Philippine Lecture Series

[Gauracandra]

This week’s Srila Siddhaswarupananda program comes from a lecture series he held in the Philippines. It opens up with him explaining how he once saw Jimmy Carter (the former President of the United States) on television explaining why Jews, Muslims, and Christians should not be fighting. After all they all worship the same God, the God of Abraham, and so there should be peace.

 

But what about others? Is it that there should be peace only between Jews, Christians, and Muslims? What people don’t understand is that one person can have many names. We call God Govinda or Krsna. Others call Him Jehovah, or Allah. God has many names depending on His pastimes.

 

It is like a businessman. To his secretary he is “Mr. Jones”, to his son he is “Daddy”, and to his wife he is “Honey”, and to his mistress he is someone else [laughter]. And he may even have secret names. His wife might call him “Honey poo” [laughter] So people can have so many names.

 

I myself have different names. Some people call me Jagat Guru, others Siddhasvarupananda Paramahamsa, others Chris Butler, and to others Siddha. This makes it difficult as an author when you try to publicize your books [laughter]. But if I can have so many names, then certainly God can as well. God is one person who is known differently by others depending on how we relate to Him.

 

Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, our great, great grandfather in our line has said that party spirit is the greatest enemy. We have Catholics, and Protestants, so many groups. Baptists, Southern Baptists, I can’t even name them all. There are so many schisms. Its all ‘My Team vs. Your Team’.

 

We see that in sports so many athletes are becoming religious. We see this a lot in boxing. Everyone is giving praise to God. “Whose side is God on?” If you have a Christian boxer and a Muslim boxer then “Oh, surely this is a fight amongst the Gods” [laughter].

 

So they bring this down to such a low level as sports. And we see many people wearing crosses. Do they wear these crosses to remember or experience the crucifixion of Christ? No. Most often it is simply a badge.

 

Religion means understanding that you are a servant of God and that everyone is a servant of God. So everyone should be respected. True religion is not something you can join or quit. If you want to join a team, there are so many teams to join. Go join a baseball team, or the Lion’s club. We do have a center ourselves, but it is only for having spiritual association.

 

We must understand that we are all God’s children. In India there is a major problem between Muslims and Hindus. Why? Because they can’t see the spark of God within everyone. Muslims think “Oh… Hindu idol worshipper” and the Hindu says “Oh, Muslim, don’t touch me.” If you understand your spiritual identity then you see others as brothers.

 

Even animals are our brothers. Some will say that animals don’t have souls. Such people think they are the body and that their body “possesses” a soul. It is the opposite. You are a soul that temporarily possesses a body. For many years the Catholic Church debated whether Indians in America possessed a soul [note: he is referring to Native Americans, not Indians from India]. And the materialists will simply say it is all just chemical reactions.

 

It is said that “The eyes are the window to the soul”. In America people love their dogs. So next time you have the chance take a look into the eyes of your dog and then tell me no one is in there. There is consciousness and recognition. They will say that a dog is man’s best friend, but then they will deny that there is someone in that dog’s body, so in essence they are saying that no one is man’s best friend. Actually it is simply that they have forgotten that God is man’s best friend.

 

There is a spirit soul within that dog’s body. But he is in such a low form of life that he has no facility to understand who is God. He can only eat, sleep, mate, and defend. He can’t apply anything. If you give him some chanting beads he won’t know what to do. So this human form of life is the take off for spiritual development. If you use this body to establish a relationship with God, then when you die you will go back to God.

 

St. Augustine believed that there were different types of souls. There is a dog’s soul, a cat’s soul etc…. So he said essentially that God had children who would never have a chance to know him. For this we cannot accept him as a saint. There is a story in the Bible in which an angel comes down towards a man and his donkey. The donkey stops to see the angel, but the man cannot see the angel. Instead the man beats the donkey for not moving forward. The angel then chastised the man for beating the donkey. So who stopped to see the angel? These people will say that God created donkey souls such that they can never know God. We can not accept this.

