Krsna, *here*?

[radharani]

Is there any textual evidence that Krsna takes on a physical form, and incarnates throughout time,just like everyone else? I've seen some texts which go against the idea, but these texts often conflict with each other. Help from the scholars?

 

[radharani]

Wouldnt this serve to better purify material nature, if he allowed his essence to become more intimately entwined within it?

[mahak]

Haribol, perhaps our scholarly host can shed some light on the Virata Rupa "physical" Form of the Supreme Lord. Krsna, per se, comes as He is, pure spiritual substance. And though His appearance and disappearance may seem to come from matter, this is only a display of His Yogamaya feature. It is a transcendental illusion that gives vision of physical birth and disappearance in the material world.

 

Again, citations from more scholarly devotees may better answer your questions, which are very good, and refreshing.

[xxvvii]

Is there any Indian nde site?

[bhaktajoy]

http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/death/nde.asp

 

http://www.oberf.org/prana's_sobe.htm

 

http://nderf.org/shibani's_nde.htm this girl was a hare krsna but she was born in buddhist family she now follows buddhism)

 

http://nderf.org/India%20Physician's.htm

 

http://near-death.com/hindu.html

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 06-23-2002).]

 

[This message has been edited by bhaktajoy (edited 06-23-2002).]

[radharani]

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to trace the incarnations of Krsna, assuming he comes around every time and just doesnt make it known. I'm guessing one was Jesus, and he probably also had something to do with the development of serious philosophy in Ancient Greece . . .he's probably written a lot of books under various pseudonyms in lifetime after lifetime

[radharani]

Maybe he was George Washington, and also had something to do with Shakespeare's writings

[radharani]

I wonder if his dark side dominated during a lifetime or lifetimes in the medieval period, torture chambers, etc; also he was probably some of the kings of history

[radharani]

just pondering . . .

[Guest guest]

 

interesting questions!

 

according to vedic texts Krishna incarnates on a schedule.

 

the various avatars also.

 

In fact God is everything ,everywhere,krishna says I am indra,I am surya,I am the sun,the moon,intelligence,wealth,etc.

 

nothing is seperate from god.

 

The incarnations of god,avatars,are sometimes hidden,these are not incarnations of Krishna though.

 

"Krishna" denotes a specific personality of god.

Any other avatar that does something different then Krishna ,like being a cowherd boy,prince of Dwarka,reciter of Bhagavad gita

etc., is not considered to be qualified to be called Krishna.

 

Although other avatars are the same supreme being,they are displaying different personalities and acting in different capacities then Krishna.

 

As far as jesus,or other historical figures,they are all under the control and supervision of god,so whether they are indeed god's avatars or not,God id still in control of their activities.

[radharani]

the schedule is every some thousand years or so (?), i think i've heard that, not sure. where could i read this part of the vedas

[bhaktajoy]

Krishna will descend again after 8.5 billion years as told by Srila Prabhupada.

[nachiketa]

Originally posted by bhaktajoy:

Krishna will descend again after 8.5 billion years as told by Srila Prabhupada.

 

I thought it was ~427,000 years, at the end of Kali-yuga.

 

[bhaktajoy]

Actually it is 8.6 billion years...guess there is no margin for error

 

At the end of kali yuga God takes avatara.Kalki is not God but only a personality of Godhead.Supreme personality Krishna descends once in a day of Brahma.

[bhaktajoy]

Understanding God

 

 

So far we have covered some very important topics: the difference between the body and soul, the separated material energies, the three modes of material nature, the universe and what lies beyond it, time, and the spiritual world. Central to all these is God. The Vedas are the only true extensive source of information concerning God. No other scripture gives such richness of detail. Since God is infinite, and we are so minute and limited, it is impossible to ever truly understand Him. We can, however, by His grace, understand some of His more important aspects, as He has revealed Them to us. We will now take a look at these major aspects.

 

“The Supreme Lord is Krishna, known as Govinda. His form is eternal bliss and knowledge, and He is the original cause of all causes.” (Brahma-samhita, 5.1)

 

Here we learn three interesting points concerning God. The first is His name: Krishna (which mean the all-attractive in Sanskrit) and Govinda (which means He who gives pleasure to the senses or the cows). Later we will see why this peculiar importance is given to the cow. Secondly, we learn that God’s form is sac-cid-ananda, eternal bliss and knowledge. This is the very form of pure spirit – eternal bliss and knowledge. Here in the material world we are used to forms made from a combination of the eight separated material energies, but pure spirit is always sac-cid-ananda. God always has this form. He never, ever, assumes any other form than this. Even when he comes to the material world, He remains sac-cid-ananda. Never does He assume a material form, made of the eight separated material energies. Remember that these eight separated material energies are His inferior energy, not His original, superior spiritual energy. We should now recall that we are His parts and parcels. As such, our original nature is also of eternal bliss and knowledge. Now we can begin to understand what a tragic and tremendous waste of time it is to be ignorant of our spiritual nature, not to be self-realized. We are constituted of eternal bliss and knowledge, and yet we uselessly seek pleasure in the material world, in a material body. It’s like being the world’s richest person and yet forgetting this and living a life of absolute poverty in the dirtiest street, eating out of garbage cans and sleeping in the gutter. This is our situation and why this knowledge being presented is the most important in all existence. Lastly, we learn in this verse that Lord Krishna is the, “the original cause of all causes.” Krishna also says this in the Bhagavad-gita:

 

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.” (Bhagavad-gita, 10.8)

 

God is not just the Supreme Person. He is the Absolute Truth. As we have shown before, everything that exists is His energy, is produced by Him. He is full in all opulences, namely strength, wealth, fame, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation in infinite degrees. This is why His supremacy is completely unquestionable. He is the source of everything, the cause of all other causes. Nothing happens that was not sanctioned by the Lord, nothing exists, that is not His energy.

 

Let’s now understand better how Krishna is the Absolute Truth:

 

“Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan” (Srimad Bhagavatam, 1st Canto, Chapter 2, verse 11)

 

Krishna further says in the Bhagavad-gita:

 

“And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is immortal, imperishable, and eternal and is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness.” (Bhagavad-gita, 14.27)

 

“I am the Supersoul [Paramatma], O Arjuna, seated in the hearts of all living entities. I am the beginning, middle and end of all beings.” (Bhagavad-gita, 10.20)

 

Thus God is realized in three aspects: impersonal (Brahman), localized (Paramatma or Supersoul), and as the Supreme Personality of Godhead (Bhagavan). In his aspect as Brahman he pervades the entire existence and is the object of adoration by all impersonalist practices, such as Buddhism and monism. Whenever you see someone seeking a vague form of the Divine, a cosmic energy, etc., you can understand that he is just seeking Brahman, the impersonal form of God. This is not a very advanced conception, however. More advanced than this is the understanding that God is present in a localized form in all living beings and in all atoms. This is the Paramatma realization, where one understands that God is actually present in one’s heart, not figuratively, but factually so, and also in the heart of all living beings as well as in all atoms of creation. Topmost of all, however, is the understanding of God in His supreme personal form, Bhagavan, with His sac-cid-ananda name, activities, abode, associates, pastimes, etc. Realization of God as Bhagavan includes the other two aspects of God and is therefore the most perfect understanding of the Absolute Truth.

 

The highest aspect of this Absolute Truth is Lord Krishna, Govinda. In the Srimad Bhagavatam we find hundreds and hundreds of pages just describing Krishna and His form, pastimes, eternal associates, abodes, etc. Here are some verses from another important scripture, the Brahma-samhita, which also briefly describe Him:

 

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor who is tending the cows, yielding all desires, in abodes built with spiritual gems, surrounded by millions of purpose trees, always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds and thousands of laksmis or gopis.” (Brahma-samhita, 5.29)

 

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is adept in playing on His flute, with blooming eyes like lotus petals with head bedecked with peacock’s feathers, with the figure of beauty tinged with the hue of blue clouds, and His unique loveliness charming millions of cupids.” (Brahma-samhita, 5.30)

 

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, round whose neck is swinging a garland of flowers beautified with the moon-locket, whose two hands are adorned with the flute and jeweled ornaments, who always revels in pastimes of love, whose graceful threefold-bending form of Syamasundara is eternally manifest” (Brahma-samhita, 5.31)

 

“I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane.” (Brahma-samhita, 5.32)

 

Many manifestations of the one God

Having described in brief Lord Krishna, Govinda, Himself, the original form of God, it should be understood that He expands into many forms.

