Can a man go to heaven with his original body if so why if not why not?

[Pritesh01]

Can a man go to heaven with his original body if so why if not why not?

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

There is the story of Trishanku in the Puranas. He wanted to attain the Heavens without proper qualification. He requested his guru Vishwamitra to arrange for it, but every time Vishwamitra sent him to heaven, the devas kicked him out. Back and forth he was thrown, from earth to heaven, and back again, until finally he realized he couldn't get in. So Vishwamitra decided to make a second svarga-loka by his mystical potency, which he was able to do. But after exhausting his mystical potency, he was not able to keep the innumerable heavenly planets in orbit, and they began to fall towards the earth. At that point he surrendered to Vishnu for help.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

This story is also found in Ramayana.

[shvu]

 

But after exhausting his mystical potency, he was not able to keep the innumerable heavenly planets in orbit, and they began to fall towards the earth. At that point he surrendered to Vishnu for help.

Trishanku was cursed for his lofty ambition and was turned into a Chandala. Vishwamitra decided to help him and performed Yajna to elevate him into Swarga. Trishanku began to rise and go upwards but was stopped at some point(because no one could get into Swarga in ther physical bodies? ...don't recall). Vishwamitra created a new set of planets for Trishanku where he was suspended and that is called Trishanku Swarga.

 

I have not read the part where Vishwamitra loses his power and surrenders to Vishnu.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Just remembered the story is on this site:

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/ramayana-vasishtha-vishvamitra2.htm

 

Now, Tri-shanku, who was in the Iksvaku dynasty suddenly developed desires to go to the heavenly planet in this body. So he went to Vasishtha who was his guru, Vasishtha is guru for so many generations. "Please my guru, send me to the heavenly planets."

 

Vasishtha said, "Yes I can send you to heaven. You perform some pious activities, next life you will go." Tri-shanku said, "No, not next life, this life." Vasishtha said, "You die in this life, and then in the next life you can go to heaven.No, I don't want to wait. I want to go in this body." Vasishtha asked, "Where did you get this crazy idea from?" Tri-shanku replied, "I am a very pious person. I have done so many nice things, and there is no complaint against me. Why shouldn't you send me?" Vasishtha said, "That is very good, you are a pious person, a great king, but heavenly planet cannot be attained in this body." Tri-shanku said, "But you can adjust things, you are a great rishi." Vasishtha replied, "No I can't adjust things, I can only follow the rules of God." Vasishtha said, "If you can't adjust things, then what kind of a guru are you?" Vasishtha said, "Well if you don't want to be my disciple then I will go. I'm not going to teach the Iksvaku dynasty any more." Vasishtha took his danda and walked out.

 

Then Tri-shanku remembered that Vasishtha also had a hundred sons, and they were doing tapasya somewhere in South India, so he went to South India and met these sons. He asked them, "Please send me to heaven in this same body.What is this nonsense? We can't do this," the sons replied. "Your father also said the same thing." The sons said, "You mean our father said it could not be done and now you are coming to us?" Tri-shanku said, "Yes, because young students like to do this sort of evolutionary stuff." The sons said, "Yes, we will do some evolution, you become a chandala." So they cursed him, and suddenly his whole body turned black. Even his chadar which was golden turned black. All his golden ornaments turned into iron ornaments and his face became cruel. So when he went back to Ayodhya, people laughed at him and kicked him out of the country.

 

Then he was wandering in the forest and one day he saw a rishi standing on one leg. That was our Kaushika, Vishvamitra, doing some other austerity now. He came to him and said, "You are so effulgent, like the Sun-god." Kaushika said, "Tell me what you want. And you seem to be a bit of a chandala, but either way you are talking like a royal family man." The king replied, "I am Tri-shanku from the Iksvaku dynasty. I have been cursed by Vasishtha's sons." As soon as he heard Vasishtha's name, he got fired up. "Why did they curse you? Who are they to curse you?" The king said, "I just asked them a small thing.What did you ask?" Vishvamitra inquired. "I asked them if I could go to heaven in this body, and then they cursed me." Vishvamitra said, "What? You want to go to heaven in this body? Where did you get this idea from?" The king replied, "One fine morning I got up, and I thought like that." Vishvamitra said, "See what happened to you, for entertaining this idea?"

