Beyond Positive Thinking

[Gauracandra]

Beyond Positive Thinking

 

This week’s Siddhaswarupananda program is about the Positive Thinking Movement. The Positive Thinking Movements begin with the notion that one should have a high estimation of oneself. We should not consider that we have limits in our lives as these are negative thoughts. If you actually observe these individuals however you will note that they are in fact in constant anxiety. They have to constantly battle against being negative and always having a smile on their face. They see negativity as the grand enemy – like the Devil.

 

And so they establish all sorts of games in order to stay in “positive thinking land”. But they are never actually happy. One positive thinking group was run by a “Father Divine”. This group said that disease and death is only due to negative thinking. So when someone gets sick, they have anxiety about having anxiety. Thus there is a continual battle to stay afloat. If they see someone dying they want to deny it because death is negative. This will make them afraid, that they too can die.

 

This becomes a continual battle to stay on top of everything but not being able to be on top of everything. You will notice that positive thinking is always about the body. It is to get more wealth, or health, or a better mate, to become smarter, or such. They will tell you “If you think you’re going to get cancer then you’ll get cancer.” And if by chance you get cancer you beat yourself up “Why was I thinking negatively?”

 

Such people never want to admit that they are not in complete control. It is in fact an “I-Am-God-Game”. But because I am not actually God things don’t always go the way I want them to go. One group called the Sylvia Mind Control group tells people that there are no limits to your power. This is nonsense. Of course there are limits. If not then you are saying you are God.

 

The only thing they can do is try. And when they fail – which they always do – they’ll make believe they wanted to fail as a learning experience.

 

Positive thinking in essence means you try to make the world move according to your will. But you are not God and the individual’s will is not all powerful. So you end up always worried. You have no actual refuge. Essentially they deny the existence of the Supreme Controller by placing themselves in the position of the supreme.

 

What sorts of people go to these positive thinking seminars? [audience member says business people]. So business people go because they want more money, more material enjoyment. But they’ll never get everything they want. You’ll see testimonials like “Through positive thinking I made $200,000”. So what? Are you happy?

 

This is their idea that if they think positively they will get some material enjoyment and from this happiness. So negative to them means material poverty, dying… these are the things to run from. But a person cannot be in this world and be happy so long as they are away from God. The Supreme Person is actually always there as the controller and friend of everyone. But if we don’t recognize this friend then we cannot actually be happy.

 

So positive thinkers are in a position where they aren’t really positive thinkers. They are constantly dwelling about how to avoid being negative. They don’t transcend the negative. The live in a world of positive and negative, good karma and bad karma. But it can be transcended. How? By understanding our relationship with the Supreme Person.

 

There is a Supreme Being who is beyond both positive and negative. If I accept the will of God and dovetail my will with his, then I too transcend the positive and negative. Then there is no more anxiety. Positive thinking means thinking things will go your way. Don’t worry about this. Transcendental thinking means not worrying about this.

 

Everyone has desires, but make your desires those of God. Dovetail your desires with the will of God. When you do this you will know that “I don’t need to be in control. God is in control. Everything is in God’s hands”. Then you will no longer have to worry. All you need to do is serve God. If you do this then you will transcend the positive and negative thinking.

 

[Program ends. Voice comes up explaining how we can transcend positive and negative thinking. It is through the Holy Names of the Lord that we will have no more anxiety. Two Bible verse are given:

 

Psalms 54:1 “Save me, O God, by thy name, and judge me by thy strength.”

 

Psalms 124:8 “Our help is in the name of the Lord, who made heaven and earth”

 

A short kirtan of the names “Gopala Govinda Rama, Madana Mohana” closes out the program.]

[Dharma]

There is a really interesting newsletter that addresses with this how it often doesn't work for reasons of karma-it is called Secret Sounds at www.vaaksounds.com under newsletters.

[Rati]

Although his intentions are noble, I do not think his arguments are very convincing. Those programs are really more group therapy than religion or philosophy. If they help the people involved, then no harm done. They are not really meant to be a replacement for church or temple in the first place. I know I may seem to be playing Devil's advocate here, but sometimes preachers of our movement tend to get carried away with the mind/body dichotomy. Sure, twelve step programs my not be as effective as chanting harinam in treating alcoholism, but they do have a pretty good track record. Are we going to attract people to the movement by belittling those programs and similar ones? Maybe and maybe not. They might just get the impression that we are playing the 'holier than thou' card again, and then the opposite effect will be obtained.

[theist]

Rati,

 

I really don't understand your criticisms.Please, what is your point again?

[Gauracandra]

I think Srila Siddhaswarupananda has actually made a very important point that I certainly to. That is that the self-help movement really is the new religion of modern society. The problem with this is that it is a religion without God, and which places man at the center.

 

I mentioned in the "Purposes" thread that my own view is that much of Christianity has been swayed to this thinking. Now a days watch an evangelist on TV. Practically speaking they are saying that Christ was an ancient Tony Robbins. Everything is about how Christ wants you to be wealthy, Christ wants you to have a successful marriage etc.... So much of it is centered around the yuppie ideals of getting ahead materially in life.

 

I presented my view in that other thread that this was due to the fact that with an expanding lifestyle, the old message of the pain, suffering, but eventual upliftment of Christ to heaven was 'relatively' less appealing (due to material prosperity). So given our material prosperity, we need a new angle to hook them. Now it is religion to help you succeed in the workplace, in your relationships, to have more adventure in your life etc....