 

“I worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda, who is the original person – nondual, infallible, and without beginning. Although He expands into unlimited forms, He is still the original, and although He is the oldest person, He always appears as a fresh youth.” (Brahma-samhita 5.33)

 

Krishna expands into infinite forms to directly deal with infinite situations. The personal aspect of the Lord, Bhagavan, has been described as the highest aspect of the Absolute Truth. From this we understand that the personal relationship between God and His energies is the highest aspect of the Absolute Truth, which is why He expands in so many forms. In the Srimad Bhagavatam we find thousands and thousands of pages describing the principle forms the Lord assumes, and Their respective pastimes, abodes, paraphernalia, associates, and teachings. The benefits of reading it are therefore inconceivable.

 

God also expands Himself for the creation of the material universes. Since material creation is a lesser concern for Krishna, it is carried out by an expansion of and expansion of a plenary portion of Him, technically known as Maha-Vishnu. From Maha-Vishnu, a further expansion of Him enters each and every universe, and a further expansion enters the heart of all living entities and atoms of that particular universe in the form of Paramatma. We should not be confused at this point. As stated above, the nature of the Absolute Truth is that it is nondual. This means that there is absolutely no difference between one form of the Lord and another. It is one and the same Lord.

 

Since the Lord is in the hearts of all living entities and in every atom and since He is the cause of all causes and the origin of everything, it logically follows that He is the supreme controller, witness and knower:

 

“One should meditate upon the Supreme Person as the one who knows everything, as He who is the oldest, who is the controller, who is smaller than the smallest, who it the maintainer of everything, who is beyond all material conceptions, who is inconceivable, and who is always a person. He is luminous like the sun, and He is transcendental, beyond this material nature” (Bhagavad-gita, 8.9)

 

God descends to the material world

One specially merciful aspect of God, and for us of the utmost importance, is that He personally comes to this material world. Krishna explains the reasons for this:

 

“To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.” (Bhagavad-gita, 4.8)

 

Some people, due to not having proper knowledge of spiritual science, have a hard time accepting that God can personally come to this material universe, what to speak of our little planet. Those who think like this usually have a very vague, almost impersonalistic, conception of God, as a very distant Supreme Being or they just don’t think God exists. But as explained here, God does exist (actually nothing but God exists) and He is very personal in nature. Furthermore, as already described, God is always sac-cid-ananda, eternal bliss and knowledge, in any position. As Paramatama in the heart of all living entities He is sad-cid-ananda, so there is no difficulty whatsoever in Him coming personally to this material world, as He is already Here in many ways. This does not mean He becomes in any way material, or even so much as in touch with the material. Spiritual energy is superior to material energy, so when He comes, everything in contact with Him is spiritualized and is no longer material. Since the Lord is Absolute, everything about Him is Absolute and of the same eternal, all blissful nature. Thus His activities here, His pastimes, are also fully spiritual. By performing them here He attracts us back to Him. Just by hearing and talking about these pastimes, we become purified, because it allow us to get in touch with God. We have a chance to see first hand how much better the spiritual world is to the material. To give a crude example, it’s like an ad on TV. We see the product, we see it in use, the people who use it, and how happy they are with it, and thus we also desire to share that experience. Only God is the real thing. Furthermore, this higher knowledge of spiritual science could not exist in the material world if God Himself did not bring it to us, for we certainly have no ability to obtain it by any other process, as we have mentioned before. Being spiritual it is beyond the reach of the material.

 

The last time Krishna manifested His pastimes as Govinda on this planet was about 5,000 years ago, at the end of the previous age. He also appeared in 1486 in the guise of His own devotee as Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. An authorized account of His sac-cid-ananda life, instructions and pastimes can be found in the famous medieval masterpiece, Sri Caitanya Caritamrta. These two appearances of the Lord in His highest aspect are quite special and only occur once every day of Brahma, or once every 8.6 billion years. In both times this knowledge of spiritual science was confirmed and fully explained by the Lord Himself. It is therefore our duty to take full of advantage of this very rare opportunity for our eternal benefit.

 

God appears in His Deity form

 

Another very important form the Lord assumes is His Deity form, technically known as arca-vigraha. The Lord will accept a form made out of paint, wood, stone, metal, or one within your mind, as long as it is in accordance to the procedures and descriptions contained in the revealed scriptures. By doing this the Lord becomes visible to our material eyes, and touchable by our material hands. Thus He mercifully allows us to approach Him, bow down before Him, serve Him, offer Him food, flowers, and incense, decorate Him, among other things. This is not idol worship. This is direct worship of God Himself. Remember, God is nondual, absolute, so there is no difference between the Deity form found in authorized temples and His original form in the spiritual world.

