why did god create man?

[bharath]

i know that this would seem a sily question.but i ahve always wanted an answer for this.

 

i think i should rephrase it.

what was god's purpose/necesity for creation

of this world,of man,of the other creatures.why does he need to do all this?

 

[This message has been edited by bharath (edited 06-06-2002).]

[Pita das]

God Krishna glanced at material engery Goddess Durga and threw her agents Brahma man was created there are 400,000 varities of humans within the universe

[Avinash]

Why ask only about man? God has created many other species? So, why not ask about them also? If we ask, then we are asking why God created living beings.

 

Anyway, my answer to your question: -

 

God created man so that man could wonder why God created him.

[bharath]

Originally posted by Avinash:

Why ask only about man? God has created many other species? So, why not ask about them also? If we ask, then we are asking why God created living beings.

 

Anyway, my answer to your question: -

 

God created man so that man could wonder why God created him.

nice answer avinash,did really give me a smile,but i seriously want an answer for it.dont u think that to understand god,nature,etc,that u need to know why we were created?

 

 

[Sharma-SN]

I think God created man and other living and non-living things for the same reason that man created tools, instruments, and thinking machines like computers etc. Tools, machines etc., ease and aid man's creations and similarly man and other things in this world aid God's objectives. Just like a spanner can not imagine the objective of its creation man also can not understand the purpose of his creation. He is too small to comprend God's plans.

 

------------------

sharmasn

[Pita das]

God being the first being before anything exsited was compelete and happy with and in Himself being the sum bonum Srila Prabhupada has explained to us He is Bhagavan processing all quailties in full all beautiful full of all knowegde all famous full of all strength and fully renounced of everything all blissful and ever enceasing in all of these quailities.

This is the criteria of the Supreme Absolute Truth know by us as Sri Krishna Bhagavan.

At one point in the Lords mood and blissful enjoyment He desires relationship

out of His own sweet will and personifies He internal emotions His pleasure potenty in Srimate Radharani and then there are two

Out of His sweet will He latter again expands into a compelte dupicate of Himself and this is Lord Balarama found this point all His expansions appear of 3 varities Vishnu tatvas Shiva tatva and jiva tatva.

At the same time the oringal Superme Abouslute truth never becomes less as all of these expansion imanate from Him.

 

The 3 varitey Jiva tatava are different from the others .

This Tatva is of a marinal quailty being haveing a nature of which in rare cases is defective due to the freedom which the realtionship they were created for demains

and some jivas become at once indepentant of thier source like a screw which has fallen from a machine in a factory.

 

because the form of jiva decides to indepentantly search for its enjoyment away from its source Krishna then glanecs at His material engery known as Durga and She goes about makeing a place in which this jiva may live in the illison of indepenance.

so that engery which the jiva decides to enjoy and controll milking out enjoyment in a separate way becomes its jail .

The Good new is that only afew screws fall to the floor of the factory most are eternally willing to enjoy with Thier Source Shri Shri Radha Krishna and enjoy with them.

The bad new is we are the fallen screws

[Pita das]

this tread tho should be placed in the spiritual discussions portion

[Gauracandra]

I once read an analysis of this question "Why did God create anything?" such as man etc.... It was by a very famous Catholic theologian, but I'm blanking out on his name at the moment. Anyways, I don't recall the details. But it was very interesting in that he said something to the effect that God would seek to create something as closely perfect as himself. And that creation would seek to create something as closely perfect as it etc.... on down the line. Thus everything was some form of an expansion of an expansion of God. Not that it was God, but that the creative nature of God would seek to create something perfect. And so we would get various gradations of creations.

 

I'm not doing it justice, but it was very interesting.

[fayarus]

As im a Muslim, the answer for your question as mentioned in the Holy Quran is "God has created us only to worship him". Much as we long for a perfect world, we are compelled to live in an imperfect one. Our happiness is always short-lived and our every succes is, in some way, eventually a failure. The aspirations that we cherish in the early days of our lives are shattered as we begin to age. Just as we begin to take root on earth, disaster, old age and death overtake us. How enchanting the flowers are, but they blossom only to wither. Miraculous though man's existence is, no miracle can save him from death. Everything in this world shall perish. This world must be inconclusive. Another world must follow to compensate for the inadequacies fo the present one. Paradise is that eternal world of God in which his attributes will appear in all their perfection.

