, could they?"

 

Yet, the point is why should I not criticize someone who is wrong?

Because it is not your duty. Nor will it change the prarabdha karmas that are functioning.

 

I think the word Vaisnava aparadh was effectively misused by those gurus who molested children in ISKCON.

Those who see ISKCON as a few fallen sannyasis, instead of as the millions of sincere devotees naturally have a defect in their vision. We should spend more time associating with sadhus rather than reading the newspapers for our information.

 

This requires that we first establish that sex within marriage, like smoking, is evil.

Those who follow Vedanta philosophy understand that material enjoyment is evil, and that is Krishna's direct statement in the Gita. Bhoga and aisvarya are two blocks on the path of self-realization that lead one to further bondage. Lust, anger and greed are three paths that lead to hell. Those who are interested in actually attaining Krishna should set their goals in life based on this knowledge and regulate their life accordingly.

 

That is why I repeatedly ask as to why previous non-GV acaryas never criticized that.

Some truths are so fundamentally obvious that they require no sermons. The vaishnava acharya's of every path have explained the fundamental principle of material existence and bondage (i.e. material attachment and enjoyment). Do you think that simply by being married, your sex desire has now become spiritual? It creates the exact same karma-vasana regardless of marriage. The purpose of marriage is to regulate our activities. The fact that regulation is involved is an admission that it is not beneficial for us.

 

On the otherhand which Vaishnava acharya has quoted from Kama-sutra? Which vaishnava acharya has instructed to engage in unrestricted sex?

 

Why do we have such erotic portrayal of Rama and Sita, who served as examples for common men?

Kamba Ramayana is not accepted by Vaishnavas as authentic. Thus I will not try to justify its statements.

 

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by J N Das:

Those who see ISKCON as a few fallen sannyasis, instead of as the millions of sincere devotees naturally have a defect in their vision. We should spend more time associating with sadhus rather than reading the newspapers for our information.

A very valid point. I must admit that the same ISKCON also produced wonderful devotess by scores, despite the fact that many of them were former hippies. I stand corrected.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

On the otherhand which Vaishnava acharya has quoted from Kama-sutra? Which vaishnava acharya has instructed to engage in unrestricted sex?

None. But none has also condemned depictions of erotic sculptures in virtually all ancient temples. Would they have not condemned that if they had thought that sex for pleasure within marriage was evil? So, my understanding is that sex within marriage marriage in itself is restricted. There is no need to restrict it further.

 

Originally posted by J N Das:

Kamba Ramayana is not accepted by Vaishnavas as authentic. Thus I will not try to justify its statements.

I think that I may disagree quite strongly. It is fully accepted by Sri Vaisnavas. There is a statue of Kamba in Sri Rangam temple. Kamba Ramayana is recited in many Sri Vaishnava temples. Great Sri Vaishnava acaryas like Vedanta Desikar have quoted from it. In fact, there is an established tradition for reading Kamba Ramayana among Sri Vaishnavas. They start with Sundara Kanda then go to the Bala Kanda and read sequentially. As a result, they read Sundara Kanda twice. There is also a legend that Lord Rama himself authorized the version of Kamba. There is another legend which narrates the reaction of the scholars at Sri Rangam when Kamba included the annihilation of Hiranya Kasipu in his version, as it was not in Valmiki's. Kambar didn't know what to do. So, he stood in front of Sri Ranganatha and wept. The Lord (deity) Himself raised His hands in approval. That is how the Brahmins accepted the writings of Kambar who was born in a low caste. It is no less bona fide than Valmiki's. And it has very erotic descriptions. Since Rama and Sita served as role models for all of us, does this not prove that sex within marriage need not be restricted?

[Guest guest]

dharma avirddho kamo 'smi. Lord Krishna says that he is sex life that is not contrary to religious principles. Srila Prabhupada purports that this is sex life for creating Krishna Conscious children which is almost sannyasa.

 

Is there any sastra which explains what this dharma avirddho kamo 'smi is in a way that is different from what Srila Prabhupada does ?

 

My point is if what Srila Prabhupada taught is in line with the sastras, then how can we argue that ?

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-09-2002).]

[abhi_the_great]

Actually, there is no one way as far as the application of a rule to people of different natures are concerned. It is a very personal thing.

 

As sadhakas in ISKCON, we all have achieved spiritual success to one level or another. We all have tried to analyse ourselves - our strengths and our weaknesses. What is truly our ability, we know from within. We all know that sex-life for not procreation is sinful. We also know that sex life has been engaged in(from time immemorial) not only for procreation, but also for its sheer pleasure.

 

Can we tell someone to engage in sex, but not enjoy the pleasure??? Is man a programmed machine or a sensual being? To enjoy sex is natural, from this point of view. In olden days, people used to enjoy sex and also procreate children simultaneously - so there was no sins. Now, we are using contraceptives to just enjoy sex, without the burden of having children. This is certainly sinful - and karma will act.

