Light at the end of the tunnel/Lord Krsna

[bhaktajoy]

By M.A. Shrivastava

 

Reported round the world, near-death experiences lift the veil off death and show us glimpses of a domain of love, compassion and beauty. NDEs not only obliterate the dread of death but also charge life with fresh meaning and purpose

 

What happens after we die? Is there life after death or do we sink into nothingness? Are we punished for our sins and rewarded for our good deeds? Do heaven and hell exist? What about reincarnation? For man, death has always been an impenetrable mystery.

Never before has there been such a large-scale denial of death as today. The cult of youth, good looks and health is a manifestation of man's tendency to run away from the perceived unpleasantness of death. For medical science, death is the ultimate enemy, to be defeated at all costs, even if it means keeping a person alive through artificial means.

 

Ironically, this determination to fight death has opened the door to an exploration of it. In recent times, there has been a deluge of accounts of people who have returned from the jaws of death. Called near-death experiences (NDE), a term coined by writer Dr Raymond Moody Jr. in his book Life after Life, these descriptions and experiences have ripped the veil off the face of death. And what is revealed is neither frightening nor nihilistic. On the contrary, the landscape is radiant with love, beauty, compassion and joy. Death seems to open the doors to ongoing life where we encounter loving spiritual guides, see our akashic records, enjoy celestial music, and understand the purpose of our earthly mission. This not just obliterates the dread of death but charges life with fresh meaning and purpose.

 

NDE survivors report leaving the body with a plop, and suddenly find themselves surveying their supine bodies from above. They find they can go anywhere simply by intention. They enter by themselves, or are guided by spiritual figures to a long, dark tunnel emanating love and warmth. For some, the experience is frightening, but for most it appears to be overwhelmingly positive. At the end of the tunnel, they see a bright vibrating light radiating powerful rays of love. God?

In P.M.H. Atwater's book Beyond the Light, an NDE survivor says: "I felt whole and loved. My sense of well being was complete. I heard celestial music clearly and saw vividly colored flowers, like nothing seen on earth, gorgeous greenery and trees.

 

As I looked around, I saw on a hill, Jesus Christ. All he said to me was that it was up to me whether to come back to earth or not. I chose to come back to finish my work."

 

Another survivor is quoted: "A bright, new, beautiful world-beautiful beyond imagination! For half a minute I could see both worlds at once. Finally, when earth was all gone, I stood in a glory that could only be heaven."

 

Back in India, Suresh Kothari, 73, a Mumbai-based businessman had a premonition in 1972 that something unusual would happen. Next day, he was admitted to a hospital with a liver abscess. As the pus was being drawn from his liver, Kothari felt a severe pain moving towards his head. He became numb and felt something trying to come out from his body. His eyes began to pop. He could feel some kind of energy rotating in his forehead. And then he was out of his body.

 

"I entered an area of silent storm where light was oscillating at great speed. The entire view was multidimensional. I experienced divine love," he says. When he came to, he found doctors pressing his femoral artery to revive his cardiac arrest.

 

Merra, a 42-year-old resident of Washington, USA, who has had three major NDEs and a few minor ones, recalls having seen a being of frosted white light pulsating near her during her second NDE in 1988. "I could see another bright light on my right but wasn't allowed to go near it. It looked like a male figure and was sending a lot of light towards me," she recalls.

While Kothari and Merra witnessed light, 71-year-old Navinbhai Mehta of Mumbai smelt a beautiful fragrance synchronized with soothing music. A practitioner of acupressure and acupuncture, Mehta is strongly intuitive. One morning in June 1995, he sensed that he was going to die. His family members rushed him to a cardiologist where Mehta collapsed and was declared dead. Ten minutes later, he opened his eyes, much to everybody's surprise.

 

About the period when he died, Mehta says: "I was traveling through a tunnel and could see a bright light at the end. As I neared the light, I heard indescribably beautiful music."

 

Most NDE survivors recall feeling intense love when they went near the light at the end of the tunnel and wouldn't have returned but for unfinished business. "I felt as if I had reached the pinnacle of love. All my mental and physical fatigue was gone," says Kothari. His first reaction on returning to consciousness was: "Why did you bring me back? I don't want to come back."

 

Merra was also unwilling to return but the being of light told her that she had unfinished tasks on earth. Merra also felt the presence of her parents who had died in a plane crash in 1978 and her sister who was murdered when Merra was 21 but could not see them.

 

However, not all undergo pleasant NDEs. Describing the NDE of a Californian woman, Atwater says: "She floated out of her body into a dark tunnel, then headed towards a bright light ahead. Once the light was reached, she saw a landscape of barren, rolling hills filled to overflowing with nude, zombie-like people staring straight at her. She was so horrified that she started screaming. This snapped her back into her body, where she continued screaming until sedated. As she related her story, she declared death a nightmare and cursed every church throughout history for misleading people with heaven. She was inconsolable."

 

Nevertheless, NDEs can also heal. Merra had had an incurable brain tumor since childhood. During her second NDE, she was taken into a room in the mountains where she saw her body lying on a stone-bed and three bearded men praying over it. Merra was told that they would perform a psychic surgery on her tumor. "They were massaging my body with oils, poured purified water on my head and lighted incense. Then I saw some dark energy emanating from my body," she reminisces. When she came to, her tumor was gone.

 

NDE experiencers also lose a sense of timing while on the other side. "Though the whole process lasted for about 60 to 90 seconds, I felt as if I had spent thousands of years there and traveled thousands of miles," says Kothari.

In Kothari's case, the effect of the NDE unfolded only later. After being discharged from the hospital, he could not recognize anyone for six months. He remembered the past vaguely. Then began the onslaught of deities. Kothari claims to have seen various deities sitting face to face with him in his house: "I used to see huge forms of Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira. One day, to my surprise, I saw millions of Lord Krishnas on my body, almost in each cell. If I looked down on the floor I could see 100 miles under the ground."

 

Kothari asked the deities to explain the purpose of what was happening to him. Then began the flow of advice from them in the form of verses where he was supposedly given the secret of creation. Till date, 41,000 verses have been dictated to him.

 

Most NDE survivors report a dramatic change in their personality. Normally, it takes a spiritual bend. Having seen the reality, they return as better and reformed human beings.

 

"You return from your NDE knowing that we affect each other because we are all part of each other, and that we affect all parts of creation because all parts of creation interweave with all other parts. Any sense of aloneness or separation dissolves in the light of such knowing," says Atwater.

 

Betty Eadie, author of Embraced by the Light, an account of her NDE while undergoing surgery, was shown the consequences of her actions in the akashic records. Her positive actions rippled through the lives of many people, creating joy and happiness, while her negative ones spread a stain of misery across the spectrum. What we do impacts the universe, she concluded.

 

The experiencers return charged with a divine mission. "We think that God is outside us but we can experience God even in ourselves if we wish," says Merra. And this is what she teaches in her meditation classes, which started after her NDEs.

 

Similarly for Kothari, post-NDE, death lost its terror and a spiritual quest started. Though still a globetrotting businessman, he gives religious discourses every evening and conducts spiritual awakening programs. Based on the knowledge passed on to him by the deities, Kothari has written Samkaleen Geeta, that was given to him by the cosmic voice when he asked for a simple path to salvation in the modern age. His other books include Krishna Leela, Agna Gnan, Prana Veda, and Bhakta Bhagwat. When taken over by the cosmic voice, Kothari speaks in various Indian languages like Marathi, Gujarati, Urdu, Sanskrit, some of which he doesn't otherwise know. Is death painful? "No," says Kothari, "It is absolutely painless. God is the best surgeon and anesthesiologist who takes out life without pain."

One may add here that all experiences are subjective. During NDEs, Christians see Christ, Hindus see deities from the Hindu pantheon, and so on. Even their experiences are self-generated. Some see paradise, others a nightmare. Obviously, we create our own heaven and hell.

 

Atwater says: "The biggest surprise for most people in dying is to realize that dying does not end life. Whether darkness or light comes next, the biggest surprise of all is to realize you are still you. You can still think, remember, see, hear, move, reason, wonder, feel, question and tell jokes, if you wish."

 

Many in the medical community consider NDE to be a manifestation of the subconscious mind or the effect of anesthesia. Says DR Ramesh Dang, head of the Balkrishna Hypnotherapy Centre, Mumbai: "NDE is nothing but a projection of the subconscious mind, particularly common among people with a religious attitude." Dang's viewpoint does not explain Merra who was an atheist before her NDEs. She had never read any books on religion or meditation. "This is why seeing Lord Krishna during an NDE was such a surprise," she says.

 

DR Shubhangi Parkar, head of the department of psychological medicine at Seth GS Medical College and KEM Hospital, two of whose patients have undergone NDEs, says: "Whether one believes in NDEs or not, one should respect the feelings of the experiencers or else it could have a damaging effect on their minds." Both her patients benefited positively from the NDEs and were able to resolve their psychological problems.

 

That perhaps is the bottom line. The medical community may baulk at the idea, but if NDEs enlighten us about the purpose of life, rid us of the fear of death and charge us with a sense of mission, we ought to embrace them with open arms!

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Near death experiences are interesting. From what I've read it is an almost universal experience that crosses over cultural boundaries. Have you ever known someone to have such an experience? I knew a lady once who claimed to have a near death experience when she was very ill once. Its been many years, but she explained that she floated above her body towards a bright light. However, her subtle body seemed to have like an umbilical cord attachment to her physical body. As such she could not keep moving. Not sure what that means, but I remember that little detail.

[theist]

Occults refer to that as the silver cord.They say it attachs the astral body to the physical.

 

Although not all people who report OBE's even see it.Actually most don't.

 

Sooo many mysterious things.

[bhaktajoy]

Yes it is universal and your beliefs shape the kind of feedback you get from God.One thing is fascinating for sure,the nde's reflect Vedic philosphy 100%!Karma,Life is everywhere,Reincarnation,Ghosts,etc etc.

 

I know few people by email contact only.

 

Here is a nde of an Indian man.

http://nderf.org/India%20Physician's.htm

 

"Greetings! And thanks for the genuine appreciation. I am a Senior Homoeopathic - Physician having more than three decades of practice. Below my original message, I am now sending my personal NDE details for publication. You can also put my e-mail address on that. Let like-minded persons can come together & discuss this important matter which has wholly engaged the collective Indian Mind for thousands of years. With warm Greetings.

 

We in India with our hoary philosophical traditions of more than seven thousand years and experiences of thousands of saints & sages believe in the Holistic philosophy of Life.

 

No experiments conducted on "Average experience criteria" or objective studies of the brain can explain the function of consciousness. Each man's experience will be different like the fact that no two thumb impressions match.

 

NDE of an evolved soul will be Transcendal. It is like a Quantum Jump. While as experiences of many ordinary people may be ascribed to stresses or emotional factors. In the matter of consciousness, we are entering a Quantum field wherein Modern science has no guidelines.

 

I was also skeptical about Transcendal experiences until I had one NDE experience in 1969.After suffering an attack of acute Dysentery & loss of blood I was nearing the end.

 

Suddenly I left the body & from the ceiling could look down on my body. In that state I could instantly be aware of anything I thought about. I thought of my mother.

 

I could see her running helter skelter on a platform to catch a train.

 

Later when I luckily recovered I corroborated that in fact ,at that precise moment she was running on a platform hundreds of Kilometers away to catch a train to come to my place, on receipt of a telegram about my critical condition.

 

Any NDE which can be found true ,to objective reality is astonishing! How can mind travel through Space and Time? Mind is transcendal Reality. A quantum entity. Science has not still reached a stage of understanding it.

 

As Shakespeare put it "There are Truths undreamt of under the sky!"

 

Details.

 

The incident actually occurred in September 1969.However as NDE is a profound experience it is deeply etched in my memory. I can recollect even minute details of it instantaneously though ,more than three decades have passed.

 

At that time I was thirty seven, a robust young man. And was an Agnostic I was skeptical of religion or any thing that could not be called strictly scientific.

 

My family had just moved into a small town called Eluru in Andhrapradesh, India. Because of the unhygienic conditions there I had a serious bout of Dysentery. Avoiding self-treatment, I put myself under the care of my friend in General Hospital.