 

End of program

 

[Voice over comes up. A person can never be happy so long as they think they are the body. One can only be truly satisfied if one tastes love for God. The easiest method is by chanting the Holy Names of the Lord. A short music video kirtan is held.]

[gHari]

And in the Bible while speaking to Moses, He announced that He calls Himself Yahweh, meaning 'I am', saying "I am that I am" or "I will be what I will be."

 

This very nicely describes the unique position of Sri Krsna.

 

EXODUS 3

 

13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

 

[This message has been edited by gHari (edited 06-17-2002).]

[Pita das]

nice lecture but prabhuji siddha does not like his god brothers or thier advice to him

In stead of purifing Iskcon with many of his good insructions he left and never shows interest in the Krishna Conscious movement out side of his own preaching

[theist]

Sorry to do this Pita as I have always appreciated your posts until this one.

 

Thumbs down on this though prabhu.

 

Actually Jagat Guru Siddhasvarupananda is giving a good example on how to present Krsna consciousness.

 

The Krsna conscious sphere is not limited to any one organization.

 

Do you have a specific objection to anything that he is teaching?

[mahak]

Haribol, dear friend Pita das. Missed your posts, but I would like to state that what you have said is incorrect. There is a gulf of difference between "purifing Iskcon" and renouncing those things unfavorable to the execution of Krsna Consciousness. The idea of purifying a society that is supposedly from the spiritual realm is also utterly absurd.

 

You state that he does not like his god brothers, but he publically supports all his godbrothers who are following the direction of Srila Prabhupada. The leaders of ISKCON "advice" to him has always been to die, which goes against Srila Prabhupada's direction to his disciples to not impede his preaching effort, and it goes against the absolute demand that those spreading Harinama Samkirtana live. As far as "interest in the Krishna Conscious movement", it is this very interest in all his activities. Srila Prabhupada never made a show of supporting his detractor godbrothers who denied his right to act in KC on behalf of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, and also did not act outside of his own preaching work. The whole idea is to serve god as directed by GURU, without regard to diverse and converse opinions of those who may be envious of empowered success.

 

To the subject, this lecture series is wonderful. It shows the potency of a servant of God. That he can go into a catholic country and convince the people that catholicism is perfected by accepting the principles of Bhakti Yoga, and to have such intelligent questions asked, this is also wonderful. This is how Srila Prabhupada preached in the West, stating that he is not about changing one's religion, rather enhancing it.

 

Again, gaurachandra, thanks for your work here on the forums. ys, mahaksadasa

[Pita das]

let us say it like this Mahaksa prabhu

it is best that you also assit physically in Srila Prabhupadas ISKCON as well as ShiddhaSwarupoananda Prabhu in assiting that the building and Dieties that Srila Prabhupada estabished are maintianed and serve nicely and that devottees like and this other prabhu particpate in preaching in side Srila Prabhupadas temples not just in spirit for the great bennifit of Lord Chaitanyas movement.

You are both important leaders in this movement but you both have not made yourselves present .

In regurds to any one saying that they would kill any one A vashnava can not be killed Rather in fact by his strong preaching he kills irreligionus spirit.

We are nearing our final days on this planet it is my wish that you both come into the mainstream preaching not to some small group on some islands in the sea.

Or in a house behind a computor

[Pita das]

His Grace Shiddhaswarupa introduction to Krishna Conscious seems to be a Kriya yoga approch to Bhakti abit diffrent than the rest of our sampradaya.

 

[mahak]

No, pita das, with all due respect, it is the duty of ISKCON to follow srila prabhupada's desire that we all cooperate. Just because he built the house does not mean that the present residents are just as he was.

 

Srila Prabhupada stated that ISKCON may very well go to hell, and it is up to the disciple to not follow them there. We have seen his prediction, though he did not want it, come true. ISKCON did go to hell, and disciples who did not follow them there should not be criticized, rather praised.

