Babaji Cult Leaders With Automatic Weapons In Radha Kunda

[BVI]

If anyone wants to research this further for themselves they can contact the principal of Barshana school (Mr. Sharma I believe) about babajis in Radha Kunda possessing automatic weapons permits obtained through their connects with the Central Indian Govt., and about their possession and use of such weapons.

 

Also inquire from the local Brajabasis about the standoff in 1986 where so-called babajis armed to the teeth with machine guns opened fire on a group of 150 or so Brajabasis who were coming down the parikrama path minding their own business.

 

Just imagine a real babaji like His Divine Grace Srila Gaura Kisora Dasa Babaji Maharaja, and try to picture him toting an uzi around Radha Kunda. It is unthinkable and unimaginable for any Vaishnava.

 

How blind followers are able to support the insane rationale that they might need to resort to automatic weapons for self-protection is testimony to their degree of spiritual blindness and the babajis lack of surrender to accept Krishna as their protector.

 

Reminds me of another obnoxious cult group operating in the name of ISKCON that kept guard dogs in the temple. You see I am fair. I will attack any nonsense, no matter which side of the fence it was passed.

 

This Radha Kunda Babaji program has all the trappings of a cult. Now we even have 21st century Babaji apologists defending leaky septic tanks spewing stool in the Kunda, and instead of launching an investigation they shamelessly blame poor Brajabasi women for allowing their children to pass stool in the kunda.

 

This is typical of the Bengali and Bangladesi babaji rhetoric against the Brajabasis, who they and their followers are always condemning as gundas, and unclean persons. They have no appreciation for the Brajabasis despite Mahaprabhu's warning to His devotees not to criticize them. They are training their disciples in Brajabasi aparadha and posts in other topics by their supports have confirmed this.

 

The fact is that when Rajeev Ghandi implemented the forced sterilization policy in India, Srila Prabhupada explained how the Mathura police immediately went to Radha Kunda to arrest the babajis and had them taken in for forced sterilization, because he explains that "They knew that these babajis were utilizing their genitals."

 

Even today the Brajabasis who express genuine feelings for ISKCON and Gaudiya Math continue to confirm their knowlege of the same charges filed 70 years ago by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, that these babajis are keeping women, associating with women intimately and having sex.

 

The Brajabasis have all but cut off these "mosquitos" (as they call them) from madhukari, but they can't because they are too cultured. So now the madhukari in Radha Kunda is cut down to half a capati at best according to the babajis followers who now go to other villages that are not yet burnt out begging spots like Mukharai, where they are not as familiar with their erotic materialiastic style of bhajan mixed with bullets. It certainly is a documentary waiting to happen.

 

It is not for the reason of convenience that the Six Gosvamis chose to pass stool 2 kilometers away from Radha Kunda. It was out of respect, shame, shyness and love for Radha Kunda. Convenience and low-tech facilities would only demand going a few meters away, at most a hundred, like the locals used to do (Mala Kunj west of the kunda past the burning ghat).

 

There is no superiority in passing stool in your place of worship and the place of Krishna eternal lila because you figured out how to violate dharma sastra and pass stool and urine in water. It only shows your pride and lack of culture and perverted contaminated Western values, which places laziness (aka convenience) over respect for others (Radha and Krishna in this case, whose favorite lila place is now a place for passing stool stanking with odur and urine smell.)

 

Take a practical lesson from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta if you can't swallow his philosophical pill, and go see his bhajana kutir, where he continues to preach this essential lesson by keeping an open western toilet in his bhajan room where he chanted (the partial partition blocking the toilet was a concocted addition to the toilet after his departure).

 

He saw the lack of enthusiasm and the lack of genuine devotion when he saw the babajis passing stool at the kunda, but he was too cultured to sling that mud verbally, so he tried to get his message through with graphics like a gentleman by installing the toilet which doesn't actually function, it is a preaching prop to make a point, that has yet to be realized after 70 years.

 

I am not going to even pretend to be so cultured and especially when his beautiful name is being attacked by these up-start junior stool-slingers who pack machine guns and throw their stool into the waters of my object of worship.

 

Get the babajis off the banks of Radha Kunda and into the jungle with the monkeys so that all their objectives can be fulfilled without having to disturb the pastimes. Or at least their followers can convince them to stop the eco-terrorism of Radha Kunda by emptying out and filling in the septic tanks and taking them on a japa walk, or a siddha pranali walk (whatever they do) to the place where the Gosvamis showed all future potential residents of Radha Kunda where and how to dodo it. If they claim to be their followers, then why don't they also follow the Six Gosvamis to the toilet?

