Monotheism vs Polytheism: Islam vs Hinduism

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna and dandavat pranam

 

 

Let me simply state: Allah is the only eternal one. Everything else is not eternal, in that it can be destroyed or stopped.

 

 

 

I am slightly confused; for i thought that this was what the muslims hold to be true. Since Allah is the only Eternal One, and material world is not eternal how are paradise or hell eternal for this sounds somewhat contradictory. Actually, the words of God are a great mystery and no normal human can understand them. They come from the transcendental realm of Allah; we think that they belong to this realm or we can understand them but the fact is that the two realms have nothing in common. Maybe eternal for hell means much longer periods of time compared to our life on earth.

Anyway, if you do not know a clear-cut answer leave it; just a minor point.

 

 

And this idea about poor people going to hell by default, it’s not true. If a poor person praises Allah regularly, shapes his life around the Quran, then he will also go to heaven. Just as if a rich person sinned, then he would go to hell. All Muslims are equal in Islam, whether rich or poor, black or white, Easterner or Westerner etc. The billions who were born before Mohammad and Jesus, will be judged according to their deeds. Just because you do not have a prophet preaching the word of God, that does not necessarily mean that you still cannot do good, does it?

 

 

 

No no you misunderstand me, it has nothing to do with being poor or rich; i was just giving an example that consider some section of people who did not even get a chance to know about God then what would become of them. Indeed, by your response we are coming to the crux of the matter.

 

 

"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind."

"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity"

 

This means that all suicide bombings, hostages, killing of innocents are strictly forbidden. Although some Muslims do this in the Middle East, let me remind you, if you want to learn about Islam read the Quran, not the actions of the few renegade minority.

 

 

 

thanks. Please do not worry about the latter part; this forum is quite extraordinary with many wonderful devotees. In fact you will find so many devotees who are so much closer to the spirit of Islam than you can imagine, who know the true meaning of Islam and whose analysis of the world events is exacting and free from tinge of bias.

 

 

I was merely stating that this Muslim, so-called, I do not believe him to be one, since a Muslims is: one who believes in the Almighty Allah, the one, the eternal, and that Mohammad (peace be upon him) is Allah’s messenger.

 

 

 

Dear friend, even though you think differently Srila Haridasa Thakura is a true believer in Allah and Paigambar Muhammad as Allah's messenger so is a Muslim and what an exalted Muslim... We have no hesitation in calling ourselves as following Islam for our aim is submission to Allah and we consider Muhammad as a Spiritual Master meaning empowered representative of God; just as we have no hesitation in calling ourselves christians for we consider Jesus as Spiritual Master (but this does not hold for Buddhism/Advaitism/... etc). Srimad-Bhagavatam directs us 11.8.10 "An intelligent man should from the smallest as well as the biggest religious scriptures take the essence, just like a honey bee does with all the flowers big and small"; it gives that essence as "that religion is first-class which makes one a lover of God" and this is the sum and substance of religion; unless you mean muslim as in groupism, which then is not religion rather religiosity. Sri Gauranga takes the essence from Quran and explains it in the following way:

 

Lahiri: According to your ideology, what is meant by mukti?

 

The Kazi replied: What you refer to as the jiva, individual soul, we call ruh. This ruh is found in two conditions: ruh-mujarrad, the conscious or liberated soul; and ruh-tarkibi, the conditioned soul. What you refer to as spirit (cit) we call mujarrad, and what you refer to as matter (acit) we call jism. Mujarrad is beyond the limitations of time and space, whereas jism is subordinate to time and space. The ruh-tarkibi, or baddha-jiva, has a material mind and is full of ignorance (malphut) and desires. The ruh-mujarrad are pure and aloof from all these contaminations, and they reside in the spiritual abode, which is known as alam al-mashal. The ruh becomes pure through the gradual development of ishq or prema. There is no influence of jism, or matter, in that abode where Khoda (God) brought the prophet Paigambar Sahib. Yet even there, the ruh remains as a servitor (banda), and the Lord is the master. Therefore the relationship between the banda and Khoda is eternal, and mukti is actually the attainment of this relationship in its pure form. The Quran and other literature explain these conclusions, but not everyone can understand them.

 

Lahiri: What is the primary teaching of the Quran?

 

Kazi: According to the Quran, the Lord's personal abode, which is the highest attainment in the spiritual world, is known as behesht. It is a fact that there is no formal worship there, yet life itself is worship (ibada). The residents of that abode are immersed in transcendental bliss simply by seeing the Lord. This is the very same teaching that has been presented by Sri Gaurangadeva.

 

Lahiri: Does the Quran accept that the Lord has a transcendental form?

 

Kazi: The Quran states that the Lord has no form. But Sri Gaurangadeva told Chand Kazi that this teaching of the Quran means that the Lord cannot have a material form. It does not preclude the existence of His pure spiritual form. Paigambar Sahib saw the divine loving form of the Lord in accordance with his eligibility. The transcendental moods and sentiments that are characteristic of the other rasas remained hidden from him.

