niyamas of bhakti yoga

[Guest guest]

The purpose of this discussion is to learn more about the niyamas of bhakti yoga. The discussions should be based on the basis of the following granthas

 

1. "Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu" of Sri Rupa Gosvami

2. "Prema-bhakti-candrika" of Sri Narottama Dasa,

3. "Raga-vartma-candrika" of Sri Visvanatha Cakravarti

4. Any other work of gaudiya vaishnavism which is in line with the teachings of Caitanya Mahaprabhu and the six gosvamis

 

However, the conclusions of gaudiya vaishnavism are to be accepted only it is not contrary to sruti. So where the gaudiya vaishnava tradition contradicts with other traditional understanding one has to establish based on the sruti. No passionate discussions are allowed or personal criticism. It should be objective and based on sastras alone.

[raga]

Let us open the discussion with a famous shloka on sharanagati, surrender unto the Lord, as it appears in the Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa of Gopala Bhatta Gosvamin.

<blockquote><center>AnukUlyasya saGkalpaH

prAtikUlyasya varjanam

rakSiSyatIti vizvAso

goptRtve varaNaM tathA

Atma-nikSepa-kArpaNye

SaD-vidhA zaraNAgatiH</center>

"A desire for the favorable, rejection of the unfavorable, the acceptance of the Lord as one's only protector in this world, as well as one's sole maintainer, self-surrender and a feeling of wretchedness; this is the six-fold surrender."</blockquote>

It is important to first acquaint oneself with the basics before making a leap into the confidential practices of the Gaudiya tradition, such as the ones briefly discussed in the thread "Siddha Pranali", to enable a proper understanding thereof -- which in part provoked this thread to begin.

 

The favorable and the unfavorable, or that which is to be adopted and to be renounced, have been discussed by Rupa Gosvamin in his Sri Upadesamrta, verses two to three:

<blockquote><center>atyAhAraH prayAsaz ca

prajalpo niyamAgrahaH

jana-saGgaz ca laulyaM ca

SaDbhir bhaktir vinazyati</center>

 

"Collecting or eating excessively, endeavoring for the needless, aimless conversations, adherence to rules without a purpose or whimsical rejection of rules, association with worldly men and greed for the mundane; by these six devotion perishes."

<center>

utsAhAn nizcayAd dhairyAt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanAt

saGga-tyAgAt sato vRtteH

SaDbhir bhaktiH prasidhyati</center>

"Enthusiasm (for devotion), confidence (that one day the Lord will bestow His mercy), firmness in determination (despite obstacles), execution of proper acts (conducive for devotion), rejection of mundane association, and adherence to the path of the saints; by these six, devotion is perfected."</blockquote>

 

In these two verses, Sri Rupa Gosvamipada gives a comprehensive outline of the yama and niyama to be adopted on the path of bhakti.

 

I trust these principles would be universally acceptable to sampradayika Vaishnavas regardless of their tradition.

 

There is much to be elaborated on these two sutras of Rupa Gosvamin on the specifics of devotional practice.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

Let us open the discussion with a famous shloka on sharanagati, surrender unto the Lord, as it appears in the Hari-Bhakti-Vilasa of Gopala Bhatta Gosvamin.

<blockquote><center>AnukUlyasya saGkalpaH

prAtikUlyasya varjanam

rakSiSyatIti vizvAso

goptRtve varaNaM tathA

Atma-nikSepa-kArpaNye

SaD-vidhA zaraNAgatiH</center>

"A desire for the favorable, rejection of the unfavorable, the acceptance of the Lord as one's only protector in this world, as well as one's sole maintainer, self-surrender and a feeling of wretchedness; this is the six-fold surrender."</blockquote>

It is important to first acquaint oneself with the basics before making a leap into the confidential practices of the Gaudiya tradition, such as the ones briefly discussed in the thread "Siddha Pranali", to enable a proper understanding thereof -- which in part provoked this thread to begin.