 

In spite of a vigorous course of Anti-Biotics the dysentery did not subside. I lost a heavy amount of blood. Added to that a serious fever developed. After a few days my condition deteriorated very rapidly. Pulse became very weak & barely palpable.

 

On the third day of the full moon at midnight, the physician was summoned ,as my condition rapidly deteriorated & I was collapsing. While he was checking my heart-beats suddenly I left the body. From the ceiling I was looking at my own body!

 

The visibility was very poor as if a thick cloud of smoke separated me from the rest of the surroundings. The severe pain that I was experiencing just before leaving the body had vanished. I was calm & composed.

 

Suddenly I realized I was dead! My God! I have brought my young kids & and family and have left them in a strange place without any protection financially or otherwise! Visibility was not clear. Everything was misty. But it was as though I could see without vision, hear without sound. I was in another Dimension of Existence. I could hear the laments of women below & the hushed conversation. One thought became prominent in me. How absurd Life is! In the morning the body would be cremated. Is this all to life. What a meaningless end to a chain of boundless wonders & potential opportunities. It is like bubble floating on a sea.

 

Then what is death? An entrance to another dimension? I was calmly & objectively thinking while my brain & body were lying below! & as though I was not the person affected by death. Evolution endows matter with higher & higher levels of consciousness & death seems to snatch it.

 

While brooding I became aware of a presence. In a speechless communication IT informed me that I could re-enter the body if I so desired. But no time should be lost. However at that critical moment I pleaded for an answer to the riddle of Life as that thought had fully engrossed me! There was a beautiful vision of stars roaring past me. At the centre of all that tumult was a glowing light. Each star appeared to be a minute centre of consciousness. It was merging into & emerging from the central consciousness as desired by that cosmic WILL which shone like a very huge sun!

 

The vision vanished & I noticed that the doctor was looking down at me with amazement. I smiled feebly and told him I was O.K.

 

In that out- of -body state I could fulfill all my desires as if I were Omnipotent, Omniscient! I thought of my mother & I could see her running hectically on a platform at a Railway station hundreds of mile away! When I entered the body, the virulent infection had vanished & I could recoup in a couple of days. My mother later confirmed that indeed she was frantically running around Vijayavada railway station enquiring about a train to Eluru after receiving the telegram about my critical condition. NDE is cannot be explained in normal objective terms. I underwent a positive personality change. All my arrogance vanished."

 

Actually I lost email contact with this man and now I don't know if he is still alive.

 

Last time he wrote me:

Fri, 1 Dec 2000 06:54:31 +0530

 

"My Dear Mukherji,

I am very happy to have a friend in USA. I visited Mathura,Krishna's birth place.Of course due to poverty, over population & neglect the present state of the city is pitiable.However I felt the spiritual vibes of Lord Sri.Krishna. Actually in one bylane I felt as if baby Krishna was running in front of me.At Brindvan I felt joy. He was dancing with Gopikas. I felt enthralled.At Kalikamardhan ghat He was dancing on that huge serpent.Holiness took over me. My joy was unbounded.Please do keep in touch.

Shivaraman.M.S."

 

That silver cord thing is often mentioned in Yoga books.The Solar Plexus Chakra is energy center in our body.Christians deny these ndes because they contradict all the dogma.

 

Another Interesting Nde of an American man:

Copyright 1994 by P. M. H. Atwater

BEYOND THE LIGHT, originally in hardcover, Birch Lane Press,

http://www.iands.org/pmh17.html

 

In 1979, Berkley Carter Mills made history in the Commonwealth of Virginia and the city of Lynchburg by becoming the youngest father ever to win custody of a small child in divorce proceedings. Six months later a massive load of compressed cardboard he was loading slipped out of control, slamming him against a steel pole. He remembers a sharp pain, collapsing, being in a black void, then finding himself floating in a prone position twelve feet above his crumpled body. He saw and heard people running around, yelling for an ambulance and saying, "Don't touch him, give him air." His body went from white to blue; there was no breath. The sight filled him with awe. "I'm here, my body is there. How did this happen?" (Refer to pages 72-75, paperback version, "BEYOND THE LIGHT.")

Not understanding how he could suddenly be airborne, Carter Mills attempted to reenter his body. Crawling downward in swimlike strokes he had almost reached his goal when a gentle but firm hand tugged his right arm. When he looked up, there were two angels replete with robes, wings, bare feet, and streaming hair - no color but opaque white - and no particular gender. "What's going on?" he asked. "We've come to take you to God," they answered. After some confusion on Carter Mills's part the trio left the scene at tremendous speed, leaving the earth behind as if it were a star the size of a pinhead. Their destination was an intensely bright light. Carter Mills questioned, "How come I'm not cold and how come I'm not suffocating this far out in space?" An angel replied, "This is your spiritual body, and these things do not affect it." They took him to a suspended platform, and in the center was a being so powerful Carter Mills thought it was God. The angels bowed and took their places with two others, each with wings outstretched and hands folded in prayer, at the platform's four corners. Male in mannerisms and voice, the clean-shaven being turned out to be Jesus.

 

Carter Mills could not look Jesus in the face as he perceived himself as naked and unfit for such an audience. After some coaxing from Jesus, he felt more at ease. "I'm going to judge you," Jesus said. Instantly Carter Mills's whole life began to play out, starting at birth. He relived being a tiny spark of light traveling to earth as soon as egg and sperm met and entering his mother's womb. In mere seconds he had to choose hair color and eyes out of the genetic material available to him and any genes that might give him the body he would need. He bypassed the gene for clubfootedness, then watched from a soul's perspective as cells subdivided. He could hear his parents whenever they spoke and feel their emotions, but any knowledge of his past lives dissolved. Birth was a shock: awful lights, giant people, eyes peering over face masks. His only comfort was his mother.

 

He relived each incident in his life, including killing a mother bird when he was eight. He was so proud of that single shot until he felt the pain the bird's three babies went through when they starved to death without her. "It's not true that only humans have souls," Carter Mills cautions today. "Insects, animals, plants have souls, too. Yes, I still eat meat, for in this plane species eat each other to survive, but I bless my food and say thanks for the gift life gives. If I don't the food sours in my stomach."

 

He was shown that hell is a black blankness without God. Upset, he yelled back, "How can you sit up here on this throne and allow such misery to happen on Earth?" Gently he was told, "It's your own fault. I gave you the tools to live by. I gave you free will and free choice. And I allow you to be part of my creation. It is your free will and your free choice that is responsible for starvation, war, and hate." Carter Mills felt pangs of guilt when he realized we coexist with God, no one is God's servant or slave.

 

Jesus, the angels and platform, disintegrated into a giant sphere of light once Carter Mills no longer needed their shape or form to put him at ease. As the sphere grew it absorbed him, infused him with the ecstasy of unconditional love. "Sexual orgasms can't compare. You are so high. Magnify that to infinity!" He zoomed back to his mangled remains as a ball of all knowing light and crashed into his solar plexus with such force it jolted his body to action. He had been told before leaving The Other Side, "No hospital, no blood, no operation, God will show you how to heal yourself." Thus, when Carter Mills stood, he promptly walked to his car and drove home, on the way passing the ambulance that had been sent to rescue him. Those present verified that he had been dead for twenty minutes. The next morning Carter Mills awoke in a pool of blood.

 

The doctor he went to for aid committed him to a psychiatric ward as insane when he refused surgery. Since three independent psychiatrists had to confirm the verdict, and one objected, Carter Mills was released. Although his injuries were extensive and severe, he recovered by himself and returned to work. His former wife took advantage of his plight and challenged the custody ruling three times. She lost each try.

 

"The authorities tried to take my son away. I lost half my friends, my job, almost everything else I had, but I didn't lose God's guidance. I wouldn't talk about my experience for two years. I went from an active social life to that of a cripple before I could change things. I wanted to get a degree in psychology, but had to quit several years later when my money ran out."

 

Carter Mills's appearance on the Geraldo Show in 1989 was preceded by an old buddy breaking off their friendship just because he had agreed to discuss his near-death experience on national television. Carter Mills was heartbroken, yet appear he did, there and hundreds of other places, sharing the voluminous knowledge he was given while on The Other Side. For this he has been both hated and thanked, shunned and welcomed. His mind is often flooded with incredibly accurate prophesies that leave him frustrated for want of knowing what to do about them. Sometimes he feels as if he's losing personal control. Light bulbs even blow up in his presence if he flips on/off switches too fast. Nonetheless, he is now healthier than ever, youthful and energetic, and he brags about how his son has turned out in spite of all the problems. "My sacrifices were worth it, for my son knows that God is real. He is drug free and tuned to his own soul."

 

Embraced by the light of Jesus

Betty Eadie's near-death experience

 

Excerpt:

But I wanted to know everything, from beginning to end. My curiosity had always been a torment to my parents and husband - and sometimes to me - but now it was a blessing, and I was thrilled with the freedom of learning. I was being taught by the master teacher! My comprehension was such that I could understand volumes in an instant. It was as if I could look at a book and comprehend it at a glance - as though I could just sit back while the book revealed itself to me in every detail, forward and backward, inside and out, every nuance and possible suggestion.

 

All in an instant. As I comprehended one thing, more questions and answers would come to me, all building on each other, and interacting as if all truth were intrinsically connected. The word "omniscient" had never been more meaningful to me. Knowledge permeated me. In a sense it became me, and I was amazed at my ability to comprehend the mysteries of the universe simply by reflecting on them.

 

I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion? The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual development and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel and never will have while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone to further knowledge. Each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel discontented with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill that void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way, these new opportunities to learn will be given.

 

Having received this knowledge, I knew that we have no right to criticize any church or religion in any way. They are all precious in his sight. Very special people with important missions have been placed in all countries, in all religions, in every station of life, that they might touch others. There is a fullness of the Gospel, but most people will not attain it here. In order to grasp this truth, we need to listen to the Spirit and let go of our egos.

 

I wanted to learn the purpose of life on the earth. Why are we here? As I basked in the love of Jesus Christ, I couldn't imagine why any spirit would voluntarily leave this wonderful paradise and all it offered - worlds to explore and ideas to create and knowledge to gain. Why would anyone want to come here? In answer, I remembered the creation of the earth. I actually experienced it as if it were being reenacted before my eyes. This was important. Jesus wanted me to internalize this knowledge. He wanted me to know how I felt when the creation occurred. And the only way to do that was for me to view it again and feel what I had felt before.

 

All people as spirits in the pre-mortal world took part in the creation of the earth. We were thrilled to be part of it. We were with God, and we knew that he created us, that we were his very own children. He was pleased with our development and was filled with absolute love for each one of us. Also, Jesus Christ was there. I understood, to my surprise, that Jesus was a separate being from God, with his own divine purpose, and I knew that God was our mutual Father. My Protestant upbringing had taught me that God the Father and Jesus Christ were one being. As we all assembled, the Father explained that coming to earth for a time would further our spiritual growth. Each spirit who was to come to earth assisted in planning the conditions on earth, including the laws of mortality which would govern us. These included the laws of physics as we know them, the limitations of our bodies, and spiritual powers that we would be able to access. We assisted God in the development of plants and animal life that would be here. Everything was created of spirit matter before it was created physically - solar systems, suns, moons, stars, planets, life upon the planets, mountains, rivers, seas, etc. I saw this process, and then, to further understand it, I was told by the Savior that the spirit creation could be compared to one of our photographic prints; the spirit creation would be like a sharp, brilliant print, and the earth would be like its dark negative. This earth is only a shadow of the beauty and glory of its spirit creation, but it is what we needed for our growth. It was important that I understand that we all assisted in creating our conditions here.

 

Many times the creative thoughts we have in this life are the result of unseen inspiration. Many of our important inventions and even technological developments were first created in the spirit by spirit prodigies. Then individuals on earth received the inspiration to create these inventions here. I understood that there is a vital, dynamic link between the spirit world and mortality, and that we need the spirits on the other side for our progression. I also saw that they are very happy to assist us in any way they can.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The cord keeps the consciousness functioning between two bodies which are materially separated, otherwise there would be death.