 

This is the sahajiya mentality, they want a cheap and easy process. Cheap guru who praises you, cheap mantra, cheap process, cheap siddha deha, and cheap bullets for your automatic weapons.

 

Radha Kunda is for tapasya not for sense gratifying 21st century toilet flushers. Many of them are looking rather fatty, especially the Panda, and a 2km walk daily, or thrice daily depending on his diet, would be a perventative measure against diabetes (caused by over eating). Of course the mean nasty gundas might get him while he is out walking. But Radharani is in control right, or is it the new philosophy of 21st century ballistics? Peace through superior fire power?

 

I don't see much difference between these bogus eco-terrorist babjis and the terrorists infiltrating India, only that the Pakistani counterparts claim Jihad and fire real bullets, while the babjis fire volleys of Radhe Radhe, which are, as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, empty shells, not bullets, but blanks. The letters are coming out, but it is not the holy name, not when you are passing stool in the Kunda.

 

Which real Vaishnava will ever accept such filthy slothful animals in the guise of humans who cannot take a 1 mile japa walk (or get their disciples to transport the odur for them if they are invalid) in order to maintain the sanctity of the topmost place in the creation, as the top-most men?

 

Their intelligence has become bewildered by their offenses against Brajabasis. Now Maya has made an ass out of them by convincing them to follow the western ways of passing stool on water (now the most sacred water) in violation of their smarta rules of cleanliness and ritual they are so attached to.

 

They routinely criticize and ridicule the simple and natural Brajabasis who naturally and spontaneously remember Krishna with affection, and are not in the least bit attracted to or interested in their dry process.

 

What do more than a hundred Radha Kunda brajabasis chant every morning in their own spontaneous nagar-sankirtana around Radha Kunda for two hours before sunrise as their favorite song? "Jaya radha madhava jaya kunja bihari" by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jagat]

Also inquire from the local Brajabasis about the standoff in 1986 where so-called babajis armed to the teeth with machine guns opened fire on a group of 150 or so Brajabasis who were coming down the parikrama path minding their own business.

 

Rambo Das Babaji and Terminator Das Babaji. Were they friends of Hamsaduta? Did they chant "Jaya Radha Madhava" for two hours before or after they opened fire? Maybe it was the influence of a Bhaktivinoda song that has corrupted their pure intentions.

 

The ecological problem is one that is everywhere in Vrindavan. It needs to be dealt with by people who know what they are doing.

 

There have been conflicts between Babajis and Brajavasis over the ownership of the Kund. The Brijvasi Pandas claim ownership so they can make more money from it.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Jagat (edited 06-02-2002).]

[Jagat]

"the trappings of a cult"

 

Please explain.

[Jagat]

It was Sanjay Gandhi, not Rajeev. But the abuses of the sterilization program are documented way beyond that. They were sterilizing old men to make their quotas.

[raga]

In the Sri Caitanya Matha, the original matha of Bhaktisiddhanta, the devotees believe that Radha Kunda, Shyama Kunda and Giriraja Govardhana have manifest there due to the spiritual power of Bhaktisiddhanta. Either nowadays or during the times of Bhaktisiddhanta, did the residents there walk two kilometers outside the place to pass stool? And if so, did they pass stool in plastic bags there and carry them outside the Gaura Mandala? The entire dhama is made of cintamani, don't forget. Not only one particular place. Let us try to get a life and let's rather address some substantial concerns.

<small><font color=#CCCCCC>

 

[This message has been edited by raga (edited 06-02-2002).]

[raga]

In regards to Vrajavasis etc. you may be curious to know that most of the present-day Vrajavasis have come to Radhakund from outside of Vraja. After Raghunatha Das Gosvami and Jiva Gosvami made arrangements for securing the Radha Kund area from the back-then Muslim ruler, for a few centuries the residents of Radha Kund consisted of practically only Babajis. Due to the Muslim rule, everyone had to respect Sri Radha Kund as the place of the saints.

 

However, when the rule changed to the British rule, a lot of people were brought in from outside the Vraja, and no-one respected the certificate given by the Muslim ruler. People came in and occupied land by force. Since then, the newcomer Vrajavasis have on several occasions claimed Radha Kund as their property, and by force restricted the babajis from bathing there. On occasions this has led to fights when pilgrims from Rajasthan for instance have objected to this and stood up against the locals in favor of the babajis, who were not keen of rising a riot over it.