 

ISKCON has all the tools to repair itself, but they want to change the books, they want to charge for sunday feasts. I have many who I regard as dear friends and respect as nice devotees within ISKCON, and I also regard ISKCON as having a shadow counterpart that is the antithesis of his desire.

 

Time is short, I agree. I believe the prophets of the past and the signs are there, but even if they werent, were still dead meat. So our time should be spent well, and to criticize one who has spent his life faithfully executing the desire of his guru to bring folks to god consciousness and practicing Bhakti Yoga is not a good way to spend one's time.

 

Krya yoga does not involve harinam. Harinam is the only process of Bhakti Yoga that is effective in Kali Yuga, and everything I have ever heard from the one you criticize is leading to encouragement to engage in this process.. You make another wrong statement about this, maybe it is time to get over your troubles .

 

mahaksadasa

 

PS I wont respond to any more of your tamal stuff, gaurachandra has faithfully posted these updates to experiance the content of what is being said. You enter this room to disturb, and I request, as the other writer states, for you to demonstrate any teaching he has ever given that goes against guru-shastra-sadhu.

[mahak]

ps to pita, I "assisted" ISKCON by bringing in 20 nice candidates to Seattle Temple in 1983. We were not welcome. The zonal guru rejected us without even meeting any of those who wanted to expand. My fathers house was off limits to me and any who knew me. When we left, we wiped our feet as we walked down the road.

[theist]

Pita das,

 

Please explain that a bit further.Have you ever read Prabhupada's small book entitled Message of Godhead?I haven't for years but I will read it today.

 

I am curious as to what is meant by kriya yoga also.There was a thread asking this question and I was watching it but it faded out.

 

I see Siddhasvarupa preaching message to be exactly like Srila Prabhupada's.Exactly relevant to his audience.Should he instead spend that valuable time with lectures dedicated to to an explainaton of manvantaras or something?

 

You say it is different from this GV parampara's message.So that is calling him a deviant.Now kindly prove it.

 

Hare Krsna

theist

[Pita das]

Dear Mahaksa and Theist

Hare Krishna!Please acceapt my humble obeisances!All Glories to Shree Shree Guru and Gouranga!

all Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

The lecture that was posted here was recorded over 20 years ago ?(true)the knowledge within is timeless and still relavant

 

Our god brother tho closed the only temple in New Zealand that was set up by our brother Tusta Krishna Prabhu , it was set up under the system Srila Prabhupada showed us????It was very sucessful part and only ave of Krishna Conscousness in NZ at the time.?

 

We are very interested in how he is preaching today.

 

We say he seems to be following Kriya Yoga system as The dieties of Lord Krishna and worship of His murti is not being taught/shown as far as I know by our godbrother

hatha yoga and diffrent kinds of yogic exercises are tho taught.

 

If our god brother could make himself more advaiable we would like to hear from him ,his understanding of Krishna Consciousness it seems he is like a yogi in a cave only making advailable lectures and articles of 20 years ago.???

 

If I am wrong please correct me.

 

Mahaksa you haven't a clue of my relationship with Tamal Krishna Maharaja.

What you may of read was before his depature it was inttended as a message to him.

 

Goswami Maharaja was very critical of Shiddaswrupananda Prabhu but he noted his greatestness of placing the Holy Name on to the mainland Chinese television network along with his hatha yoga classes many many years ago like in 1981 .

If I told what i have heard Goswami speak Im sure it would'nd go down very well with any one .

 

 

We invite you to refom ISKCON as it hasnt gone to Hell as you say

but it has major problems which many Goswami Maharaja made .

He liked to hear what a persons opinon was .

Most of the time tho it had to be submited in writing he wasnt able to hear another person in front of himself as he had such strong feelings.

 

He at tho never stopped trying to make it better.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 06-18-2002).]

[Pita das]

also Mahaksa I never enter a forum to offend

I have carefully read almost every post I have ever seen by you .

I am sorry tho I can not be 100% one with you in concludison all the time.

I have no intension to uproot which within your heart .