 

 

 

There are other transcendental relations like friend, son etc. while that of Paigambar Mohammad was that of a servitor.

 

But why take my word or words of any/all muslims; we may all be wrong. More often than not our judgements are far from perfect. If your opinion turns out to be wrong then it would be a great offense at the feet of Allah who does not tolerate innappropriate words for His dear devotees. Allah is seated in our hearts closer to us than even the jugular vein, isn't it; so my sincere request to you would be to pray to Allah with deepest feelings and humility to let you know the correct situation as regards Srila Haridasa Thakura and other devotees. How can He ignore a sincere prayer; He works in mysterious ways to help us. But His mercy can only be held in the cup of our humility, greater our cup greater will be His mercy; just an advise from a well-wishing friend.

[Guest guest]

My dear friends, I thank you all for the wonderful debate we have had.

 

I do this because no longer will I be able to post at this forum. I am just starting a really busy period of my life, and so please forgive me for not continuing our discussions.

 

May Allah have mercy on our souls.

[Guest guest]

For your engagement in Theological debate. Here's hoping we all may have learned something from each other to help us advance our understanding of Gods ways.

 

Yes we recognize all the teachers you mention as contributing some enlightenment to the suffering animation.

 

All glories to all of them and to all those sincerely trying to unite their will to that of the Lord.

may he mercifully assist in their efforts.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

”The Bhagavad Gita explains why there is suffering in the world.”

 

Why on earth should I listen to his explanation. I don’t even know who he is. Where does he get his authority and knowledge from?

 

 

Why on Earth should we accept some book called quran written by some warring leader and claiming it to be a word of some god.

[Guest guest]

my dear friend. how culd you compare the two facts together? i mean about god and angels.

you said muslims believe that there are many angels.. its a fact.

now let me ask you something seroisly .. how is it related to polytheism.

being a monothiest is all about believing in one god.

you think that having 33000 gods to pray makes you hindu great ?

take this in a broad sense, think not as a hindu or a muslim or any other religious person... let me ask you a simple question..

if there are 10 of us assembled togwether in a room to decide about something, do you think that all of us will have the same opinion, inspite the fact that we are all equal in power and will.

now think about your gods... 33000 of them.....

if one wants the world to rotate in one direction the other might like it in the other way.. then?????

who's the final one to decide the way??????

thinkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Guest guest]

Hinduism believes in one God. One God only. That God has taken many different forms and come down to Earth for his devotees, (unlike some other Gods i know who send mere messengers, thanx). Different sects of Hinduism worship different forms of the same God who has incarnated many times.

[Guest guest]

How come you know the exact number of deities?? There may be more!

If you are thinking that hindus consider all these gods as supreme then you are wrong in your ideas about hinduism.

hinduism is more than a religion.it is a way of life.hence it is divergent according to beliefs of the people who live in that culture.

 

by the way islam is NOT a perfect religion at all!

[Avinash]

if one wants the world to rotate in one direction the other might like it in the other way.. then?????

who's the final one to decide the way??????

 

This problem will arise if there are 33000 supremes. But, there is only one supreme.

[krsna]

 

 

 

 

Q1 Christian: Jesus is the only way, so surrender to him now.

 

A1

Hindu:

 

This statement simply shows your lack of knowledge on other religions, especially the Vedic religion (Hinduism), which existed for millions of years before Jesus. Before 2000 years ago, there was no Jesus, no Christianity.

 

 

 

Do you seriously think that the millions of people, who lived before Jesus, lived in ignorance and went to hell, as they did not follow Jesus, as he did not exist?

 

 

 

Those who think that ‘Jesus is the only way’ fail to realize that it’s God who creates the Christians and it’s the same God who creates the non-Christians too, at his will. It’s God’s will that non-Christians are created, thus how can Jesus be the only way?

 

 

 

God incarnates himself or empowers man to preach according to time, place, circumstances and the audience.

 

 

 

Jesus was empowered to preach to the people in the Middle East 2000 years ago, his audiences were the less educated and degraded souls. They were engaged in killing (human and animal), adultery, and had no respect for the father and mother. Thus Jesus preached ‘Thy shall not kill’, ‘Thy shall not commit adultery’, ‘Thy shall honor the mother and father’.

 

 

 

Muhammad was empowered to preach to the pre-Islamic Arabs, who were very degraded. They were engaged in animal slaughter, tribal wars, and worship of animal and human images. Muhammad preached that animals could only be killed and eaten if done so in the name of God, halal meat. Forbid worship of images so that there is no chance of worshipping unauthorized images. Allowed a man to have 4 wives so that all the widows who were created by the tribal wars would have a home and husband.

 

 

 

Buddha was an incarnation of Lord Krishna, his audiences were engaged in animal slaughter and didn’t believe in a God that they could not see. So Buddha said, you see me, so follow me. Buddha preached the law of karma, reincarnation, and non-violence. He thus stopped animal slaughter.