[bhaktajoy]

"Who am I?", asked Bharata. "That is not a question that can easily

be answered."

 

The king answered, "I fail to understand. Surely the form in which

you are now existing is who you are."

 

"No," said Bharata. "I am the atman(soul) and the atman(soul) is the

same as the paramatman(supersoul). The supersoul is everywhere and

therefore, the soul is also everywhere. I am everywhere. I am in all

physical bodies. It is meaningless to ask who you are and who I am.

We are all one and the same. Wood has come from the trees and this

palanquin is made of wood. But is the palanquin wood or tree? When

you ride on the palanquin, does anyone say that you are riding on a

tree? Men, women, cows, horses, elephants, birds and trees, these

are all meaningless names. They are all illusions. Everything is one

and the same. I am everywhere. If there had been a place or an

object where I do not exist, I could have everywhere, I do not know

how to answer your question. Tell me king, are you your head or your

stomach? Or is all of it, you? But then, what will you call that

which is distinct from your physical body? Think about what I have

said."

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

From the Book:Fireweaver

 

The Story of a Life, a Near-Death, and Beyond

 

by May Eulitt and Stephen Hoyer

 

11 NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE

 

In the early fall, shortly before James and Rashad were to have gone back to India, the three of us went to the cornfields one afternoon to cut fodder. This involves chopping up what's left of the corn stalks after the corn has been picked and hauling it away. Dad had an old tractor that we might have used, but it was more trouble to start than it was worth. So for light hauling we still usually used an old team of horses, and that's what we did on this particular day. There was a metal gate that separated the cornfield from the hay meadows where the rest of the family was working that day. Throughout the day we would take turns climbing down off the wagon to open and shut it so the cows wouldn't get in the fodder until we were finished for the day.

 

There was a tingle in the air that day that was more than just the nippy temperature. There was a feeling of excitement that we all acknowledged and peculiar kind of energy that we all felt as we raced down the rows to see who could cut the fastest. The horses even seemed to sense something and moved along at an unusually fast pace all day without being urged to. In the late afternoon a storm began to brew over the slopes of the western hills. Raindrops plopped here and there, and we decided that this would be our last load for the day. When we reached the gate, it was James' turn to climb down and open the gate. He opened it and pulled it back, and I shouted over the wind for him to leave it open. James reached up for my arm as he clambered back onto the wagon. I guess I was leaning the wrong way, because his weight pulled me toward him, and I was about to fall when Rashad reached out and grabbed my other arm to steady me.

 

It was at that exact moment that the lightning hit. I saw it sparkle along the top of the gate, and then it exploded around us with such an incredible brightness that it felt as if we were being sucked directly into the sun. The next thing we knew, all of that was gone, and we were all in a large room or hall made of dark stone. The ceiling was so high and the gloom so thick that we couldn't see the top. There were no furnishings or wall hangings—just cold, black stone all around. I knew I should be afraid, but I just felt peaceful, floating along there in the gloom with my two friends in the great, dark hall. The stately walls of this place loomed above us, and somehow they radiated both great power and great masculinity. It was as if some ancient warrior king had once inhabited the hall and had left behind all the strong symbols of manhood upon his departure. I remember thinking that it would have suited King Arthur. It was at that point that I realized that the three of us were united in thought and body. We were holding hands just as we had been when the lightning struck, but our minds were connected as well. Images of Arthur came to me from James and Rashad, and I could see the same images that they were seeing. James saw only a comic version of the once and future king. Rashad saw himself as Arthur, as if portraying him in a play. In a twinkling, I suddenly knew James and Rashad better than I have known anyone else in my life.

 

We realized there was light coming into the chamber from an archway at one end, but it was more than just light. It was a golden warmth that embraced us. It gave off a feeling of peace and contentment that was more intense than anything we had ever felt, and we were drawn toward it. We were not speaking, but we were communicating with one another on some other level, seeing through one another's eyes and souls. As we came to the archway and passed through, we entered a beautiful valley much like the one I visited in my delirium as a child. There were meadows and tree-lined hills that led to tall mountains in the distance, and everything glistened with golden sparks of light. James and Rashad saw it as the Ha Valley in India in the time before humans, and at first, I saw the same things they did.

 

We saw that the sparkling lights were tiny, transparent bubbles that drifted in the air and sparkled on the grass. We realized that each tiny sparkle was a soul. At this point, our separate visions began to diverge, but we were still each aware of what the others were seeing. To me, the valley appeared to be Heaven, but at the same time I knew that James and Rashad were seeing it differently. James saw it as the Gulf of Souls. Rashad saw it as Nirvana, and somehow we knew all this without speaking. The light began to gather at the far end of the valley, and the mountains sparkled with its presence. Out of the mist, a white being with a golden hue began to materialize. I saw an angel with a strong, bright face, but not as you'd usually imagine. She was closer to a strong, Viking Valkyrie. I knew she was the special angel that watches over the women of my family, and somehow I knew that her name was Helena. I have often wondered if the reason I perceived her this way was that the strength of the women in my family had always impressed me so much. James saw this same being as his late father, a career Navy officer, in a white naval uniform with gold buttons. The buttons shone so brightly that they wrapped the being in a soft, golden glow. Rashad perceived the being to be the Enlightened One, or Buddha. He was dressed in white linen with gold threads running through his raiment.

 

The being spoke first to Rashad and welcomed him. He said that Rashad's time on earth was done. He was worthy now of Nirvana. Rashad asked why James and I were there and was told that we were part of the reason he was worthy of Nirvana. His two great friends loved him so much that they had willingly accompanied him on his last journey. At the same time, however, James received a different message. He had been worried about what his father would think about his antiwar protest activities, and his father told him he was proud of him for standing up for what he believed. He knew he was not a coward because a coward would not have made this journey with Rashad. I received yet another message in which Helena told me that she was glad I had remembered the example of strength, honesty, wisdom, and loyalty taught to me by my family.

 

We spent what seemed like an eternity in this garden of souls as we talked to our separate, yet joined, entities. They said that they appeared to us in this way because back in the real world we were physically joined when the lightning struck us. They said that it also symbolized the joining of all religions and doctrines. They said that I would live to see a new age of tolerance and that the souls and hearts of humanity would eventually be joined as securely and as safely as the three of us were currently joined.

 

We perceived that in the distant mountains there abided a true Unity. We were led to know that this One was the supreme essence of all religions and that all the higher elements of the universe were vested in this being. The guides taught us that doctrine and creed and race meant nothing. No matter what we believed, we were all children joined under one God, and the only rule was God's true law—do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We should treat all people as if they were a part of our soul, because they are. All living things in the universe were connected to one another. They said that soon humanity would mature enough to assume a higher place in the universal scheme of things, but until then we must learn acceptance and tolerance and love for one another. They said that there would come a new age when people would not be able to endure seeing others homeless and hungry. We would realize that only by helping one another could we truly help ourselves.

 

In the time we spent with our guides I begged Helena to give me some understanding of all that was happening, not just during this amazing experience, but also back home in my real life. She told me that I would be given the time I needed in another existence to understand what it all meant and that after I found understanding I would know what I had to do with my life. She said that I was not yet ready for the lessons I would eventually learn beyond the veil. These lessons would be long and hard, but they were necessary for me to achieve my higher potential. She said that we all have to be willing to face our worst fears and acknowledge our greatest flaws before we can find out who we truly are. This is a truth I am still trying to master.

 

Before we would leave this glorious place, I told Helena that there was one more thing I wanted to know. When I was young I had prayed that God would make me a missionary to China, and my prayer had been answered when an angel had come to my room one night and said, "Calm your fervor, child. That is not what God has planned for you. God doesn't want you to convert anyone. God doesn't care about doctrines and trivial physical weaknesses. He cares only about what is in the heart of each person." But because I had not become a missionary, I wanted to know why God had not seen fit to use me. "Oh, but child," Helena said, "He has. You have affected many people with your kind heart and an open kitchen door. Your service to God is measured not so much by how far you go to help those in obvious need, but by how much you give of yourself to those whose true suffering you may never know."

 

Eventually our spirit guide told us that it was time to go. We would not be allowed to stay longer because it was not yet time for me or for James: only for Rashad. The Enlightened One told Rashad that he would have a little time before he returned to take care of his worldly affairs. James' father told him that he would return to this place soon after Rashad, but the two of them had to go back for now so that I could. I said that I would willingly stay here in this valley with them, but Helena told me that I had not fulfilled my destiny and that I had children yet unborn.

 

We drifted slowly toward the archway. The pull became stronger, and we were literally thrown back into the world. We floated for a while there, hovering above our bodies. Some of my cousins had been in the next field and had seen what happened. We saw them all come running to where we lay. We could see that James and Rashad's hands were still stuck to my arms, and we watched as my cousins pried their fingers loose so they could turn Rashad over to help him.

 

When our hands were pried loose, James and I reentered our bodies. We felt as if we were on fire, but it turned out that we had only minor injuries. Rashad, it seemed, being on the end, had taken most of the charge. The doctors said that the lightning had caused damage to his heart, lungs, and liver. He remained in the hospital for several weeks. During that time, tests revealed that James had a brain tumor, probably caused by the beating he took at Kent State, which would eventually claim his life.

 

As soon as Rashad was well enough to travel, James took him home to India, where Rashad took on the life of the ascetic, in the Vedic tradition, just as his grandfather had done. He wrote to his wife and told her to stay with her family because he knew he was going to die, and he wanted his last time to be spent in spiritual awakenings. In the writings of the ancient Vedas, the ascetic stage is the one that occurs after a man has raised his family and his children are gone from home. At that time, he is expected to put away all physical things and concentrate on the things of the mind and soul. And that's more or less the lifestyle that Rashad adopted for the last days of his life.

 

James went back to teaching, and the three of us all wrote to one another every week. About a year and a half later, on a cold day in January, Rashad returned to Nirvana. James and I knew when his soul left the world without being told. James called me and we talked for a long time. As soon as we hung up, Rashad's brother called James to tell him the news. I once gave Rashad a book. He had his brother write a note in the back of it and send it back to me when he died. The following passages were marked. All are from The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran.

 

Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a truth."

 

Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have met the souls walking upon my path."

 

For the soul walks upon all paths.

 

But you, children of space, you restless in rest, you shall not be trapped nor tamed . . . . You shall not fold your wings that you may pass through doors, nor bend your heads that they strike not against a ceiling, nor fear to breathe lest walls should crack and fall down.

 

You are not enclosed within your bodies, nor confined to houses or fields. That which is you dwells above the mountain and roves with the wind.

 

It is not a thing that crawls into the sun for warmth or digs holes into darkness for safety,

 

But a thing free, a spirit that envelops the earth and moves in the ether.

 

This would I have you remember in remembering me:

 

That which seems most feeble and bewildered in you is the strongest and most determined.

 

Is it not your breath that has erected and hardened the structure of your bones?

 

And is it not a dream which none of you remember having dreamt, that builded your city and fashioned all that there is in it?

 

Could you but see the tides of that breath you would cease to see all else,

 

And if you could hear the whispering of the dream you would hear no other sound.

 

You would know the secret of death.

 

But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life?

 

The owl whose night-bound eyes are blind unto the day cannot unveil the mystery of light.

 

If you would indeed behold the spirit of death, open your heart wide unto the body of life.

 

For life and death are one, even as the river and the sea are one.

 

In the depth of your hopes and desires lies your silent knowledge of the beyond;

 

And like seeds dreaming beneath the snow your heart dreams of spring.

 

Trust the dreams, for in them is hidden the gate to eternity.

 

Your fear of death is but the trembling of the shepherd when he stands before the king whose hand is to be laid upon him in honour.

 

Is the shepherd not joyful beneath his trembling, that he shall wear the mark of the king?

 

Yet is he not more mindful of his trembling?

 

For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun?

 

And what is it to cease breathing, but to free the breath from its restless tides, that it may rise and expand and seek God unencumbered?