 

Benefits of knowing God

 

Infinitely more can be known about the Lord, but even a little information about Him is sufficient to obtain the greatest benefits, as God Himself explains:

 

“One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.” (Bhagavad-gita, 4.9)

 

“A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries.” (Bhagavad-gita, 5.29)

 

Don’t be surprised if this all seems a bit confusing, and you don’t really understand it. Krishna explains the reason for this:

 

“One can understand Me as I am, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of Me by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.” (Bhagavad-gita, 18.55)

 

The very highest aspect of the Absolute Truth is being described here, very briefly, and certainly not by the most intelligent or eloquent person, far from it, so you cannot be expected to understand it all, but, as promised by God Himself, with practice you will understand in due time.

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Who is Sri Krishna?

Krishna is God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This fact is stated and corroborated in the Vedic scriptures and by various authorities. Lord Brahma in Brahma Samhita says, "Krishna who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes" (BS 5.1). In the Bhagavata Purana Krishna becomes the chief object of devotion. After describing various incarnations of the Lord such as Rama, Balarama, Vamana, Nrsimha, and Vishnu, Srila Sukadeva Goswami states, "All of the above mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Krishna is the original Personality of Godhead" (SB 1.3.28).

Lord Shiva in Gita Mahatmya, states that "only one God - Krishna, the son of Devaki" (Verse 7). In the Padma Purana it is stated, "By scrutinizingly reviewing all the revealed scriptures and judging them again and again, it is now concluded that Lord Narayana is the Supreme Absolute Truth, and thus He alone should be worshipped". Similarly it is said in the Skanda Purana, "In the material world, which is full of darkness and dangers, combined with birth and death and full of different anxieties, the only way to get out of the great entanglement is to accept loving transcendental devotional service to Lord Vasudeva. This is accepted by all classes of philosophers".

 

The position of Krishna as God is confirmed by great personalities like Narada, Asita, Devala, Vyasa, Parasara, Brahma and Shiva. Finally Krishna Himself confirms this fact in the Bhagavad-gita to His friend and devotee, Arjuna. He clearly says that He is "the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods" (BG 5.29), that "there is no truth superior to Me" (BG 7.7) and - "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me" (BG 10.8).

 

What is the position of Krishna?

As God, there is no one equal to or greater than Krishna. He is the original, unborn, eternal person, the most ancient, completely independent, and the cause of all causes. Parasara Muni, the father of Srila Vyasadeva and a great scholar who had himself held the position of Vyasa in a previous kalpa, very nicely defines the position of Bhagavan (God) as one Who is complete in six kinds of opulence namely - wisdom, beauty, fame, power, wealth and renunciation. While there are many great personalities who are very famous or very wealthy, only Krishna as God is replete in all six opulence.

 

The scriptures not only give us the unique position of Krishna but also give us a detailed description of all His aspects. They tell us that above this temporary material universe is an eternal spiritual world called Vaikuntha, and Krishna lives in the topmost planet of this universe called Goloka Vrindavana which is full of palaces made of touch-stone (cintamani), with trees that are capable of fulfilling all desires (kalpa-vraksha) and cows that are called Surabhi.

 

Here Krishna eternally resides, served by hundreds and thousands of goddesses of fortune. He sports with His most confidential and intimate devotees, headed by Srimati Radharani. He has a form just like us but His body is spiritual and thus eternal. His complexion is dark-blue, like that of a rain-filled cloud and His eyes are like lotus petals. He is ever youthful, full of bliss and His beauty excels that of thousands of cupids. He likes to play the flute, He sports a crown with a peacock feather and He is adorned by the exquisite kastuba jewel.

 

What is Krishna avatar?

In Chaitanya-charitamrita (2.20.263-264) it is stated that the "avatar, or incarnation of Godhead, descends from the kingdom of God for creating and maintaining the material manifestation. And the particular form of the Personality of Godhead who so descends is called an incarnation, or avatar. Such incarnations are situated in the spiritual world, the kingdom of God. When They descend to the material creation, They assume the name avatar."

 

The Srimad Bhagavatam states that there are countless incarnations just like the waves of the oceans. They fall in various categories like lila (pastime), yuga (period of yuga), manavantara (period of Manu), purusa (Vishnu expansions) and shaktivesa (empowered). These avatars perform various pastimes based on the time, place and circumstances, but their purpose is always the same - "to attract the conditioned souls back to their eternal spiritual abode".

 

The incarnations emanate from Vishnu. Maha-Vishnu is the original cause of all material creation and from Him Garbhodakashai-Vishnu expands and then Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu. Generally all incarnations appearing within the material world are plenary portions of Ksirodakasayi-Vishnu (also known as Hari).