 

[This message has been edited by fayarus (edited 06-09-2002).]

[Sharma-SN]

Originally posted by bharath:

 

i think i should rephrase it.

what was god's purpose/necesity for creation

of this world,of man,of the other creatures.why does he need to do all this?

 

[This message has been edited by bharath (edited 06-06-2002).]

There is a controversy abt "Creation itself"

Nothing is created -- just like ice is not created but it is a different state of water and similarly vapour is another state of water itself.--- Thus some believe that God in different states appear as this world and its inhabitants.

 

[bhaktajoy]

The beginning of consciousness

 

Science might categorize the secret teachings as metaphysical, meaning "beyond the known laws and observations of physics." Religion might refer to them as mystical, meaning that they belong to a collection of thought considered too mysterious to consider or of dubious origin.

 

It’s interesting to note that the great religions have sects that know of and ascribe to some or all of the secret teachings. In Islam it would be the Sufis; in Judaism, the Kabbalists; in early Christianity, the Gnostics and later, from the Middle Ages through the Reformation to even modern times, the many Christian mystics.

 

Science, too, has had its adherents to concepts held by the secret teachings. Many quantum physicists have written about theories of life beyond the physically observable. Medicine has found that patients, who have been declared dead and later revived, have near-death experiences that confirm many of the concepts found in the secret teachings.

 

According to the secret teachings, the universe was not first created in matter, but existed prior to material creation in spirit. Imagine a consciousness similar to our own, except that this first consciousness was boundless, a Universal Consciousness. This is God. At some point, the Universal Consciousness desired to express itself. It began to conceive, to imagine, and express Its inner prompting. And so the creation began – light, sound ... eventually stars, galaxies, trees, and rivers. This point in creation is still prior to the physical creation of the universe that science records. This is a realm of thought; no physical forms exist, only thoughts in the consciousness of the Universe. The physical universe had not yet been created.

 

According to the secret teachings, there came a point in this creation where the Creator’s Consciousness desired to bring forth companions, creatures like unto Itself that would share in this expression of life. In order for the creatures to be more than creations, they had to possess individual consciousness and freedom, so that they could choose to be companions. Otherwise, they would only have been servants of the Original Consciousness. So within the One Universal Consciousness many individual points of consciousness were awakened and given freedom.

 

It’s important for us to realize that at this point in our existence we did not have physical bodies. All of what has just been described occurred within the Mind of God. Consequently, its "form" resembled that of thought rather than physical objects. In the very beginning we were individual points of consciousness within the one great Universal Consciousness.

 

At first we were quiet, our wills content to observe the wonders of the spiritual creation as they flowed from the Mind of God. In these early periods we were so much a part of the Creator’s Consciousness that we were one with It, virtually indistinguishable from It. However, it wasn’t long before some of us began to use our wills and express ourselves. At first, we simply imitated the Creator, but eventually we gained experience, and with experience came knowledge and confidence. Then, we truly began to create on our own, adding new dimensions to the spiritual creation, much like a second voice adds to a song by singing harmony with the main melody.

 

This was exactly why we had been created – to share in and contribute to the great expression of Life and to be Its companions. To fulfill this purpose we were created in the image of the Creator: consciousness with freedom, capable of conceiving, perceiving, and remembering; capable of communicating directly with the Creator and the other companions.

 

Consciousness and free will were the greatest qualities given any creation, but they came with equally great responsibility for their use or misuse. Of course, the all-knowing Universal One knew the potential dangers in giving beings complete freedom to do as they desired. However, the potential joy of sharing life with true companions, not servants, was deemed worth the risk. Therefore, each of these new free-willed beings would simply have to learn to take charge of themselves and to subdue harmful desires in order to live in harmony with the other companions and the Creator. To do otherwise would only bring chaos, suffering, and separation.

 

Unfortunately, chaos came. As we continued to use our godly powers, we became more fascinated with them. We began to focus more and more on our own creations and became less concerned with and attentive to their harmony with the Creator, with the Whole. The more we thought of just ourselves and our own desires with less regard for the Whole, the more self-centered we became, eventually perceiving ourselves as separate from the Whole.