 

Overall, considering the history of people immigrating to the babajis' bhajan-sthali and starting to make money there, either in regular business or in pilgrim business, and importing a world of sensual attractions there, it should be no wonder that there may be some ill feelings between the sadhu community and the locals. Of course this does not count for the Vrajavasis who have genuine honor for the life and precepts of Sri Caitanya and the six Gosvamis.

[BVI]

Rambo Das Babaji and Terminator Das Babaji. Were they friends of Hamsaduta? Did they chant "Jaya Radha Madhava" for two hours before or after they opened fire?

Maybe it was the influence of a Bhaktivinoda song that has corrupted their pure intentions.

No the Vrajabasis chant that song, not the trigger-happy babajis.

 

The ecological problem is one that is everywhere in Vrindavan. It needs to be dealt with by people who know what they are doing.

Okay you can try to minimize it, but if they want the prestige of being the owners and mahants of the kunda then why aren't they taking leadership and initiative to solve the problems? They are taking in millions of dollars, yet there is nothing practical to show for in Radha Kunda seva, which is practically done by the brajabasi pandas.

 

The babajis are just plain miserly. They offer Radha Kunda mustard oil lamps instead of ghee when they are rolling in millions of dollars. They don't even pay their taxes to the Radha Kunda community for basic community services they take advantage of, and for that they are going to legally lose their claim to ownership and get kicked out by Radharani for flagrant abuses, offenses, and smug defiance of local law and order, which Mahaprabhu never approved of. They have become too proud and the Brajabasis are reaching their limit.

 

They think their automatic weapons will protect them and that they can maintain their position in the Kunda by force, but the last time I heard, Radharani was in control and She ain't afraid of no bullets.

 

Because of their antisocial behavior no on in Radha Kunda or Vrindavan is willing to rent a room to a Bengali due to their cunning attempt to seize property and not pay rent tying up property in court cases for years. Even the babajis of Radha Kunda who own asramas have stated their unwillingness to rent rooms to Bengalis and even their own people.

 

There have been conflicts between Babajis and Brajavasis over the ownership of the Kund. The Brijvasi Pandas claim ownership so they can make more money from it.

That's the crux of the problem, both claim ownership, but actually Radharani is the owner. No one wants to be a steward or a real manjari and clean it up. Internal manjari and external king.

 

Everyone wants ownership and the attendant profits to be earned, and the babajis are no exception to that. I am sure there are even ISKCON wallas who would like to get in on that action. Actually, I know there are such persons and they are being dealt with as well. I am not partial when it comes to rascals. But you would be incorrect if you conclude that the Brajabasis are heartless entrepanuers.

 

I find that they have more appreciation and love for our tradition than even we or the babajis do. They are loving people and not as much politicians and philosophers. If they find your are a hypocrite, like they have concluded with the babajis, then they will work against you socially, politically, and economically for sure. They also have a sense of keeping the sanctity of the Kunda and purity of the holy dhama. They are very religious people.

 

But if they love you they will refuse to accept a paisa from you when you go to their store. This happened to Srila Prabhupada's devotees when they first came to Vrindavan and Radha Kunda and tried to purchase things, the brajabasis refused to accept their money and insisted that they take whatever they need for free as a gift of love and appreciation.

 

We need to bring that back to Vrindavan and Radha Kunda with genuine devotee appreciation of the brajabasis and proper interactions and dealings devoid of duplicity and hypocrasy. I have faith it can and will be done. The onus is on the followers of Mahaprabhu to rectify the past and the relationships. We cannot hold the brajabasis accountable for how we have made them.

 

They were pure and simple when we came and whatever they are now is a direct result of our actions and influence (plus some help from the cable TV), our contribution of karmic and social terrorism against the holy dhama and the residents there, the basis of Vraja.

 

We have to treat it like an endangered species protected sanctuary and be sure we do not negatively impact or disturb the delicate culture or environment when we visit there, which is the heart of the people.

 

We should be encouraging them in bhakti, but we see they are getting encouraged in so many other ways by our influence. We need to become like them, not demand that they so-called evolve to the 21st century.

 

Jagatji, I appreciate your attempts to referee this match, but you just don't know enough of what is going on there to make the calls. I still appreciate your efforts anyway.

 

I know you are trying to be borad minded, fair, liberal and kind to all, but this is not a tennis match, it is an all-out war that maybe Srila Bhaktisiddhanta started in reponse to seeing their pitiable condition.

 

The war is not against the babajis, they are the victims, the war is against Maya, which has them defeated. When you take a shot at the kidnapper it only appears you are shooting at the hostage. Please try to see the difference.

