Good Gaudiiya Vaishnava association - where to find it?

[krishnas]

Dear devotees,

 

I am wondering where one might find good Gaudiya Vaishnava association in the United States.

 

In about a year, I have to decide where I want to settle down. From a career standpoint, I am pretty flexible. The major stumbling block is where I can find good association. This is not something I take lightly.

 

I have visited numerous temples in the United States. I have gotten pretty tired of seeing devotees who try to represent our philosophy, but on the other hand are brazenly defiant of the regulative principles. I can't stand seeing "devotees" who go on dates, marry and divorce, who talk politics/gossip, behave like fanatics, don't dress properly, watch television, act like sentimentalists, or are uncultured in so many other ways. To me, this is really embarassing in our sampradaaya, especially when it is seen by non-Vaishnava Hindus.

 

It is not my intention to find fault with anyone, or to suggest that I am somehow better than so many other aspiring devotees. I have just come to the realization that I need to be somewhere in close proximity to mature devotees who will be a good influence on me and my loved ones. As I come from a conservative Indian family, I can't emphasize "mature" and "cultured" enough.

 

ISKCON Houston is one such temple where I was quite satisfied. For various reasons however, this may not be the ideal place for me to settle down and practice. Hence, I am interested in opinions of other devotee communities (not necessarily restricted to ISKCON).

 

Please let me know your thoughts. If you have addresses, phone numbers, and/or web pages, this would be especially helpful.

 

thanks in advance,

 

- K

 

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by krishnas:

I am wondering where one might find good Gaudiya Vaishnava association in the United States. . . . The major stumbling block is where I can find good association. This is not something I take lightly. . . . I have just come to the realization that I need to be somewhere in close proximity to mature devotees who will be a good influence on me and my loved ones. As I come from a conservative Indian family, I can't emphasize "mature" and "cultured" enough.

Why not check out the community growing around Tripurari Swami's Audarya center in the Bay area? I haven't lived there, but this is one place I would be interested in exploring further. I'm not sure you'll find the kind of company as at ISKCON Houston (professionals of Indian descent), but, from what I know of Swami and his assoiciates, it seems you should be able to find mature, thoughtful devotees.

 

You can find his Web site at http://www.swami.org/

 

Yours in service,

Babhru das

 

 

[Pita das]

wow prabhu you have an even higher standard than I do.

If you can afford the bay area Tripurai Swami is very good assoication.

I have found Atlanta New Pantihati ISKCON temple very nice.

[Guest guest]

If you send me a mail to my address v_raja_ram@, I can probably refer you to some serious devotees.

[shvu]

 

I can't stand seeing "devotees" who go on dates, marry and divorce, who talk politics/gossip, behave like fanatics, don't dress properly, watch television, act like sentimentalists, or are uncultured in so many other ways.

Out of curiosity, is it wrong for Gaudiiya vaishnavas to watch television?

 

To me, this is really embarassing in our sampradaaya, especially when it is seen by non-Vaishnava Hindus.

Again, out of curiosity, why should a devotee care about public opinion?

 

Thanks

 

[krishnas]

Originally posted by shvu:

Again, out of curiosity, why should a devotee care about public opinion?

 

Thanks

Imagine preaching to a group of Non-Vaishnava Hindus. You explain the importance of following dharmic behavior, discuss basic aspects of Krishna conscious philosophy, etc etc. Then you bring them to a local ISKCON (or other) temple where devotees don't follow most of those principles. I have met (mostly Western) devotees in ISKCON who divorce, go on dates, and do other things which even many Hindus were raised to avoid doing.

 

Nothing is black and white, of course, but it stands to reason that propagation of Sanaatana-dharma can only happen in the association of people who practice what they preach. If the public wrongfully villifies the devotees, then this is one thing, perhaps a burden that is to be surmounted in our quest to better serve Lord Krishna. But when the criticisms are well founded, then it is hard to hold such devotees as an example to be followed.

 

Whether the devotees are in Indian bodies or not is also of no concern to me. I like to think that Vedic culture transcends bodily designations, and since I have met Westerners who practice Vedic culture better than many Indians, I am sure it is quite possible.