 

However only once in a day of Lord Brahma (which lasts for 4.32 billion of our years), does Krishna descend in His original form, as the avataree, the cause of all avatars. When Krishna appears all the incarnations join with Him. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the complete whole and all the plenary portions and incarnations always live with Him. So when Krishna appeared, Lord Vishnu was always with Him, and while Krishna enjoyed His pastimes in Vrindavan, the killing of the demons was actually carried out by the His Vishnu portion. Since Krishna eternally resides in Vrindavan, when He left Vrindavan at the age of ten, it was His Vasudeva expansion that actually left.

 

Appearance of Krishna

In the era of the Svayambhuva Manu, prajapati Sutapa and his wife Prsni were instructed by Lord Brahma to have progeny. They performed severe austerities for twelve thousand years of the demigods to have the Lord as their child. Pleased by their austerities the Lord appeared and granted them this benediction. Since He gave them this benediction three times, in Satya-yuga He first appeared as the son of Prsni and Sutapa and was called Prsnigarba. In Treta-yuga they were Aditi and Kasyapa Muni and the Lord appeared as Vamanadeva. Finally in the Dvapara yuga, Krishna in His original form, appeared as the child of Devaki and Vasudeva.

 

Krishna appeared specifically on the request of Bhudevi, the presiding deity of the Earth planet. Distressed by the burden of many demons who had appeared as powerful Kshatriyas and were ruling the planet impiously, she assumed the form of a cow and pleaded to Lord Brahma for help. Lord Brahma with all the demigods prayed to Lord Vishnu in Svetadvipa by chanting the Purusa-sukta prayers. At this time the Lord informed Brahma that in order to establish religiosity and destroy evil, He would soon appear as His original Self. In the meantime the various demigods were instructed to take birth in various families in the Yadu dynasty and prepare for the appearance of the Lord.

 

(For more on Advent of Krishna)

 

Lifeline of Sri Krishna

Historically, Lord Krishna appeared in the Dvapara yuga, on the midnight of the 8th day of the dark half of the month of Sravan. This corresponds to July 19th 3228 BC. He exhibited His pastimes for a little over 125 years and disappeared on February 18th 3102 BC on the new moon night of Phalgun. His departure marks the beginning of the current age of corruption known as Kali.

 

The great scholar Srila Vishvanatha Chakravarti neatly outlines Lord Krishna's activities in this way. He was born in Mathura in the prison cell of Kamsa and carried to Gokul. The first three years and four months were spent in Gokula, then equal lengths of time in Vrindavan and Nandagram. At the age of eleven He left Vrindavan for Mathura where He lived for eighteen years and four months, and finally ninety-six years and eight months in Dvaraka totaling about 126 years of manifest pastimes. At the time of Mahabharata, when Krishna spoke the Bhagavad-gita, He was about ninety years of age.

 

Pastimes of Krishna

The tenth canto of Srimad Bhagavatam describes the activities and transcendental pastimes of Sri Krishna. They are also described in the epic Mahabharata, specially in the Bhishma parva which also contains the Bhagavad-gita. The pastimes of Krishna appeal to the liberated souls, those that are trying to get liberated and also to the gross materialists.

 

The pastimes of Sri Krishna, known as Krishna-katha fall into two categories. Words spoken by Krishna, as the Bhagavad-gita, and words spoken about Krishna, as in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Souls in the liberated stage derive great pleasure in relishing anything and everything related to Krishna. For those that are trying to be liberated, Krishna-katha makes their path of liberation very clear. By studying the Gita one becomes fully conscious of the position of Sri Krishna; and when one is situated at the lotus feet of the Lord, he understands the narration's of Krishna as described in the Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Even the gross materialists are attracted by the pleasure pastimes of Krishna with the Gopis and His wives. Even though the loving affairs of Krishna have nothing to do with the gross, mundane sex affairs, they attract the people engrossed in sense-gratification and gradually elevate them to higher levels of spirituality.

 

Causeless mercy of Krishna

Even though Krishna is completely self sufficient and self satisfied, He descends for the benefit of all the conditioned souls. His most endearing quality is that of "bhakta vatsala". His pure devotees are always trying to please Him, and He is always trying to please His devotees. Just as He lives in the heart of His devotees, His devotees constantly reside in Him.

 

Krishna is so merciful that He not only helps His devotees, but also those who are envious of Him. Krishna destroys evil by providing them with an opportunity to take up devotion.