 

They are posing a serious problem in Radha Kunda for the brajabasis, ISKCON, the Gaudiya Math, Narayana Maharaja and other Gaudiya Vaishnavas, by stealing disciples, poisoning minds, and creating social disturbances like eco-terrorism, land disputes, tax evasion, and so on, and I predict that there will be a day very soon when they will be forced out with an equal or greater force than they have been exerting to remain there.

 

In fact they have this guarantee as my complete blessings. It is the best thing for them. Then maybe they will come to appreciate what they had and lost.

 

The Brajabasis are just waiting patiently for the right opportunity and if India goes to war, that might be it. Radha Kunda is very far from the babaji's birth place and in the chaos they won't get much support from their central govt chelas who will be busy at the border.

 

If I were a babaji I would seriously consider going back to Mahaprabhu's place and chant the holy name where offenses are overlooked and the top most results can be achieved by even Jagai and Madhai by Lord Nityananda's grace.

 

Give up a battle to win the war is probably going to be their best policy. Things are going to get very nasty there I suspect if they try to continue to remain by force.

 

I am just a reporter. It you don't like the news turn the channel. I am just doing my service to protect devotees from the poison of Naraka Kunda Babas, who think they are living at Radha Kunda and chanting the holy name. It is not so cheap and easy as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta pointed out. Feel free to disagree, and of course, this is not meant to be a blanket statement about all babajis, there may be a good one out there I missed, and to the rest, if the shoe fits wear it.

 

Your Servant

 

 

[BVI]

Raga, you obviously have a one-sided view and anyone can see that you are a blind follower who has been poisoned by their rhetoric. These so-called followers of Mahaprabhu has zero appreciation for the Brajavasis who they are locked into an ongoing hot and cold war with. This is not a symptom of a follower of Mahaprabhu. They are deviant materialistic cheap imitators and you are their proud follower who has done absolutely nothing to propagate this sankirtana movement, only parrot foolishness in the name of philosophy raga and rasa to derail it. Get a spiritual life and get back into ISKCON. Your time is running out.

 

 

[BVI]

The quote below is testimony to my statements that the Babajis have poisoned the minds of their followers against the brajabasis. Just see the arrogance and gaul these puffed up rascals have in their view of the Brajabasis. Because they came generations ago the one's present today were not born in Vraja? What is your answer rascal? Practically every Brajabasi I know with the exception of some ksatriya families from Rajasthan can trace their family back to Gautama Rishi or some other lineage and their roots are all fixed in Vraja. Your nonsense proposal you are vomiting here from your Pandas is a license to pack uzis and commit Vaishnava and Brajabasi aparadha? If you and especially your Panda are so absorbed in your sidha deha how did you come to know all this political stuff from the babajis? Don't they talk about 'more substantial' stuff than feeding you with arguments to hate the Brajabasis? These rascals are finished. It is just a matter of time. Maya is making an ass out of you and all the other weak and foolish persons they have cheated.

 

 

Originally posted by raga:

In regards to Vrajavasis etc. you may be curious to know that most of the present-day Vrajavasis have come to Radhakund from outside of Vraja. After Raghunatha Das Gosvami and Jiva Gosvami made arrangements for securing the Radha Kund area from the back-then Muslim ruler, for a few centuries the residents of Radha Kund consisted of practically only Babajis. Due to the Muslim rule, everyone had to respect Sri Radha Kund as the place of the saints.

 

However, when the rule changed to the British rule, a lot of people were brought in from outside the Vraja, and no-one respected the certificate given by the Muslim ruler. People came in and occupied land by force. Since then, the newcomer Vrajavasis have on several occasions claimed Radha Kund as their property, and by force restricted the babajis from bathing there. On occasions this has led to fights when pilgrims from Rajasthan for instance have objected to this and stood up against the locals in favor of the babajis, who were not keen of rising a riot over it.

 

Overall, considering the history of people immigrating to the babajis' bhajan-sthali and starting to make money there, either in regular business or in pilgrim business, and importing a world of sensual attractions there, it should be no wonder that there may be some ill feelings between the sadhu community and the locals. Of course this does not count for the Vrajavasis who have genuine honor for the life and precepts of Sri Caitanya and the six Gosvamis.

 

[raga]

quote:

--

The ecological problem is one that is everywhere in Vrindavan. It needs to be dealt with by people who know what they are doing.

--

 

Okay you can try to minimize it, but if they want the prestige of being the owners and mahants of the kunda then why aren't they taking leadership and initiative to solve the problems? They are taking in millions of dollars, yet there is nothing practical to show for in Radha Kunda seva, which is practically done by the brajabasi pandas.