 

James lived about three years after he found out he had the brain tumor. The doctors had made it very clear that he had virtually no chance of recovery, but even though he knew he was going to die, he at first denied it as so many people do. I think the reason he finally came to acceptance was that he knew that when he died, he'd see Rashad again. He and Rashad were raised together like brothers, and Rashad was the closest person to him on this earth. I was probably the second closest person, but Rashad was his mentor, and that means a lot more, I think, to a man than it does to a woman. It was very difficult for James to accept that his mentor was gone. So in the end, all James wanted to do was go and be with Rashad, and the brain tumor didn't really matter anymore.

 

When Rashad died, I had hair that reached my knees. So did he. I remember the first time I ever saw his hair down. It was that first misty morning in the little spillway bridge, when I thought he was an apparition of some ancient god. The fog enshrouded him in wisps and curls that ran like damp fingers through his hair. I had never seen him like that before. Usually he and I both kept our hair braided and wrapped on the back of our heads, so this was the first time either of us had let our hair down, so to speak. When he died, I went to the mirror and took out the pins that held up my hair, letting the braid fall down over my shoulder. When I looked at my reflection, I saw the warm, bright days of summer and the cool, misty mornings we had spent together. I heard his low, soft laughter. I saw us there on the bridge where a cloud of black and a halo of red enveloped us in soft, damp locks.

 

When I focused on my image in the mirror again, I knew what I had to do. Something of myself had to be sacrificed to his memory, and my hair seemed the perfect gift. I pushed the scissors up tight against the back of my head and swished them shut. The braid came loose in my hand. I stood there and stared at it as though I had killed a living thing. I stroked the length of it, remembering how he had loved to touch it and all the feelings we had shared of its touch. I put it into an envelope and mailed it that day to James, who took it with him when he went back to the Ha Valley to honor Rashad's memory. He made a paper boat, put the braid in it, and then took it to the river where Rashad's ashes had floated away to the great Ganges and eventually to the sea. He set the small boat on fire and placed it in the water. A small whirlpool caught the little boat and whirled it round and round until it was gone.

 

My hair was cut so short in the back that the friend who does my hair almost had to cut me bald to straighten it out, but I was beyond caring what I looked like. I know it bothered Nick to touch the back of my head. Where once there had been a soft cloud of hair, now there was only stubble. He resented the sacrifice I had made to Rashad, but he understood my grief and comforted me in all the ways a man can comfort a woman. I have never worn my hair long since. To this day, as it begins to get long, I start to feel uncomfortable. I find myself shoving it around and worrying it through my fingers. So I keep it cut short even now to honor the memory of a truly exceptional man.

 

James gave most of his considerable inheritance to a charity that educated young people in India. I guess that was the great work he was sent back to do. Shortly before he died, he sent back the stone I had given him when we were children. He had had it polished smooth. He said that because the stone was smooth now, I didn't have to worry anymore. When James returned to the valley of sparkling life, I could feel it immediately, and the tears came in a rush. I could not stop crying. I felt so alone without James and Rashad.

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Interesting about the cord. When this lady told me this, I had not heard of it before. I just assumed it was unique to her experience. Some people will dismiss NDEs on the grounds that those who go to heaven see culturally specific images. If you are Christian you see angels with wings, if you are Hindu, you see Visnuduttas etc… From a Vaisnava perspective I think it is easily explained. The Lord states that we achieve that which we meditate upon. That is the destination we will arrive at. So if you are Christian, then when you pass away, you will go to Jesus as he is your Lord. And if you Hindu heaven will manifest to you in a specific manner as well. That’s how I read it.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

The Lord states that we achieve that which we meditate upon. That is the destination we will arrive at. So if you are Christian, then when you pass away, you will go to Jesus as he is your Lord. And if you Hindu heaven will manifest to you in a specific manner as well. That’s how I read it.

I really pity the Moslems. What will they meditate upon? Where will they go? How sad?

[bhaktajoy]

Karthik Prabhuji,

Do you think that Muslims are left out of the great plan of Godhead?

 

from:http://near-death.com/muslim.html

 

According to the tenets of the Muslim faith, death is the complete end of physical life and the beginning of a period of rest until the day of resurrection when Allah judges the living and the dead.

 

Many Muslims believe that the righteous are able to see visions of God after death and that the wicked see visions of hell. Except for these possible visions of heaven or hell, Muslims believe the soul remains in a kind of "soul sleep" until the day of Judgment. When the day of Judgment arrives, everyone is judged according to their deeds in life. Many Muslims believe that non-Muslims can attain heaven only after a period of purification in the fires of purgatory.

 

Dr. Melvin Morse has reported the following Muslim near-death experience in his book "Parting Visions":

 

Mebruke is a thirty-year-old Saudi Arabian living in New York City. At the age of twenty she was swimming in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Italy when she became tired. As she headed for shore, she realized that she was too far out to make it back. She began to struggle and swallow water. Finally she slipped beneath the waves.

 

"I went under for the fourth time, and my body went limp and I wasn’t aware of it anymore. It was at this point that I saw a beautiful white light. It was so bright and yet it had such a calming effect that the more I looked at it, the calmer I felt. To this day I can’t really say what that light was. In my religion [Muslim] there are beings called angels who are made out of pure white light. Maybe that is what I saw.

 

"Anyway, while I was underwater, I heard a voice say, ‘You are not to die like this.’ Suddenly I felt this energy shoot through me from my feet to my head, and at the same time I seemed to be propelled out of the water. It was as if someone was physically bringing me out of the water, but I can swear that there was no physical being there.

 

"I was moved through the water, I don’t know how else to describe it. Before long a boat came, and a man reached over the side and pulled me out. When he did that, I started to laugh because I was so glad to be out of the water."

 

In the eighth century, a mystical sect of Islam began which merged the mystical traditions of the Greeks, Buddhists and Hindus with traditional Islamic faith. Concepts found in Sufism can be found in a great many near-death experiences which have been reported. The Sufi masters teach that after death, a person judges themselves thereby bringing about their own heaven or hell. Sufism is known as "the Way of the Heart" and the "Way of the Pure". It is a means by which one can move from the lower level of self to ascend to the Divine Light that penetrates the entire universe. This light concept is similar to many other religions as well as the near-death experience. According to Sufi tradition, there are many ways to ascend, but the essence of the path to God is to find yourself. A Sufi saying states, "Know yourself, know your Lord."

"Die happily and look forward to taking up a new and better form. Like the sun, only when you set in the west can you rise in the east." - Jelaluddin Rumi

 

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Crossing over & coming home

Dr. Liz Dale's gay near-death research

 

Dr. Liz Dale is a clinical psychologist who was motivated to work on a near-death experience study in the gay and lesbian community. Her motivation came to her upon learning that no such studies existed. After putting together a questionnaire she contacted the gay community through a popular San Francisco newspaper. Over a two year period, more than 30 people responded to study. Her findings are documented in her excellent book Crossing Over and Coming Home. The following is the near-death experience of one of the respondents in her study.

 

Immediately after the impact from falling forward onto the metal grating, I felt myself floating up, out of my body, and hovering above my body and all the people who were watching it, and who seemed paralyzed by shock and horror at what had happened. I think they pretty much assumed that I was dead.

 

I remember looking down and seeing my body three-dimensionally for the first time. And it was such a shock, because we never see ourselves except in a one-dimensional mirror reflection, or a photograph. But I felt no pain at all; I felt completely whole and free, and I thought, "This is who I really am." I saw my physical body, all crumpled and bloody and lifeless; and this enormous wave of compassion washed over me and I wanted to tell all of the bystanders that everything was going to be OK and not to be sad or alarmed.

 

Then suddenly I felt myself being pulled, literally at the speed of light, farther from the physical earth, and I saw all of the people on the planet simultaneously in that one moment. I saw people in China and Sweden and Uruguay; I saw people sleeping and dreaming; I saw people preparing food in their homes and in restaurants; people traveling in all manner of transportation, to and from work and school and appointments; I saw children playing together, and bankers and teachers and factory workers at their jobs. I saw mothers giving birth to children, which was especially beautiful and moving to me.

 

I saw people in hospitals and prisons, mental institutions and nursing homes and orphanages who felt desperately alone and abandoned and afraid. And I saw people painting pictures and planting gardens; writing stories and composing music, and people dancing.

 

I saw people praying in mosques and temples, synagogues, and churches; and people individually expressing their own silent prayers. I saw indigenous tribes in all different parts of the world drumming and chanting. And God was sending multitudes of angels to the earth, to assist in answering all of the countless, millions of prayers being offered up at that single moment.

 

As I seemed to move further into the light, I saw the earth as though from outer space. It was like a beautiful, shimmering blue and green jewel floating in the cosmos. As I moved closer I saw that the earth was vibrating and pulsating, as though it was a living, breathing entity and not just some physical mass. And I thought, "This is Mother Earth; this is our Divine Mother." But as I looked even closer, I saw that there were terrible wounds and sores on different parts of her body, and that she was gasping for breath, and calling out to God and to her children to stop the killing and destruction and hatefulness - that she was dying and praying for all of us to help her to heal and regenerate. Again I felt overwhelmed by feelings of sadness and compassion, and I desired to hold Mother Earth in my arms - to whisper words of love and hope.

 

I remember that a part of me felt frustrated and powerless to actually do anything of value - just as I have often felt in my physical body. Yet another part of me felt completely powerful, as though there was nothing that I couldn't accomplish. At that moment I asked God, "What do you want me to do?" And the answer that came to me was that I had to go back into my physical body in order to complete certain goals that had already been set into motion. And I thought, "But I can't go back because my body is too far gone, it's beyond repair." And I was also afraid that I could never accomplish, with all of my physical limitations, all that I could do as a spirit form, which felt so free and unencumbered.

 

I remember feeling angry and fearful about going back, after being in all of this light - to have to go back to the darkness. And then I felt the presence of Jesus Christ all around me. The feeling of love was completely overwhelming. I felt as though I was swimming in an ocean of ecstasy. And I asked him, "Do I really have to go back?" And his answer was that I was a part of God's divine plan, as is every person, and that my ultimate purpose is to love and serve God and all sentient beings. And I could tell that he understood all of my fear and doubt. And he assured me that I would heal and recover, but that it would be a lifelong process; and that I did have the power within me, only I didn't realize it until now, and that all I had to do was to ask for the courage and strength to persevere in my life and in my work. This particular information held enormous value for me, as I had often questioned whether I would ever really find a place in the world - having always been somewhat of an outsider - a place where my passionate concern regarding so many compelling modern issues could somehow take solid form, and that I could hopefully make even a small difference.

 

Then Christ said that he would send me guardian angels to aid me in my healing, and to guide and protect me. Then the light became even brighter, and suddenly there were angels everywhere, playing the most transcendentally beautiful music, and singing "Hosanna!" and hymns of praise to God. And some of the angels were crying, which I didn't understand. And Jesus said that the angels were weeping tears of joy for my new life on earth and that they were also expressing compassion for the hardship I would endure for the rest of my earthly existence. And he said that he had summoned the angels to guide me on my journey back to the earth, and to my physical body. I remember feeling so grateful that Christ was there to help me try and understand everything that was happening. I also remember feeling that I wasn't afraid anymore; that no one could ever hurt me again. And that I would try my best every day to serve God's will.

 

I awakened to find two men kneeling over me, with expressions of apprehension and concern on both their faces. For some reason I felt that they might be gay men. They both looked to be in their thirties. I couldn't help but notice how handsome they both were, and that they were beautifully dressed in what appeared to be very expensive business clothes. I remember thinking that they might be some kind of executives working for a corporation, which in fact is exactly what they turned out to be. One of the men obviously had some type of first aid training, and had monitored my vital signs. They informed me that an ambulance was on its way and to try to remain still and not speak, which was easy to do, considering the extent of my injuries. They had both taken off their jackets and lain them over me, and I was horrified to discover that the jackets were covered with blood and completely ruined. I remember feeling embarrassed, and yet enormously grateful for the kindness of these two strangers. Their entire presence was completely warm and comforting, and I felt strangely safe and protected.

 

They waited alongside me until the ambulance came, and then arrived at the hospital to make sure that I was properly attended to. They visited me in the hospital on two separate occasions. I made a somewhat feeble offer to replace their ruined clothes, but they simply laughed it off, and insisted that the only thing that mattered was that I was alive and more or less in one piece. Again their mere presence filled me with a sense of hope and courage. I felt very strongly that both men symbolized what would prove to be a succession of "angels" that Christ had promised to send me. This, in fact, turned out to be truer than I could possibly have imagined.