 

 

 

5000 years ago, most people in the World were righteous and followed the principles of the Vedic religion, the only religion in the world at that time. However, a number of atheists were threatening righteousness. At that time, God took birth in the form of a human being, Lord Krishna. Lord Krishna clearly proved that he was God in the human form. He killed all the atheists who tormented and harassed people and thus saved mankind.

 

Q2

Muslim:

 

Allah is the only God, and Mohammad is his prophet, surrender onto Islam now. Islam is the only way.

 

A2 Hindu:

 

This again simply shows your lack of knowledge on other religions and is a contradictory statement. Islam actually preaches that Jesus was a prophet and thus to say that Mohammad is the only prophet of God or that Islam is the only way is incorrect according to your own religion. Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet of God and thus the teachings of the Bible (Christianity). Thus according to Islam, it’s not the only way.

 

 

 

Also, do you seriously think that the millions of people who lived before Mohammad and Islam, before 1400 years ago. Lived in total ignorance and went to hell as they did not follow Islam, as it did not exist?

 

 

 

It’s Allah who creates the Muslims at his will and he also creates the non-Muslims at his will too. The minority of Muslims who are waging a jihad against the non-Muslims should realize that the non-Muslims are simply following a religion given to them by Allah.

 

 

 

God is not Muslim, nor Christian, nor Hindu. God is simply God. The Muslims and non-Muslims are all created by the same God, at his own will.

 

 

 

The forefathers of all humans including the Muslims were followers of the Vedic religion for millions of years, it is foolish to think that our forefathers lived in ignorance and went to hell as they did not follow the religions, which did not exist in their time (Islam, Christianity, Judaism).

 

Q3

Christian: Do Hindus believe in many Gods?

 

A3

Yes, unfortunately the Hindus follow many gods, but the Vedic scriptures clearly state that there is only one God, Lord Krishna, also known as Lord Vishnu. Most Hindus do not worship God. Some worship the demi-gods (godly beings but not God), and some worship Gurus as Gods. The worship of demi-gods and Gurus as God is a great sin according to the Vedic scriptures like the Bhagavad-Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam, but most Hindus ignore this.

 

 

 

The Muslims, Christians, and other non-Hindus are basically the descendants of Vedic forefathers. This is a fact as until 5000 years ago, there was only one religion in the whole world, the Vedic religion. Thus the forefathers of all humans were followers of the Vedic religion. India, known as Bharat Varsha in the scriptures is the oldest country, the oldest civilization, the Vedic scriptures are the oldest known to man, and the Vedic religion is oldest in the world. These facts are documented in the Vedic scriptures and accepted by many scholars and historians

 

“Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually, worship only me, o son of Kunti, but they do so in a wrong way. I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize my true transcendental nature fall down.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.23)

 

This is known as Kali Yuga, the age of ignorance and irreligion, which started 5000 years ago. This is the only age in which there is more than one religion. In the other ages (satya yuga, tetra yuga, dvarpa yuga), the Vedic religion is the only one. In this age, irreligion and ignorance will only increase. Those who take-up Krishna consciousnesses are very fortunate, as they will be liberated from material existence at the end of this life. The others will come back life after life and keep circulating in the 8.4 Million different bodies.

 

 

 

The Bhagavad-Gita is the main scripture of Hinduism. In the Bhagavad-Gita, Lord Krishna proved and clearly stated that he is the only God and only he should be worshipped.

 

 

 

Here are some verses from the Bhagavad-Gita:

 

“Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both its and origin and dissolution. O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no truth superior to me. Everything rests upon me, as the pearls are strung on a thread” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 7.6-7)

 

“It should be understood that all species of life, o son of kunti, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed giving father.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 14.4)

 

“The whole cosmic order is under me. By my will it is manifested again and again, and by my will it is annihilated at the end.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.8)

 

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in my devotional service and worship me with all their hearts.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8)

 

“Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being, moving or unmoving, that can exist without me.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.39)

 

Lord Krishna is the only living being who declared himself and proved that he was God.

 

Q4

Muslim: Why Hindus worship idols?

 

A4

Hindu:

 

Idol worship is forbidden in Hinduism. Hindus do not worship idols but deities. There is a difference between idols and deities, deity worship is authorized, and idol worship is not authorized. There are certain scriptural austerities that need to be followed before a statue of God, Lord Krishna, can be made into a deity and worshipped. Only deities of Lord Krishna and his incarnations are authorized for worship, but most Hindus do not follow the scriptural injunctions and concoct their own beliefs. Many Hindus worship unauthorized images. That’s why this is Kali Yuga, the age of ignorance and irreligion, which started 5000 years ago.

 

 

 

To the non-Hindus the deities are just images, as they do not have the spiritual eyes or qualities to realize that God is everywhere. Many Christians also believe that God is everywhere, so if God is everywhere then why is he not in the deities?

 

 

 

According to the Vedic scriptures, deity worship is only for those who do not kill, the vegetarians. Those who kill (the meat eaters) are forbidden to worship deities, as they are too sinful due to killing. The Bible and Koran forbid their followers from worshipping images, as they are killers (meat eaters).