 

The king thought that Vishvamitra is cooling down, this is no good. I had better get him fired up again. The king said, "That Vasishtha said that no-one could do it." Vishvamitra said, "What was that? Repeat that again.He said, no-one can do it." Vishvamitra replied, "Who said no-one can do it? I can do it." So then Vishvamitra sent word to all the rishis saying, "I am doing a yajna, so you also come. I am going to ask the demigods to take him just like this." All the rishis came because they were scared of Vishvamitra, that he would curse them too. So they came there, they were all doing yajna and they were so scared. And then the demigods came. Indra approached Vishvamitra and asked, "Now what is the purpose of this yajna? What do you need?" Vishvamitra replied, "We want this man to go to heaven." Indra said, "So many people are coming to heaven, I have no objection.No no," Vishvamitra replied, "Like this." Indra said, "What? Like this? No, that's not possible. I can't let him in like this. I can't do it." Vishvamitra protested, "But this is a special case." Indra said, "No, special case nothing. I can't do it." Vishvamitra said, "All right, if I cannot do it by yajna then I will do it by my austerities." So he took the shruva, spoon which he was using to pour ghee, and he touched Tri-shanku and said, "All right, Tri-shanku, fly now to heaven by my power."

 

Then Tri-shanku disappeared from the earthly planet, and he was flying, flying through space. Indra was back in his planet, and everyone was saying, "Indra, look who is coming. It's Tri-shanku.Tri-shanku?" Indra said in disbelief. Then he took his Vadra and hit him on the back and Tri-shanku came back at full speed. So Vishvamitra was sitting there peacefully and Tri-shanku was crying, "Vishvamitra, help me!" Vishvamitra said, "You are not coming back, you are going to heaven!" Vishvamitra then used some more of his power and sent him back up. And then Indra sent him back again, and Vishvamitra sent him back again, and then Indra sent him back. The third time when he was going towards heaven Tri-shanku said, "I don't want to go to heaven! I would rather go to hell! Anything is better than this. What am I doing in outer space? You send me anywhere, but please stop this!" Vishvamitra said, "No, I made a promise to you. That promise must be kept, even if you don't want. You must go to heaven!" And he sent him back. Indra said, "I don't want you," and he kicked him back. This time Tri-shanku said, "Please Vishvamitra, I don't want heaven. I realize now that it is very bad to think like that. I just want to be a king somewhere. I'll be a beggar somewhere. Stop pushing me like this."

 

Vishvamitra said, "No. If they won't let you into heaven, I will create you a heaven. So he created a heaven. He created demigods, he created Indra, he created Airavata, he created everything by his tapovalam, and austerity was finished. So now, the planet has to be in orbit also. No more tapovalam, so how are we going to put it in orbit? Then the whole heaven started to come down to earth, because that is where it was created. Now Vishvamitra said, "O my God! Now heaven is coming down and everything will be finished! What am I going to do?" Then he lifted his hands and said, "Hari! Hari!" The Lord appeared and asked, "Vishvamitra, what is the problem? Usually you call Brahma, you never call Me. What happened to you?" Vishvamitra said, "Look, look! Do something please, it is coming down!" The Lord said, "What is it? What is falling down?" Vishvamitra replied, "It is my creation.Oh, it's your creation!" Vishnu said. "So you maintain it, I'm going.No no no! Don't go, please do something. I only created it, I can't maintain it. It's not possible for me." The Lord said, "I will put my energy into it and maintain it."

 

So the Supreme Lord entered into that heaven. This heaven is known as Tri-shanku svarga, and it is still existing. The Lord put Tri-shanku there to please Vishvamitra. And then Vishvamitra was saved, otherwise these heavenly planets would come down and burn the earth planet and everything else would be burnt. Then Narayana said, "Don't get into this area. My zone is a very difficult zone, creating, maintaining, destroying. This is my work. You simply do tapasya, and bless people. Don't try to become Hari or there will be trouble." Vishvamitra said, "I have realized it once and for all. I will not do this any more." Then the Lord was so pleased with him for his immediate surrender that He said, "I will become your student in Treta-yuga." So in this way Ramachandra became Vishvamitra's student.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-14-2002).]

[Avinash]

J.N. Das ji,

One correction if you do not mind. In your post, you have used 'Vasistha' instead of 'Vishvamitra' at a few places.

[Avinash]

Didn't Yudhisthira go to heaven in his body?