 

The favorable and the unfavorable, or that which is to be adopted and to be renounced, have been discussed by Rupa Gosvamin in his Sri Upadesamrta, verses two to three:

<blockquote><center>atyAhAraH prayAsaz ca

prajalpo niyamAgrahaH

jana-saGgaz ca laulyaM ca

SaDbhir bhaktir vinazyati</center>

 

"Collecting or eating excessively, endeavoring for the needless, aimless conversations, adherence to rules without a purpose or whimsical rejection of rules, association with worldly men and greed for the mundane; by these six devotion perishes."

<center>

utsAhAn nizcayAd dhairyAt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanAt

saGga-tyAgAt sato vRtteH

SaDbhir bhaktiH prasidhyati</center>

"Enthusiasm (for devotion), confidence (that one day the Lord will bestow His mercy), firmness in determination (despite obstacles), execution of proper acts (conducive for devotion), rejection of mundane association, and adherence to the path of the saints; by these six, devotion is perfected."</blockquote>

 

In these two verses, Sri Rupa Gosvamipada gives a comprehensive outline of the yama and niyama to be adopted on the path of bhakti.

 

I trust these principles would be universally acceptable to sampradayika Vaishnavas regardless of their tradition.

 

There is much to be elaborated on these two sutras of Rupa Gosvamin on the specifics of devotional practice.

Perfect start Raga.

 

I agree that these verses need more careful study and we should go gradually. As I do not have Upadsamrta here with me, could could you please explain the commentary of Srila Prabhupada and that of pUrvAchAryas.

 

And purely for the purpose of learning, did Rupa Gosvami base his works on some other sastra ?

 

 

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

Perfect start Raga.

 

I agree that these verses need more careful study and we should go gradually. As I do not have Upadsamrta here with me, could could you please explain the commentary of Srila Prabhupada and that of pUrvAchAryas.

 

And purely for the purpose of learning, did Rupa Gosvami base his works on some other sastra ?

 

 

Ram, the six Gosvamins certainly based their works on shastra, mainly the Gita, Puranas and Upanishads. There is a famous stanza of Srinivas Acharya, their follower, in their praise (from the Sad-Gosvamy-Astakam):<blockquote><center>nAnA-zAstra-vicAraNaika-nipuNau sad-dharma-saMsthApakau

lokAnAM hita-kAriNau tri-bhuvane mAnyau zaraNyAkarau

rAdhA-kRSNa-padAravinda-bhajanAnandena mattAlikau

vande rUpa-sanAtanau raghu-yugau zrI-jIva-gopAlakau

</center>

"Considering the various shastras with unique expertise, they established the essential, eternal religious principles. Benefactories of the three worlds, they are worthy of honour and taking shelter of. They were intoxicated with the ecstacy of worshiping the lotus feet of Sri Radha and Krishna, and unto them, Rupa, Sanatana, the two Raghus (Raghunatha Bhatta and Raghunatha Dasa), Sri Jiva and Gopala, I offer my obeisances."</blockquote>

There are particularly two works from the Gosvamis which are prominently filled with scriptural references, namely the Sat Sandarbha of Jiva and the Hari Bhakti Vilasa of Gopala Bhatta.

 

Naturally the esoteric details of worship on the path of raganuga were not discussed in detail in the classical shastras compiled by Vedavyasa, but nevertheless the framework of authority in all of their works is derived thereof. On more general points of practice, you will at times see frequent references to earlier sources, but in rasa-filled poetry, this is often not the practice; you may consider the Gita Govinda of Jayadeva for instance -- Jayadeva could have easily quoted from the Bhagavata to "establish" the truth of a certain pastime, but this would have not been conducive to the natural flow and expression of the poem.