 

Of course, this sense of separation was all in our minds, so to speak, because there really was no way we could exist outside of the Whole because everything was of spirit. It was more a result of our sustained focus of attention on ourselves and our self-interests that resulted in a heightened sense of a distinct and separate self.

 

This was the beginning of trouble. It led to a very long fall for us. A fall that eventually left us feeling alone and separated from the rest of life, even to the point that we, who were actually companions and co-creators with the Universal Creator, today come to think of ourselves as little more than dustlike creatures, descendants of apes and inhabitants of a planet on the outskirts of a typical galaxy in the endless and diverse universe.

 

This chaos occurred in spirit when no physical universe existed. To know ourselves and yet be one with the Whole was the ideal condition, but the centering of awareness on self alone resulted in a sense of separation from the Whole. The more we exercised our individual consciousness and free will for self-interest, self-gratification, self-glorification, and self-consciousness, the more we heightened our sense of self apart from the Whole.

 

The resulting loss of contact with the Source of our life and the purpose for our existence was the beginning of darkness and evil, which is ignorance. Without a clear sense of our relationship to the rest of life, many of us began to use free will in ways that were never meant to be. Others simply let themselves be carried along with the current of life, abdicating their free will to the will of others. In both cases, these were things that would make it very difficult for us to be companions to the Creator.

 

However, the Creator foresaw this potential and, prior to creating companions, It created a Universal Law: Whatever one did with its free will, it must experience. The law was not intended as punishment or retribution for offenses, but as a tool for education and enlightenment. Thus, as we used our freedom, we experienced the effects. In this we came to understand and learn.

 

Interestingly, science and religion recognize this law. In science it is often stated, "For every action there is a equal and opposing reaction." Its religious counterpart is, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"; "As you sow, so shall you reap"; and "As you do unto others, it will be done unto you." Even common knowledge expresses this principle in saying, "What goes around, comes around."

 

This is the law of karma, of cause and effect. It is the great teacher of the companions-to-be and it is an integral part of the secret teachings. Once this law was established, the Creator conceived and freed countless independent points of consciousness within Its own infinite consciousness and the companions came into being, each conscious and free. What a trembling wonder it must have been in those first moments!

 

Again, it’s important to realize that the companions were not physical bodies. They were like "ideas" in the mind of the Creator that were given freedom to be independently conscious. As they used their freedom, they developed into unique points of thought, feeling, desire, expression, and memory. Each was slightly different from the other by virtue of its different vantage point within the Universal Consciousness. Each companion had a spirit, mind, and a soul. Spirit is the essence of life. Remember the condition of the Creator before the creation; alive yet still. This is Spirit. It is the living stillness in the midst of activity. So often we identify life with motion, but the essence of life was there before the motion. Spirit is the essence of life.

 

Life in motion, or the power to move and shape ideas and even physical forms out of spirit, is mind. Mind is the sculptor, the builder who conceives, imagines, and shapes ideas out of the essence of life. Spirit is life; Mind is the power to use it.

 

Each of the companions had spirit and mind. As they used their life forces, they developed experiences, memories, desires, fears, etc. This caused them to become unique from one another – each having its own collection of experiences and aspirations; each its own story. This individual aspect of the companion is its soul. Soul is the sum total of all that the companion had done with its free-will consciousness. It’s the companion’s story, its complex of memories. All of the companions have spirit and mind, but each developed a unique soul, because each built a different collection of memories and experiences, resulting in different desires, hopes, and attitudes about life. Thus, spirit is the life force, mind is the power to use it, and soul is the being that develops. All are one in consciousness.

 

 

The division of consciousness

 

The creation then progressed from essence to thought, thought into thought-form, and from thought-form into particle-form or atomic-form; in other words, matter. There are many dimensions to life. One of these dimensions is the third dimension – physical form, as we know it today.

