sex in the spiritual world?

raga · May 31, 2002

In regards to the specifics:

1) witnessed by aspiring siksha disciples (who later rejected him because of his offense)that he:

a. demanded that they relinquish all connections with their bona fide ISKCON diksha gurus, the guru parampara coming from ISKCON, and take reinitiation from him. Srila Prabhupada says, no Vaishnava will accept such a person who reinitiates a disciple of a guru who has not fallen down.

But alas, how many were re-initiated during the time of Bhaktisiddhanta from traditional Gaudiya lines. "But their gurus were all a priori fallen", you will say.

Besides, to whom did he say this? You may kindly tell when and to whom this was said -- otherwise the story may be just another fabrication.

b. blasphemed Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saying that he did not have a diksha guru,

Said to whom, and where? For the record, according to ISKCON & Gaudiya Matha sources, Bhaktisiddhanta did not receive traditional pancaratrika-diksa.

Bhakti Vikash Swami of ISKCON (who is compiling a biography of Bhaktisiddhanta: "It appears that the diksa given by SGKDB to SBST was most informal and not according to pancaratriki-vidhi or indeed to any prescribed vidhi, although it served the essential purpose of all vidhis."

Bhakti Kusuma Shramana of Gaudiya Matha: "With the permission of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura, Srila Sarasvati Thakura accepted Bhagavati initiation from Srila Babaji Maharaja in the month of Magha (January-February) 1900 A.D."

Hence, even if someone was to say that, there would be no fault in proposing that Bhaktisiddhanta had no pancaratrika diksa-guru.

c. that ISKCON has no guru parampara,

ISKCON has no pancaratrika-diksa guru-parampara, since their conception of guru-parampara (as well as that of the Gaudiya Matha) is different -- one of siksa-parampara.

d. that ISKCON devotees are all melecchas, and need I go further?

To whom was it said, and when?

e. highly suspected implication in the murder and disappearance of other babajis who became popular and thus powerful contenders for the coveted position of mahanta (controller of crores of rupees, followers, and properties).

"Highly suspected" -- by someone else besides you?

f. As I said already, they are constructing septic tanks on the bank of Radha Kunda and passing stool and urine there, which is leaking out into the kundas (test the water in a lab for yourself).

Have you ever heard of toilets, my friend?

I would like to know based on what the toilets of the babajis in particular are in any way different from any other toilets in India.

g. Waging political war to keep ISKCON from acquiring property in Radha Kunda.

"Political war"? Hmm... ISKCON has two properties there. Need it try to purchase the whole Radha Kund?

Explain to me why a babaji would need to get a permit to possess automatic weapons in Radha Kunda for self-defense? That is something else you can research the next time you go for bhajan.

Q. Does Lord Caitanya prefer the Uzi or the Ingram?

A. 9mm Prabhu, for the nine processes of devotion.

The only guns I've seen at Radha Kund are the ones in the hands of the hired chaukidhars in front of the new ISKCON property there. They guard the property against the gundas who come and harass the land-owner there. The new property was handed over to ISKCON care on account of the former owner's (who still maintains a word to say on the property) insufficient resources to protect it against the gundas. He knew ISKCON has sufficient resources and manpower to keep armed men 24/7 protecting the place.

Given the vicious gundas on the area, I would not wonder if anyone else also armed himself, or if anyone else hired guards. I am yet to see the uzi in Panditji's pocket though. Sounds like a rather wild proposal.

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 05-31-2002).]

Audarya lila · June 1, 2002

Dear BVI,

I have never hidden my identity or my affiliations from anyone who has asked me. I am a disciple of Sripad B.V. Tripurari Swami.

I was not defending or denigrating anyone. What I said was, 'don't condemn in a blanket fashion'. There are plenty of Iskcon 'gurus' and disciples who have specifically missed the proper ideal as well. If someone cites the examples of the drug smuggling, pedophilia, child abuse, gun slinging of Iskcon 'acharyas' etc. and uses it to condemn all those who have taken shelter of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami I hardly think that any reasonable person would find it either realistic or appropriate.

I don't believe in heresay or in blatant slander or grand standing and when I see it I will call it out. To me, this type of behavior doesn't bring dignity to our lineage, but rather it gives people more reason to avoid it.

My Guru Maharaja has written a nice little book exploring the reasons for Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's rejection of the traditional practices of Raganuga Bhakti and preaching the way he did. You may find it interesting and helpful in clarifying some fine theisitc points. The book is titled 'Sri Guru Parampara' and can be purchased on line here:

http://www.swami.org/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=A&Category_Code=B

You have been asked repeatedly who your Guru is and you have repeatedly avoided the question as if it is some big secret. I will ask it again, who is your Guru?

BTW, I agree with your specific statements regarding the offensiveness of reinitiating disciples and asking people to reject their Gurus. I am aware of some specific problems such as this and would certainly avoid associating with those who are blasphemous of my revered guides. I would not, however, go out of my way to make blanket condemnations or even specific condemnations - but rather I would simply avoid said persons. My policy is ALWAYS to give people the benefit of the doubt and I don't listen to rumor or heresay. I find out for myself first hand. If I find that someone isn't good association I avoid them, period.

There are some who are making a campaign against Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati and who continue to propagate heresay and rumor to caste doubt on his legitimacy as the heir to the divine lineage of Bhaktivinoda Thakur. I also oppose such behavior, but I choose to do so in a different manner than you have.

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa