Guru question...

souljas_1 · May 18, 2002

In Hinduism, it explains how Guru is one of the most important tools in aiding the aspirant in reaching God. However, I have some questions I would appreciate cleared up.

It's said that a Guru can remove bad karma by giving it to God through Diksha or Skaktipaat initiation (correct me if I'm wrong). But isn't the Guru invading the workings of the Cosmic Law? For instance, through the grace of the Guru, a person who in last life killed another human can have its effect negated to the point where the person suffers no punishment. Am I wrong? In Christianity, when one does a sin, the individual goes to church where he is forgiven by the priest. So, in a similar way to the Guru, the priest removes his bad karma. Moreover, it's said through the guidance of a Guru, one can reach God in this life. But, how can one realize God in this life when he still hasn't nullified the effects of his karma.

theist · May 18, 2002

Yes it is an intervention.Grace and mercy overiding eye for an eye justice.Otherwise there is no cessation of the karmic wheel;it just keeps rolling.Why? Because we are always doing something to further implicate ourselves.

In the material condition we are hopelessly exploitive of others for our own sense gratification.No real love.Real love flows from'above', from transcendence.

One who loves Krsna will naturally want our torment to end.

A merciful invasion into our process of continual suffering.We are being publicly whipped and we deserve it.Someone in the crowd, with influence, crys out "enough already, let's see if he has learned his lesson."The whipping stops.We catch our breath and rethink our lifes.Rebirth.A chance for a new life if our repentance is genuine.

karthik_v · May 18, 2002

Originally posted by souljas_1:

But, how can one realize God in this life when he still hasn't nullified the effects of his karma.

Actually, nobody can nullify the effects of karma, good or bad, by himself. That is why you need the mercy of the guru. When you surrender to a bonafide guru and get accepted by him, your past karma is taken by the guru and you are freed from its reactions. You are still prone to accumulate karma in the future by performing fruitive actions. That is why Krishna says in BG that you should dovetail even your material activities in service of Krishna. By doing so, you are not attached to any material action, but act under the guidance of the guru. That is the only way to be free from karmic reactions.

It is not that you can do anything, but the guru takes your karma away. One more thing. Even after complete surrender to the guru, you may still suffer due to prarabdha karma. Srila Prabhupad gives the anology of a fan that still rotates for a while even after being switched off. Like that, you may be fully surrendered to the guru and act 100% by his directions. Yet, due to your prarabdha karma, you may still suffer. But if you are fixed steadily in bhakti yoga, material suffering or pleasure makes no difference to you. Your suffering then, is only in the perception of this world. In Mahabharat, Bhisma was lying on a bed of arrows. The world might have thought that he was suffering, but he was oblivious to that.

Srila Prabhupad, set out to the USA in a cargo ship at the age of 70. On his way, he had 2 heart attacks. In the eyes of the world, he was suffering. Yet, when he arrived in the USA, he didn't go to any hospital. That 70 year old man cooked prasadam for 40-50 people, sang kirtans and taught every bystander who cared to lend his ears, the beauty of Krishna bhakti. He was oblivious to the pain caused by the 2 heart attacks.

So suffering and pleasure in the material world are very relative to our level of conditioning. I tend to take a day off from work, if I have a slight cold. For someone surrendered unto a guru, there is no suffering.