 

I shall get back to you in regards to the commentaries of these two verses on yama and niyama later today. I will do my best to present both the essence of the commentaries of the purvacharyas, as well as relevant references from the Gita and the Bhagavata Purana. In fact, I would like to present verses from the two aforementioned shastras on each of the twelve aspects mentioned by Rupa. Let us see whether I succeed or not, I have not specifically researched this before.

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-05-2002).]

[raga]

Upadesamrta #2, atyAhAraH -- "Collecting or eating excessively".

 

Purvacharya-tikas:

<blockquote>

Radha Raman Gosvami, upadeza-prakAzikA-TIkA: "The word atyAhAra means to eat more than required or to accumulate material objects."

 

Kedarnath Bhaktivinoda, pIyUSa-varSiNI-vRtti: "The word atyahara is a compound word formed by combination of the prefix ati, which means too much or excessively, with the word ahara, which means to seize, grasp or consume for one?s own enjoyment. Excessive enjoyment of sense objects through any one of the senses and the endeavour to accumulate in excess of one?s requirements are known as atyahara.

 

Devotees who have renounced householder life are forbidden to accumulate material goods. Grhastha Vaisnavas must acquire goods sufficient for their maintenance, but if they accumulate beyond their needs it is known as atyahara. Those who are eager to perform bhajana should not accumulate worldly goods like materialistic sense enjoyers." </blockquote>

Here Bhaktivinoda makes an important point in regards to a balanced application of the principle of avoiding atyAhAra. Each individual should exercise this principle in accordance with his respective social status, either as a householder or a renunciate.

 

The renunciate class of men are not allowed to consume delicious foods or to accumulate things beyond their minimum bodily maintenance. For the householder class of men, more intimately involved in the society, there is more concession in this regard, though self-control is obviously a virtue among all human beings. Whereas for the renunciant, accumulating facilities in securing the future would be regarded improper, on the contrary for a householder, not doing so would be regarded improper in regards to his dharma of maintaining the family, the family's daily worship of Sri Vigraha, the healthy raising up of virtuous children and so forth.

 

The shastra also advocates a balanced approach:

<blockquote>Srimad Bhagavata, 1.2.10:

 

<center>kAmasya nendriya-prItir

lAbho jIveta yAvatA

jIvasya tattva-jijJAsA

nArtho yaz ceha karmabhiH</center>

 

"Desires should not be for sensual gratification, but for that which is required for self-preservation and inquiries into the truth about the purpose of the individual's life. Nothing but this should be the goal of one's works."

 

Also in the Bhagavad Gita, 6.16-17:

 

<center>nAty-aznatas ?tu yogo ?sti

na caikAntam anaznataH

na cAti-svapna-zIlasya

jAgrato naiva cArjuna

 

yuktAhAra-vihArasya

yukta-ceSTasya karmasu

yukta-svapnAvabodhasya

yogo bhavati duHkha-hA</center>

 

"O Arjuna, There is no yoga for the one who excessively eats, or for the one who overtly abstains from eating, nor is there yoga for the one who excessively sleeps, or who does not sleep enough.

 

He who is regulated in his eating, recreation, maintenance, duties, sleep and wakefulness, by his yoga the miseries of life will perish."</blockquote>

 

From the above we may observe that considerations of proper observance of niyama are largely individual, and that which is proper niyama for one may be detrimental for the other. As we say, "One man's food is another's poison".

 

Therefore the proper observance of niyama is to be sorted out between the guru and the shishya, to facilitate safe spiritual growth. The tendency has been at times to socially impose a certain standard of niyamas upon each and every individual, and this has proven itself a detrimental practice -- without going into case examples in this connection. It would take another thread to discuss the social and spiritual consequences of improper application of niyama.

 

The commentary of Bhaktivinoda sums everything up in all of its briefness in a very crisp manner. Would that be sufficient for the first section of yama-niyama?

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-05-2002).]

[Guest guest]

The following question arises :

 

Are the niyamas to be followed decided by the varnashrama/social status or stage of devotion ?