 

"From an endless dream we have come. In an endless dream we are living. To an endless dream we shall return." - Kushi

 

 

[theist]

Wow! I love reading these Bhaktajoy.These experiences told in peoples own words I believe are having a great effect on people, in terms of accepting life after death as a reality.

 

Some of our friends in India, where that understanding is common place, may be surprised that such a basic thing is a topic of contention in the West.

 

Yes folks, we are that fallen.

[bhaktajoy]

Yes they really motivate.You can read all of them at

 

www.near-death.com

 

We find that truth is universal.Only close observation is required

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 05-13-2002).]

[bhaktajoy]

Srimad Bhagavatam

- the natural commentary on Vedanta-sutra

 

"Srimad Bhagavatam - the natural commentary on Vedanta-sutra", given by His Divine Grace Srila Suhotra Swami in Sri Mayapura Dhama , India, in March, 1994.

 

 

Sixth lecture

"The Vedic path of liberation"

Today we are going to look at the Bhagavatam description of the path of elevation and liberation, which is the Vedic path. The Vedic path is a path of elevation for all human beings and that path is one. It is called, as you see here, arciradi-vartmana in the Upanisads, in Vedanta sutra and also in Srimad Bhagavatam. The Srimad Bhagavatam verse I can refer you to with explanation of this term arciradi-vartmana is from 8th Canto, 5. 36:

 

 

yac-caksur asit taranir deva-yanam

trayimayo brahmana esa dhisnyam

dvaram ca mukter amrtam ca mrtyuh

prasidatam nah sa maha-vibhutih

...which means: "The sun god marks the path of liberation which is called arciradi-vartma. He is the chief source of understanding of the Vedas. He is the abode where the Absolute Truth can be worshipped. He is the gateway to liberation and he is the source of eternal life as well as the cause of death. The sun god is the eye of the Lord. May that Supreme Lord, Who is supremely opulent be pleased with us".

 

So this path of liberation which is marked out by arcis, arcis means the rays of the sun, is referred to by Krsna in the Eighth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. He speaks there of actually two paths. One is called sukla and the other is called krsna, or the path of light and the path of darkness. Specifically now - the difference between these two is that in the sukla-vartma, the path of light, the sun is in the bright fortnight and in the krsna, darkness, the sun is travelling in the dark fortnight. So now we will explain, as we go on, what this all means. But first of all I want to ask from you remembering Lord Krsna's presentation of these two paths. I think most of you can remember from the Eight Chapter the Lord speaks of two paths of elevation. So he makes a distinction between the two. He says those who follow the path of light attain one thing and those who follow the path of dark - something else happens to them. So can someone tell me what is the difference? (Devotee : One has to come back.) Yes, one has to come back. Who? (Devotee: Who is following the dark) Those who follow the path of dark, the krsna path. Now of course this krsna does not mean Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is another sense of the term krsna, which means dark or black. So those who leave their body in the dark fortnight, Krsna says, they ascend to certain level and then they return. Those who leave the body in the bright fortnight, they do not return to this mortal world. But both are following this path which is chalked out by the rays of the sun. So what is being referred to is a mystic process. Now the two paths, which are called in Bhagavad-gita sukla and krsna, are referred to in Srimad Bhagavatam as devayana and pitryana. So the reference I can give you for devayana and pitryana paths - you can look in 7th Canto, 15th Chapter, 54,55 - this will tell you about the devayana path. 7.15.50,51 will inform you of the pitryana path. So in short, the devayana path is a gradual step-by-step process which takes one up to the Brahmaloka and then finally through the layers of the universe, into the spiritual realm. This is a gradual mystical process. And the means of ascend of the soul is actually by way of the rays of the sun. You may remember from Nectar of Devotion, in which Srila Prabhupada speaks of the laghima-siddhi, the mystic perfection by which a yogi becomes so light that he can move on the rays of the sun. These rays become for him just like a stairway. So this is the method of elevation - in devayana as well as in pitryana. But the pitryana path does not go so far. So now the distinction between the two paths is very important. We will be talking about that in a moment. One thing I want to say is that there are those, you may have heard, some persons who are coming out from the so-called new age movement, these modern spiritual groups. They accept reincarnation of the soul. But very often their believe is that the soul is always making progress. Automatically the soul must go up. Practically they say no matter what a person does. It is the arrangement of this universe that the soul will go upward into higher and higher regions. Sometimes they say, the worst that might happened is that the soul will get stuck in one place for time. But the soul will never go back. There is a group called the theosophists, which was started by one madam Blavatski. So this is one of the... again using this word archetype, archetypical new age group. Actually it is not so new - it was started about a hundred years ago or more. But anyway they propagate this idea that the soul is always being promoted and since that time many, many other groups are coming out, mystical groups and philosophical groups and so on who dabble in the Vedas and psychic phenomena and things like that. They have this idea that the soul is always moving upwards. Now this idea is actually very, very old, because this idea is mentioned in the Vedanta sutra as what is known as purva-paksa. Purva-paksa means a false argument. So because this false argument appears in Vedanta sutra we can understand that in the Vedic spiritual culture there has always been a class who have misunderstood in this way.

 

So the source of this misunderstanding is from the Upanisads, a wrong purport or wrong explanation of an Upanisad called the Kausitaki Upanisad, verse 2 of the first chapter. This verse says that all who depart the human body go to the moon. So the moon is a heavenly planet. So from this statement has come a wrong explanation which says 'Yes, all souls leaving the human body will go upward on this arciradi-vartmana'. But this is wrong. What this actually means is all souls who are following the Vedic culture they will be promoted either by the devayana or pitryana path. What is the difference between the two? We touched on that. That the pitryana, those who follow that path don't go so far. They go as far as the moon or the Pitrloka. This is the path that is followed by the karma-kandiyas, who worship the forefathers and they worship the demigods with the purpose of entering the moon or the Pitrloka. Sometimes you will find that these two are said to be the same. Or that the Pitrloka is a department in the moon. But anyway the moon planet and the Pitrloka planet are heavenly places where the karma-kandiyas go and there they receive, if they enter the moon, a body which is called a soma-raja or a body of nectar, a body that is meant for tasting heavenly nectar. There is an interesting purport in Second Canto in which Srila Prabhupada explains that in this human body the genital organs are endowed with this ability to experience the same nectar. That's the only place on the human body. So therefore human beings are very inclined to enjoy sex life. But if one goes to the moon then one's whole body is endowed with the facility for tasting that nectar. So anyway, you can just imagine. To attain such birth on moon or Pitrloka is very interesting for those who are lusty, inclined to sense gratification. So this is the goal of materialistic persons. But materialistic persons, who are pious enough, intelligent enough to follow the Vedic injunctions here on earth. So they don't want liberation, they want elevation to a high status of sense gratification. So they follow this krsna-paksa or this pitryana path. So what this entails is that they are... I will read the verse and purport, 7.15.50,51: /transl/ "My dear King Yudhisthira, an oblations of ghee and food grains like barley and sesame are offered in sacrifice, they turn into celestial smoke, which carries one to successively higher planetary systems like the kingdoms of Dhuma, Ratri, Krsnapaksa, Daksinam and ultimately the moon. Then, however, the performers of sacrifice, descend again to earth, to become herbs, creepers, vegetables and food grains. These are eaten by different living entities and turn into semen, which is injected into female bodies. Thus one takes birth again and again."

 

So from the Purport: "This is explained in Bhagavad-gita (9.21):

 

 

te tam bhuktva svarga-lokam visalam

ksinye punye martya-lokam visanti

evam trayi-dharmam anuprapanna

gata gatam kama-kama labhante

"When those who follow the pravrtti-marga have enjoyed heavenly sense pleasure, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus, through the Vedic principles, they achieve only flickering happiness".

 

Following the pravrtti-marga, the living entity who desires to be promoted to the higher planetary systems performs sacrifices regularly, and how he goes up and comes down again is described here in Srimad Bhagavatam as well as in Bhagavad-gita. It is also said, trai-gunya-visaya vedah: "The Vedas deal mainly with the three modes of material nature". The Vedas, especially three Vedas, namely Sama, Yajur and Rk, vividly describe this process of ascending to the higher planets and returning. But Krsna advises Arjuna, trai-gunya-visaya veda / nistrai-gunyo bhavarjuna: one has to transcend these three modes of material nature, and then one will be released from the cycle of birth and death. Otherwise, although one may be promoted to a higher planetary system, such as Candraloka, one must again come down (ksinye punye martya-lokam visanti). After one's enjoyment due to pious activities is finished, one must return to this planet in rainfall and first take birth as a plant or creeper, which is eaten by various animals, including human beings, and turned to seen. This semen is injected into the female body, and thus the living entity takes birth. Those who return to earth in this way take birth especially in higher families like those of brahmanas."

 

So this karma-kandiya path is also called pravrtti-marga. Who knows the meaning of this pravrtti-marga as opposed to nivrtti-marga? (Devotee...sense gratification...) Yes, pravrtti-marga means a path of sense gratification. So one can become elevated by pravrtti-marga, or karma-kandiya, as far as Candraloka, but then one has to come back. Nivrtti-marga means the path of renounciation. So one following nivrtti-marga or the path of renunciation, liberation, he goes upward also and he also reaches the moon but he goes beyond. So let us hear from Srimad Bhagavatam 7.15.54,55 (SSS mentions aside: It's the day before Gaura Purnima so... Also another thing I discovered is a nest of snakes under the seat. So maybe that's also the problem. Anyway...) This is the path... again, the devayana path or the path of liberation:

"On his path of ascent the progressive living entity enters the different worlds of fire, the sun, the day, the end of the day, the bright fortnight, the full moon, and the passing of the sun in the north, along with their presiding demigods. When he enters Brahmaloka, he enjoys life for many millions of years, and finally his material designation comes to an end. He then comes to a subtle designation, from which he attains the casual designation, witnessing all previous states. Upon the annihilation of this causal state, he attains his pure state, in which he identifies with the Supersoul. In this way the living entity becomes transcendental".

 

And the next verse, 55, reads: "This gradual process of elevation for self-realization is meant for those who are truly aware of the Absolute Truth. After repeated birth on this path, which is known as deva-yana, one attains these consecutive stages. One who is completely free from all material desires, being situated in the self, need not traverse the path of repeated birth and death."

 

So this path described here - the devayana or the nivrtti-marga is the path of jnana yoga. So in this path of jnana yoga there is also worship of demigods, but the goal is different, the goal is not to enjoy. The goal is to go higher and higher. These stages, which are also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita - the fire, the sun, the day, the end of the day, the bright fortnight, the full moon - this is actually referring to various Deities, which mark the path of arcirada-vartma, the path of elevation. So in the jnana yoga process as well as the other, the karma yoga, one worships these demigods, but in jnana yoga the goal is liberation, to enter Brahman. And when one is successful in devayana, then he never comes back to this world of birth and death.

 

So going back to this question of the Kausitaki Upanisad, that all who leave this human body enter the moon, what this Upanisad is referring to, are all souls who follow the Vedic culture whether they be karma yogis or jnana yogis or as we shall see momentarily also the bhakti yogis, because the devotees also follow the same path. We will explain this in a moment. So this is important to understand because I think in preaching it is very likely... I think many of you devotees come from Eastern Europe, but in Eastern Europe I have also heard the same question that why do you say the human being may take birth in a lower species when we have heard from madam Blavatski that the soul is always going higher and higher and higher? That is very interesting to note that this misconception is coming out of Vedanta controversy, a philosophical argument over the Upanisads. It's very, very ancient. But Vedanta sutra... Srila Vyasadeva, as we said on the first day, it is his code for understanding the Upanisads, he refutes this argument. He says this is a purva-paksa or a wrong argument. And in his commentary, in Srimad Bhagavatam , he is explaining this two paths and also, he is explaining, there is another path, a third path for those who do not follow any Vedic injunction. Who are neither karma yogis, jnana yogis or bhakti yogis either, in other words - for those who are sinful. So what happens to them? Do they go to the moon? No, they go to hell! So here we see explained in Srimad Bhagavatam 3.30.33-34 the explanation of how one goes to hell:

 

Translation: "Therefore person who is very eager to maintain his family and kinsmen simply by black methods..." In other words sinful methods - adharmena - the word is used, by irreligious activities. "...he certainly goes to the darkest region of hell, which is known as Andha-tamisra."