 

The companions, filled with their newfound consciousness and freedom, went out into the vast universe to experience life and to learn about themselves, the Creator, and their relationship to it. In their travels through the cosmos, some of the companions entered the three-dimensional influences of the planet Earth where they entered into physical form for the first time. Here they became so encapsulated in the physical that they began to identify themselves more with their form than with their consciousness. They began to think of themselves as physical entities rather than free, living consciousness. Incredibly, we began to think we were only terrestrial beings and our celestial origins began to be forgotten. Form was so substantial, so captivating that it was difficult to hold on to the more delicate reality of spirit-thoughts, pure point of consciousness in a Universal Consciousness.

 

To have an individual body was also the ultimate in self-identity, self-expression. It had the power of separating one from the Whole and the formless spirit-thoughts of higher dimensions.

 

Strong identification with the physical made the companions subject to the laws of Nature, and, of course, a part of Nature’s cycle was death. The body would come to life according to the laws of Nature, live for a time, and then die. In their original state, the companions were continually alive, but those that began to strongly identify with their physical bodies were now affected by death. Since they thought they were their bodies, they considered themselves dead when their bodies died.

 

This was a serious confusion, and when the companions who had not become involved in the material universe saw what had happened to the others, they decided to help those in the flesh regain their former state. However, it was not going to be easy.

 

In addition to the influences of the physical dimension, the souls were building reaction patterns (karmic patterns) with their willful activities in the physical universe. According to the universal law, these actions had to be met – properly met in the physical universe where they had been initiated. The more one acted in the physical dimension, the more one built debts that had to be met in the physical. Death changed nothing except those with karmic debts yet to pay had to pay them by incarnating into another physical body. The result of this was reincarnation.

 

Another effect of entering the physical dimension was the division of consciousness. According to the secret teachings, as an individual entered deeper into the physical, its consciousness separated into three divisions of awareness. Two of these divisions we acknowledge today: the conscious and subconscious. The first entails the physical realm where the human body required a three-dimensional consciousness to function. It has become the part of our consciousness we are most familiar with, what we have come to call the conscious mind. Many of us would consider it to actually be the "I" or "me" of ourselves. It is within this part of consciousness that we experience physical life, and our personalities are developed.

 

The second part of consciousness is shadowlike while one is incarnate in the physical dimension. It lives life as a shadow, always there, listening, watching, remembering, and only occasionally making its profound and sometimes frightening presence known. We have come to call this part of our consciousness the subconscious mind. From out of this area come dreams, intuitions, unseen motivations, and deepest memories.

 

According to many teachings, the subconscious is the realm of the soul that uses the conscious mind as a mechanism for manifesting in the physical plane through the five senses. Often the thoughts and interests of the conscious mind, combined with the desires of the body, become so strong and dominant that only its activities seem important and real; the subconscious seems illusionary and unrelated to outer life. But in truth, the real life is occurring in the subconscious.

 

The third area of the now divided consciousness is the most universal. It is the part we can perceive and commune with the Universal Consciousness. We have different names for it: the Collective Mind, the Universal Mind, the Collective Unconsciousness, and the Superconsciousness.

 

The more one’s attention moves into the conscious mind, the more narrow and limited the focus and awareness becomes. The more one moves toward the superconsciousness, the more one becomes aware of the Whole, the Universal Forces, the Creator.

 

It may be more difficult to perceive the infinite when one is grossly involved in the finite, but the Universal Consciousness and the potential for attuning oneself to It remains. Curiously, the access is through the inner consciousness of the incarnate individual and not outside of it, making it a very mysterious passage for a physical being.

 

In time, however, the companions trapped in the physical dimension could again become aware of the difference between terrestrial and celestial life. They could again come to know their original state and purpose, and regain their celestial birthright of companionship with the Creator. In time they could again come to realize that the conditions in their present physical life were the result of their free-will actions and choices before the present life.

 

If the companions trapped in the physical dimension could genuinely begin to believe that the physical cannot possibly be all there is to life, they could begin the long journey back from form to spirit, a very difficult journey. In many ways we, as human beings, are no longer spirit. Flesh has become very much a part of us, not just physically but mentally as well. Even when we are out of the body (through death, deep sleep, or some altered state such as meditation), bodily manifestation is still very much a part of us. Otherwise, there would certainly be no reincarnation. We would simply leave the physical dimension and never return.