 

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

The following question arises :

 

Are the niyamas to be followed decided by the varnashrama/social status or stage of devotion?

The social status naturally gives an outline for it, but one's eligibility in terms of devotion is the essential factor in determining the details of proper observance, since it is the path of bhakti we pursue.

 

Actually we might do well in splitting the yamas and niyamas in two sections: 1. Those related with the proper balance of the body and the mind; and 2. Those related with the cultivation of bhakti within the soul.

 

The first section acts as a platform to facilitate the second. The first is more dependent on one's social position, and the second on one's devotional eligibility.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by ram:

The following question arises :

 

 

 

 

Genrally my understanding has been that niyamas are for regulating the body and the mind. This is interesting.

 

Can this be substantiated by the sastras ?

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-20-2002).]

[raga]

Ram: Genrally my understanding has been that niyamas are for regulating the body and the mind. This is interesting.

 

Can this be substantiated by the sastras ?

You are right -- mainly the yama and niyama, as often understood in relation with the practice of astanga-yoga for instance, are for regulating the body and the mind.

 

I am here taking the literal, broader meaning of yama and niyama, as "things not to be done" and "things to be done". In this sense both levels of consideration (body/mind and soul) are subject to the influence of yama-niyama, either directly or indirectly.

 

Ultimately all yama-niyama boils down to Vishnu-smarana. This is evident from Padma-purana, Brhad-sahasra-nama-stotram:

<blockquote><center>smartavyaH satataM viSNur vismartavyo na jAtucit

sarve vidhi-niSedhAH syur etayor eva kiGkarAH</center>

 

"To always remember Vishnu, and to never forget Him -- all the injunctions and prohibitions are servants of this principle."</blockquote>

 

All vidhi and niSedhA -- or yama and niyama -- on the path of bhakti effect the spirit soul. Those injunctions meant for regulating the body and the mind are an indirect factor in influencing the soul in the capacity of facilitating acts which directly influence it, such as Vishnu-smarana.

 

A body and mind - related niyama in itself can never yield bhakti. This is evident from the statement of Jada Bharata to King Rahugana in the 5th skandha of the Bhagavata, 12.12:

<blockquote><center>rahUgaNaitat tapasA na yAti

na cejyayA nirvapaNAd gRhAd vA

na cchandasA naiva jalAgni-sUryair

vinA mahat-pAda-rajo-'bhiSekam</center>

 

"O Rahugana, it [understanding of Bhagavan] is not revealed by penance, sacrifice, renunciation of the world, household life, study of the Vedic hymns, or by austerities in the midst of water, fire and sun -- without bathing in the foot-dust of the great souls."</blockquote>

To draw a bridge from here to an example of a lack of observance of niyama directly harmful for the spirit soul and bhakti, let us consider "jana-saGgah" from the sutra of Rupa Gosvamin -- "The association of mundane men".

 

In the Gita (2.62) it is told, saGgAt saJjAyate kAmaH, from association desires evolve. Allowing the mind to associate with affection with mundane men, desires averse to devotion are born. Since desire is ultimately an expression of the spirit, though manifest through the mind, there is a direct averse influence from one spirit soul to another, which affects the growth of bhakti in a negative way. I trust the point is clear without presenting several references from the shastra on the averse effects of mundane association, though they are at my disposal if you so desire.

 

Items from which the mind is to be withdrawn exist also within the realm of spirit. This would lead us to a discussion on the realm of ekanta-bhakti, or exclusive devotion, and items conducive and detrimental for it, to which I have hinted at my earlier posting on the previous thread in regards to the five-fold classification of Visvanatha.

[Guest guest]

Raga, let me apologize for very slow participation which might be making it boring for you.

 

I thought following the niyamas (of bhakti yoga), one becomes self-realized (attains svarupa) by the causeless grace of the Lord. Niyamas themselves are meant for detaching us from the material world and keeping us on the path of spiritual progress.