 

I work in the business world, and unfortunately the self-help movement has been very influential. They really are little games to keep you in "positive thinking land". I remember maybe 1 year ago, one of our executives went to one of these training seminars. He came back with the catch phrase of the day. Every day if you asked him anything he would inject that catch phrase - "I'm doing SUPERFANTASTIC". He kept it up for about 3 months, after which he stopped using it... it turns out he was laid off. His unit was performing badly, and he got on the wrong side of another executive. All of a sudden he wasn't doing "SUPERFANTASTIC", and his unit wasn't doing "SUPERFANTASTIC". Good guy, but he was faking it the whole time. The games they have you play are just silly, but everyone goes along with them because they think they have to. I do think however that this is dying down as people are beginning to realize just how childish these games are.

[Rati]

Originally posted by theist:

Rati,

 

I really don't understand your criticisms.Please, what is your point again?

It was not actually meant as a criticism. Even if he is right (and I have not reason to believe he is not), it is a question of what is accomplished in actuality by such an approach. There is such a thing as diplomacy. My point is that preachers might want to develop some to add a little panache to their lectures and dialogues.

[theist]

Originally posted by Rati:

It was not actually meant as a criticism. Even if he is right (and I have not reason to believe he is not), it is a question of what is accomplished in actuality by such an approach. There is such a thing as diplomacy. My point is that preachers might want to develop some to add a little panache to their lectures and dialogues.

 

Panache? Oh god.I need an icon that shows someone holding their nose but can't find one.

 

Thumbs down on this one Rati.

[Guest guest]

 

All religions are about positive thinking.

Consider the vedic religion,you meditate on the positivity of your being, the transcendental nature of the soul and the positive future that awaits for all who chant the maha-mantra.

This is positive thinking, " I will hear and chant the glories of Sri Krsna,and will experience liberation from material consciousness and become ecstatic and fullfilled".

If that isn't positive thinking ,I'll eat my sombrero.

 

 

[mahak]

Just because you think im ok, ur ok, it aint ok at all. It is misery. All of it. From birth to death, it is a curse.

 

And those thinking KC makes it ok, this is salvationism only, because when many become devotees, it only gets worse from accellerated karmic reaction.

 

The idea from this lecture is that realism involves careful analysis of precarious position. Dont strive for comfort, strive only for reality, which makes one a student. This world is ok if it is seen as the university of hard knocks. It never been to practice KC in order to have a happy earthly existance.

 

thanks for discussing these lectures, you have made me break out all the audio tapes from the early eighties for renewed exposure to reality which is as right today as it was when produced.

 

haribol, ys, mahak

 

panache, I dont buy it. If the theater is on fire, you dont say, "Excuse me sir, but may I have a little of your time to discuss a matter of great import.",, No you yell "FIYEH!!!"

 

You dont tell a fool who thinks he is god that he is intelligent and on the right track. No, you tell him he is a fool and going the exact opposite way to self-realization.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Consider the vedic religion,you meditate on the positivity of your being, the transcendental nature of the soul and the positive future that awaits for all who chant the maha-mantra.

Yet we must always accept that we are not in control. Our mere willing (i.e. positive thinking) will not bring about a change in our karmic reactions. The only way to become free from our reactions is to surrender to Krishna.

 

Further more, their aims are not actually "positive". They have confused material success with a positive situation, when in reality it is just creating a further chain reaction of greater suffering, when their "positive will" ultimately is smashed by the will of God in the form of death.

 

[bhaktashab]

I was trying to put myself in the position of an inquisitive viewer watching the show with no prior knowledge of Krsna consciousness. I think I would be very interested to hear more. So my respects go to Srila Siddhasvarupananda. One question I have though is why did he just quote from the bible? Is he trying to convert Christians? Or is he accepting the bible as [sanskrit word unknown] a primary scripture of reference? There are better quotes from the Bhagavata describing the glories of the holy name, why not quote those?

 

------------------

shab.

[Guest guest]

Goog thoughts do help. But the endeavour to avoid bad thoughts is very painful. It is definitely more effective to surrender to Krishna.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

...why did he just quote from the bible?

I couldn't answer for him, but I would guess it is probably because it is known to the audience.

 

[Gauracandra]

I think the reason he quotes from the Bible often is that it is a common reference point for his viewers. Most people have never heard of the Srimad Bhagavatam etc.... So if he can make a point using a common basis then it is more meaningful.

 

He has a fairly interesting approach that I like quite a lot. He stays completely on message. His message is always "Develop a loving relationship with the Supreme Person." And his goal is to clearly articulate that same message. So he takes topical items, things in the news etc.... and then he turns the discussion towards his main theme. In doing so he rarely quotes Sanskrit. What is the point for instance of saying jiva if you can say soul? The purpose is to communicate ideas, and most of his audience will be unfamiliar with these terms. When he does quote scripture is will usually be the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, or Sri Isopanishad.

[mahak]

Ill take a stab at "why bible". I do not represent Sriman Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa, nor am I affiliated with any organization bearing his name, yet I have come to very much appreciate his preaching method over the years.

 

There is no flaw in scripture, be it occidental or oriental. Scripture, though, is neutral at most, thus the need for hearing scripture from a realized person. The bible, when citewd by a devotee of Krsna, is potent spiritual truth. The vedas, cited by a rascal, is garbage. So it has never been a question of which scripture a devotee wants to cite in his preaching effort, it is the actual message that is worthy of aural reception.

 

Why the bible? Why bob dylan, why mick jagger? these two beings' poetry was cited by Srila Prabhupada in his preaching, and those who heard understood the actual import of what was being said.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa