When Prabhupada was here

[Sarasvati]

There was an article in Chakra some time back about the times when Srila Prabhupada was physically present, versus now. I was just wondering what did you all think about the points?

 

I personally think that the majority of the points were very valid, and it was nice that they were brought up. Some of them were sad though. Pratyatosha Prabhu was wondering why nowadays most of the kids in Iskcon go to regular schools when in Prabhupada's time they all went to gurukulas (not even Iskcon day-schools). Well, there is definitely a sad reason for this change in parents' attitudes. And correct me if I'm wrong (I might be wrong, I know, and I apologize if I am), but didn't Pratyatosh Prabhu help the ex-gurukulis with their law-suit. So this point was a little bit surprising, coming from him (in that case). Furthermore, some points must have been in the list for a joke, such as the one about squatting versus sitting on the toilet pot. Has there been a scientific survey done on this? How many devotees squat and how many sit nowadays? How do we know...

 

But, as I say, overall the points were nice.

[Tarun]

Squatting is healthier than sitting. Increased angle.

Go with the flow. Please go. Mechanical, physical openness.

In Kaliyuga, everyone is more or less full of schitt. oops!

All the more reason...

Sitting is okay if u have back or leg problems.

As for Gurukula, 3 of my 5 were in it.

I believe it should've been principally a day school.

Too much pressure on ashram teachers:

a) to get kids up, showered & dressed for mangalAratrik.

b) to babysit for some who were irresponsible parents.

c) to put them all to bed by 5pm so they get 10 hrs rest by 3am.

Did u ever try to put a 5-15 yr old to sleep at 5pm?

My 6th ~ stepson went to the best school on this planet:

Plato School in Zuid-Amsterdam. Open challenge!

5 languages: SanskRt, English, French, German, Nederlands

RAmAyaN & MahAbharata dramas; Vedik musik concerts

Vegetarian lunch prayed over with several mantras.

Not as much as ZrIman MahAprabhu taught, but a practical start.

[karthik_v]

Personally, I don't believe that gurukula is a great idea. A child should grow up in family where he or she gets all warmth. Oh, I am talking of the traditional Indian family here, which still remains a reality in India. To entrust a child to the care of a teacher and go about distributing books is, in my opinion, irresponsible. Such a child doesn't necessarily become more spiritual. In all likelihood, he/she will grow up as an insecure individual. How many gurukulis became sannyasis or great grahastha devotees?

 

I think the ideal school is like what Aurobindo ashram or Chinmaya mission run. They run regular school, all students are day scholars and parents interact closely. Parallelly, they impart vedic teachings. Only such schools can attract children of responsible parents. Most of those kids practice atleast part of what they learn.

[Rati]

My brother and sister-in-law tried home schooling for a while for their two kids, on account of their religious faith (Christian) and the problems in the public schools, but it did not work out, so the kids ended up back in the public school system. Until the whole faulty educational system is thrown out and rebuilt from scratch, I guess we are stuck with it for the time being.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 05-15-2002).]

[theist]

Vouchers for a start in the US

[Guest guest]

 

The problem is that of time.

It takes time and money,and actual realized devotees to start and operate a gurukula, that will be succesfull and beneficial.

The previous problems,were that precedence was given to expediency,over qualification.

Just about anyone,if they couldn't distribute books,or cook, or do diety worship, might have been teaching in the schools.

This new day gives us an opportunity to learn from past mistakes.

The hiring of qualified teachers is all important.

The Ashram itself should reflect the traditional Ashram of Vedic times.

It should not be a place for those not interested in going there,forced by their parents.

The creation of Gurukulas shouldn't be about making profit.

The students should be learning from more sources then publc schools,not less.

They are for turning out superior intellects, not inferior.

Most importantly they need to be guided by people with the qualities of mercy, and compassion, and tolerance for others.

This is why they are called Guru-Kulas, they are the residence's of the enlightened teachers.

