leyh Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 In his Purport to Srimad-Bhagavatam4.14.32, Srila Prabhupada wrote: "One should not at any time tolerate blasphemy and insults against Lord Visnu or His devotees. A devotee is generally very humble and meek, and he is reluctant to pick a quarrel with anyone. Nor does he envy anyone. However, a pure devotee immediately becomes fiery with anger when he sees that Lord Vishnu or His devotees is insulted. This is the duty of a devotee. Although a devotee maintains an attitude of meekness and gentleness, it is a great fault on his part if he remains silent when the Lord or His devotee is blasphemed." I don't know whether anyone here has ever experienced this,but at some point or other,I have met people who have made what at best can be considered irreverent (and at worse,rude)remarks about Krsna or my worship of Krsna.There were times when I have gotten really angry about these remarks and there were times when I quietly decide to let go and afterwards wonder whether I should have gotten angry or not. At what point should we "become fiery with anger"? Should we instantly explode upon hearing someone jokingly call Krsna "that blue god" or if people make snide remarks about Krsna's stealing of the gopis' clothes? What if someone says: "There is no God.Its all make-believe."? Should we be angry immediately? I'm sure many people who take cheap shots at Krsna are just naive and simply exploding with fury in their face might not exactly be good PR for Krsna Consciousness... I guess that kind of anger Srila Prabhupada was referring to cannot even be planned.Its just a spontaneous emotion that one feels upon hearing blasphemy of the Lord and/or His devotees.The fact that I am wondering when to be angry is ample evidence that I am still far from being a devotee --- a servant of God who cannot bear to hear his Master or his Master's friends being insulted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajoy Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 for example take Lord Jesus Christ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 As long as one isn't absolutely pure, there is the danger of one coming under the influence of his anger. It is best in all situations to just control the anger and not associate with evil minded people who would want to criticize someone's religious belief. I would only advise one to fully utilize one's anger if one saw another person who was going to be physically or mentally harmed. Even then, one should choose the best method of action for all concerned. That cannot be determined without being in the particular situation and analyzing the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted June 27, 2002 Report Share Posted June 27, 2002 Originally posted by jndas: As long as one isn't absolutely pure, there is the danger of one coming under the influence of his anger. This is interesting and important.It goes to self examination of ones own motives. I myself have acted angerly in situations where a devotee is being slighted.That is not wrong in and of itself.In fact it is proper.But upon reflection I find that I used the situation as a means of hiding and disquising,from myself and others, my own sub-conscious lack of willingness to follow the devotees instructions.On some level I am tormented by this conflict and that oppurtunity to blast someone for being an offender seems to ease the pressure a bit.Of course it really is directed towards my own inner contradictions. To be conscious of our own motives in the present moment is worth taking notice of I believe. The mind is a wiley and tricky creature.We must stalk it relentlessly until its tamed. Hare Krsna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 There are several "bona fide" ways to deal with anger and insults: kill the offender (a bit extreme), philosophically conquer the offender (that is, if you're smart enough to do it), or walk away from the offender (the method I usually adopt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 We are ourselves all offenders to varying degrees. Some of us comit offenses directly to God knowingly, others inadvertantly, or due to material attachements. Ultimately we are just another category of offender. Only one who is not an offender is really qualified to punish an offender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharani Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 maybe labeling without attachment would be a good method? (for example, labeling some behavior as ignorance, but without condemnation of the person or judgement?) many of us are still learning . . . also finding humor can be good. so, the guy's calling krsna, 'that blue god'. so what? the person's attitude when they are speaking only shows where they are spiritually, it is no reason to condemn or get angry, right? if they are doing anything other than purely ignoring krsna and various things about krsna, then it may only be a latent interest, that they are hindered from expressing in a more direct way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharani Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 also, there is more than one way to be fiery with anger . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahak Posted June 28, 2002 Report Share Posted June 28, 2002 Anger is like the blood/death angels of passover. They hover outside, begging to be let in. Keep these guys outside, and all is well. If one remembers actual wording of shastra, nowhere is there an instruction to control anger. Once it hits, it consumes. Shastra states that spiritual life depends on controlling ACTIONS of anger. Anger is uncontrollable, but self is greater than intelligence, intelligence controls the mind and the mind controls the senses, in a healthy condition. Actions of anger are controlled by intelligence, and the devotees should be knowledgeable enough to recognize when it is time to practice the restraint of Sri Chaitanya's siksastakam. Anger is directed against one we profess to be less than, deserving of all respect without expectation of their respect in return. So, when anger consumes us, inevitably, we control by chanting Hare Krsna. This is the control mechanism against anger turning into actions of anger, the former being as karmically harmless as war, bad weather, and disease, the latter being as karmically as dangerous as murder, mahem, and all these other biproducts of actions of anger. Semantics? Yubetcha. If anger is not against the law, but actions of anger are, the sin cannot be mis-stated. Its like many christians say money is the root of all evil, yet this is a lie, the statement is accurately stated "love of money is the root of all evil". Careful reading is so important in our studies, without scrutiny and carefulness, our quest may be spoiled. hare krsna, mahaksadasa ps anger is only possible if one is dwelling on the past, which is a dead corpse. Anger in the present is called negotiation, dialogue, arena sports. Anger of the future is better termed bigotry and prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharani Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 i'd like to be able to follow my advice more often; chanting seems like ignoring the problem (whatever is causing the anger). . . maybe chanting is a way of tending to it instead, like tending a growing plant, instead of ripping it out of the ground? But I feel like people would rather have a true response, than one which may feel condescending to the more sensitive. [This message has been edited by radharani (edited 06-29-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 Always. Whenever we''re cheated. Whenever we cheat ourselves. 4 me that spells 24/7. Burn Baby Burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted June 29, 2002 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 In Krsna Consciousness,control of anger means to dovetail anger into the service of the Lord. When a pure devotee of the Lord exhibits anger,it is not out of false ego.Rather his/her anger is an expression of pure love of God.One example of this would be Jesus getting pissed off that when he found his father's house being converted into a gambling place and market. In Sutra 65 of Narada Bhakti Sutras,Narada Muni recommends that we dedicate our desire,anger and pride to the Supreme Lord.Spontaneous anger exhibited by a pure devotee is anger dovetailed into service of God and as such it is anger on the spiritual platform,which cannot be compared to the egoistic fury and frustration of those situated on the material platform. [This message has been edited by leyh (edited 06-29-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarasvati Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 "Krishna, that blue God". well, at least they are chanting Krishna's name, and that's a good thing. Besides, Krishna is blue and He is God. so there is ultimately no offence - Mother Sarasvati seems to be turning their offences into glorification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharani Posted June 29, 2002 Report Share Posted June 29, 2002 "One example of this would be Jesus getting pissed off that when he found his father's house being converted into a gambling place and market." ------ Each person's body is a temple (in my view)and it makes me *just as mad* to see them all polluting their own temples (with meat, alcohol, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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