Looking for Info on Hindu Goddess

[Tirisilex]

I'm doing in depth research on the Goddess Rati. I'm finding it very difficult to find adaquete information on her.. I would also like to find as many pictures of her as possible.. Is the book "The Love Teaching of Rati" available in english? if so where I could obtain it? I tried Amazon and could not find it there.. I'm kind of new to hinduism. Being an American Buddhist I know practicaly nothing of the Hindu Gods and Goddesses..

Ive been searching the net non stop for 2 days and have found very little on Rati.. Any info on Kama is Helpful as well (Being that he is her husband).. But I'm focusing my research on Rati..

 

Thank you for any help anyone can give me..

 

Tirisilex

 

[Guest guest]

Rati is the most beautiful of the devatas, roughly translated as goddess. I have attached 108 pictures of Rati below :

 

 

Is she not beautiful ? Do you have problem seeing her ? Oh! that is because she does not have a body like ours. Her body is made of subtler elements unlike ours. She is a celestial angel. There are apsaras who can charm any man, even one who is not interested. But they cannot be seen with our eyes. If some one gives you a picture of Rati, dont believe that. However, one can see Rati and innumerable other celestial beings if one performs yoga. Yoga in true form is more than just sitting postures. It is an art of controlling the mind and developing love for God. As per Hindu theology, the beauty of Rati and practically all forms of beauty come from the Supreme beauty of Sri Sri Radha Krishna. Rati is attracted to her husband Madana/Kama (cupid) and is his chaste wife. But Madana is attracted to the primeval lord Sri Krishna. And this Krishna is the best not only in beauty but also wealth, power, knowledge, renunciation etc. So Krishna is also called Madana Mohana, the enchanter of Madana. The Supreme Lord Sri Krishna is attracted to His eternal consort Srimati Radharani. She is therefore called Madana Mohana Mohini (the enchanter of the enchanter of cupid). If sun is bright, then one can only begin to imagine the brightness of thousand suns. If Rati is beautiful then one can not even begin to imagine the combined beauty of Sri Sri Radha Krishna. Apart from beauty, the Lord is also the reservoir of all attractive qualities, which is why He is called Krishna.

 

He is attained through a very special yoga process called bhakti yoga. You can start practicing this process by chanting

 

"Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare"

 

for 108 times a day.

 

[This message has been edited by ram (edited 06-12-2002).]

[Tirisilex]

Thank you Ram for yor reply.. It's definately information I don't have..

 

They dont have Pictures of Rati? I can find Pictures of other Hindu Gods and Goddesses how is she different in that aspect exactly? Please excuse my ignorance..

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by Tirisilex:

Thank you Ram for yor reply.. It's definately information I don't have..

 

They dont have Pictures of Rati? I can find Pictures of other Hindu Gods and Goddesses how is she different in that aspect exactly? Please excuse my ignorance..

Most Hindu scriptures are in a language called Sanskrit. Often times, it is difficult to translate phrases from Sanskrit to English. So, there has been a general tendency to lump words together and translate them all as God. But, what is the Sanskrit word for God? It is Bhagavan, meaning the One who has 6 opulences. There are several species, all jivas, as per the Hindu scriptures. They have a hierarchial relationship. We humans are somewhere in between.

 

Devas, also known as demi-Gods, are a species higher than the humans. Rati and Madana are devas. They are not Gods. They are not eternal.

 

As per Hindu scriptures, there is only one God. He is perceived by the seers in many a form. Rk veda says, ekam sad viprah bahuddha vadati - "the truth is One, but the sages realize it many ways". Some realize it as Krishna, some as Shiva and some as Durga. The acarya, who has realized Supreme in a particular form, renders that form in a depiction. That is why you find many pictures of the God.

 

You don't find that many pictures of the devas like Indra, Rati etc., as the Hindus don't consider them as Supreme. They are just a species, though higher than us.

 

But, I am skeptical about another member's statement that they cannot be depicted in any form. Why not? If Krishna can be, then why not Rati? I think the reason she is not depicted so widely is because she is not that important for the Hindus - she has her role to play in the puranas and it ends there.