[stonehearted]

I taught in two gurukulas over a period of several years and ran a gurukula (Honolulu, Hawaii, 1979-84). My wife also taught at three gurukulas over several years and managed one for seven years (San Diego, California). I think it may be fine to have an ashram program for local devotees' kids who want such training, if the community has, and can and will support, qualified teachers. The parents are responsible for delivering their, but if they can enlist qualified devotees to help by training the children, and can maintain a close, loving relationship with their kids, everything should work well. That's not how most gurukulas worked 20+ years ago, though. And it's not what Srila Prabhupada indicated he wanted either. See his purport to SB 2.2.30, for example, where he writes, "Five thousand years ago, when the social status of human society was in perfect Vedic order, the yoga process mentioned herein was a common affair for everyone because everyone, and especially the brahmana and ksatriya, was trained in the transcendental art under the care of the spiritual master far away from home, in the status of brahmacarya.") This is a tricky proposal, though, and it will probably be a long time before anyone tries to set up an ashram-style gurukula in the US.

 

theist, don't worry about my name (you indicated some uneasiness with using it on a now-closed thread). It works on at least two levels. One is a simple admission of my materialistic inclination, which renders me insensitive to others' needs. Another is my aspiration that my heart may some day belong to my worshipable Deities, a salagram-shila and two little Govardhana shilas. You may find pictures of them at http://www.salagram.net/sstp-Babhru.html

 

BTW, this is a very cool Web site. Check it out.

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 05-15-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by stonehearted (edited 05-16-2002).]

[Sarasvati]

The sad reason that Iskcon kids don't go to gurukulas (usually) any more is that there was abuse that took place in so many of them. Parents are scared to send their kids away. I know I am. Another obvious reason is that there aren't many gurukulas left.

 

And Tarun, I agree with you that squatting is more healthy; it's quite scientific. But how do we know that devotees don't squat anymore? There aren't any reliable statistics available on this, as far as I know.

 

 

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by Sarasvati:

The sad reason that Iskcon kids don't go to gurukulas (usually) any more is that there was abuse that took place in so many of them. Parents are scared to send their kids away. I know I am. Another obvious reason is that there aren't many gurukulas left.

Yes, this is not even a controversial point. I know that, even back then, our kids only went to gurukulas my wife and I either managed, taught in, or both. I'd be even more cautious now.

 

[bhaktashab]

The gurukula structure was part of the varnasrama system and hence a creation of God. Why should we think that our own culturally concoted methods of education are going to be better than what Krsna has created and what Srila Prabhupada has desired we establish?

 

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shab.

[Bhaktavasya]

Originally posted by Sarasvati:

There was an article in Chakra some time back about the times when Srila Prabhupada was physically present, versus now. I was just wondering what did you all think about the points?

 

I personally think that the majority of the points were very valid, and it was nice that they were brought up. Some of them were sad though. Pratyatosha Prabhu was wondering why nowadays most of the kids in Iskcon go to regular schools when in Prabhupada's time they all went to gurukulas (not even Iskcon day-schools). Well, there is definitely a sad reason for this change in parents' attitudes. And correct me if I'm wrong (I might be wrong, I know, and I apologize if I am), but didn't Pratyatosh Prabhu help the ex-gurukulis with their law-suit.

Yes, Pratyatosh was the one who originally contacted the lawyers involved in the current gurukula lawsuit, and connected them with the former students, now plantiffs. I also am perplexed by Pratyatosha's pro-gurukula stance now, as (and I may also be mistaken here)I seem to recall that his own children or at least his son was abused and is part of the lawsuit.

 

 

[Sarasvati]

Bhaktashab, I have understood that homeschooling is just as Vedic as gurukula. At least the girls were home-educated in ancient times, and perhaps many boys, too. Furthermore, I don't think there is any need to try to make people feel guilty if they cannot live nowadays exactly as in the good, old times.