nachiketa Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 How do you give a rational explanation to non-devotees or even vegetarians why you abstain from onions, garlic, caffiene, etc. By rational I mean not quoting from SB or Gita, saying Krishna says so, or that it increases the mode of passion and ignorance. Especially when talking to non-Indians and westerners who have never heard of Krishna, most of them just get turned off. [This message has been edited by nachiketa2 (edited 06-03-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 These substances stimulate the body and the mind. Since we are supposed to be able to concentrate and meditate on the name, form, qualities and pastimes of the Lord, and since a peaceful mind is required for this, therefore we abstain from items which have a stimulating effect on us. That should make perfect sense. As far as the details on how for instance caffeine, onions and garlic stimulate, I invite others to contribute -- I am certain someone has already researched this, and I don't need to duplicate his efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachiketa Posted May 30, 2002 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 ok, I can understand caffiene, but personally onions and garlic never had an effect on me. So does this mean I have to stop eating spicy mexican food w/ jalepenos and food products that contain sugar, which can also be considered a stimulant, and other refined carbohydrates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajoy Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Ayurveda says "pitta" or heat imbalancing food should be avoided.When the fire element in our body gets disturbed it causes depression,anxiety,anger,fear,jealousy,falseego,intolerance,acidity,bronchitis,tiredness,etc etc.We are what we eat because foodstuff directly influence our thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Ayurveda. That's a good point. Ayurveda is definitely "in". It's respected by many Western people. You could just tell your friends that you follow an Ayurvedic diet. They are bound to consider you very cool. I have many North American friends who are interested in the modes (well, "the sattvic energy", "rajasic energy", "tamasic energy"), yoga, Indian traditions and medicine, etc. Don't feel shy of your spiritual heritage. Be proud of it. Most people will actually admire your determination, if you allow them. When I visit one store near the temple, the owner always makes a point of introducing me to others as a "priestess from the Krishna temple". They think it's absolutely neat. And what comes to onions... well, I personally never enjoyed them. In the school cafeteria (when I was a bit younger) the onion-loaded pizza heating up in the micro made me always think of sweaty armpits. Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Oh, and I just HAVE to add that people will never consider you weird (well, people worth hanging around will not) as long as they don't have a reason to think that you are somehow condemning their lifestyle, or threatening them with hellfire and brimstone. If they have no reason to feel defensive, they won't attack you. That doesn't mean you can't share your beliefs with them, or tell them about Krishna, of course. They are supposed to be your friends, after all, and want to know what is important to you in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Originally posted by Sarasvati: Ayurveda. That's a good point. Ayurveda is definitely "in". It's respected by many Western people. You could just tell your friends that you follow an Ayurvedic diet. Does Ayurveda proscribe onion and garlic? There are several Ayurvedic medicines available in India, especially meant for pregnant women, and they contain onion and garlic. In fact some churnams are primarily made up of these as they are believed to help in lactation. In general, it is a good idea to stay away from them, for spiritual reasons. But, we should ensure that we supplant them with other items that provide the nutrition these 2 provide. And that should be done scientifically. Is any member aware of the positive aspects of taking these 2? Then we can analyze what can be their substitutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Interestingly, Hieun Tsang wrote that those who wanted to consume garlic should do so outside the town. Even our dear friend Prophet Mohammad shunned garlic. Even Bible holds garlic in low esteem. Was it because, all these belonged to an era when tooth brush had not yet been introduced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Nachiketa2: If you are eating outside in the USA, you are unlikely to avoid onion and garlic. For example, if you have pizza outside, the sauce they use will have these. In fact, most vegetarian food contains animal products too. So, you are better off consuming home made food. When my wife was in India on a holiday for a few months, I used to cook once a week and store it for the rest of the week. That is anice option, if you work long hours. There are many things like pizza and burger which you can make in a few minutes. If that isn't possible, the next best optio is a vegetarian Indian restaurant. That way you can avoid eating in a restaurant that serves meat. But any Indian restaurant will use onion and garlic. I have seen a few devotees survive on bread etc., but I will never advocate extreme steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted May 30, 2002 Report Share Posted May 30, 2002 Does Ayurveda proscribe onion and garlic? Onion and garlic have certain medicinal properties. But they should be taken only when one requires that particular treatment. In ayurveda one often uses poison to counteract other poisons in the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Vegetarianism is "ïn". In my team 60% are vegetarians and the client organizs parties in Soup Plantation - a salad bar. Actually due to the good work done PETA, there are many vegetarians and vegetarian restaurants to cater to these people. If we know how to sound trendy, we can easily impress upon other people. But a better strategy is to explain that tamasic food is avoided whereas saatvic food is cherished. Just remember the sattvic qualities in BG and that you are aspiring for it. You really sound cool. As far as onion and garlic, I have personally seen that you can definitely see the effect if you abstain long enough to clear your body of the toxins and then take onion garlic again. In fact that is true of most tamasic foods. I would not advise working long that you dont have time to cook daily. Stale food is tamasic too. If you are working too long, then you must be poor. That means you are not the son of the richest person of the universe. Or you are lost. So if you seem to be working too long,chant sincerely and pray to Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Onion and garlic can be