 

Please elaborate on the niyamas for the soul and niyamas for the body-subtle/gross. Is there any sastric evidence on niyamas for the soul ? Please clarify if I understood your statements wrongly.

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-07-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-07-2002).]

[raga]

Some definitions to begin with:

 

Niyamas for the body and mind on the path of bhakti -- restraints, neglect of which will be harmful for the equilibrium of the body and the mind, thus causing hindrance on the path of sadhana;

 

Niyamas for the soul -- restraints, neglect of which will have a direct influence on the soul instead of effecting it through their influence on the body and the mind.

 

Having understood that in the case of an embodied soul, everything will influence body, mind and soul, we should understand the above definitions based on their main object of detrimental influence.

 

Examples of the latter with a short explanation:

 

1. Offending a Vaishnava

 

The primary destruction will be in the bhakti-bhava of the sadhaka, which is essentially a function of the soul; secondary results will naturally appear within the body and the mind.

 

2. Affectionately associating with materialists

 

The primary destruction will be in the desire of the sadhaka for serving Krishna, having been influenced by the desires of a mundane person. Desire is essentially a characteristic of the soul, though manifest through the mind in the conditioned state.

 

3. Adopting items of bhakti unfavorable for one's specific devotion

 

In the stages of bhakti where one's devotion is gradually directed towards the Lord in a particular form of His, embracing the bhakti-bhava manifest in His other pastimes is harmful for the growth of ekanta-bhakti. For instance, for a devotee aiming at Vraja-bhava, contemplation on the pastimes of Dvaraka and worshiping the queens of Dvaraka headed by Rukmini is harmful.

 

 

Having clarified the conceptions related with niyama in this regard, I believe the intention is clear without going to great lenghts in quoting verses which explain the active principles in the abovementioned three verses. Please let me know if you feel otherwise. I feel it was mainly the definitions I used (such as "niyama for the soul") which were not clear.

[Guest guest]

You are right. Your line of thought is definitely better understood by me with the examples. But I am not able to agree with this fully - the concept of niyamas for the soul. This probaly needs to be substantiated with sastric reference.

 

The atma is perfect by nature and should need no regulations by definition. It is the mind, intelligence and body which need to be put through the niyamas so that they can be purified enough to perceive the self and the self of all - Krishna.

 

Before going too far with the examples I request you to correct me if you think what I said is not true.

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-12-2002).]

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

You are right. Your line of thought is definitely better understood by me with the examples. But I am not able to agree with this fully - the concept of niyamas for the soul. This probaly needs to be substantiated with sastric reference.

 

The atma is perfect by nature and should need no regulations by definition. It is the mind, intelligence and body which need to be put through the niyamas so that they can be purified enough to perceive the self and the self of all - Krishna.

 

Before going too far with the examples I request you to correct me if you think what I said is not true.

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-12-2002).]

Bhakti is essentially a function of the atma, though it manifests through the body, mind and intelligence. It is not only a question of perception; it is a question of manifesting devotion. Do we agree on this?

 

As I said, a baddha-jiva is embodied, that is, he is encaged within the body, mind and intelligence. Therefore whatever happens in this world is naturally in relation with them.

 

MuNDaka UpaniSad (3.1.9):

 

eSo 'Nur AtmA cetasA veditavyo

yasmin prANaH paJcadhA saMviveza

prANaiz cittaM sarvam otaM prajAnAM

yasmin vizuddhe vibhavaty eSa AtmA

 

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prANa, apAna, vyAna, samAna and udAna), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited."

 

Hence the awareness of the soul is influenced by matter. And it is the business of the soul to get rid of the false desire to lord it over the material world. No niyama will do no good, if the desire of the soul is not positively influenced through contact with that which is of spirit in nature and positively inclined towards Bhagavat-seva.

