Increasing human population in kali yuga- a paradox ?

[vsdprasad]

We see so much increase in the human population that even living has become a difficulty/challenge. The basic property of kaliyuga is increase of tamo guna i.e mode of ignorance. This shud make humans in this mode of ignorance go into lower planets/species of life in their next births. But why there is so much increase in the human population? Does this mean that those belonging to lower species (among the 84 lac species of life) are rising in their modes of nature & coming to human form OR shud we mean that lord krishna is giving humans a chance to come out of these material modes and get self realisation ?

In previous yugas people were in higher modes of nature and hence there shud be more humans in previous yugas compared to kali yuga.

 

-Prasad.

 

 

 

[karthik_v]

Dear Prasadji,

 

I think Shvu has made some valid observations. Even in the previous ages, people have struggled to overcome their bondage to wealth, envy, sexual attraction and fame. The same now. I think that the population increases exponentially after it crosses a threshold. For example, till the 17th century, India's population was [guesstimated at] a mere 50 million. Now that has increased 20 times.

 

I do believe that all our puranas have a divine origin and a certain element of truth and historicity to them. But, to accept every word written therein is incorrect. All of them have seen liberal interpolations. Many of them have been mixed with silly psuedo-science and myths. We would do better to seperate them.

 

Don't you think Kaikeyi was quite jealous and scheming too. Don't you think that Dasarath was attracted to Kaikeyi on sexual grounds? We can just wish away everything and say that they were all enacting a pastime, but that would just remain a wish.

[shvu]

 

Also note that this time cycle concept of rotating Yugas ending with a bad kali-yuga, etc are *not* found in the Vedas. They are found only in Smriti, which should be suspicious for anyone.

 

Such a belief does not help people in any way and only develops a negative attitude towards life. Perhaps I am being wrong, but I fail to see any advantage in blaming bad incidents on Kali-yuga. In India, one will come across many people who have the habit of doing this.

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Everything is same...rivers,mountains,trees but our hearts have been changed mainly due to materialism.We are trying to get more than we deserve so there is pain,depression,etc.In the state of UP population is 180 millions but there are only 2 mental institutions.In rich countries like USA there are mental hospitals practically in every village.See what's happening.This we call advancement.Indians are in difficulty...trapped between spiritualism and sense gratification.Also we are misusing our free will.That's why there is prahlya or destruction from time to time and mother Earth is relieved of her burden and then there is a new start.

[karthik_v]

Originally posted by shvu:

Also note that this time cycle concept of rotating Yugas ending with a bad kali-yuga, etc are *not* found in the Vedas. They are found only in Smriti, which should be suspicious for anyone.

 

Such a belief does not help people in any way and only develops a negative attitude towards life. Perhaps I am being wrong, but I fail to see any advantage in blaming bad incidents on Kali-yuga. In India, one will come across many people who have the habit of doing this.

 

 

Shvu, I would say that the concept cyclical time is atleast implied in the creation hymns of Rk veda. But, I agree with you that it cannot be stretched beyond limit, as done in smritis, and lead towards fatalistic stances.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

All of the Puranas and Itihasas revolve around the theme of cyclical ages, where different qualities manifest in different ages. There are even different methods of self-realization prescribed for the different ages based on the qualification of the inhabitants. Within these different ages, there are sub waves of the other yugas. This is a concept you will find explained nicely in the writings of Sri Aurobindo. It is based on this that Aurobindo predicts the coming of a Golden Age within the Kali Yuga.

 

If we even look at the last five thousand years of history, or even the last 20 years, we will clearly see there has been rapid degradation in society, both morally and spiritually. Just see the types of things that are shown on Television today compared to 20 years ago. Compare the habits of the teens of today with those of teens from previous decades. Degradation of culture and society is a fact.

 

If we extend our vision farther, then the same pattern emerges, but on a larger scale.

 

 

[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-16-2002).]

[karthik_v]

This is a concept you will find explained nicely in the writings of Sri Aurobindo.

 

Very true. Sri Aurobindo also talks of cyclical time that envelopes the human cicilization. The only difference being that he doesn't insist that Satya yuga is all perfect because every inhabitant had only sattvic guna. He says that Satya yuga was better because the sages were more closely connected with nature and hence inquiring into the absolute. He does allow for evolution of consciousness in the society. Not that the puranas don't.

[shvu]

 

With due respect, the Kali-yuga stuff is just a lot of bunk. People were the same always and will remain the same. They will neither deteriorate nor improve with time. For instance, the Raamaayana and the Mahaabhaaratha are full of envy, greed, anger, pain and misery. And they were not of Kali-yuga. So why did they suffer?

 

The bad, bad Kali-yuga concept was foisted on the Indians by the religious books so people would *know* and have a reason/justification for why life is painful. It has it's roots in the fatalistic "What can we do? This is our fate and we have to suffer..." mentality of Indians.

 

I suggest not mixing real life with such fancy stories for it only leads to confusion and is not worth anyone's time.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Kali Yuga I think might very well just be an absolute certainty. The question revolves around population and Kali Yuga and I think this may be the very key to the degradation of human society as a whole.

 

That is, today there are 6 billion people on the planet. In 100 years, the number will probably be closer to 20 billion. We will not have 20 billion well educated, well fed, properly housed people with good medicine etc.... True a few countries of the world will be very wealthy, but China, India, Africa, much of South America will be in very bad shape environmentally. For instance I have heard that India is having a wood shortage because with 1 billion people, and the need for cremation etc... a lot of wood is being depleted.

 

Around the world we will see deforestation, famines, wars (more people, closer together just is not a formula for peace).

 

In addition, I think there is a correlation between wealth and IQ in a relative sense. That is wealthier people are likely to have higher IQs. I also think there is a correlation between wealth and the number of children people have (in a relative sense). The wealthier you are, the fewer children you have. The poorer you are the more (relatively). In poorer countries having lots of children is a source of wealth, or investment for older years. So you will see just an exponential growth in poverty, disease, war, famine, etc....

 

I just don't see how this can be avoided on a global scale.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

In poorer countries having lots of children is a source of wealth, or investment for older years.

Thats a very interesting point. Poverty itself leads to overpopulation, which leads to further poverty.

 

[Gauracandra]

In some respects it is a Malthusian view of the future of the world. I'm not of the opinion that the earth lacks the capability to support far more people than it currently does. The U.S. for instance produces tons and tons of surplus food, and feeds the world market.

 

But with that said, the reason this works is because of a system of government, ethics, legal systems, capitalism etc... I just don't see the rest of the world being able to replicate this quick enough to overcome their spiralling populations.

 

Poverty will breed poverty, and the poor shall inherit the earth.

[theist]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Poverty will breed poverty, and the poor shall inherit the earth.

Or learn to devour each other.

 

What?Me a pessimist?

 

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

A general request to all:

 

Please do not post links that some may find as offensive or repulsive.

 

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[This message has been edited by jndas (edited 07-18-2002).]