Iam intrested to hear all of your experences in Krishna Consciousness.

 

Anything that I say which is offensive may Janavi Prabhu erase I sumbit my self

 

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 06-18-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 06-18-2002).]

[Pita das]

Theist His Grace Shiddhaswarupaanadas Prabhus preaching is excellant

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

We say he seems to be following Kriya Yoga system as The dieties of Lord Krishna and worship of His murti is not being taught/shown as far as I know...

As far as I know they worship the pictures of the Lord, which are authorized deity representations of Krishna as per the shastra.

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 06-19-2002).]

[theist]

Pita dasji,

 

Siddhasvarupa does not teach hatha-yoga as a path to realize Krsna.He does teach bhakti-yoga.

 

In 1976 or 77 he installed Gaura Nitai Deities at his farm in Kauai.I always had the impression though that the emphasis was placed on congregational chanting.Either way surely there is room for variety of approach as long as the siddhanta remains the same.

 

Don't listen to decades old gossip prabhu.Do your own direct investigation if interested.

 

My respects to you Pitaji

[Bebot]

I was there in one of these Philippine lectures by Srila Siddha Swarupananda and I must admit that after listening to this teacher my whole life has changed. To be honest before this personal encounter I was always skeptical about anything outside the Catholic Church. I thought the Bible was the only scripture and the church was the only way. But for what ever reason I accidentally was able to attend one of these lectures and todate I am reading the Gita as well as the Bible and has been chanting thru japa and silent meditation since. I don't have any association in my part of the states where I live and I don't belong to any group. In fact I have never been to any temple what ever sect that is. I owe a lot to Srila Siddha Swarupa and I have always been trying to follow his teachings even if that was the last time I have seen him physically. Its just amazing that lot of people claiming to be devotees and at the same time are critisizing somebody who has been giving and introducing Lord Krishna to others. I know since I am one of these lucky individuals who came to know the Supreme Person thru this devotee.

I have been following Guara's write ups since he has been doing summary of Srila Siddha Swarupa's lectures. I do apprciate it a lot. my regards.

[mahak]

Hare Krsna. The story from the new writer is very interesting, and makes me want to repeat a direct experiance that shows that a Vaisnava can directly surcharge the spark of real spiritual life in the heart of all who hear. Please do not take this as a sentimental blind accolade, because I have still yet to meet someone who has more viciously attacked this person more than myself. But facts are fact, and here is a story about a late afternoon kirtana at Baldwin Park, Maui.

 

There was a program going on, and all of his siksa students were in attendance. There was agreat kirtana that followed, and feasting was great. As those who know Baldwin Park in the early 70s, it was somewhat a place where folks were hyjacked by the local paniolo crowd (for reasons I do not totally disagree with). A bunch of Portugese cowboys were approaching, dangerously, while we were chanting. These local folks were skeptical, and wanted very much to defend their Catholic Faith. They tried to disturb the Kirtan by being loud and aggressive, and even threatening. Siddhaswarupa gently spoke to them when they said we worship false gods. One leader of the paniolos, mildly intoxicated, shouted "Papa Dio" is God. Siddha agreed in full with the vision of God as Master, receptical of all service, the ultimate Papa. He began to chant "Papa Dio", and suddenly the kirtana expanded by six or seven, and these cowboys were markedly happy with us, with God, and all their doubts about the authenticity of Siddhaswarupa's message were removed. They chanted "Papa Dio" very happily with the assembly of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, showing that humble and gentile persuasion as prescribed by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur is indeed the proper preaching method.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

BTW, this is one of my fondest memories of the Krsna Consciousness Movement, and to this day, in lonely bhajana, I sometimes sing "Papa Dio" without the slightest fear that I have abridged the science of Bhakti Yoga.