 

KaTha UpaniSad (1.2.20):

 

aNor aNIyAn mahato mahIyAn

AtmAsya jantor nihito guhAyAm

tam akratuH pazyati vIta-zoko

dhAtuH prasAdAn mahimAnam AtmanaH

 

"Both the Supersoul [ParamAtmA] and the atomic soul [jIvAtmA] are situated on the same tree of the body within the same heart of the living being, and only one who has become free from all material desires as well as lamentations can, by the grace of the Supreme, understand the glories of the soul."

 

A classical verse from the MuNDaka UpaniSad (3.1.2) and zvetAzvatara UpaniSad (4.7) confirms that it is the self who is to turn towards Bhagavan:

 

samAne vRkSe puruSo nimagno

?nIzayA zocati muhyamAnaH

juSTaM yadA pazyaty anyam Izam

asya mahimAnam iti vIta-zokaH

 

"Although the two birds are in the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories?at once the suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties."

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by raga:

MuNDaka UpaniSad (3.1.9):

 

eSo 'Nur AtmA cetasA veditavyo

yasmin prANaH paJcadhA saMviveza

prANaiz cittaM sarvam otaM prajAnAM

yasmin vizuddhe vibhavaty eSa AtmA

 

"The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is floating in the five kinds of air (prANa, apAna, vyAna, samAna and udAna), is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited."

 

This is the translation given by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada embeds his purport in the translation. Unless one accepts Srila Prabhupada's authority 100% one cannot accept his translation 100%. We need to go for word to word translation, comments of the other acharyas and the context of the verse.

 

With zillions of obeisances at Srila Prabhupada's lotus, it may also be "appropriate" to translate this verse as follows :

 

"The infinitesimal atma, floating in the five pranas, can be perceived by intelligence". When these pranas, by which the mind becomes conscious of the body, are purified the atma's presence is apparent."

 

(As I am not having the books, I am unable to quote how the various acharyas of the vedantic tradition are translating this. This may not be seen as an insult to any acharya)

 

In this case, you are not having the problem of explaining the how the complete and perfect soul becomes impure.

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 05-15-2002).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

The soul is eternally pure, but his consciousness becomes contaminated by contact with material nature. Contaminated consciousness is the primordial ingredient in creation.

 

Its like getting your shirt stuck in the door of a bus. As the bus drives off, you have to run along with it. You are not in the bus, but still the bus is directing you.

 

Through our consciousness the pure soul becomes linked with material existence.

 

Rain water is pure, but after raining, the water contains the qualities of the earth (i.e. dirt). By filtering the water it again becomes pure. Our consciousness is similar.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by jndas:

The soul is eternally pure, but his consciousness becomes contaminated by contact with material nature. Contaminated consciousness is the primordial ingredient in creation.

 

Its like getting your shirt stuck in the door of a bus. As the bus drives off, you have to run along with it. You are not in the bus, but still the bus is directing you.

 

Through our consciousness the pure soul becomes linked with material existence.

 

Rain water is pure, but after raining, the water contains the qualities of the earth (i.e. dirt). By filtering the water it again becomes pure. Our consciousness is similar.

As you would have seen from the posts above, we are discussing whether there are niyamas for the soul in bhakti yoga. As for as I understand, the niyamas are for the body and mind so that we can progress on the spiritual path. Niyamas help us detach from the material world. I agree with your examples and it does not contradict my understanding either. When the dirt "mixes" with rain water, the rain water still remains pure and if we detach water from the dirt through the process of filtering or evaporation, the rain water manisfests its original nature. So also the bus example. If we give up the shirt - our connection with the material world - we come to my natural state. So it is the same as saying that the niyamas are for detaching the spirit and matter. As long as everything is done as an offering to Krishna, it is spiritual - including the niyamas. But that is not to say that there are niyamas for the mind-body and there are separate niyamas for the soul. This is because niyamas are meant to remove the imperfections and whence the imperfection in the soul ?