 

On the greatly auspicious day of Krishna-Janamashtami, let us all pray to Sri Krishna for a drop of His causeless mercy, for only that alone is sufficient to take us out from this material word, back home, back to Godhead.

 

All glories to the appearance day of Lord Krishna ! All glories to Sri Krishna and His devotees !!

 

Courtesy of http://www.acbspn.com/festivals/janmastami.htm with a few adapted links from us:

 

 

[srikant]

bhaktajoy,

the excerpts you included were very enlightening; I found the site link good too.

[paul108]

Originally posted by radharani:

Wouldnt this serve to better purify material nature, if he allowed his essence to become more intimately entwined within it?

One Krishna devotee told me that He has done this. The personality's name is Siva.

[Dharma]

I can think of one:

 

"Though I am an eternal unborn Soul

the Lord of Beings

relying on my own materiality

I enter into phenomenal being

by my own mysterious power (maya).

Whenever righteousness declines

and wickedness erupts

I send myself forth, o Bharata

To protect the good and destroy the evil doers

and establish the Right,

I come into being age after age."

 

I think this was probably the birth place or the seed of the "10 Avatars of Vishnu". Historically if you track the evolution of the avatars they are a very fascinating development.

 

Krsna Vasudeva was the god of the Satvata clan. In earlier epics he was a warrior chieftain-yet much more than human.

 

The Satvata tribe did not read sanskrit until after 400 BC. Some military action upped their caste to ksatriya. However for a couple hundred years they were not particularly impressed with Vedic ritual or sacrifice. Nor so concerned with the Upanishads. It was a monotheist religion.

 

Krsna Vasudeva was the one & only god from their perspective and they made no effort to compare His Greatness or Omnipotence against the Brahman of the Upanishads. It was assumed Krsna Vasudeva was greater.

 

I think the 10 avatars of Vishnu (of which Krishna, Rama, Buddha & Kalki are said to be among) more than likely originated with the marriage of Brahman & Satvata tradition. As they grew in power they allied with and converted some of the brahmans and the Bhagavadgita was formed and immediately incorporated into the Mahabharata which names 7 of the 10 avatars of Vishnu.

 

The author of the Bhagavad Gita subtly links Krsna in the heavenly form to Visnu and about 150 BC Pantajali linked Ksna in Visnu in Mahabhashya.

 

If Krsna was linked with Vsnu the sect would become orthodox to other Hindus. The brahmans were the deciding factor. If Krsna under another name could be shown to be in the Vedas then it would be a Vedic religion, and the Brahmans could then serve the sect as priests, and other citizens could adhere. Thus it would be a revealed religion and could be accepted as smrtis.

 

The whole process took about 500 years!

 

[This message has been edited by Dharma (edited 07-29-2002).]

[Guest guest]

Yes, why can't Krsna BE HERE NOW? After all, He's God... and one of the definitions of God is that He can do ANYTHING at ANYTIME. That means being FULLY INCARNATED right here, right now... in June of 2003 on the Planet earth!

 

Why would He have to follow the Veda's (incarnate only in such and such yugas at such and such time...). Indeed, He WROTE the Vedas, but is not BOUND by them!

 

You mentioned something about His 'dark side'. Very interresting... and I would have to say, very correct! Krsna is EVERYTHING, so why wouldn't he be the 'dark side' as well?

 

Would Krsna want to keep His incarnation a 'secret'? Well, maybe. Don't WE like some privacy once in a while? Why not God?

 

Got to go.... jaya Radharani!

[I_love_krishna_]

He can do anything, but he acts with the rules set by him.

 

Why?

 

More fun for him! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Well, even he says it, in bhagavath gita, when he says that He does not have to be in front of arjuna, he does not have to do anything for his creation. He is above everything , but still he does it. why ? because he is following Dharma.

 

Its like eating baby food, when you are feeding a baby food, you kind of seem to eat it, to show the baby that it is good. So that you make the baby eat.

 

Its the same scenario here, except it is on a higher level.

[Guest guest]

i keep my faith in the descriptions of krsna by srila prabhupada... your historic researchers have not done for humanity a 0.00000000001% of srila prabhupada , they are constantly searchin for something new to obtain fame, and they are subject to change their theories like all the materialistic scholars

 

they are treating as madmen something like 1,000,000,000 hinduist pople all over the world

 

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

that it was Krishna who wrote the Shakespearean plays. How could it have been anyone but Krishna?