[stonehearted]

Put me shoulder-to shoulder with my old friend Mahaksa here. To say that Siddhasvarupananda doesn't care for his godbrothers is more than inaccurate: it's repeating an old lie. In fact, he was chased out of ISKCON two or three times. What did you give up when you joined--a motorcycle, a stereo, a couple of huindred dollars? Siddha came with a hundred disciples, several expensive properties on two Hawaiian islands, and a bunch of money. He turned everything over to Srila Prabhupada's representatives, slept on the floor next to us, stood in line with us to shower early in the morning with a garden hose, washed our dishes, and ran himself into the ground every day on sankirtan. He, Turiya das, and I began Hawaii's dor-to-door preaching one Sunday afternoon in Manoa Valley. He went to Kauai and with nothing but his faith in Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and Srila Prabhupada and started a Krishna conscious community there, later installing perhaps the most beautiful Deities of Gaura-Nitai, I've ever seen (Gaura-purnima 1977), and has since preached all over the world. He has cooperated with his godbrothers when they have made it possible. His devotees in Poland helped greatly with the court case there, even after I saw ISKCON members complain bitterly about the huge number of devotees he and Tusta Krishna prabhu made there. His disciples have told me of how he's instructed them to receive some of his sannyasi godbrothers when they come to Honolulu.

 

His disciples do engage in simple Deity worship; here on the Big Island, at Garuda and Mukunda's farm in Opihikao, they have a very nice, but simple, old-style, altar with pictures of Gaura-Nitai and our disciplic succesion, gorgeously decorated with flowers they grow on their farm. When, during the Sudnay feast kirtan, the arati starts, Garuda has trained the devotees to stand to receive the Lord. (I have seen at least one ISKCON center where devotees and guests have developed the habit of sitting through the evening arati. That has become their standard there, and I'm embarrassed by it when I'm there.)

 

He works outside ISKCON because, despite his sincee efforts to do whatever Srila Prabhupada asked him to do, he was never accepted by ISKCON's big guns. TKG, Rupanuga, and others, did everything they could to drive him away. Hansaduta's people in the Philippines wanted to kill him and Sudama Vipra. So let's back off. If you can't appreciate what he has done, at least leave him alone. If you think working within ISKCON is the only (or at least the best) way to serve Srila Prabhupada, fine: set that example and show us your success at reforming the institution.

 

Sorry if this reads harshly, but I've long been fed up with the self-righteous devotees who claim that only their approach to service pleases Srila Prabhupada. Here's a story from Fiji, recounted in Bhurijana prabhu's "My Glorious Master":

 

Guru-kripa Swami sat a Prabhupada's feet and asked Prabhupada a pointed question: Prabhupada, what about some devotees who are not intersted in book distribution? These devotees don't seem to be carrying the mood of their spiritual master. They are not into preaching, but instead get into other projects, like farms."

 

Prabhupada replied firmly, "Do you think the spiritual master is adumb stone who cannot instruct defferent disciples in different ways?"

[Gauracandra]

Very nice story Mahak. I can sympathize with Pita Das's views, in that it would be great for everyone to be united under one roof. But for historical reasons this likely won't happen. Still, the past is the past. It doesn't really matter. I really do appreciate his preaching. It is a different style but effective.

[gHari]

Thank you for the perspective, Stonehearted. Mahaksa dasa's word is good enough for me. You have just added the icing to the cake.

[theist]

I'm with gHari.

[Guest guest]

I was on the farm in Kauai back in 76 & 77. It was an awesome, very mellow time....not to be replicated, I'm sure.

[krsna]

What a classic !!! :

 

 

Here's a story from Fiji, recounted in Bhurijana prabhu's "My Glorious Master":

 

Guru-kripa Swami sat a Prabhupada's feet and asked Prabhupada a pointed question: Prabhupada, what about some devotees who are not intersted in book distribution? These devotees don't seem to be carrying the mood of their spiritual master. They are not into preaching, but instead get into other projects, like farms."

 

Prabhupada replied firmly, <font color="blue"> "Do you think the spiritual master is a dumb stone who cannot instruct different disciples in different ways?" </font color> /images/graemlins/blush.gif