 

 

 

Although the Christians and Muslims say they do not worship idols, they actually do. The Christians worship the cross, which is an idol. The holiest shrine for the Muslims is the Kebba. What is there? A black stone, an idol. The Muslims worship the stone and revere it as holy.

 

 

[Guest guest]

.Levels of God realization

By Srila Sridhara Maharaj

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:4zRyrIQ6J1QJ:www.vaisnava.com/photoseries/ssm01/10.jpg

 

 

Disciple: When the vaisnava is asked, “Why are there so many different religions, theistic religions, such as worship of Allah, Christ, Rama, Krishna etc. so many under the banner of theism. How should we answer this?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: According to the different degrees of theistic receiving capacity, there are different groups. Gradation must be there in worshipping so many different demigods who are in a position of some power in nature. For the satisfaction of lusty desires one goes to Kali. For one who wants renunciation or knowledge he goes to Siva. Siva is performing yoga. Also indifference to these many qualifications is concentrated in Siva, penance is also in him. So many go to worship Siva and those who want mukti, liberation, they go to Vishnu, Narayana. According to their choice, their inner necessity, all are wandering in different stages of misunderstanding and they select a leader. One who wants to be a good actor will go to a famous dramatist, but for those who are searching for real theistic life there are also departments. Christianity, Islam etc. those religious philosophies that accept an eternal God, eternal master, but according to their different nature. Just as there are ksatriya, brahman, vaisya or sudra natures, plus different natures in different nations, according to their capacity as a group, their conception of theism has been distributed to them. But if you offer wholesale theism to them, it will be too complex for most, they have limited capacity. So only installments have been given, not full detail. Then after many births they will come to a higher position and higher education will be imparted to them about full fledged theism. Everywhere this policy has been arranged and accepted. According to their capacity, the degree of education should be imparted, extended to them. Otherwise, they won’t be able to understand anything. Progress does not come abruptly, continuous development is to be administered.

Once during Akbha’s time, that great Moghul emperor. He was very liberal and open to all the religious sections, once there was a showing of all the Hindu gods, and he was asking what is what, what are their lilas and their stories, and when he came to Krsna in Vrndavan, his conclusion was “Oh this God is the highest of them all.” That was Akbah’s remark. "Because he has no worries of any management, he is completely free enjoying his life, playing the flute, no worries, the highest conception you have here, so to get his company that will be very much affective." To play without anxiety, and this exhibition was an example of choosing between so many comparative conceptions that are shown for us to taste.

Once an older vairagi woman in red cloth came to visit me here, a follower of Siva shakti. I asked her “What do you want after death, do you want that Kali, to be her maid-servant, or Siva, or do you want to be in the group of those 4-handed Narayan servitors, or do you want to become a gopi or cowboy and wander with Krsna or Nanda-Yasoda? She told, “if I have a choice, I really want to be in Vrndavan, not in Vaikuntha, nor to be one of Siva’s servants or the female mates of Kali- drinking blood, such things are horrible.” I told , “Yes It is a peaceful life in Vrndavan after death, so why do you follow any other path?” Consider what is suitable, a plain, peaceful and beautiful life. The choice and chance is given to us, to see where our taste is and come forward accordingly for your future ambition. What do you want, what appeals to your inner-most heart?

Disciple: The Christians say the only master is Christ himself.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: The fully fledged is to be found in the Upanishad. Everything has got its central position, i.e. gold or diamonds, industry or religion, everything may not be found in every place. So in theism, India was selected to give the highest position in the world by God. It is not unreasonable. The University cannot be established in every village, some place must be selected for a particular hospital or educational institution or police station. So in this whole world, some place was selected to give the highest seat of religion and that came to the lap of India. We have to understand, we shouldn’t be envious. So the highest school for theistic education should be located somewhere on this globe and that place selected was India. The German philosopher Max Mueller saw it like that stating, “In the Upanishad, what is found there can fully feed all religious seekers and still the water from that fountain is springing eternally. The fountain will not dry up.”

An Open Heart and Mind

When Christ was born in the Middle East why should Americans take his instruction, if it is not given within their own country? So this geographical distance is all maya, illusion. Wherever the real thing is to be found, we must be open to that, in its own intrinsic value and not by physical or mundane affinity such as I am this body and this is my country. We should rise above all this material consciousness with complete openness. We shall inquire after the truth from wherever it comes. The atom bomb was first developed in one country but others didn’t refrain from trying to get that knowledge because it came from another country. No, wherever one finds the truth, we must try to acquire it from that source.

Disciple: The problem I find with so-called Christians at times, is that they can appreciate the higher conception of bhakti, surrender, even above mukti, liberation, but they are afraid to go beyond what Christ has said, and therefore cannot progress beyond the information he has given.