[theist]

The son of Tribandhana was Satyavrata, who is celebrated by the name Trishanku. Because he kidnapped the daughter of a brähmana when she was being married, his father cursed him to become a candäla, lower than a südra. Thereafter, by the influence of Visvämitra, he went to the higher planetary system, the heavenly planets, in his material body, but because of the prowess of the demigods he fell back downward. Nonetheless, by the power of Visvämitra, he did not fall all the way down; even today he can still be seen hanging in the sky, head downward.SB 9.7.6

 

 

This has always struck me a strange verse.

Can someone explain what is up with this?

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-14-2002).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Originally posted by Avinash:

J.N. Das ji,

One correction if you do not mind. In your post, you have used 'Vasistha' instead of 'Vishvamitra' at a few places.

Thanks for pointing it out. Now I have corrected it on the website and in the post above.

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 05-14-2002).]

[Pritesh01]

Originally posted by Pritesh01:

Can a man go to heaven with his original body if so why if not why not?

From Shrimad Bhagwat we also come to know that

Dhruvji left this material world with his body.

He stepped over death and went with pride.

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

By original body,do you mean the one you are in now?

If so,the answer is yes.

Heaven,is a biblical concept.

The Vedic conception is different.

In the Vedic concept, consciousness is all important.

You can be in heaven or hell,right here,right now.

It depends on your consciousness.

If you are engaged in spiritual life,then you are living in the spiritual world.

If you are engeged in materilistic activities, devoid of the association of Divine consciousness,then you are living in the material world.

Your body and mind,engaged in the activities proscribed by the Vedic authorities,are transformed into spiritual energy.

Sri Krsna Caitanya started the sankirtan movement for this purpose.

The persons engaged in the activities and associations proscribed by Him and his representatives,no longer live in the material realm.

They have entered into the transcendental realm,which is described as sat-cit-ananda, full of bliss, realized knowledge, and awareness of our eternal nature.

This is described as the special dispensation for Kali-Yuga,the present age of ignorance.

The Yuga Avatar, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who is none other then Sri Radha Krsna, has incarnated as a devotee, he has brought the highest realm of "heaven" ,down to earth.

This is the special benediction for this age,by entering into the association of the Sankirtan movement,one enters directly into the highest realm.

After quiting your present body,you continue living in the consciousness you have developed.

This Sankirtan movement is the activity of the liberated souls,their lives are lived free from anxiety,this state of consciousness is called Vaikuntha, which is described as the "heavenly abode of the liberated souls".

Vaikuntha is attainable in this life,the consciousness of the individual is the key,that unlocks the door of Heaven.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by theist:

The son of Tribandhana was Satyavrata, who is celebrated by the name Trishanku. Because he kidnapped the daughter of a brähmana when she was being married, his father cursed him to become a candäla, lower than a südra. Thereafter, by the influence of Visvämitra, he went to the higher planetary system, the heavenly planets, in his material body, but because of the prowess of the demigods he fell back downward. Nonetheless, by the power of Visvämitra, he did not fall all the way down; even today he can still be seen hanging in the sky, head downward.SB 9.7.6

 

 

This has always struck me a strange verse.

Can someone explain what is up with this?

 

[This message has been edited by theist (edited 05-14-2002).]

does this not contradict the traditional version or is it kalpa bheda ?

[Gauracandra]

It has always struck me as interesting that the earth planet is 70% covered in water, and the body is 70% water. I once heard a quote by John F. Kennedy in which he was speaking about sea water being in our veins. How the salinity of the water in our blood exactly matches the ocean's.

 

We are given particular bodies to live in particular environments. If my body is meant for the earth planet, then how can I enter a heavenly planet for which the environment may be made of a much subtler material. For instance, we tend to think of life as being carbon based. Why can't life be based on energy for instance? Would we even recognize such life? And how could we enter such a planet? We would have no way of understanding or comprehending such life or how to interact with it.

 

The Jehova Witnesses do however believe that they will physically rise up in these bodies when they go to heaven. Personally I don't like that idea because when I go to heaven I want to be better looking

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

does this not contradict the traditional version or is it kalpa bheda ?

Sometimes the curses are given at one time, and effected through fate in the future. Like in the case of Karna.