 

Raga believes there are niyamas for the soul. I am awaiting sastric evidence. As for as the translation is by Srila Prabhupada is concerned, we have to accept him as the authority or else we cannot quote his translation to establish a point. Whether it does is another issue.

 

[raga]

Essentially when I used the concept "niyamas for the soul" I meant things which invoke a direct negative influence on the soul, regardless of whether it has a subsequent consequence on the body/mind or not. I believe I already presented three clear examples.

 

Bhagavata 5.5.2:

 

mahat-sevAM dvAram Ahur vimuktes

tamo-dvAraM yoSitäM saGgi-saGgam

 

"Service of great souls opens the door to liberation, association with women and those associating with women opens the door to darkness."

 

It is obvious that this is not an injunction primarily to regulate the mind and the body. Asat-sanga has a direct negative influence on the desire of the soul to serve Bhagavan; neglectance (niyama) of which sets a favorable field for the cultivation of bhakti.

 

OK?

 

This is because niyamas are meant to remove the imperfections and whence the imperfection in the soul ?

Is the soul perfect when situated in the formless brahma above tri-guna? No. Bhagavata (2.10.6) states:

 

muktir hitvAnyathA rUpaM

sva-rUpeNa vyavasthitiH

 

"Liberation is the giving up of an illusory form and becoming situated in one's own form (svarUpa)."

 

In the cultivation of this unique svarupa, one needs to restrain himself from becoming attracted to various paths of devotion. I made this point earlier. Svarupa is cultivated. Gita 8.6:

 

yaM yaM vApi smaran bhAvaM tyajaty ante kalevaram

taM tam evaiti kaunteya sadA tad-bhAva-bhAvitaH

 

"Whichever nature one remembers when this body comes to end, the same nature (bhAva), O son of Kunti, he certainly attains."

 

In other words, the svarUpa does not awaken by the process of negation. The manifestation of the svarUpa of the jiva requires positive cultivation.

 

I could go on at length about this and that, but let me try to understand what do you want me to present. Two questions:

 

1. What is your definition of "niyama"?

 

If you define "niyama" as restraints which help in purifying the soul from the contamination of matter, I agree -- there is no such niyama particularly for the soul, because the soul acts in this world through the medium of the mind and the body. There is no such thing as niyama *only* for the soul. I believe I've made this clear several times before. Is this clear?

 

1. Things mainly influencing body/mind, creating a conducive platform for sadhana.

2. Sadhana itself, mainly influencing the soul.

 

Is this all right?

 

[Guest guest]

Raga, what is the sastric evidence to show that there are niyamas which affect the soul directly instead of merely serving the purpose of regulating the gross and sublte bodies ?

 

I have a number of questions on the "evidence" and interpretations that you have presented so far some of which I have raised. If this is all the proof you have to show, then I will state my questions. But if you think you have some direct sastric evidence over and above what you have given so far, then please present that so that we can move on to the next section of the topic.

 

 

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

Raga, what is the sastric evidence to show that there are niyamas which affect the soul directly instead of merely serving the purpose of regulating the gross and sublte bodies ?

 

I have a number of questions on the "evidence" and interpretations that you have presented so far some of which I have raised. If this is all the proof you have to show, then I will state my questions. But if you think you have some direct sastric evidence over and above what you have given so far, then please present that so that we can move on to the next section of the topic.

 

 

Before we proceed anywhere, please present your conception of "niyama". Then I will tell you if such a thing exists for the soul or not. We are just playing around with different definitions, yours being different from mine.

 

Can you offer something from sruti, smrti or anywhere which defines "niyama"? Otherwise we are trying to find consensus on something indefinite.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-17-2002).]

[Guest guest]

As I am travelling, I am not carrying the books. As a result I am unable to provide definitive quotes from the sastras. Is it not interesting that after 18 posts on the topic "niyamas of bhakti yoga", we have not defined niyama ? -

 

If you have any reference, please post that.