 

The great paradox of humankind is that we are now both spirit and flesh. That’s like saying we are a combination of oil and water, two substances which do not combine. The mystical analogy would more properly be fire and water; these, too, don’t combine. How can anything be made up of two substances that are impossible to combine? Yet, such is the nature of humanity. We are constantly forced to reconcile the seemingly unreconcilable: mercy with justice, cooperation with independence, unity with diversity, tradition with change, feeling with thought, love with truth, and on and on.

 

The consequences of the division

 

In order to fully appreciate the secret teachings, we need to understand how the Universal law of cause and effect works. It’s easy to say that the experiences in one’s life are the result of past activities, but the forces of this law are greater than we may first imagine.

 

Every action, every thought, every idle word sets up reactions, according to the Universal law. When one thinks a thought, that thought makes an impression on the Universal Consciousness. Nothing is lost or done in secret. Everything is done within the Universal Consciousness, and the Whole is affected by it (as well as all others within the Whole).

 

This isn’t easy for us to believe, living in our own little worlds. Secret, private, alone, and separate are active words in our vocabulary. This is due to our current separation in consciousness from the Whole. In the higher realms of consciousness, there is no space. Things and people are not separate, but part of a Whole. All is actually One. All is within the Whole. By increasing the focus on self, we have created the illusion of a self separated from the rest of life, but it just isn’t so. Our individual actions and thoughts make an impact on the Mind of the Universal One (the Whole).

 

Thoughts are things. Thoughts are real.

 

Reactions to past thoughts and actions become our fate, destiny, and karma. An individual’s fate is simply the rebounding effects of previous choices remembered by its soul. The reason the effects of these previous choices often seem unfair to the conscious mind is because the personality doesn’t see beyond its own life for sources of current conditions.

 

As companions of God, we are free to live and choose and grow almost as we desire, but not without being subject to the Universal, Spiritual law. Through meeting our thoughts, actions, and words we learn to discern wisdom from folly, lasting strength from weakness, and true life from illusion. In turn we become more able to fulfill our ultimate purpose for existing: to be a companion to the Universal Creator. The law is actually a magnificent tool for perfect learning. It is completely impersonal – everyone experiences it equally and for the purpose of enlightenment.

 

The law of karma is not some fierce god in the sky keeping track of everything so that it can zap people when they least expect it. Most karmic reactions in fact come from the individual’s own deep memory of what it has done.

 

Karma has been described as memory. Karma is memory coming to consciousness again. What has occurred in the past is recalled and has an effect on the present. Now, the recollection may not surface to the conscious level; the personality may have no awareness of the memory, in fact. Yet, it exists at the deeper, soul level. Nevertheless, the soul sees through the same eyes as the personality and is reminded of its past use of free will and consciousness. Naturally, some of these memories will be compatible with the Universal and some will not. Memory is an important concept in understanding how the law of karma works.

 

As a soul draws closer to the Universal Mind, it becomes aware that some of its memories are not compatible with the Creator, and since its ultimate purpose for being is companionship with the Creator, it seeks out opportunities to resolve these incompatible memories.

 

Suppose a soul criticizes another soul among its peers and behind its back. As it becomes more aware of its true nature, it will recall this wrong and, because of its incompatibility with the Creator, will seek to correct it. Now, the resolution could take many forms. The soul might seek out an opportunity to work closely with the injured soul as a supporter, assistant, publicist, agent, or the like. Or perhaps it would seek to re-create the original scene – putting itself in a position to criticize the other soul again in front of the same peers. The test would be to see if the soul would choose not to criticize this time, even if it meant a certain loss of position for itself. Throughout all this the soul grows wiser and more compatible with the Creator.

 

If, however, a soul has gotten so far away from its true nature that it has no conscience, then the law of karma can become a formidable obstacle to any further free-will action. Such a soul becomes surrounded by its karma; everywhere it turns, it meets the terrible effects of its previous action and thoughts. Yet, even a soul who has gotten in this pathetic situation can return to perfection because there is no total condemnation from the Creator or the law. If the soul turns away from its self-centeredness and begins acting, reacting, thinking, and speaking like a companion to the Universe, then the law is just as perfect as it is with error; and the reactions begin to build and establish a new destiny for that soul.