 

 

[theist]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

The Jehova Witnesses do however believe that they will physically rise up in these bodies when they go to heaven. Personally I don't like that idea because when I go to heaven I want to be better looking

Alot of Christians believe that.They call it the resurresction.They believe that when a "saved" Christian dies their soul goes to a place of slumber until Christ returns to judge the Earth.At that time the soul will awaken and be reunited with its earthly body in the air and reign with Christ for a thousand years and then I guess float off to heaven.

 

They literaly believe that at that time graves will open and corpses will rise into the air.

 

And Christians who haven't undergone physical death yet will float up out of their cars or whatever else they happen to be doing at the time.

 

This opens the door for some interesting questions like: Which body do you leave with , the baby body or an older version?

What about the fact that all those molecules are mixed with other's bodies, who gets what?

Or why in the name of God would a saved soul come back to pick up a rotting corpse to try and drag it into heaven with him?

 

But these devotees and mystics can change the nature of their form at will, which is where they get the idea.Elijah in the Old Testament.Christ Himself.The Pandavas.Didn't Arjuna spend some time in heaven fighting for Indra?

 

 

[theist]

ramji, what I found strange about that verse is the description that he was left hanging upside down in the sky and we could even today see him there.

 

SB blows my mind with some of these odd statements mixed in with the most beautiful descriptions of God and revelations of the nature of transcendence that I have found.

 

I've decided to try an take the essence and just leave the rest hanging for now.

[bhaktajoy]

theist prabhuji,

if this may interest you.

 

www.near-death.com/resurrection.html

[Pritesh01]

Originally posted by Pritesh01:

Can a man go to heaven with his original body if so why if not why not?

First what is heaven. We are not Christians who have no idea of heaven so they just lump everything into the word heaven. Heaven(svarga) according to our scriptures is the set of material planets that are inhabited by the devas. There it is possible to have very long life, no disease ( I suppose due to preventive measures, the Asvini twins are their medical men), no old age and we get enjoyment of pleasures that we cant imagine. Vaisnavas dont go here.

 

Vaisnavas go to Vaikuntha, spiritual realm, which is beyond the material universes. I am going to assume that when you said heaven you meant the svarga planets of the Devas.

 

Next you made the comment "original body" which I assume you meant the body right now we have. If yes, then this body is one of the many material bodies we had accepted during birth and lost during death. There are material bodies acquired as a result of our past karma (punya and papa). So this material body cannot be considered as original. Our original body will be manifested when we return to Vaikuntha.

 

Okay to discussion. It is not possible to reach svarga with this present material body. Why because the atmospheres are different. Trishaku tried to reach svarga with present body and he failed. You know that it is not possible to go to outer space in the body so the astronauts cover their bodies with protective covering. How do we enjoy when you cover yourself like an astronaut. Also what is the point going to svarga where enjoyments cannot be fully enjoyed because of the limitations of the earthly body. The devas having bodies made in svarga are able to enjoy much much more tha we possibly can on earth, that is why it is called heaven. on earth we enjoy seeing a beautiful flower and we smell it for enjoyment. an animal cannot enjoy the same flower even though it is available because of the limitations of its senses and perceptions. Similarly, our present body, being limited, will not be able to enjoy in spite of the enjoyment being there in svarga; if we cant enjoy in svarga and it is the same as on earth why go there and why call it heaven.. so we have to give up this present body. and take a new deva like body. Also many of us at the time of death will be having old bodies, diseased bodies, broken bodies, etc. Why go to heaven in such conditions? So new wonderful body is given.

 

This are the reasons why we are given new bodies when we go to heaven if that is the place you want to go. But the scriptures suggest that we strive for Vaikuntha where we can serve in our original form as the servant of Krsna. jivera svarupa haya, krsnera nitya dasa.

 

Your servant,

 

Pritesh

 

 

[Pritesh01]

First what is heaven. We are not Christians who have no idea of heaven so they just lump everything into the word heaven. Heaven(svarga) according to our scriptures is the set of material planets that are inhabited by the devas. There it is possible to have very long life, no disease ( I suppose due to preventive measures, the Asvini twins are their medical men), no old age and we get enjoyment of pleasures that we cant imagine. Vaisnavas dont go here.

 

Vaisnavas go to Vaikuntha, spiritual realm, which is beyond the material universes. I am going to assume that when you said heaven you meant the svarga planets of the Devas.

 

Next you made the comment "original body" which I assume you meant the body right now we have. If yes, then this body is one of the many material bodies we had accepted during birth and lost during death. There are material bodies acquired as a result of our past karma (punya and papa). So this material body cannot be considered as original. Our original body will be manifested when we return to Vaikuntha.

 

Okay to discussion. It is not possible to reach svarga with this present material body. Why because the atmospheres are different. Trishaku tried to reach svarga with present body and he failed. You know that it is not possible to go to outer space in the body so the astronauts cover their bodies with protective covering. How do we enjoy when you cover yourself like an astronaut. Also what is the point going to svarga where enjoyments cannot be fully enjoyed because of the limitations of the earthly body. The devas having bodies made in svarga are able to enjoy much much more tha we possibly can on earth, that is why it is called heaven. on earth we enjoy seeing a beautiful flower and we smell it for enjoyment. an animal cannot enjoy the same flower even though it is available because of the limitations of its senses and perceptions. Similarly, our present body, being limited, will not be able to enjoy in spite of the enjoyment being there in svarga; if we cant enjoy in svarga and it is the same as on earth why go there and why call it heaven.. so we have to give up this present body. and take a new deva like body. Also many of us at the time of death will be having old bodies, diseased bodies, broken bodies, etc. Why go to heaven in such conditions? So new wonderful body is given.

 

This are the reasons why we are given new bodies when we go to heaven if that is the place you want to go. But the scriptures suggest that we strive for Vaikuntha where we can serve in our original form as the servant of Krsna. jivera svarupa haya, krsnera nitya dasa.

 

Your servant,

 

Pritesh

[xxvvii]

This topic is mentioned in OT.,Bible & the end of maghAbhArata. The material body can only stay in time-space area. So the answer depends on the definition of heaven. I suggest you search "garment" in The Keys Of Enoch.

[Dharma]

It can barely survive past the moon. I am thinking that it must be a very nice body if you want to take it with you.

 

 

[Tarun]

Can u ride a bike on a Freeway? Can your car fly over the ocean?

Can a commercial jet fly into outerspace? Can a monkey sing?

Can baby shoes fit a grown man? Can your body travel in cyberspace?

[Dharma]

"The time has come

The Walrus said

To talk of many things.

Of why the sea is boiling hot

And whether pigs have wings."

[Astron]

Dear List,

I am curious as to how Hindus interpret scriptures of other world religions. I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household but have had severe breaks with the doctrine I was taught, namely that there is an eternal hell. Do Hindus ascribe any divine authorship to the Christian Bible, and what, if any, is the Hindu concept of hell? I do realize that different schools of thought may have different answers. Even if I should not go to hell, if there were a hell, it would be a torment to me. I do think it to be a hideously unjust concept and I am trying to reconcile it in my mind once and for all.

Astron

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Hinduism is a very broad group of faiths and practices, thus I can't give an exact answer for all Hindus. But roughly, most Hindu's acknowledge some divine source for other religions and their scriptures. Over time man has adjusted these God given teachings to suit their political and economic agendas. Thus today's teachings may not actually be derived from God, despite the original teachings having come from Him. An example would be the past writs of assurance in the Catholic church - something clearly man made - where one can buy his way out of sin, whereas other poorer followers must suffer in hell. The entire concept of hell may have been designed by man to further the economic aims of the church. It is really impossible for us to know the intricate histories involved in the manufacturing of religious doctrines throughout the centuries.

 

The Hindu concept is to find the essence of spiritual knowledge everywhere, regardless of the source. It is said that just as one may take gold from a dirty place (the gutter for example), without being concerned with the dirt; in the same way one may take knowledge from any source. We must learn to distinguish between the "gold" and the "dirt". That which is made by man is always based on exploitation and should be avoided. That which is originating in the Divine is for the upliftment and benefit of all living entities. We should search for that divine spiritual knowledge in all faiths and religions.

 

As far as a hell for the eternal damnation of fallen souls, Hinduism does not accept such a thing. One of the fundamental concepts of Hinduism is the belief in reincarnation, whereby a soul is given unlimited opportunities at perfection. According to our actions in this life, we are given a suitable body in our next life, wherein we will experience reactions for our good and bad deeds. Those who have performed a great proportion of sinful (harmful) activities, will certainly reap negative results in the next life, and thus it may be thought of as a "hellish" existence.

 

But even in such a circumstance, we are all given the opportunity to learn and advance ourselves towards perfection.

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-06-2002).]