 

Another point of consideration is, even if we do not have sex, still semen is lost in sleep. I tried pakka celibacy for a year and a half before my marriage, imagining, "Now I'll get ojas, now I'll get tejas". Nothing happened. Nothing was flowing upwards, everything went down the drain in sleeps . I felt all this ojas - tejas is just some story. I met one guy on the net in some other site, who said he is able to lift up the semina by yogic practice. Is there anyone here- OJAS-TEJAS type?

 

My feeling is, it is good if one is able to control the sexual urge. But, if one cannot, then get married and have sex in marriage. Don't cheat oneself into thinking that I can one day become sannyasi and guru, only problem is I have this uncontrolled lust. Just be practical in spiritual life.

 

If one can have full control over lust, then why at all marry. Why at all we need grihasta-asram? There are some unwritten truths, we can see thru it if we are simbly humble. We do not need to fight for the ground realities, we shd approach spiritual life understanding our own limitations and strengths. Fanatic controlling or fanatic indulgence, both won't help. Its very personal. As i said, there is no "one solution". The application is different, as the people are different.

 

Why did Kshatriyas marry many women in the past? Even Arjuna, had 3 wives. He was totally captivated by the beauty of Subadhraji.

 

Don't misread my intentions. No, I mean better have sex inside marriage, if you cannot control, than have sex with many people outside married life. There is a variance limit within marriage, which is implied, though not explicitly stated.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Kamba Ramayana topic shifted to a new thread.

[Prahlad]

Pranaam!

I have to agree that sexual indulgence is enjoyment of the senses. It is the strengthening of kama vasana - the innate desires for sex.

For all these past lives we have enjoyed the senses as donkeys, dogs and other beasts. This life, we use the opportunity of having the manushya- human body for the devotion to God.

Because kama vasna (sexual desire), is the strongest of all, we have been permitted to enter marriage and lead a disciplined sexual life and not be slave to the senses. Obviously there will be occassions when we are not in control of ourselves - but through intense devotion AND regulation of our sexual instincts, the kama vasna will be destroyed.

I mean think about it. Essentially it is a physical process which ultimately has a profound effect on our spiritual progress by strengthening of the kama vasna.

No shastras preach indulgence OR suppression of sexual instincts for that matter.

What they do teach is sublimation - we cannot possibly expect to overcome sexual desires without devotion, japa, dhyan and the grace of God....but as long as we are attached to enjoying the senses, we cannot fully experience the bliss of devotion to God. Therefore, what Abhi was practicing was suppression NOT sublimation - semen has to be sublimated by intense bhakti.

Please, let us not try to deny the fact that sexual life must be regulated in grihastha ashram. There are times of the month and days (such as ekadashi) when we must adopt strict control.

Do you not agree that sexual desire is the stringest of impressions/vasna (together with desire for wealth, taste and power)?

If so, should we not be making every effort to sublimate it rather than let it attach us (as atman) to the body?

-P

[Guest guest]

there is a group on this topic at :

brahmacharya1@

[Guest guest]

very good post abhi!

 

sex is brahma's automation for creation.

his son kashyap created daityas from diti,

and aadityas from aditi.

 

his son shiva crated ghosts and goblins.

 

his sons sanat kumaras and narad totally refused to create.

they never lost a drop of semen.

nor a tinge of sex desire entered in their minds.

 

vaishnavas follow narad.

so it is up hill battle to control sex.

more one can control the better, spiritually.

 

vedic society was helping to control sex.

western society encourages and aggravaes sex every moment.

 

sex is addictive. more you engage in more you would want to engage in till your body become really weak to engage.

 

so, it is good habit to control

and not worry if you loose some control.

 

selection of foods helps alos.

 

it is possible, as krishna has said by

abhyaasena tu vairagyena.

 

jai sri prabhupada!

 

[Guest guest]

http://www.thedivinelifesociety.org/download/brahmacharya.htm

[Subala]

Attachment to the sex is the biggest obstacle in spiritual life and is solved only by association.

 

You can read about how bad sex is, you can hear how bad it is, you can even experince it yourself, and then tell other people how bad it is - Still I'm so attached towards sex life (paraphrase from vaishnava song) sunia, dekhia - bhishikayanu, still drinkign poison.

 

Association so vital,

 

- you want to be materially wealthy - assocate with materially wealthy people

- you want to be drunkard - associate with drunkards

- you want to be poor - get a job

- you want to be devotee associate with devotees

- you want to be free from lust - associate with people who are or movign towards this goal.

 

association is a key in all endevours PERIOD

[Subala]

previous post with a brahmacarya link....

 

good but poisonious - mayavada comments on gita etc...

 

may be it is jsut me but whenver i read some of the mayavada literature/comments it is starts with a big washi-washy wanning speaches about love for all - world peace - we all one etc...

 

how ironic.

 

[naanu]

I am a new user to website. I read what you have written

.It touches my hearth.Thanking you to sharing that precious thing with us.

 

from

sweet sweet naanu