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: But surrender for what, to what? Surrender for love of one’s country? We see so many surrendering their lives for their country, but is that the highest surrender? So what is the conception of God? There are many hazy conceptions of God, but we must come to a clear conception. In biology, the very minute study of the differences of all the germs and viruses, etc. will be understood with closer inspection. So a closer inspection will reveal who God is. God means what? An unknown and unknowable mystery? No definite concept? Attachment to a fixed and limited concept is a common thing but not progressive.

Disciple: But the Christians state that Jesus Christ says, “I am the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the father except through me,.”

Srila Sridhara Maharaj: Some accept the Bible, some accept the Koran, some may accept Bhagavad Gita, but when there is a comparison to be drawn, one must come out of their local bigotry, into the broad light under the sky. They will have to compare and reject and accept, it is everywhere. Every nation boasts, “We are the first class power,” but when there is hate and war and all are on the battlefield, then it is decided who is who. Russia says, “I have got power to control the whole world.” At the beginning of the second great war, the Emperor of Japan said, “We are prepared for one hundred years at war. The Europeans will fight to the finish, and I will be the emperor of the whole world.” But what you think is one thing and reality another, and history now tells something else. So with an open mind we are to go through and make a comparative study of all teachings. In the course of that we will find that the Indian religious writers in a space and time have covered such avast span and most ancient it is. In the Bible it is said that the world was created some thousands of years ago, a very naive concept. But Indian theology says that there has been so many dissolution’s and evolution’s, solar systems dissolved and again they have sprung up. Both geographically and historically, what has been given in the Indian theological books, these other theologies cannot come into comparison. It also struck me, that beyond this body they can also gather knowledge. Such graphic and spacious findings have been delivered and distributed by the propagators of the Aryan scriptures. That always attracted me. That is the most spacious of all the religious conceptions.

Mahaprabhu and Nityananda Prabhu have come to invite and accept one and all with such a generous and all accommodating attempt. Still at the same time, if we feel they want to take us to the highest stage of life then we shall have to consider Their process, and follow step by step, to reach that supreme destination.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am not Hindu. I have read major books on all the religion. According to what I have read and according to my converstions with knowleadble peoplea, I agree that Hinduism is the religion and it is MONOTHEIST RELIGION. tHE PERSON WHO CLAIMS THAT Hinduism is polytheis is a number one foolest person that earth has produced. Hindiuam is a monotheist religion, I can prove that, but I do not taslk with fools, whoclaim hinduism in not a religion. According to the world,s historical literature, Hindism was the first only religion whcih had scriptures written.

 

Never let any claim that Hinduism is a polythiest religion, immediately ignore that fool claiming that. There is only one God in Hindism but there are many other forms in that religion.

 

Now cow, monkeys and all those talks, fools will claim that cow is scared to hindus, that is right. A highest religion in the world needs to relate humans and animals via GOD. Humans are also damn animals just like monkeys and cow. Why is yor mother sacred to you, because she gave you the life. Simailaly animals are helful to us, so they are scred to us.

 

Uncivilzed are those who kill animals and eat them, Hinduism is the religion that forbids killing og aniamals.

It is the religion whcih has never criticized others. You can see in my talk I did not criticized Islams, Christians. Because Hinduism taught me that.

 

HINDIUSM IS THE RELIGION THAT UNITES THE WORLD AS A UNIT. UNIFICation of senses, organs, species and worLd in the ALMIGHTY LORD. If you are christain, muslim etc. please never critise hinduism ot else you will necer meet Jesus, ALLAH,etc. Becase Hindiusm claimS that Allah and Jesus are same as Krishna.

[Guest guest]

That's because we DO NOT believe that angels are God. Angels are only servants of the almighty, just like human beings.

 

We do not worship anything but god. Not people, not the angels, not even Muhammad (PBUH).

 

We are Muslims who bear witness that "there is no God but God, and Muhammad is his messenger."

 

This is why we are a monotheistic religion. You cannot be a Muslim if you don't have this belief.

[Guest guest]

"especially the Vedic religion (Hinduism), which existed for millions of years before Jesus... This is a fact as until 5000 years ago, there was only one religion in the whole world, the Vedic religion."

 

That my friend is utter bull. The roots of Hinduism can be traced to around 1500 BC. That's three and a half thousand years. Hardly the millions of years you describe. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, OF HINDUISM EXISISTING FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS or before 1500 BC. Hinduism is a lie... the cause of the infamous and barbaric caste System in India

 

"Although the Christians and Muslims say they do not worship idols, they actually do. The Christians worship the cross, which is an idol. The holiest shrine for the Muslims is the Kebba."

 

Ignorance. Christians do not worship the cross. It is their symbol. The symbol of Christianity is a cross, because they say that their Messiah died on a cross. Having something for a symbol, and worshipping it are different things. Mulsims do not worship the Kebba. They pray towards its direction, because that is where the House of God on earth is.

 

Besides, Hindus cant talk about worshipping idols. If you say that having a symbol is the same as worshipping things, then you also worship all those idols you keep, even though you claim that they're just representations of deities.