 

Yet, I do have a feeling that there must be depictions in old temple engravings. My hunch is based on a more than 2000 year old Tamil poetry [Tamil is another old classical language of India like Sanskrit] called Paripaadal. In that poem, the husband is narrating the engravings in a temple to his wife. And one of the engravings is Rati and Madana. I need to do more research to identify that temple, though I feel it must be in Tirupparan kundram, near Madurai, Tamilnadu, India. I am also very positive that you will find depictions of Rati in many temple engravings.

 

Kama or sex is the single largest subject of engravings in the temples in India. So, you must find Rati for certain.

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Tirisilex:

Thank you Ram for yor reply.. It's definately information I don't have..

 

They dont have Pictures of Rati? I can find Pictures of other Hindu Gods and Goddesses how is she different in that aspect exactly? Please excuse my ignorance..

There are innumerable Universes which emanate from the Supreme Lord Narayana - each time He breaths out. These Universes are so infinite, that our mind cannot easily grasp. But the sAstrAs give an abstract view of this Universe so that we can understand. It describes that there are 14 planetary systems. In each of these planetary systems, there are unnumerable planets. And the concept of space and time are different within each. Also there is life in these planets which are different from what we know Here. Beyond all these material manifestations is Narayana or Krishna. He is completely transcendental. If we cannot understand the Universe (s), and even other planetary systems it should be obvious that we cannot understand Him, who has infinite expansions. But he can be understood through the sAstrAs. The Vedas are eternal just like the Lord. And they are the source of bliss. The sAstrAs also provide means for us to conceive Him with our limited senses. The Lord appears in the form of His archa vigraha or deity form so that we can understand Him. These are not arbitrary forms but forms described in the sAstrAs and revealed by the seers. So they are considered as accurate representation of the real. They also help us concentrate our mind on the Supreme. Sometimes people make pictures out of it, which is also fine.

 

Similarly sAstrAs also give represenation of the navagrahAs, the personal representations of the planets. They look different from what we see with naked eyes. They also give representation of the other devatas like Rati. But this needs a lot of research. As Karthik suggested one needs to visit the temples and do the research. But my suggestion would be focus your research on Krishna. That will yield a long-term result.

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Kama or sex is the single largest subject of engravings in the temples in India.

I would disagree. I have been to thousands of ancient temples, and only a handful had such carvings. The majority of carvings on the pillars, walls, etc., are general devatas or decorative carvings (yalli, etc.).

 

[Tirisilex]

This is a reply to Ram:

 

Are you a Guru? Because you sure sound like you are. I completely respect you.. And I give you the same respects as I do my Lama.. I understand your suggestion to look into Krishna is out of lovingkindness.. But yet I am still a Buddhist and I would enjoy talking with you about Krishna.. I feel I should make my Research a little more clear to you.. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Story about the Buddha's Enlightenment under the Bodhi Tree.. There is a part to that story where Mara (Lord of Death and Temptation (I prefer to say 'distraction')) Sends his Daughters to tempt the Buddha. One of these daughters is named Rati or also she is called Raga (Daughter of Desire).. I have found that there are many variations of the story of the Buddha's enlightment. To help me get a better understanding of this story I am now looking into Hinduism and comparing the 2 philosophies.. I'm sure you are aware that the Buddha learned from Brahmans and I'm finding alot of what the Buddha teaches to be heavily influenced from Hindu philosophy.. More so than I had known. The teachings of compassion are just as incredible as the the teachings of compassion I have learned from My Lama.. I forgot to mention I'm a student of Tibetan Buddhism. My apologies.. What I have learned about Rati and how she relates to Hinduism so far has better shaped my views of what happened under the Bodhi Tree.. Although my knowledge is small still about Rati and where she stands.. Thanks to you and Karthik I have learned Much on where she stands.. I'm learning alot and Ive been really cramming on my studies.. I know knowledge isnt much without practice however Ignorance can be a hinderance to practice.. What I have learned has brought a greater appreciation for your beliefs and a better peace within myself.. My research on Rati has shown me that she may be much more innocent than the stories I have read may lead one to believe and that all in all the desire that the Buddha looked away from was not so much Rati trying to seduce him but the desire within himself.

As you had said she is a Chaste wife to Kama. However I still do not know much about her as an Individual and I have found that there are Love stories between Kama and Rati however I am unable to locate them.. I do have access to some books but I do not know where to look.