 

Now there is also an argument mentioned, another purva-paksa argument or wrong argument, which says: 'All right, so he goes to hell but then after he is punished in hell, then he goes to heaven, then he goes up higher and higher'. No, from 3.30.34 we learn, this is what happens:

 

"Having gone through all the miserable, hellish conditions and having passed in a regular order through the lowest forms of animal life prior to human birth, and having thus been purged of his sins, one is reborn again as a human being on this earth."

 

So you see, after having spent time in hell, then one comes up through the lower species, by these repeated births in lower species one's sins are relieved and finally one comes to the human form again and there one has the choice whether he will follow karma yoga, jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or follow adharma again, sinful activities. And on that choice depends what happens with him next, whether he is elevated on this arciradi-vartma or whether he again goes to hell.

 

So now let's speak more on this arciradi-vartma. The Upanisads and the Vedanta sutra speak of the heart as the sitting place of the soul and when the time for death comes upon the soul then according to the soul's karma a particular nadi... nadi means a channel, a subtle channel in the subtle body, the astral body, this channel is illuminated by the Supersoul. So, again, if that soul is sinful, Supersoul will illuminate a path downwards to go to hell via that path. But... or actually we hear that the Jamadutas come and pull him out of the body. But that path to hell , that is illuminated by the Supersoul for him. The Jamadutas are carrying him by that path down to hell. But if one goes upwards, then there is a particular nadi, which is called Susumna, which is illuminated. The Susumna-nadi. And this is mentioned in Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.24:

 

"O King, when such a mystic passes over the Milky Way by the illuminating Susumna to reach the highest planet, Brahmaloka, he goes first to Vaisvanara, the planet of the deity of the fire, wherein he becomes completely cleansed of all contaminations, and thereafter he goes still higher, to the circle of Sisumara, to relate with Lord Hari, the Personality of Godhead."

 

So this Susumna is mentioned in Srimad Bhagavatam. So through this Susumna nadi, this illuminated channel, he then passes into the region, called arcis, which is this region of the sun's rays. And that does not actually refer to just the sky above where we see the sunshine. But it is actually referring to a subtle manifestation of solar energy such as that which is seen in the subtle body. Around everyone there is an aura, you may know this from your reading of mystical books, that everyone has an aura around. So that aura is constructed of these arcis, these subtle sun rays or mystical rays of the sun. So the soul passes into this region of the aura and then, travelling on this aura, he can go higher. Actually when he reaches that region, he meets a guide, called the Arcisdeva, a luminous being, which conducts him higher and then he meets successive devas, successive Deities who take him higher and higher and higher and finally on the devayana path he comes to the Brahmaloka. So again, in your reading, perhaps before you became devotees you read some mystical book and you read some things like this about guarding angels, about guides, luminous beings that take one higher. So this is all there in the Vedic literature is explained.

 

Now for the followers of the pitryana, those who worship the forefathers, the guides are the forefathers or their representatives. Therefore you see even in modern times some people when they have what is called NDE, near-death experience, they clinically died in hospital, on operation and then after 5-10 minutes they came back to life. Sometimes they have memories, actually very startling memories of first being in a dark place, then seeing a channel or tunnel that is lid by a very wonderful light and they floated up to that channel and they came into another world and then there they saw their forefathers, maybe they saw their father or grandfather. So this is an experience of those who are on the pitryana path that their forefathers conduct them into heaven and there they enjoy. So the jnana yogis, those on the devayana path they are conducted by other beings until they reach Brahmaloka. So who conducts the devotee? Because the devotees also traverse the same path, path of elevation, till they reach... /break/

 

...and they told Dhruva Maharaja in Canto 4.12.24-25 that : "We are representatives of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the creator of the whole universe, Who carries in His hand the bow named Sarnga. We have been specifically deputed to take you to the spiritual world".

 

Verse 25: "To achieve Visnuloka is very difficult, but by your austerity you have conquered. Even the great rsis and demigods cannot achieve this position".

 

Now here the Visnudutas are referring, when they say 'the rsis', they are referring to those who follow the devayana path, who go as far as Brahmaloka or who may attain impersonal Brahman. And when they speak of the demigods, they are referring to those who enter the heavenly planets to enjoy. So here the Visnudutas, they are saying that 'we are going to take you beyond that, beyond what is reached by the demigods and also the sages'.

 

/verse 25 continuing/ "Simply to see the supreme abode (the Visnu planet) the sun and moon and all the other planets, stars, lunar mansions and solar systems are circumambulating it. Now please, come: you are welcome to go there".

 

So from the Purport Srila Prabhupada writes: "Even in this material world the so called scientists, philosophers and mental speculators strive to merge into the spiritual sky, but they can never go there. But a devotee, by executing devotional service, not only realizes what the spiritual world actually is, but factually goes there to live an eternal life of bliss and knowledge. The Krsna consciousness movement is so potent that by adopting these principles of life and developing love of God one can very easily go back home, back to Godhead. Here the practical example is the case of Dhruva Maharaja. While the scientist and philosopher go to the moon but are disappointed in their attempts to stay there and live, the devotee makes an easy journey to other planets and ultimately goes back to Godhead. Devotees have no interest in seeing other planets, but while going back to Godhead, they see all of them as passing phases just as one who is going on a distant place passes through many small stations."

 

So here you see the devotee is also traversing that same path, pitryana, devayana, he is seeing all these places flash by, but he is not interested in them. Now, if he is interested in them, you see, if he still has some interest for sense gratification, somewhere in his heart, then he is going to see a place that will captivate him and he will tell the Visnudutas: "Ah, hmm, I think I would like to stop here. Looks very nice". So then he remains within the material world. That's why Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita that those who are not perfect in devotional service they go to the planets of demigods and then they come back to earth, but there they get another chance to take up devotional service. They should have gone back to Godhead but because in the heart there were some hidden desires for sense gratification then seeing all these places go by, they saw that place: "Oh, I didn't the material world could be like this. Well, hmm...looks very nice". So that's why Srila Prabhupada always warned us that even you have a slight tinge of desire for sense gratification you cannot leave this material world, you cannot enter the spiritual world, because Maya will show you just that place which suits your particular, very subtle material desire. And you will become captivated. So therefore we should really try in this human form of life now that we have it and we have this opportunity to perform devotional service, we should really try to rid ourselves by strict practice of sadhana-bhakti, bhakti yoga, we should really try to rid ourselves certainly of all gross, but as well as all subtle fine desires for sense gratification and mental speculation. Mental speculation means the Muni-lokas like the Jnana-loka, Tapoloka and finally Brahmaloka. I think I mentioned before, Srila Prabhupada said there is no sense gratification in these regions, but there is mental speculation, that is the material happiness. There are great sages, they like to think about Vedic knowledge, discuss among themselves, speculate. In this way they remain in the material world.

 

So the devotee is conducted to the Brahmaloka and then beyond. So here, Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.28-30 we hear: "After reaching Satyaloka...", the planet of Brahma, in other words, "...the devotee is specifically able to be incorporated fearlessly by the subtle body in an identity similar to that of the gross body, and one after another he gradually attains stages of existence from earthly to watery, fiery, glowing and airy until he reaches the ethereal stage."

 

So what is being referred to here, as mentioned in this Purport, Purport to this verse, as Srila Prabhupada writes: "One who attains the place...", means the Brahmaloka, "...by dint of devotional service is specifically mentioned here in relation to how he can penetrate into the different coverings of the universe and thus ultimately disclose his spiritual identity in the absolute atmosphere of supreme existence."

 

Verse 29: "The devotee thus surpasses the subtle objects of the different senses like aroma by smelling, the palate by tasting, vision by seeing forms, touch by contacting, the vibrations of the ear by ethereal identification, and the sense organs by material activities."

 

Verse 30: "The devotee thus surpassing the gross and the subtle forms of coverings, enters the plane of egoism. And in that status he merges the material modes of nature (ignorance and passion) in this point of neutralization and thus reaches egoism in goodness. After this all egoism is merged in the mahat-tattva, and he comes to the point of pure self-realization."

 

So he passes through the acit-sakti - all of these layers of the universe and egoism in ignorance, passion and goodness is called in Srimad Bhagavatam acit-sakti. This is mentioned in Canto 7.3.34 - acit-sakti is the material energy of Krsna. So the devotee passes through that and he attains his own spiritual identity.

 

Now comes the next question from the mayavadis' side. The mayavadis they refer to the Upanisads, like for instance Gopala-tapani Upanisad says that when one attains the spiritual destination, when one becomes fully illumined by spiritual knowledge, then he should think "so 'ham", he should think "I am He" or "I am the Lord". So the mayavadis take that to mean that you merge in the existence of the Lord, but actually this sense of "so 'ham" is referring... thinking "I am He" is not referring to merging, becoming one with God but it is actually referring to transcendental ecstasy, ecstasy of devotional love of Krsna, such as that , which is seen in the gopis of Vrndavan. And here is the reference, as I have been saying all along, Srimad Bhagavatam is commentary on Vedanta-sutra so all of these questions that are raised in the Vedanta and the Upanisads and so on, are answered in Srimad Bhagavatam. So from Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10.30.3 we learn:

 

"Because the beloved gopis were absorbed in thoughts of their beloved Krsna their bodies imitated His way of moving and smiling, His way of beholding them, His speech and His other distinctive features. Deeply immersed in thinking of Him and maddened by remembering His pastimes they declared to one another: 'I am Krsna!'".

 

So, you know, when Krsna left for Mathura the gopis of Vraja were alone without His association, then the ecstasy of vipralambha or separation, which Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught is the highest ecstasy of love of Godhead, they begun to enact Krsna's pastimes. This was their Krsna consciousness. They were remembering Krsna's pastimes to such a degree that they were acting them out for one another and thus they were declaring 'I am Krsna' by imitating His pastimes. So this is the Bhagavata explanation of those Upanisadic references, which say the goal is "so 'ham", to think of oneself... yes, you can think of oneself as being Krsna but in the mood of the gopis, in the mood of ecstatic loving separation. That is proper. Not in the mood of the impersonalists. So Bhagavatam explains... that... I have several verses. Bhagavatam explains that when one attains the spiritual world, one attains liberation, then he attains his eternal relationship, loving relationship with Krsna. That is a relationship of devotional service. So the references are, for instance Canto 6.16.25; Canto 9.4 63,64; Canto 9.4.68:

 

/SB 6.16.25/ "Oh, transcendental Lord, who are situated in the topmost planet of the spiritual world, Your two lotus feet are always massaged by a multitude of the best devotees with lotus-bud hands. You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, complete in six opulences. You are the supreme person mentioned in the Purusa-sukta prayers. You are the most perfect, self-realized master of all mystic power. Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto You."

 

So here it is very clearly described that the Supreme Lord lives on the topmost planet Goloka Vrndavana and the devotees who attain them here do not merge in Him but they are engaged in rendering service, for instance they are massaging His lotus feet with their lotus-bud-like hands, or spiritual hands. This similarity between the Lord's lotus feet and the devotees' lotus-bud-like hands are indicating the similarity of their forms. Lord Krsna has His spiritual form and so also do Krsna's devotees. This is very interesting. The Chandogya Upanisad... The Upanisads are very much loved by the mayavadis because the Upanisads are written in language, which is easy to interpret sometimes in different ways. So the Upanisads, Chandogya Upanisad speaks of how the soul rises up... having left the last material body the soul rises up into light, into the jyoti, to the spiritual light and attains its svarupa. So such descriptions are very appealing to the mayavadis, but then that same Chandogya Upanisad goes on to say that in that spiritual realm the soul meets other liberated souls and together with them he enjoys. And different activities are mentioned like laughing and singing and so on. So then this becomes very confusing for the mayavadis. Why do the Upanisads say such things as this? So why - it is clearly said here in Srimad Bhagavatam, clearly explained so that there is no doubt that these liberated souls they are attaining their svarupa in the spiritual world of Krsna, they are receiving a spiritual form and in Krsna's association they are enjoying together. In fact the Lord says, He told the yogi Durvasa, when Durvasa came to the Svetadvipa planet to beg lord Visnu to call off His Sudarsana cakra, so the Lord explained that "Sudarsana is pursuing you because you have offended my devotee and there is really nothing that I can do about that. Because I'm not independent from My devotee, so therefore neither is My Sudarsan cakra. You have offended My devotee so the Sudarsana automatically acts in this way". So the Lord told Durvasa Muni /9.4.63/ that:

 

"I am completely under the control of My devotees. Indeed, I am not at all independent. Because My devotees are completely devoid of material desires, I sit only within the cores of their hearts. What to speak of My devotees, even those who are devotees of My devotees are very dear to Me".