I am yet to see the millions of dollars, when sometimes there is struggle to get funds together for publishing a book.

 

As you may have heard, all of Radha Kund and Shyama Kund is emptied on regular intervals, and the pond is cleansed, after which it is filled again by the natural springs on the bottom of the Kunda. This is coordinated by the sadhu community.

 

In April-May, a lot of slippery substance accumulates on the underwater steps of Radha Kund. The sadhus we see scrubbing it off to avoid the pilgrims slipping and hurting themselves.

 

Daily Radha Kund banks are washed with water. It is the sadhus along with one local brahmin devotee whom I see taking the buckets and cleaning the banks.

 

 

quote:

--

 

There have been conflicts between Babajis and Brajavasis over the ownership of the Kund. The Brijvasi Pandas claim ownership so they can make more money from it.

--

 

That's the crux of the problem, both claim ownership, but actually Radharani is the owner. No one wants to be a steward or a real manjari and clean it up. Internal manjari and external king.

I would rather not attribute faults to Raghunatha and Jiva Gosvamis for obtaining Radha Kund as their legal property. The certificate from the Muslim ruler is still available at Vrindavan Research Institute for everyone to see, as well as Jiva's will, where he testaments the Radha Kund property onwards to the next generation's representative.

 

 

Everyone wants ownership and the attendant profits to be earned, and the babajis are no exception to that. I am sure there are even ISKCON wallas who would like to get in on that action. Actually, I know there are such persons and they are being dealt with as well. I am not partial when it comes to rascals. But you would be incorrect if you conclude that the Brajabasis are heartless entrepanuers.

Speak not of the quarrels the local pandas have over the pilgrims who come over for a visit. Western pilgrims means big money. 11 KG rice for Radhakund seva, 11 KG for Shyamakund seva, 5 KG for milksweet-seva and donation for the pujari, and you end up paying Rs. 600 for the quick puja you never asked for, and would have preferred to do it in peace, not with all your luggage on the banks of the kunda, just coming from the airport without taking a shower. Not that everyone is like that, but for the most part it is big-time business there with the pilgrims.

 

 

Feel free to disagree, and of course, this is not meant to be a blanket statement about all babajis, there may be a good one out there I missed, and to the rest, if the shoe fits wear it.

Though you are in the mood to slander Ananta Das Pandit, you are yet to show any of your claims as true with any decent standard of evidence.

 

[BVI]

Originally posted by raga:

Though you are in the mood to slander Ananta Das Pandit, you are yet to show any of your claims as true with any decent standard of evidence.

Well I am glad you have stopped calling him Babaji. But if he is a learned pandita, why is his toilet leaking stool into the kunda? I mean he is the legal owner of the toilets and owner means responsible, right? You get that garbage cleaned up pronto, then you talk about bhava and philosophy, otherwise you are just a nonsense sahajiya rambling on about something you will never realize in thousands of lifetimes. DO SOMETHING PRACTICAL FOR RADHA KUNDA, shut down the septic tanks and then discuss other matters. It is only going to take one good earth quake to finish off those tanks which will crack and spew untold gallons of raw sewage into the Kundas. Is that what you want to wait for and waste time arguing with me to see happen? Where is the question of Pandita if you can't even manage to keep your fecal matter out of Radharani's lake, what to speak of babaji, or worse yet manjari?

 

WHAT IS THE VALUE OF YOUR SERVICE WHEN YOU ARE PASSING STOOL IN RADHA KUNDA? IT IS ZERO.

 

Lots of Pandita followers, even millions, but what does a million zeros add up to?

 

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

000000000000000000000000

 

Take care of this problem and take credit for it and make your pandit a hero, otherwise in the spiritual accounting office you, your pandita and all his followers are a big ZERO.

 

 

[This message has been edited by BVI (edited 06-02-2002).]

[raga]

Your objections are of a very serious, profound nature. Radha Kund Babajis are bogus sahajiyas because there are alleged defects in their toilet arrangements (as if they were any different from anyone else's around there).

 

How did we forget about the discussion on siddha-pranali and the teachings of Bhaktivinoda? I thought that was one of the real issues. Strange.

[raga]

I appreciate your grand expression, but please at least cut the row of zeros in smaller chunks, because otherwise the thread becomes impossible to read, since the texts all go half a meter outside the screen. Use the "Edit" button and amend the text accordingly. Thanks.

[BVI]

First you accept and correct yourself by following Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and Srila Prabhupada, then you can discuss Srila Bhaktivinoda. You want to jump over the immediate acarya and make some sentimental claim to following the superior acarya.