I have the Upanishads (though its a paperback and I would love to get one like the following book) Srimad Bhagavatam First Canto-Part One by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. One of the most beautiful layouts of a book Ive seen. I also have the Bhagavad Gita as well a Book on Indian Philosophy which is full of scriptures. I have been reading the Mahabharata in the Indian Philosophy book and it's quite beautiful.

I hope this helps you understand where I stand.

 

[Tirisilex]

The whole picture thing isnt really all that important to me.. I just wanted to see how she is depicted in pictures..

[Sarasvati]

Krishna book, by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada: chapter 55/ Pradyumna Born to Krishna and Rukmini. Rati is the consort of Pradyumna (Kamadev).

[Tirisilex]

Karthik:

 

Thank you for your reply.. I did find one picture of a wall sculpture that has Kama and Rati together.. However It was not a very good jpeg and I couldnt see much detail..

Last night I was reading a printout I had on another version of the Buddha's enlightnement story. As I had said in my post to Ram I have been finding many different versions of the story some have greater descriptions of the event than others. I had read 3 but the one I read I last night was different. One story has Mara sending 3 daughters, another 8.. I know that these are representative of samsaric qualities but I'm trying to understand the sources of the names and such. The story I read last night was much more descriptive than the ones I've previously had the pleasure of knowing.. This one had references about Mara. I found that in Buddhist philosophy Mara is Kama this I did not know.. This explains my confusion of why Rati's father wasnt the same in my understanding in Hindu Philosophy (Which is very limited) . I'm seeing the differences yet still not completely understanding the differences. My Lama focuses more on other things than the Buddha's story and I understand his reasons. I'm trying to be the good student and explore the stories and the influences with the extra time on my hands.

 

I learned more about Kama which has been a help in understanding the only story I really Know that includes him. When Ram said he was cupid I thought he was just comparing him with a greek mythological god.. I didnt realise how similar the 2 are.. Kama has arrows that inspires or induces desires and I guess other feelings as well.

 

Thank you for explaining Devas more fully I didnt know that they were considered impermenent in Hindu philosophy as well. Meaning that in Buddhist philosophy all things are impermenent.

 

[Sarasvati]

As I mentioned, the story of Rati's and Pradyumna's meeting again is told in the Krishna book - available in any Hare Krishna temple. Rati has taken birth as a woman on earth, and is working in a kitchen of a demon. A fish has swallowed Pradyumna (Kamadev appearing as the baby-son of Krishna and Rukmini). The fish finds its way to the demon's kitchen, and as the cook opens it, the baby comes out. Rati agrees to take care of him. Very quickly, he grows into a man, and is surprised when Rati shows her amorous love toward him. she explains that she is not really his mother but wife. He had to take birth on Earth, and she wanted to follow him. For deeper meaning of the story, and for more spiritual explanation, I would recommend the book itself.

 

As for Rati disturbing Buddha - could she be a symbolic representation of love called rati. Someone more well-versed in Sanskrit can tell exactly what kind of love the word rati refers to - affection, deep attachment, infatuation, of what.

 

I have The Puranic Encyclopedia. When I get a little more time, I'll check out more details/stories for you.

[Tirisilex]

Sarasvati:

 

Great!! Thank you.. This helps alot.. Perhaps you can clarify something else for me. How exactly does the Mahabharata relate to the Puranas? I read on this site that is generaly known as Histories. However the Mahabharata Ive been reading in the Indian Philosophy book I have doesnt reaf like a History.. It seems more to be like guidelines. I read on a website that the Mahabharata speaks of the Birth of Kama being the son of Dharma. Is the book I'm reading not really excerpts from the Mahabharata or is the website claiming the story in the wrong place?

 

[karthik_v]

Tirisilex:

 

Thanks for that introduction about yourself. It is very heartening to have a practising Buddhist on this forum. I hope we can exchange more knowledge. The beauty of this forum [run by J N Das] is that people from different schools of philosophies can come together and exchange knowledge, without getting sectarian. Welcome aboard.

 

I too recall reading different versions of Buddha's experience with Mara's daughters. The movie Little Buddha too portrays that incident. In that movie as well, Buddha doesn't even look at them or gets bothered. Their attempts to distract him fail. Now, I don't remember as to how many daughters were portrayed in that movie. Perhaps 3, but I would take the movie versions not so seriously. Perhaps your guru Lama can provide information on this - and you can share with us.