used as medicine if necessary. Garlic is a known antibiotic. But would you consider eating a pizza laced with penicillin just for fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthik_v Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: Onion and garlic have certain medicinal properties. But they should be taken only when one requires that particular treatment. In ayurveda one often uses poison to counteract other poisons in the body. That makes sense. I have heard that Ayurveda even prescribes alcohol for certain conditions, but that doesn't mean it is recommended for daily consumption. I have read somewhere [by Ayurveda doctors] that garlic is essential for lactating mothers. Have you any idea about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhakta Don Muntean Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 Quote: If you are working too long, then you must be poor. That means you are not the son of the richest person of the universe. Or you are lost. [Ram] Reply: What? "you must be lost"? So if he is poor -- he must be lost? Please clarify what exactly you meant by such a remark. Bhakta don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 About garlic and lactating mothers...phew. I wouldn't recommend. Poor baby. If one's breath and even sweat stink of garlic after eating it, what to speak of milk! Lactating mothers are adviced to avoid chilies and strong foods like that. I remember an Indian grandmother's advice to eat fennel if breastfeeding. It increases the milk-supply and helps baby's possible tummy-problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 I had some "garlic" bread once made with hing.Tasted very close and was good and yummy. I don't worry about garlic and onions myself.Actually I find they help my maintain my hermit status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2002 Report Share Posted May 31, 2002 The main reason they are rejected as part of a diet(not including medicinal uses),is the odor they cause. When you have a diet free from garlic or onions (or even yeast, or aged cheese,though less so), your bodily odor is sweet. When you ingest these other things, your bodily odor becomes not so sweet, to say the least. Especially women can experience a bad odor caused by these substances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dharma Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 It is interesting that some have noted that garlic in the homeopathic form only impacts carnivores. I am wondering if it is true for its alledged medicinal effects as well. There is a great legend about hyssop & garlic. The legend is that garlic is enslaving (probably this is so for the spirtual realm)and that any heavy garlic eating people will never be free. The legend goes that when trying to get his people free from Egypt Moses was experiencing challenges from Pharoah's high priests skilled in magic. He deemed that the people not eat garlic and ingest hyssop for some time while planning the exodus. They did so and were able to escape for some time. But the people were kind of addicted to the spice and not liking the bland diet began to beg and complain for garlic. They finally began eating it and experienced slavery once again. The legend is that hyssop is liberating while garlic is enslaving. I think the aryurvedic answer is very good. You won't have to go into extended explainations of Satvic diet. It will appease others. [This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 06-01-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Hyssop is liberating? I thought it used to be traditional flavoring in beer. I once treated my son's infection successfully with garlic (the doctor wanted to prescribe antibiotics), and he is definitely not a carnivore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Originally posted by Bhakta Don Muntean: Quote: If you are working too long, then you must be poor. That means you are not the son of the richest person of the universe. Or you are lost. [Ram] Reply: What? "you must be lost"? So if he is poor -- he must be lost? Please clarify what exactly you meant by such a remark. Bhakta don It was perhaps cryptic. Insted of explaining my allegory,let me state the meaning directly. We dont have to work too hard. If we are doing then we have to pray to Krishna to give us more time for His service so that we can be happy. And not have to eat stale food cooked over a weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Originally posted by Sarasvati: About garlic and lactating mothers...phew. I wouldn't recommend. Poor baby. If one's breath and even sweat stink of garlic after eating it, what to speak of milk! Lactating mothers are adviced to avoid chilies and strong foods like that. Garlic for lactating forced me to ask my wife's gynac. That gynac served as a leading doctor in the US and Europe before working for Apollo Hospitals, the best in India. She lauged at it. I felt so embarrassed because she always used to think I was smart because I was her computer teacher - What is the basis of garlic helping in lactation ? We can always get the same chemical from other saatvic sources. It just needs research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 She lauged at it. Most people, including doctors, are ignorant of the effects of medicines based on Ayurveda. Thus they may laugh at anything. Just because they are medical practitioners does not mean their ignorance is any less when it comes to understanding how the three doshas are affected by food within the three modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: Most people, including doctors, are ignorant of the effects of medicines based on Ayurveda. Thus they may laugh at anything. Just because they are medical practitioners does not mean their ignorance is any less when it comes to understanding how the three doshas are affected by food within the three modes. Hare Krishna. I guess you got it wrong. Actually, she was laughing at the idea of using garlic for lactation. According to her, there is no need to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2002 Report Share Posted June 1, 2002 My point is that some concepts may be popular like garlic being useful for lactatio But this may not be valid even according to modern medicine. Even if it is, there are always alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 2, 2002 Report Share Posted June 2, 2002 I guess you got it wrong. No, the point remains. If Ayurveda says garlic is beneficial for lactation, and a western educated doctor laughs at it, it is because they are ignorant of the effects of certain categories of food on the human body according to Ayurveda. I used the word "medicine" previously, because I dont consider garlic a food. [This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-02-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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