 

This is Vasihnava aparadha and impertinent and intolerable offense. You have no relationship, no access and no standing with Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. You obviously don't have a philosophical leg to stand on within your own sampradaya. But why imitate and cut and paste from our gurus?

 

Either you and your Pandita come and surrender to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura's current representative in genuine humility as become bona fide followers or mind your own nonsense business. You are only trying to take strength from our acaryas to do politics and try to win arguments, but that isn't the process.

 

You admit Bhaktivinoda is the superior acarya, so why not surrender to him in the proper way? Don't remain a hodge-podge. i am glad you have appreciation for my guru, but your approach it kaccha, or half-baked.

 

If I am to discuss philosophy with you then there has to be a basis of authority from which to discuss for understanding not arguing, and the etiquette is that the junior inquires submissively from the senior if he wants to learn, and the senior reveals the confidential knowledge to the point he has realized it.

 

That is what it means to discuss as a follower of Srila Rupa Gosvami. You are not properly approaching through the authorized process, another proof of Srila Prabhupada's statement in Nectar of Devotion that the siddha pranali people are not authorized, nor are they followers of Srila Rupa Gosvami. You are concocting your own process. I cannot discuss with you until to submit to the bona fide process and accept my gurus as the basis of authoritative knowledge.

 

I do not associate with pretenders, offenders of my gurus, sahajiyas or nonsense-I try to rescue such drowning dogs by preaching to them to catch up the lotus feet of all my gurus, not just the ones that they mistakenly think support their nonsense. I will be happy to associate with you and explain anything you want to know more about provided that you follow the process and surrender to at least give up the camp you are presently aligned with.

 

Your Servant

 

[This message has been edited by BVI (edited 06-02-2002).]

[Jagat]

It is nice that we have someone to speak for the Vrajavasis at Radha Kund.

 

It is a burden to have to defend every idiot who happens to call himself a Babaji and happens to live at Radha Kund. As soon as we start speaking monolithincally of Babajis as a blanket category because this one or that one has done or said something, we are in a dangerous space. This appears to be the kind of territory we are on here.

 

When we see this kind of stereotyping, it is usually the result of something other than clear thinking. There is little doubt in my mind that there is something racial going on between Bengalis and Vrajavasis, and this is augmented by economic considerations, etc. Radha Kund is a possible source of profitable income from pilgrims and both Babajis and Vrajavasis profit from it.

 

Bengalis are stereotyped as miserly compared to other Indian races. This is fairly well known. It is also true that many of the Bengali Babas at Radha Kund come from rather unfavored social backgrounds. They have, however, accepted a life of poverty, so we can hardly condemn them. After all, would we have condemned Raghunath Das for only offering a shallow leaf-bowl of ghol to his Giriraj?

 

As far as the Vrajavasis only giving a small bit of madhukari, this is a natural result of economics. There are more babajis than the local economy can support. Some babajis walk ten fifteen miles to find a village where they can do madhukari and actually get enough to eat.

 

But heck, I was a white (not a Bengali) babaji in Puchari, where there was little competition and I used to go nuts. The people are poor. I went weeks without getting any subji. One day I came to the house of a very poor man who was celebrating some special occasion and had prepared a feast--chapatis and sweet rice. He was happy to give me a little of his thin sweet rice and he said, "ye sab bhagavAn kA vaibhav hai." It was one of the most touching things I had ever experienced.

 

If you're a babaji, that's what you've got to expect. You don't become a beggar to eat ghee off golden plates. But being a beggar is not a high status job, as even the Vaishnavas don't want it. They'd rather have singhasans and payasanna.

 

Radha Kund is Raghunath Das's home. Now we condemn the few rare souls who attempt to follow that tradition because they don't use ghee lamps. sei ram-o nai, sei ram-rajya-o nai.

 

But on the whole, BVI, I appreciate your concern, especially for the cleanliness of Radha Kund and the local sewage treatment. Perhaps you should get in touch with Friends of Vrindavan and see whether you can do something constructive. If you organize something, I will certainly become your humble servant and try to do something to help.

 

I am thinking of setting up some kind of local branch office. Have you read Ranchor Prime's book?

 

Jai Radhe!

[Jagat]

BVI, Raga means go into your original message where you put all those zeros and edit it. That will correct the problem.

[Prema108]

Didn't BVI come here to act as our guru or guide into his secret realizations, and help us appreciate his secret guru? He has done nothing but attack others and their spiritual paths. He has made politics his religious platform. If BVI has nothing to say other than these accusations he keeps repeating I respectfully request him to please end the discussion and concentrate on the earth shattering mystical experiences he claimed to have and wanted to share.