 

One more thing. The same names are used by different people in the Hindu puranas. So, may be the Rati in that Buddha incident isn't the same as Madana's wife. Of course, I am speculating - J N Das can clarify.

 

Mahabharat is considered an itihasa. It is considered by the Hindus as history. True, it also comes with many moral lessons - especially the entire Bhagavad Gita which is part of Mahabharat, is Krishna's lesson to humanity. Mahabharat is very long. It has 1,00,000 verses and it has spiritual messages, politics, war, love everything packed into it in such a manner that even a lay audience can get the message easily. Interestingly Mahabharat and Ramayana were transmitted through performing arts for millennia.

 

Sometime back, a member had posted a web link to Srila Prabhupad's Krishna book. I don't recall in which thread. May be someone can help you with that url. That way, you can see what SP had written about Rati. Already Sarasvati has mentioned the exact chapter so finding it may be easy. Or, as she suggested all Hare Krishna temples sell them. I think they cost $ 5.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Originally posted by Tirisilex:

This is a reply to Ram:

 

Are you a Guru? Because you sure sound like you are. I completely respect you.. And I give you the same respects as I do my Lama.

I am not a guru. And I think you are better off respecting your lama if he is a good practitioner with controlled mind and learn

how to control your mind. I have great regard for Buddhism. Other than Vedanta, it is the only religion which answers tough questions like the problem of evil. As you said, it is very close to Vedanta. As per Bhagavad Gita, one should control his mind and meditate on the beautiful form of the Lord. Also meditation on objects of senses will lead to delusion. As a practising Buddhist, what is your opinion about researching on Rati, who is a chaste wife of Madana ? This will lead to sense attachment, attachment and delusion.

 

I would like to learn more about Buddha's reaction to allurement. I am sure he would not have got disturbed as He is the Supreme Lord Himself. But what is the Buddhist account thereof. How is one supposed to overcome desire ?

 

[Guest guest]

I am looking for pics of rati and am not haveing much luck I saw that you have 108 - please email me a few at lady_hennessy_253@ if you would be so kind - thanks

[Tirisilex]

Lady Hennesey,

 

He wasn't serious. He does not have 108 different pictures of Rati.

[Tirisilex]

**what is the Buddhist account thereof. How is one **supposed to overcome desire ?

 

There are many teachings on how to overcome desire. One example is to visualize the desire you have to fill all beings and into the Buddhas themselves and then let it it dissolve into emptiness.

My take on this (although it is a guess) Is that this practice reminds you of the interdependence of all phenomena and that your actions and thoughts are effecting the universal existence and therefore one should let this afflictive emotion dissolve.

 

**As a practising Buddhist, what is your opinion about **researching on Rati?

 

My opinion on researching on Rati? Once I had read that the Buddha said that if there was anything stronger than sexual desire he probably would not have attained enlightenment. Sexual desire is a difficult thing to overcome. There is even a post in this forum about sexual impulses. The post "controlling sexual urge ".

You said "This will lead to sense attachment, attachment and delusion. " The Buddha has the same position. It's difficult to pin point exactly what I'm trying to accomplish because it overlaps other ideas.

The 3 mental poisons attraction, aversion, and ignorance are central in my research. I'm also looking into Tantric practices particularly those of the left hand. I'm trying to find where exactly desire fits in Buddhism. I have a difficult time understanding how desire fits in Tantric sexual practices. If you dont have desire then what is it that motivates one to do sexual practice? I mean if you have no desire then why do it?

 

The only reason why I wanted any pictures of Rati is because I am an artist and am currently a Fine Arts major. I wanted to illustrate her thats all. There are many things I would like to illustrate she happened to be one.

[Guest guest]

hi, i'm also looking for pictures of Rati... any depiction that comes close will do... as Rati is the goddess of love and affection, and my name means love, i am very interested in finding a picture of her so that i may incorporate it into a personal piece of art i am working on... if anyone finds any pictures at all, please email me at lubalubaluba@earthlink.net, i would really appreciate it. thanks!

[Guest guest]

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PICTURES OF GODDESSES