 

Sadhubhir grasta-hrdayo / bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyah. So this last line - bhaktair bhakta-jana- priyah - is indicating for all of our benefit, how anyone of us can become successful in attaining the supreme goal of life - one should just become dear to the devotees of the Lord. Because the Lord says: "My devotees are so dear to Me, I cannot be separated from them. I sit in the cores of their heart and indeed whoever is dear to My devotees they are also dear to Me". So He accepts the bhakta-jana, the followers of devotees, as His own devotees also. So Srila Prabhupada said it is a very rear thing to become a Vaisnava. So therefore we should try to be servants of the Vaisnavas and then for us this exalted path of liberation, of going back home back to Godhead is opened. Then the Lord goes on to say /9.4.64/:

 

"O best of the brahmanas, without saintly persons for whom I am the only destination, I do not desire to enjoy My transcendental bliss and My supreme opulences".

 

So the Lord does not... He does not find even the spiritual world attractive if there would be no devotees there. That is actually why there is a spiritual world - so that the Lord can receive the service of His devotees there. Otherwise without devotees Krsna has no interest in opulence, His spiritual opulence. And this is also very interesting because, as we have been telling, we have been explaining from Srimad Bhagavatam what is the material world, what is the material energy - it is simply the Lord's spiritual energy but devoid of devotion. The material world is a place where the non-devotees go. So therefore Krsna is not very much interested here. So actually the difference between the spiritual world and material world is simply the difference between where Krsna is enjoying and where He is not enjoying. So the spiritual world is also here, wherever the devotees are serving Krsna and adding to His transcendental pleasure by their service. Then Krsna is present... just like this holy dhama of Mayapur, this is the spiritual world. Why? Because here the devotees of the Lord serve Him, give pleasure to His senses. That is why this is the spiritual world. No other reason.

 

So I think, now you can all understand why Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita and why it is also stated in Srimad Bhagavatam, that the devotees are not bewildered by these two paths, the paths that are followed by the pravrtti-margis and the nivrtti-margis. I think now that becomes clear. The devotee he is also traversing that same path but he is not interested in any of the stops on the way that attract the pravrtti-margis, or karma-kandis, and the nivrtti-margis, or the jnana-kandis. Therefore he is not bewildered by these two paths, that is the sense of this word. And this is also why devotees do not worship demigods. This is also why Krsna explains to Arjuna yanti deva-vrata devan - those who worship the demigods they go the demigods, but those who worship Me... He says those who worship the pitrs they go to the pitrs, those who worship the ghosts go to the ghosts, those who worship Me come to Me. The devotees don't worship the demigods because the devotees don't want to end up on some Devaloka, somewhere. They worship only Krsna Himself or Krsna's representatives, the Yamadutas... I'm sorry (aside: These snakes again...)... the Visnudhutas they come to personally conduct the devotee back home back to Godhead. So are there any questions? Yes?

 

(Devotee: Could you clarify what happens at the time of death to persons who live in the holy dhama but are not good devotees and are engaged in smoking bidi and this and that? What happens to those who are not devotees?)

 

The thing is that everyone who lives in the holy dhama is a devotee of some kind or other. They may not be such good devotees but they couldn't be here if they were not devotees. So they are devotees. All those who live here, even the Muslims, they know who is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. So that means they are very, very exalted souls. They know who is Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they know what is Hare Krsna Maha-mantra, they know what is sankirtana. They may not practice but they know. They have known from their very birth. So how much more exalted they are than people from countries outside India who don't know anything. Or even areas in India outside of this holy dhama. They don't know who is Lord Caitanya. But still they are engaged in materialistic activities therefore they have to take birth in the dhama again as animals. And then after that birth as animals they are liberated they go back home back to Godhead. Yes?

 

(Devotee: In Bhagavad-gita it is described that by karma yoga and jnana yoga it is possible to achieve the Supersoul. So how to achieve the Brahman realization is easy to understand but what exactly is the step from Brahman realization to Paramatma realization?)

 

Yes, so, for those who follow karma kanda they are worshiping Visnu but as the universal form. Therefore they are interested in ascending up through planetary systems. They are interested in the sense gratification that is available in the Visvarupa. So their conception of Vsnu is Visnu as Visvarupa, universal form. And on the jnana yoga path... well, actually to attain impersonal Brahman, since the Brahman is the effulgence of the Supersoul, in that way they also attain the Supersoul. But more advanced than brahmajnanis or the brahmavadis are the paramatma-vadis, who actually meditate upon the form of the Lord in the heart. This is the higher stage of jnana yoga - the mystic yoga system. So they are interested in mystic powers or they are interested in isvara-sayuja, it is called, to actually merge into the form of Supersoul. This is also not devotional service. It's a mystical process.

 

(Devotee: Is it right to say that to meditate about the inner spiritual atmosphere, the self, is also worship of the Supersoul because the service (.............?). Therefore they have achieved the Supersoul. Is this that like step between because the jnana yogis (.............?) Brahman realization then he goes further to Supersoul?)

 

Well, the via media are the rays of Brahman because these rays emanate from the Supersoul so they first of all meditate upon that - the light - and also you will see in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lord Caitanya is explaining in His explanations of the atmarama verse that in santa-rasa there is some thirteen stages, He explains. The lowest platform are those who just merge in the light of brahmajyoti and the highest platform are those who have penetrated the light and have realized the form of the Lord. All of this is santa-rasa. And the santa-rasa is the highest stage attainable by the jnanis. So there are these different levels. So the santa-rasa, that neutral relationship with the Lord, is also seen in those who just entered the brahmajyoti. That also turns a kind of santa-rasa - lowest stage. So the jnanis, you know, they may be on different stages of advancement in the santa-rasa.

 

(Devotee: When one begins to worship the Supersoul he begins to enter in dasya-rasa...)

 

Yes, but this will only be possible by the association of pure devotees. He learns that from the devotees. Otherwise by this mystic process he may approach the Supersoul but his motivation again is for mystic powers or for liberation. And that the Lord will give him... It is said - the Lord gives this very easily. Of course He gives that very easily after they have performed so many hard austerities. Once they have attained His darsan then they very easily they can get all mystic powers or they can merge into Him. But what is so special about merging in Visnu when we all do that at the end of the cosmic manifestation anyway, so that's not a very great thing. Yes?

 

(Devotee: You told about (.............?)arguments used by Blavatska. From where they took these arguments?)

 

I think you are talking about their belief in the continual elevation of the soul, that's what I was referring to. They believe that after the human being dies, his soul must be promoted upwards automatically. (Devotee: From where is this idea?) Yes, as I said, this is based on a verse from a Upanisad, Kausitaki Upanisad which says all those who depart the human body they attain the moon, they will reach the moon. But I explained what this meant. "All those" means all those who are following the Vedic path, either karma, jnana or even bhakti paths, they will attain the moon. Of course the jnanis and the bhaktas will go beyond. The karmis will stay there. So that's the reference. All those who are practicing Vedic dharma but those who are not - they will go downward, they will fall down. This is the mistake they make. Nowadays people are engaged in sinful activities but these 'new age', you know, mystic psychics, whatever they are, misleaders, they say: "Oh, doesn't matter what you do because automatically after you die your soul will be promoted". There is talk of the next stage, the next platform, the next dimension or whatever.

 

(Devotee: There is misunderstanding of this verse?) But this is very ancient misunderstanding. Yes?

 

(Devotee: It is said a devotee can get the mercy of Lord Caitanya in the time of death. He takes...)

 

Well, you see, to enter Krsna's pastimes one must be trained. So one actually passes through all that but one attains Krsna, association of Krsna, in the universe where He is displaying His lila. One takes birth there... /break/ ....give up their bodies in anxiety of separation. What that means is that they are held back from joining Krsna by certain very subtle attachments. What are these attachments? These are actually attachments to piety. Because they are women, they are at home with their husbands so they have what is called stri-dharma, a dharma of pious womanhood, which they are attached to, which holds them back. Krsna says sarva dharman parityaja - you have to give up all dharmas to be with Me. So even piety you have to give up , material piety. So in this way that attachment is burnt up because although the body is held back, out of anxiety to be with Krsna, they leave that body and then they join Krsna in a spiritual body. So in this way they are trained up in that, we can say, final birth, in giving up even the most subtle, subtle, subtle, fine attachments and thus they associate with Krsna without any reservation. And then they go to Goloka with Krsna from there. (Devotee...) Yeah, because they have to leave this universe to go to the universe... in whichever universe Krsna is. So they are passing the same path. Yes?

 

(Devotee: The spiritual masters have their different many disciples. If these disciples have different rasas, what is their relationship with the spiritual master? Or perhaps the answer is that all these disciples have the same rasa as their spiritual master?)

 

So the answer is that the spiritual master is Krsna's representative and Krsna empowers him to teach his disciple how to serve Krsna no matter what his rasa is. So therefore we find in Bhaktivinoda Thakura's book Jaiva-dharma that a spiritual master had two disciples of two different rasas and the same spiritual master appeared to these disciples when they were liberated in the form of their rasa - in the form of cowherd boy and in the form of gopi. The same spiritual master to the one disciple who had rasa of cowherd bow the spiritual master appeared as cowherd boy and to the disciple who had rasa as gopi that same spiritual master appeared to him as gopi. So it doesn't matter. The spiritual master is empowered by Krsna to instruct his disciples, he is given full power. So regardless of what the spiritual master's own rasa may be, he can instruct his disciples in any rasa and get them situated. Because he is Krsna's representative. Yes?

 

(Devotee...) No, there is no contradiction - the Supersoul illuminates the path to hell, that's all you need to understand. That path to hell is illuminated and he is dragged along that path by the Yamadutas. Just like for the devotees the path to Brahmaloka and beyond is illuminated and he is conducted along the path by the Visnudutas. Yes?

 

(Devotee: It is said that the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple is eternal. What does it mean because eternal also means without beginning?)

 

Yes, the answer to that question is very easy. In Bhagavad-gita Purport Srila Prabhupada says that Krsna is the real spiritual master. So your relationship with Krsna is eternal, without beginning and the spiritual master who comes to save you he is sent by Krsna, he is Krsna's representative. So it is stated jive saksad nahi tata guru caitya rupa - the guru is actually within the heart but the jiva in maya cannot understand him therefore siksa guru haite habe mahanta-svarupa, therefore the siksa guru comes in the form of mahanta, devotee. So in that sense your relationship with the mahant, devotee, has its beginning. Brahmanda brahmite kona bhagyavan jiva / guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija - there is a time when you are bhagyavan, fortunate to have the association of a pure devotee. And that has its beginning in time. But who is that devotee - he is just a representative of Krsna and your relationship with Krsna, the caitya-guru, the Lord in the heart, is eternal. Therefore... and also another point is since Krsna and Krsna's devotee cannot be separate therefore your relationship with Krsna's devotee is also eternal. But there is one time when Krsna's devotee comes to you and says: "All right, stop this nonsense, let's go back home, back to Godhead, Krsna is waiting for you now". Yes?

 

(Devotee...)