 

"I am not Hindu."

 

And yet you defend the religion with great valour? So tell me, if you think it's so pissing great, which it isn't, why dont you convert?

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

 

That my friend is utter bull. The roots of Hinduism can be traced to around 1500 BC. That's three and a half thousand years. Hardly the millions of years you describe. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, OF HINDUISM EXISISTING FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS or before 1500 BC.

 

 

 

Please get your facts straight before shouting in capitals about something you do not know about. The result will only be that you will cut a sorry figure of yourself, and the devotees will ignore you due to your arrogance rooted in ignorance. To just give an example see this:

http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/129602326.cms

which tells of a 7000 year old temple. That alone shows your hypothesis to be wrong. If you want to know more then you may be interested in seeing this

 

Besides the most reliable sources for such information are the Vedic scriptures which describe the various events in great detail, and using various astronomical positions of stars etc. This alone dates Mahabharata to around 3129BC, as also many other events described in scriptures; the modern astronomical calculations match the traditionally accepted dates and back-calculation is not possible except without sophisticated instruments/computers as are available today.

 

 

the cause of the infamous and barbaric caste System in India

 

 

 

Again an assertion without any logic/evidence. You will have to show using logic why caste system is barbaric; actually on the other hand the varnashrama is most rational and natural division based on qualities designed to lead everyone to the ultimate destination without which there will be only chaos as has been going on in all parts of the world. Note that i am not talking about the misuse of a system rather the philosophy and logic behind a system.

 

 

And yet you defend the religion with great valour? So tell me, if you think it's so pissing great, which it isn't, why dont you convert?

 

 

 

You misunderstood him. The term "Hindu" does not refer to a particular religious-philosophy system, rather a group of related beliefs. It is just like the case when it would be incorrect to say that Sufis are muslims because they are born among them, because their philosophy of "I am Khoda" is highly blasphemous in the muslim theology. So the correct term to use for almost all devotees on this site would be "vaishnava".

 

 

Ignorance. Christians do not worship the cross. It is their symbol. The symbol of Christianity is a cross, because they say that their Messiah died on a cross. Having something for a symbol, and worshipping it are different things. Mulsims do not worship the Kebba. They pray towards its direction, because that is where the House of God on earth is.

 

 

 

Paying reverences to someone/something is not different from worshipping it; that is precisely the point. Worshipping the Supreme Lord as the Supreme Lord, and worshipping demigods as highly elevated associates of the Supreme Lord is different. That you cannot pay reverences to anyone except God is only dogmatism and egotism.

 

 

Besides, Hindus cant talk about worshipping idols. If you say that having a symbol is the same as worshipping things, then you also worship all those idols you keep, even though you claim that they're just representations of deities.

 

 

 

First off vaishnavas do not claim that they are just representations of Deities, but that they are Deities themselves. This subtle point is quite difficult for persons steeped in anti-myreligion ideology. I will just give some hints to try and understand it, and if you are interested in knowing more you may inquire sincerely.

 

Let us start from simple definitions. The reason idolatory is unauthorized worship is that we should not worship something that is not God. Muslims and christians worship God in their respective conceptions; hence rationally we can conclude that what muslims and christians worship is only a vague mental conception, a feeling, and not God Himself. This will be the case for all the conditioned souls because they do not have the transcendental senses to see God and even though Allah is everywhere and closer to us than the jugular vein we cannot perceive Him; consequently all they will worship will be actually material in nature for they are bound in the material realm and have no direct access to the spiritual realm. The philosophy of muslims/christians itself does not allow for worship of God, as "access" to God is only available probably after death (actually not even after death for they do not associate personally with God rather only land up in heaven etc.).

 

Contrast this with the vaishnava philosophy of avataarvaada. This lets us know that out of His mercy God descends Himself to this material world in various Forms; of course in the conditioned state we cannot see those Forms directly as God but the idea is to gradually advance to liberated state. Thus vaishnavas worship the Sri-Murtis of God (called the archa-avataar or archa-vigraha), the Holy Names of God etc. who are God Himself. When the Deities are installed in the proper authorized way then the Lord assures us that He accepts our devotional service directly in the Form of Sri Murti. Additionally vaishnavas pray to highly elevated vaishnavas (like Tulasi Maharani, Spiritual Masters, demigods) to help in their spiritual progress and attain loving devotional service to God.

 

Thus the conclusion is that without the knowledge of the perfect philosophy of avataarvaada there is no way to worship God and all forms of worship will only be idolatary. The reason why muslims/christians have been forbidden from worshipping Deities is also given in Vedic texts, which is that the pujaari conducting the worship has to have some very austere standards which were not possible for persons of those regions at that time who were deeply engrossed in irreligious acts.

[Guest guest]

 

"especially the Vedic religion (Hinduism), which existed for millions of years before Jesus... This is a fact as until 5000 years ago, there was only one religion in the whole world, the Vedic religion."