 

I find that the best association is with those devotees who faithfully follow their gurus, who don't indulge in politics or sentimentalism, and who follow the regulative principles. I like to be able to speak to a devotee and get something back. I like being able to discuss the meaning of complicated shlokas with like-minded individuals. For example, if I were to discuss the fall vs no-fall theory with someone, I enjoy the company of a devotee who can discuss the evidence without getting upset and quoting GBC regulations.

 

 

 

[krishnas]

Originally posted by stonehearted:

Why not check out the community growing around Tripurari Swami's Audarya center in the Bay area? I haven't lived there, but this is one place I would be interested in exploring further. I'm not sure you'll find the kind of company as at ISKCON Houston (professionals of Indian descent), but, from what I know of Swami and his assoiciates, it seems you should be able to find mature, thoughtful devotees.

 

You can find his Web site at http://www.swami.org/

 

Yours in service,

Babhru das

 

 

The only thing that bothered me about the Tripurari Swami community is the mass-mailings we used to get some years back advertising "spiritual sex" and so on. Although I knew exactly what he was referring to, I still found the advertising in very poor taste, both because of its content as well as the fact that it was going out almost indiscriminately.

 

Still, it's not a bad idea. I'll probably go check it out. Maybe first impressions are deceiving in this case. The Bay Area is actually a very real possibility for me. I also heard that there is a Caitanya-Sarasvati Math out there. Anyone know anything about it?

 

 

[muralidhar]

Originally posted by krishnas:

I also heard that there is a Caitanya-Sarasvati Math out there. Anyone know anything about it?

 

 

Dandabat Prabhu,

 

Information about the Californian temples of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math is available here on this page:

http://scsmath.org/memories/0206/020612santacruz.html

 

The main temples of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math around the world are all listed on this page:

 

http://www.mandala.com.au/temples.htm

 

Also, Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj, the Acharya of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math, is just about to set out on a new World Tour. This will be his 19th World Tour. Plans for the new tour are for visits to London, St Petersburg and Moscow. But a continuation of the tour to California and Hawaii is not impossible. Last year Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaj was hospitalised after having two strokes, but he is now feeling a little stronger and he is eager to travel and meet the devotees in foreign lands.

 

See this page for more information:

http://www.scsmath.com/new.html

 

your servant,

Muralidhar das

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by muralidhar (edited 06-20-2002).]

[krishnas]

Thank you Muralidhar Prabhu for those links. But I was already aware of those links and the information they contain. What I wanted to know is the devotees' impressions of the Chaitanya Sarasvati Math in California. What are these devotees like? Are they strict in their saadhana? Do they get involved in institutional politics, or do they really prefer katha? Do things like divorce, dating, etc exist in the CS community in California?

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Krishnas,

 

To be honest, I think you might find it difficult to find a community that matches up to your standards. The thing is almost by definition the larger a community the more varied people there will be. So you can find many good people, some higher, some not so high. If your standards are that high I suspect you will only find a relatively small group you will be able to associate with.

 

Having said that, I will say that I think that the Houston temple was the most professional temple I have ever visited. Everything was very well organized.

 

One other thing, I know you said within the United States, but I just thought of mentioning Australia and New Zealand. I have never been to any of these communities, but I am convinced they must be very nice. I say this because for some strange reason devotees, at random, with no connection to one another, have consistently told me that New Zealand and Australian devotees are some of the nicest devotees they have ever met. Just out of spontaneous conversation someone will chime in and say that. So now having heard it so many times, I'm pretty sure this must be true

[theist]

If you do come to the bay area you are always welcome to come by my house and watch boxing with me and my ilk.

 

Non-alcholic beer,chips , veggie burgers and a good top heavyweight bout.What could be more fun.

 

I'm hoping for a match up soon between Lennox Lewis and my main man Wladimir Klitscho.

 

If that is not up to your tastes though there are still a lot of great bhaktas around here.

 

It is good to seek the best association.It is even better to be that good association for others.

 

If we place more importance on finding the perfect group then on finding that perfection within ourselves we will always remain somewhere on the outside looking in.

 

Still your desire to avoid superfical association is well taken.

 

Good luck prabhu.

[Sarasvati]

"watch television, act like sentimentalists, or are uncultured in so many other ways. To me, this is really embarassing in our sampradaaya, especially when it is seen by non-Vaishnava Hindus."