 

Well, the thing was that in the case of Ajamila, because he chanted the holy name of the Lord... you see, that he has been taken off by the Yamadutas , that is the automatic reaction of his sinful activities, that is the result of his sinful activities, in other words, that is the working of Maya. But because he chanted the holy name of Narayana therefore this machinery of the material nature was suddenly stopped by the appearance of the Visnudutas. And they told Ajamila that 'Because you have chanted the holy name therefore it is not your time to leave your body'. This was the result, not that any path was illuminated. The Yamadutas thought 'Oh, we should take him'. But the Visnudutas said: "No, he has chanted the holy name of Lord". And they told Ajamila: "Now you stay in your body some time longer. Now you should become a proper devotee so that when you leave your body at the proper time in the future then you can go back home back to Godhead". So after that time Ajamila became very serious and he practiced Krsna consciousness nicely, became pure devotee and then went back home, back to Godhead. Yes?

 

(Devotee...)

 

No, the sinful reactions or desires are there in the heart, but what has been purified, what has been relieved of, are the very heavy, gross reactions to them. But the seeds of material desires are there. It's like this, like from a seed a plant grows, then winter comes and the plant withers, all the leaves fall off. It seems the plant has died, some flowers they completely wither away, but then when the spring comes, from the same seed the flower grows new. So like that, from a sinful desire a sinful reaction grows up and then it can be cut gradually, withered away or cut away by suffering reactions as one must do when one passes through the species of life. So then the reaction seems to have gone. But the seed is still there and it can grow up again in that human form.

 

(Devotee...)

 

Yes, what happens is all the matter of association, if you associate only with sinful people, then by that association the sinful desire-seeds are watered and they grow. But if you associate with the pure devotee then the bhakti-lata-bija, the seed of devotional service is planted in the heart and by association and practice that is watered and the devotional creeper grows.

 

(Devotee: When one descends from the celestial, the higher planets does one immediately attain a human form of life or one can enter animal species?)

 

Well, we have heard that the soul actually enters first of all the bodies of plants. And then these plants are eaten by different living entities and then the soul in this way passes from the male into the womb of the female and receives a body. So plants are also eaten by lower creatures too. So there is some possibility that one may fall down from heaven and then end up in the womb of a mother cow or horse or something else. The chance is there. It's all adjusted by, again, his residual pious or impious activities. Even when he goes to heaven and comes back, there is some residual, subtle pious / impious reactions. So depending on what is there he may take birth as human or also as animal. Yes?

 

(Devotee: In the material world devotees have positions of high and low, like spiritual master, temple president and so on. So when we go in the spiritual world will we find the same kind of high and low positions?)

 

Srila Prabhupada said that we will have our ISKCON in the spiritual world so everything will be the same. What we have to see, what we have to learn here is that actually there is no high or low. Everything in Krsna consciousness is absolute, everyone is connected with Krsna through devotional service. Therefore this sense of high and low is actually only a mundane idea. There are different positions in the spiritual world, the devotees have different relationships with Krsna but all are Krsna conscious, all are serving and loving Krsna and Krsna is reciprocating with all of them according to their love. So therefore Srila Prabhupada he was very displeased when he saw that some of his disciples in Los Angeles were studying Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, the prayers of the gopis to Krsna, the descriptions of the gopis' lila, madhurya-lila, with Krsna, they were only reading this and they were trying to cultivate some gopi-bhava, they called it, some ecstasy of the gopis. And Prabhupada was very displeased with this. He said: "Oh, they think that by becoming gopis then they will be better than mother Yasoda". This is a material conception. Just like in the material world one wants to be promoted, he gets job in some company and he is thinking: "Let me work, work, work and get promoted to higher salary, higher position, higher, higher, higher!". So it is not like that. Whether one becomes gopi or Krsna's mother or friend of Krsna, it is simply according to love, the flavour of love, it has nothing to do with higher or lower. And that flavour of love you will find, whatever it may be, absolutely satisfying to you because Krsna will relate with you, you will relate with Krsna in just the way that you feel most natural. Of course in Vrndavan, in Goloka Vrndavan, the devotees they even change their rasa according to the need but this is very esoteric, but Prabhupada referred to this. There is also a story in account in the literature of the Goswamis how one cowherd boy... because Krsna wanted to take bath in the Yamuna river, but Yamuna river was far away so this cowherd boy took the form of a river so that Krsna could bathe in him. And then when Krsna came out of that river, Krsna needed to dry Himself, so the cowherd boy took the form of a towel so that Krsna could dry Himself. So these things are going on. The relationship with Krsna in Goloka Vrndavana is spontaneous. The devotees there are looking for the opportunities to serve Krsna so in this way the rasas change but every devotee has one principle rasa that he likes best. So the fact is whatever that rasa is that is what you... you like that best because you can associate and serve Krsna in the way that you like best. So there is no question of someone who is in a cowherd boy-rasa thinking: "Oh, this is boring, I'm tired of taking lunch with Krsna. I want to dance with Krsna in rasa-lila. So I want to be a gopi.". The devotees never think like that, they don't think this way. They only think 'What does Krsna want from me? So Krsna wants me to be cowherd boy, yes, I feel that's best, because I find by serving Krsna this way that is my natural position'. Or Krsna wants me to be gopi, or Krsna wants me to be something else. And even then sometimes the opportunity is there to be something else: "Oh, now Krsna wants this. All right there is none else with that rasa right now, all right, so I'll do it". Just like in ISKCON, you mentioned temple president or guru, but sometimes they also are cleaning the floor because it's Krsna's service. You see, when Krsna's temple has to be cleaned we don't call for the (bangies?), you know, this class of sweepers who are considered very low class. We don't have some (bangie?) class standing by, untouchable class: "Hey, you, now clean the temple.". The devotees clean the temple. We don't think this is low. This is Krsna's service, everything is absolute. Yes?

 

(Devotee...)

 

It's the same - a fivefold sacrifice which is mentioned in the Upanisads. Sacrifice which conducts one... This is the pitryana process, fivefold sacrifice, fivefold offerings, by which one leaves this human body, attains the heavenly world, enjoys there, comes back down and attains a human birth in Varnasrama culture. (Devotee...) Well, they come down by the way of the rain and the rain is of course generated by sacrifice, by the sacrifice of the persons on earth.

All right, a few more questions.

 

(Devotee...)

 

I have never been in a library in Jagannatha Puri. There is Vrndavana Research Institute in Vrndavana where they are keeping all the books of the Goswamis but the major books, the major writings of the Goswamis are available, of course in Sanskrit and Bengali, but they are preserved in this Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya and some are being translated by the BBT. BBT has a... now a plan for translating some important philosophical works of the Goswamis. Other devotees have also translated but I cannot recommend their accuracy although they are there, there is the Krsna Institute from Los Angeles, there are many volumes of books, Goswamis' literature, but as I said, the accuracy may not be that good. Yes?

 

(Devotee...)

 

But as we've heard, we read a verse from Srimad Bhagavatam, they come up to lower species until they achieve human birth and then in the human form of life they have choice if they follow Vedic injunctions, either karma-khanda, jnana-khanda or bhakti yoga, they will be promoted. If they neglect Vedic injunctions and again are sinful they will again fall down to hell. Yeah?

 

(Devotee...)

 

Yes. So the subtle body contains the subtle elements and these subtle elements are actually referring to the... they are also seen in the covering of the universe, these are subtle elements. So for the subtle body, or for the soul rather, to pass through the layers of the universe then he has to relinquish bit by bit these aspects of his subtle body. They are merged into each layer, all the elements are seen in these layers. (Devotee: It's simultaneously by going through?) Yes, by going through, otherwise he cannot go through. So within every layer there is a Deity also. This is described in Brhad Bhagavatamrta. The presiding Deity of the watery layer is Matsya and there is a presiding Deity of the fiery and so on, mind, all of the presiding Deities are form of Visnu. So passing beyond for a devotee simply means to worship these forms and get Their blessings. So they bless the devotee by removing attachment for that element so that he can go beyond. Yes, mataji?

 

(Devotee...)

 

I haven't understood the complete question because I didn't hear everything you said.

 

Yes...

 

(Devotee...)

 

...yes...

 

(Devotee...)

 

...yes, one who is liberated within the body is called jivan-mukta. So jivan-mukta, as explained by Baladeva Vidyabhusana, that is a liberated Vaisnava. A pure devotee of the Lord lives within this body to serve Krsna only. So he is not in any way...his consciousness is not in any way confined by this body, he is not attached to it. Actually within his heart he is in the spiritual world, he is with Krsna. And he is seeing Krsna's eternal pastimes within his heart. So he is not actually in the material world. But he has a body by which he preaches. So he is called jivan-mukta. And the other kind of moksa or mukti which is attained by one who is becoming liberated from the body, that's called videha-mukti. That means giving up the body, the conditioned body, giving it up. So this jivan-mukta is only available to Vaisnavas. The mayavadis or the impersonalists, the jnana yogis, they strive for liberation but it's only this videha-mukti. Because to them to have a material body means...you know, if you have a body that means you are conditioned. Because they have no idea about the transcendental purpose of this body. That this body can be engaged here in Krsna's service. Understand? Yes?

 

(Devotee...)

 

He wants to know if there is any correlation between the presiding Deities in the layers of the universe and the incarnations or Deities described in the tenth Cantos of Srimad Bhagavatam. Well, there is... you cannot make a correlation from Canto to layer like that: First Canto - first layer, Second Canto - second...That's speculation. But of course the Deity forms of the Lord are described in the various Cantos of Bhagavatam and how to serve them is described. So a devotee he knows when he sees the Lord how to worship the Lord and receive the Lord's blessing. So that's what you learn from Srimad Bhagavatam. (Devotee...) But he is doing that automatically, he sees the form of the Lord or the Lord's pure devotee because some... in some layers like in pradhan there is mula-prakrti, Durga devi, Durga devi as the acit-sakti, we mentioned, the Lord's own potency of acit, ignorance. But she is a devotee, so he respects, the devotee respects Durga devi as Vaisnavi and then she is satisfied: "OK, you can go". And then after he meets Lord Siva, Lord Siva in the realm of Brahman and when Lord Siva sees that this person who is now coming is not a mayavadi, is not a yogi but is a devotee he is very happy and he begins to chant and dance: "OK, you go, go on to Vaikuntha. Don't stay here". He will actually tell the devotee, as Sanatana Goswami describes in Brhad Bhagavatamrta, he'll tell the devotee: "This place is not for you. Go on." Yes? (Devotee...) Yes, but Matsya... Matsya has, as it is explained by Srila Prabhupada in a letter to Ekayani dd in 1970, he said these forms as Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, they assume these forms as fish, tortoise, boar in the material world as their lila but in the spiritual world.../break/

 

So in the spiritual world we are speaking of the Personality of Godhead, Visnu, one Personality of Godhead in different manifestations. Here in the material world these forms of the Lord expand in His particular pastime forms as a fish, as a boar and so on, for some particular lila but these are expansions of the Lila-purusottama, Prabhupada says, Krsna in His different pastime-forms. That's what Prabhupada said in this letter.

 

It's getting late... Four minutes left... Whose question is most important? (laughs) He says his question is more important than your. So all right, we will listen to your question.

 

(Devotee: It's stated that if a devotee attains success in his devotional service then fourteen generations of his...)

 

Descendants.

 

(Devotee: Yeah...and ...)

 

Ancestors.

 

(Devotee:...they also attain liberation. Does it regard...)

 

What a question! You call this important? (Devotee: I'm asking in regard of my Grandfather...)

 

Obviously it means on the both sides.

 

(Devotee...)

 

Anyway (laughs). Yes, in another place Srila Prabhupada says ten generations back, ten generations forth, instead of fourteen. You can ask so many questions like this but the main thing is that those who are... Krsna consciousness is so powerful that those who are linked by karma to that devotee and so 'linked by karma' means on mother's side as well as father's side. There is karmic chain. So those who are linked then the both chains of karma are purified. Whether ten generations or fourteen, or this, or that... That's the point you must understand.

All right, I'm not convinced that there are anymore important questions. And it's one minute to twelve, so we will stop. And the snakes are starting to move (laugh). So we will stop now.

 

Srila Prabhupada ki jaya!

Srimad Bhagavatam ki jaya!

Gaura-premanande Hari-haribol !