 

Karma is memory. As one recalls or relives situations, one meets self again, and a new decision point or crossroads is presented to the soul. In life, "good" would be equated with compatible, harmonious actions and thoughts which consider the needs and desires of others along with self’s needs and desires. "Evil" would be equated with actions and thoughts that are motivated by a self-orientation that pays little or no attention to the needs and desires of others and the Whole. Metaphysically speaking, good results in oneness, and evil results in a sense of separation. Decisions in one’s life could be approached by evaluating which choices promote greater oneness and which promote separation.

 

One must meet every bit of one’s karma. However, there is a way that it can be modified, softened, even ameliorated. If a soul, knowing another soul has wronged it, forgives that soul and holds no lingering resentment – perhaps has even forgotten the wrong in the depths of its forgiveness and understanding – then it begins to take hold of the power of forgiveness. The more it forgives, the more it perceives and understands forgiveness. Then, when it approaches the Universal Consciousness and realizes it possesses memories that are incompatible with It, forgiveness is much more viable, removing the barrier of separation. The law is so precise (what one gives one receives; no exceptions) that if one begins having mercy on and forgiveness of others, one begins to receive mercy and forgiveness upon oneself. Unless, of course, one refuses to forgive oneself.

 

All has to be met. And yet, no soul is given more than it can bear to carry – this is the paradoxical blessing hidden in the limitations of time and space. A soul is given the time it needs to turn away from its selfish ways and, like the prodigal son, return home to a feast of joy and welcome from our Creator. Reincarnation is not a way to avoid judgment and responsibility; it is a way to allow the soul enough time to correct its mistakes and develop itself.

 

 

 

[Gauracandra]

I really liked your writing Fayarus. I am noticing that myself, that as I get older, I am noticing the passing of time more and more. It is like time goes by much faster now than in the past.

 

I believe that the qualities man has, God has imparted those qualities. Some people will say that man is projecting his views onto God. But it can just as easily be argued the reverse. That is we can ask “Why do couples have children?” If you can answer that, I think you can partially understand why God created man. Perhaps. That is God has a creative aspect, and he has put within man those same creative “instincts”. It is part of our makeup. Why do people have kids? Perhaps to raise, to see them uplifted, to grow, and come fully into their own. Perhaps God wants the same for us, that we might grow, and learn, and live up to our full potential in life.

[Guest guest]

He is yet to create. He is only dreaming about it. It is a pastime.

[gHari]

We are the fallen screws? Damn!

 

All the world is a stage and every man plays his part. Actually it's an off-Broadway stage where we get our act together before hitting the big time stage in the Kingdom of God.

 

Although it could be - to serve woman.

[Sharma-SN]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

 

Why do people have kids? Perhaps to raise, to see them uplifted, to grow, and come fully into their own. Perhaps God wants the same for us, that we might grow, and learn, and live up to our full potential in life.

Respected Gaurachandra,

Yes you may be right only if I dress up my inner feelings and play good for the society. Stripped of any role I feel men beget children as a price for their indulgence. In the absence of the fear of society, and the moral tradition built over years, one wouldn't take the burden of bringing up the children. The race for less children leading to no children is a welcome sign for many.

 

[Rati]

Hey Pita das Ji! Hari Bol! Did not know you were here. Send me your latest email address to mtcorp@attbi.com. I do not want to reveal my real name here (I enjoy posting anonymously) - but did want to get caught up, as we have not exchanged emails for over a year now (I think maybe even two years).

 

 

[Pita das]

the pure vashnava has children to help bring the world to the point of total God Concsiousness ,they therefore preform the proper samscaras that only very highly elevated saintly jivas take birth within thier mits.

Many great acaryas are waiting in que to assit in furthering Lord Chaitanyas movement

they do not fall to earth like the rain.

 

They take birth in highly evouled sainty families

 

specuatation on why the Lord does this or that action is fruitless therefore the words prehaps or maybe are never used in scriptural discriptions.

He reveals why personally or threw His intament servants why He preforms actions

[xxvvii]

This topic is nonsense. Why did God need to create man?