 

As if "non-Vaishnava Hindus" didn't watch TV, or act like sentimentalists every now and then.

Duh.

 

Anyway, I undertsnad that you wish to learn from devotees who are more advanced than you and can guide you. Association is very important. You could also consider temples in Europe. I heard that the devotees in Russia are very fixed up. Or what about India?

 

So many Indian gentleman come to the US and then find it difficult to cope with the fact that the society is so materialistic. Yet, they came to the States with material motives in the first place (ie. to make money). Unless one is preaching, there is really no point in staying in America, the stalwart devotees (you are seeking) would tell you.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

As if "non-Vaishnava Hindus" didn't watch TV, or act like sentimentalists every now and then.

Duh.

But they are not Gaudiya Vaishnavas. The point is more about practicing what you preach.

 

[krishnas]

Originally posted by Sarasvati:

So many Indian gentleman come to the US and then find it difficult to cope with the fact that the society is so materialistic. Yet, they came to the States with material motives in the first place (ie. to make money). Unless one is preaching, there is really no point in staying in America, the stalwart devotees (you are seeking) would tell you.

In my case, the situation is not quite so black and white. I had the great misfortune of being born and educated in this country. Now I must remain in the United States at least for a few years to pay off my medical school debt. There is no way I could practice in India and do this, what with the 1:40 dollar:rupee exchange rate.

 

Also of concern is the increasingly lawless behavior of young Indian males on the streets of India. My wife told me many stories of girls being harassed, chased, etc without provocation. I can't say I blame her for not wanting to go back to that, even though she otherwise has no love for America, American culture, and American people (including Americanized Indians).

 

If I could go back and live in India, I might check out this Narasingha-Chaitanya Matha in Karnataka. It looks like Gaudiiya Vaishnavism with a Vedic/South Indian twist. Maybe the Bhaktivedanta Ashram people would also be more to my liking.

 

 

[krishnas]

Originally posted by Sarasvati:

Anyway, I undertsnad that you wish to learn from devotees who are more advanced than you and can guide you. Association is very important. You could also consider temples in Europe. I heard that the devotees in Russia are very fixed up. Or what about India?

 

Sometimes being "fixed up" (in the colloquial sense) can also be a problem. I have met devotees who follow the four main regulative principles to the letter. Yet it does not come naturally to them, and they come across as very angry people with few interpersonal skills.

 

I like to think that being "fixed up" in Krishna-consciousness does not just mean being able to mechanically follow regulative principles, but also following them naturally. There are also many other regulative principles of Vedic culture, like speaking gently, respecting one's elders, being faithful to the Vedas, showing hospitality to a guest, etc. These things shouldn't be forgotten while attempting to follow the four main regulative principles.

 

..K

 

[bhaktajoy]

Yes India is like that specially the state of UP and Bihar.This is the story.They are both extremely holy land but see.I am living in USA for 3 years now and here it's peaceful.It's good to take birth here because all material desires are easily fulfilled then one becomes unhappy and searches out for the absolute truth.It's also good to take birth in India because we become used to material miseries and no need for AC and high-tech life.Spiritual growth is fast.Harassment all over there--in schools,in public places,outside shops,etc.Teacher beat students with wooden rods.One teacher slapped me so hard I couldn't hear for 2 days.

[atma]

It is so easy to be a devotee in places like Mayapur with wonderful kirtanas, beautiful deities, nice prasada, hundreds of devotees,etc, that's why I appreciate even more the devotees in the West where is so much sense gratification and there are so many who are very fixed in their bhakti yoga. I see it here in the community, there are some nice devotees who are really gentle and they give nice association. Others are trying and still others like me who are on the side just trying not to watch too many movies or forwarding too many jokes. Wherever you're try to see the bees not the flies and if there is not one to give you the honey give your association to them and in that way they won't be flies anymore.

 

I met many indian devotees of different maths and they do have their scandals, only they keep it in private or they cover up everything. India is becoming very fast the way Mira Nair portrays them in movies like 'Monsoon Wedding'and 'Fire'. They don't have many divorces because for women is very difficult to go back to the father's house and in that way they tolerate infedility, abuse, etc. They still know how to serve a guest though.