 

That my friend is utter bull. The roots of Hinduism can be traced to around 1500 BC. That's three and a half thousand years. Hardly the millions of years you describe. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, OF HINDUISM EXISISTING FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS or before 1500 BC. Hinduism is a lie... the cause of the infamous and barbaric caste System in India

 

 

 

According to computer astronomical calculations based on the star alignments mentioned in the Mahabharata, the dating of the Kuruksetra war is possible (Krishna spoke the Gita then), 5,000 years ago is the date arrived at. In the Mahabharata it is mentioned that the Sarasvati river is drying up, the central river of the Mahabharata is not the Sarasvati, the Ganga became the central holy river due to the dying of the Sarasvati. In the Vedas the Sarasvati is the center of everything, it is the life giver, it is where all the action takes place, it is praised as a wide full life giving river to the region and worshipped. It dried up completely according to geologists and other scientists at around 2000 b.c.

 

 

The Vedas have also been analyzed and dated using modern computer astronomical programs to determine the date of the vedas, many astronomical alignments are given in the Vedas. They have mixed results indicating the Vedas were written at different times, going back furthur then 20,000 years. This is well documented (see links below) but due to an anti hindu bias in the western world, the data is ignored by the scientific media outside of India. I guess they like living life in denial.

 

Both of these techniques used in dating the Vedic presence in India proves that the Vedic civilization is far far older then any other civilization.

 

The Harappan civilization was originally called the Indus Valley civilization because that was where the first cities were found. As time went on it was discovered that 90% of the cities were not near the Indus, they were in what is now the Thar Desert. Using space based technology the dry river bed of a huge river running through the center of all those Harappan cities in the desert, has been confirmed. That is the dried up Sarasvati.

 

So the Harappan civilization existed during the time of the Mahabharata, which takes place in India, the Vedas never mention any place outside of India and have been proven to pre-date the Harappan civilization, the Harappan civilization had 90% of their cities around the Sarasvati, the Sarasvati was the center of the life of the people of the Vedas.

 

Conclusion: The Harappan civilization was the Vedic civilization, they were the Aryans, they were the culture Krishna lived in.

 

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/ieindex.htm

 

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/c...storicity01.htm

 

http://www.tri-murti.com/ancientind...astronomy1.html

 

http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0301078 (PDF)

 

http://www.ece.lsu.edu/kak/akhena.pdf (PDF)

 

http://northernway.org/school/onwarticles.html#Vedic

 

http://realmagick.com/articles/94/1494.html

 

http://www.geocities.com/~ramayanam/india_history.htm

 

http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/aid/astronomy.html

 

 

"Although the Christians and Muslims say they do not worship idols, they actually do. The Christians worship the cross, which is an idol. The holiest shrine for the Muslims is the Kebba."

 

Ignorance. Christians do not worship the cross. It is their symbol. The symbol of Christianity is a cross, because they say that their Messiah died on a cross. Having something for a symbol, and worshipping it are different things. Mulsims do not worship the Kebba. They pray towards its direction, because that is where the House of God on earth is.

 

 

The ignorance is yours my fren. In fact Christians have worshipped the cross for a very long time. While most Christians do not literally worship the cross, for most of the history of Xtianity the worship of relics was all pervasive in the Xtian world. The most important ones were supposedly pieces of the "true cross". The relics were adored and treated as if they could bestow spiritual and earthly power, one of the most famous was the spear that supposedly was used on Jesus while he was crucified. Also there is the Christian tradition of worshipping statues of Mary.

 

Muslims worship at the Kaaba. The story of how that came to be is interesting. The Kaaba was what they call a "pagan" temple before Mohammed started his new religion. When Mohammed forced the Meccans to surrender to his army he kept the traditional circumnambulation of the Kaaba. That is an ancient vedic tradition still followed today. Mecca was the center of the Vedic religion in Arabia and the Kaaba was the main temple. Mohammed integrated the "pagan" ritual worship of the Kaaba into his new religion because it symbolized that his religion was authentic to the masses, who were "pagans".

 

Even today the Shivalingam is worshipped at the Kaaba. It is a cornerstone of the Kaaba, which was standard practice for Shiva temples. The pre-islamic people were mainly what's called Tsabists, which is another way of saying Shaivites.

 

As far as 1500 bce being a starting point, try this from

history of pre islamic arabia part 1

 

For all 8 parts

 

Some people wrongly believe that Arabs used the word Hindu as a term of contemptuous abuse. Nothing could be further from the truth. The people of pre-Islamic Arabia held Hinduism in great esteem as evidenced from the fact that they would endearingly call their most attractive and favourite daughters as Hinda and Saifi Hindi. The fact that Arabs regarded India as their spiritual and cultural motherland long before the damaging influence of Islam is corroborated by the following poem which mentions each one of the four Vedas by name:

 

 

"Aya muwarekal araj yushaiya noha

minar HIND-e

Wa aradakallaha

manyonaifail jikaratun"

"Oh the divine land of HIND (India)

(how) very blessed art thou!