[raga]

Getting back to what appears to be the main concern over Radha Kund Babajis -- their toilet arrangements -- I sincerely believe that the Babajis were not the architects who designed the infrastructure of the Radha Kund village and its sewage arrangements. The toilet arrangements probably developed sometime after the beginning of the British rule, when Radha Kund began to be immigrated by people from elsewhere, and a need for structuring the city eventually came about, along with the septic tanks and the rest of the sewage system.

 

But what about siddha pranali and the teachings of Bhaktivinoda?

 

[raga]

I cannot discuss with you until to submit to the bona fide process and accept my gurus as the basis of authoritative knowledge.

So, your gurus? This is the fourth time the question is being asked: who is your guru?

 

 

Get a spiritual life and get back into ISKCON. Your time is running out.

By the way, are you GBC approved?

 

[Rati]

Looks like they have you over a barrel on the Brajbasi side of the equation, BVI. I am sure you are correct about the majority of the residents born in the dhAma (or at least a third of them - don't really know), but what about those that make dacoit their occupation? We are supposed to respect the monkeys too, but they have been known to attack sAdhus sitting peacefully and taking kRSNa prasAda and biting them in the jugular vein (an obvious attempt to kill the humans for food).

 

A little bit of information on septic tanks, for the plumbing impaired. When properly designed, they hold waste in a tank and have a septic field overhead. In the USA they are by law to be installed a safe distance from any wells. The tanks are maintained by a service that empties them periodically. Seems like quite an improvement over stool fields where the waste is lying out in the open and liable to be spread around with each heavy rain, spreading cholera and other nastiness. Obviously the type of sewers with pipes (actually used in anient Egypt) are superior, but far more costly to build and maintain. Your vision of plumbing free outhouses or open latrines (whatever your technologically impaired mind has concocted) is a throwback to horrible times and a prescription for hell on earth, BVI. I suppose you keep a small herd of those scrawny Vrindavan hogs to follow you around and tidy up whenever you feel a call to nature. Hah!

 

 

[This message has been edited by Rati (edited 06-02-2002).]

[Rati]

BVI, perhaps the best solution is the approach they have taken in other parts of the world with respect to ancient archaeological sites: Only allowing people in on guided tours and not allowing anyone to reside on the actual site. Of course, that might upset your friends the Brajabasis when they have to find somewhere else nearby to live. I personally do not have a problem with such restrictions, for it still gives the devotees the opportunity to spend their waking hours on the site for bhajan, and having to hike it to a WC is an inconvenience we can all live with.

 

[Rati]

There is one thing that always reminds me of India: Whenever I visit the zoo and my nose is assaulted by the overpowering stench of animal manure.

 

If BVI had his way, we could all enjoy that 'lovely' experience 24/7 worldwide. But then what do I know? Perhaps he is the acharya of waste management waiting to be recognized for his self-effulgence.

 

 

[raga]

They are deviant materialistic cheap imitators and you are their proud follower who has done absolutely nothing to propagate this sankirtana movement, only parrot foolishness in the name of philosophy raga and rasa to derail it.

Hmm... let's count the scores, as this is what counts. Here's my estimated scores-sheet:

 

- - - - -

- ISKCON -

- - - - -

Maha-big books: 500

Big books: 4000

Medium books: 150

Recordings: 10000

Small books, magazines: 200

Flyers, posters: 55000

- - - - - - - -

- - - - -

- - - - - - - -

- Gaudiya Matha -

- - - - - - - -

Maha-big and big books: 200

Medium and small books: 4000

E-books (website): 7500

Individual visitors (three websites): 20000

- - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - -

[here I am shifting from streets to cyber highway]

- - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - -

- Babaji Camp -

- - - - - - - - -

E-books (website): 3500 and counting

Visitors: 15000 and counting

[hard copies of books are yet to come]

- - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - -

 

Good for nothing? How many more do I need until I have the credit for going back to Godhead?

 

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[This message has been edited by raga (edited 06-02-2002).]

[BVI]

Originally posted by raga:

Getting back to what appears to be the main concern over Radha Kund Babajis -- their toilet arrangements -- I sincerely believe that the Babajis were not the architects who designed the infrastructure of the Radha Kund village and its sewage arrangements. The toilet arrangements probably developed sometime after the beginning of the British rule, when Radha Kund began to be immigrated by people from elsewhere, and a need for structuring the city eventually came about, along with the septic tanks and the rest of the sewage system.