Abortion is rampant everywhere in India and I know a few indian ladies from brahmana families who had abortion. Really sad.

I met so many cultured, conservative Indian families and I was quite dissapointed, the tales are terrible, as I said before, they keep it under the carpet. Keep the wife for the family name and have a few mistresses around. Lot of illicit sex in all kind of families in India.

 

BTW, Gauracandra, I had association with many Australians and they are the nicest people, really easy going and very good hearted, of course they have problems with divorce and illicit affairs but they are really good people. I like them.

 

Good luck Krsnas with your search, I agree with Gauracandra that a small community will be the best. What community in Karnataka you are talking about it?

[stonehearted]

Originally posted by krishnas:

If I could go back and live in India, I might check out this Narasingha-Chaitanya Matha in Karnataka. It looks like Gaudiiya Vaishnavism with a Vedic/South Indian twist. Maybe the Bhaktivedanta Ashram people would also be more to my liking.

 

If I were going to live in India, Narasingha-Chaitanya Math would be the first place I check out. Narasingha Maharaja and Vishnu Maharaja were recently here on the Big Island. South Indian brahmanas send their sons to them for training and initation. They present Gaudiya Vaishnavism in a way those folks can appreciate. Looks good to me.

[Pita das]

I lived at ISKCON Houston working with and serveing the Indian Community for 3 years 1978 79 80 .

There was very nice sangam then Im sure it may of been greatly improved.

What you have learned for the devottees who inspiried you there take with you .

Act with those you met like those devottees acted with you .

A sencere person gets sencere assoication by Krishna mercy on him .

Please depend on Krishna to help with this and see where He leads you.

That means if one day you want to turn left dont turn right

 

[This message has been edited by Pita das (edited 06-23-2002).]

[Rati]

There are always the Shree Sampradaya devotees, who have built many nice temples in the West. They are very courteous to and affectionate towards Gaudiya Vaishnavas. Also, you won't have to listen to anti-Rtvik rhetoric or be given the third degree about who your guru is. Just remember to be respectful towards their beliefs, which are not all the same as ours.

 

 

[krishnas]

Originally posted by Rati:

There are always the Shree Sampradaya devotees, who have built many nice temples in the West. They are very courteous to and affectionate towards Gaudiya Vaishnavas. Also, you won't have to listen to anti-Rtvik rhetoric or be given the third degree about who your guru is. Just remember to be respectful towards their beliefs, which are not all the same as ours.

 

 

I had some nice Sri Vaishnava association back in Dallas. Their natural piety is a nice change to the hypocrisies I would sometimes see among Western devotees. But then again, SV's living in America have definitely let go off a lot of regulations - like drinking coffee/tea, etc.

 

Some SV's that I spoke to told me of times they used to spend back in the good old days working with ISKCON devotees. But those stories almost invariably came to a horrible end, usually because things started getting crazy on the ISKCON side. One nice elder couple told me of their times in New Vrindaavan. You can guess why they no longer continue going to New Vrindaavan.

 

I think it's a shame that ISKCON can't hang on to the support of conservative Vaishnavas. They start off doing well together, but it all just goes to hell in the end.

Then again, the beliefs of Sri Vaishnavas can be trying at times. The moderator of the Bhakti list, for example, is really in love with Western paradigms of history and science. He believes in evolution, for example, and also thinks that the Indologists had it right when they described how Vedas were created. Even when it is pointed out how unorthodox such views are, he maintains them.

[Gauracandra]

Alachua has a very big devotee community and I'm sure good employment opportunities. Though I have heard it is a bit cliquish.

[krishnas]

Here's a question. What do devotees think of the San Jose devotee community? There is an ISKCON preaching center there, as well as an ashram of the Narasingha-Chaitanya Math.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I thought the San Jose gaudiya matha was Chaitanya Sarasvata Matha, Govinda Maharaja's disciples.

 

The ISKCON temple in San Jose is very nice, old style. The devotees there are very dedicated and work hard and sincerely. They would certainly be a very beneficial association for anyone. They have a website somewhere, but I can't seem to recall the exact name.

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-02-2002).]

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Here is their website:

 

www.virtualtemple.org