[Bhaktavasya]

Ram; from your understanding of the books

 

you mentioned in the beginning thread, could

 

you kindly give a brief definition of

 

the word 'niyamas'. A person who has studied

 

Bhagavad Gita does not have to have a copy

 

with her/him to be able to define (for example)

 

mantra as mind-releasing. Mantra is so much more..

 

the Name incarnating on our tongues. Still,

 

the basic definition is essential in putting

 

the discussion into perspective. Everytime

 

the word 'niyama' comes up, there's a big

 

questions mark, at least in my mind' and

 

probably in the minds of many others.

 

Definition please!

 

I

 

[This message has been edited by Bhaktavasya (edited 05-18-2002).]

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by raga:

 

 

Well here it is; the definition of niyama

 

AND yama; things to not be done and things

 

to be done. "Everybody plays the fool", as

 

the song goes. I skimmed through the thread

 

too quickly and missed what I was searching

 

for. A lesson on the folly of 'rushing'

 

back to Godhead.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-20-2002).]

[raga]

Originally posted by ram:

As I am travelling, I am not carrying the books. As a result I am unable to provide definitive quotes from the sastras. Is it not interesting that after 18 posts on the topic "niyamas of bhakti yoga", we have not defined niyama ? -

 

If you have any reference, please post that.

Ram, the reason why I asked you to define it is that it appered you were not comfortable with my simplistic idea, "things not to be done". I don't have a definition beyond the dictionary meaning of the word. Monier Williams (only the most relevant definitions):<blockquote>[*] m. restraining , checking , holding back , preventing , controlling

[*] keeping down , lowering (as the voice)

[*] limitation , restriction (ena ind. with restrictions i.e. under certain conditions Car.)

[*] reduction or restriction to (with loc. or prati) , determination , definition

[*] any fixed rule or law , necessity , obligation (ena and ?t ind. as a rule , necessarily , invariably , surely)

[*] agreement , contract , promise , vow R. Kath?s.

[*] any act of voluntary penance or meritorious piety (esp. a lesser vow or minor observance dependent on external conditions and not so obligatory as yama , see q.v.) T?r. Mn. MBh. K?v. &c.

[*] to quicksilver , w.r. Çy?ma) Cat.

[*] (in rhet.) a common-place , any conventional expression or usual comparison

[*] (in MIm. phil.) a rule or precept (laying down or specifying something otherwise optional)

[*] restraint of the mind (the 2nd of the 8 steps of meditation in Yoga)

[*] performing five positive duties

[*] N. of ViSNu

[*] Necessity or Law personified as a son of Dharma and DhRti

[*] -dharma m. a law prescribing restraints

[*] -niSTha? f. rigid observance of prescribed rites

[*] -para mfn. observing fixed rules

[*] relating to or corroborative of a rule

[*] -pAla m. " observer of vows "

[*] -vat mfn. practising religious observances MBh.</blockquote>

 

Feel free to pick yours!

 

Anyone has Amarakosa at hand?

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

To give another schools concept of Niyama, this is from Patanjali's yoga sutras:

 

shauca-santosha-tapah-svadhyayayeshvara-pranidhanani niyamah

 

Niyamas are the actions that should be performed in order to advance in yoga. They consits of shaucha (purity), santosha (contentment), tapas (austerity), svadhyaya (self study),and ishvara pranidhana (surrender to God).

 

[Guest guest]

Raga, ofcourse I remember the dictionary meanings of the words. But I prefer the sastric definition over dictionary meaning where available. In some cases they differ. For example, take the word yoga. This can be given a number of meanings. But the Lord beautifully defines it samatvam yogam uchyate. In this single definition, He is able to pack all the meanings of the word are packed. As for as I remember, the Lord does not use the word niyama directly in the Gita.

 

JNDas, thanks for the definition from Patanjali. Let us discuss whether this should be used as you have said that it is from another school.