 

"Probably"? The fact is that there are two bona fide systems for Radha Kunda. One for followers of Mahaprabhu and one for Brajabasis. Everything else is a recent concoction. Septic tanks, open sewers, and all this nonsense is concoction.

 

The followers of Mahaprabhu get to take the longer walk, and the Brajabasis get to take the shorter walk to Mala Kunja (behind the burning ghat). Get to know the Brajabasis and they will explain everything. They are beautiful people if you approach them properly. But I also admit, you should not get too close. Learn how to benefit from the fire of their presence without getting burnt. If you try to do business in the holy dhama against regulations then you will probably get cheated. They know how. But their cheating means to offer something extra to their Giriraja, whereas your cheating will probably result in your own sense gratification.

 

The six Gosvamis were not so arrogant to think they could imitate the Brajabasis by passing stool in their designated area, walking on Govardhan Hill, and so on. They were respected as different, special, and beyond criticism, only to be served and appreciated. Where is that verse by any Gosvami criticising any Vrajabasi? Rather we see, "Even if they just talk all gossips with me, I will remain there with them in Vraja, no where else." This is the bona fide feelings of a follower of Mahaprabhu. Not, "Babaji Maharaja says we need automatic weapons to protect ourselves from these so-called newly immigrated Vrajabasi gundas who have nothing better to do than bathe their filthy children in our lake that we own, and cut into our profits by their panda racket of Brajabasi-seva."

 

The fact is that the Brajabasi Panda actually do Brajabasi seva with those donations they collect at the kunda. Anyone who comes to their home will be fed, even a babaji. How someone can take food from the hand of such a brajabasi brahmana and then criticize his sitting out all day in the extreme climate of the kunda working hard to help people properly respect the kunda by doing pujas for their benefit, it certainly shameless ingratitude. Every occupation has some fault Krishna says in Gita, and for the brajabasi pandas it is having to coerce uncultured andm iserly kali yugites how to properly respect the kunda, and they do that successfully. In return they get the time-honored brahmanas dakshina. That is the culture and the ancient system and tradition. They are not cheap imitators or concocters. They are doing their prescribed duty, albeit with some imperfections. But they are beyond our criticism. You have to become a brajabasi bramana tirtha guru panda in order to criticize them. If you don't like their system take bath somewhere else.

 

For the brajabasis there is no discrimination. They have faith in Radharani. The babajis of Ananta Panda on the other hand are so sectarian they only feed their people in their daily free lunch. Even ISKCON has more culture than the babajis. They do food for life for anyone and anyone without discrimination on a regular basis.

 

The babajis have made a not-so-gorgeous arrangement for the happiness of a few people only, and Srila Prabhupada says that means "demon" (like Indira Gandhi and Company). Real religion means to see that everyone becomes happy, and the babajis have done a piss poor job of even pleasing the brajabasis who are kindly allowing them to reside there. They have some cleaning up to do in all sections of the kunda.

 

Read Manah Siksha verse one on how to get direct service, "Develop unprecendented love for the Brajabasis..." Where is that love if you are finding fault in them and keeping guns for shooting them? Where is the realization? Where is the direct service? Where is the raganuga with priti and purva-kama?

 

Better let them kill you if it is your karma and Radharani's desire than to even think of harming them in any way. As Srila Prabhupada says, a devotee is never harmful. Harmful means demon. ISKCON at least hires other local Brajabasis to protect their property and that is the proper way to deal with those issues.

 

Why a babaji would pack an automatic weapon to eventually kill or injure a Brajabasi means he has overstayed his welcome in Vraja. Time to go home to Bangladesh and live amongst the 90% muslims there and do some serious introspection. Then maybe they can come back with fresh appreciation of how sweet and wonderful it is to still have Brajabasis to live amongst.

 

There is no question of advanced devotion, even at the stage of sadhana within the hearts of such offenders. When you see a Brajabasi outside of Vraja your heart should melt and tears should come to your eyes, not suspicions of whether his family arrived in Vraja just 15 generations ago instead of 500. This is just material vision and offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself, but it appears you are a shameless offender and pretender.

 

[sha]

Originally posted by Prema108:

 

Didn't BVI come here to act as our guru or guide into his secret realizations, and help us appreciate his secret guru? He has done nothing but attack others and their spiritual paths. He has made politics his religious platform. If BVI has nothing to say other than these accusations he keeps repeating I respectfully request him to please end the discussion and concentrate on the earth shattering mystical experiences he claimed to have and wanted to share.

Good suggestion! Thanks for reminding the readers and the moderator.