Because thou art the chosen

of God blessed with knowledge"

"Wahalatijali Yatun ainana sahabi

akha-atun jikra Wahajayhi yonajjalur

-rasu minal HINDATUN "

"That celestial knowledge which like

four lighthouses shone in such

brilliance - through the (utterances of)

Indian sages in fourfold abundance."

"Yakuloonallaha ya ahal araf alameen

kullahum

Fattabe-u jikaratul VEDA bukkun

malam yonajjaylatun"

"God enjoins on all humans,

follow with hands down

The path the Vedas with his divine

precept lay down."

"Wahowa alamus SAMA wal YAJUR

minallahay Tanajeelan

Fa-e-noma ya akhigo mutiabay-an

Yobassheriyona jatun"

"Bursting with (Divine) knowledge

are SAM &YAJUR bestowed on creation,

Hence brothers respect and

follow the Vedas, guides to salvation"

"Wa-isa nain huma RIG ATHAR nasayhin

Ka-a-Khuwatun

Wa asant Ala-udan wabowa masha -e-ratun"

"Two others, the Rig and Athar teach us

fraternity, Sheltering under their

lustre dispels darkness till eternity"

 

 

This poem was written by Labi-Bin-E- Akhtab-Bin-E-Turfa who lived in Arabia around 1850 B.C. That was 2300 years before Mohammed!!! This verse can be found in Sair- Ul-Okul which is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It was compiled in 1742 AD under order of the Turkish Sultan Salim.

 

 

The Hindu "idol worship" is nothing more then a tool for meditation. The deity represents God, it's function is to focus the mind on a personal form. The idea is that meditating on God in the abstract is difficult for most people, the mind has nothing to focus on other then a mental abstraction. So the process of Archana, deity worship, is used to focus the mind on a form which represents God, thereby making meditation something which is easy to visualize and comprehend. This is an ancient yogic meditation technique.

 

 

 

Besides, Hindus cant talk about worshipping idols. If you say that having a symbol is the same as worshipping things, then you also worship all those idols you keep, even though you claim that they're just representations of deities.

 

 

Get over it already.

 

 

 

"I am not Hindu."

 

And yet you defend the religion with great valour? So tell me, if you think it's so pissing great, which it isn't, why dont you convert?

 

 

Saying "Hindu" is like saying Christian. It is a generalization which can imply numerous beliefs and practices which someone may not believe in. For instance Jehovahs Witnesses call themselves Christians as do Catholics. The JW's do not believe that Jesus is God, Catholics do. Christian Science has a different belief about Jesus then both of them, and Mormons have another different belief system [polytheism]. So even though you can call all four Christian, the fact is that they have radically different Beliefs.

 

Hinduism is the same way. Some people don't like being called a follower of Hinduism because it's too broad of a category. Just like Catholics don't want to be lumped in with Mormons and Jehovahs Winesses or Christian Science, many Hindus don't want to be lumped in with Advaitins, Neo-Vedantists, and other monists and impersonalists, who represent in the minds of most westerners "Hinduism".

 

So "Hinduism" is not a religion per se, it is a category of diverse religions who utilize many of the same ancient books, but who interpret them very differently. There is no religion called "Hinduism". In India the people may call themselves Hindus, but that is not to be taken as a statement of faith, it is a cultural, ethnic, and religious mileu they identify with. The actual names of the religions they follow are Vaisnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism, Advaita Vedanta, Neo-Vedanta, etc. They may all call themselves Hindus, but it is just like the diverse Christian religions who all call themselves Christian. There is no single "Christian" faith and religion, and the same goes for "Hinduism".

 

capisce?

[Guest guest]

Hinduism is old. I will admit that. However, it is definitely not the millions of years old that many describe it to be. At most, even after listening to all of you, I would say it is, at most, about 10,000 years old. Frankly, I do not believe the oldness of a religion really matters. Islam officially began at approximately 600 A.D, and yet now it is one of the largest, or maybe even the largest religion in the world with the fastest growing numbers. Christianity began at approximately 4 A.D (since the supposed death of Christ is sometimes described to have happened at that and not at 0. A.D), and it is also one of the largest religions in the world (if you take into mind that JW’s, Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans etc are all classed as Christians). However, Paganism, which technically is a religion, was practised as far back officially as 16000 BC! Now, this is evident from the fact that many paintings have been found on cave walls, and many different examples of Pre-Vedic shrines (which are all but turned to dust now. Paganism, officially, is a nature-based religion, which follows that there are many gods and goddesses etc etc. And we have also not taken into account the Ancient Egyptian religion. Many scholars and theologians do not accept this as a religion, but the fact is, even more do. Osiris and Isis were in existence for many thousands of years before B.C.

 

And, may I ask, is it not possible that the Vedic scriptures were merely changed (and added to) at a later date to authenticate their validity? What I mean is, it is said that they contain many scientific facts that were not discovered until later. Couldn’t they have been written later as well?

 

“capisce?”

 

Me scusa? Che è l'inferno che ha supposto per significare?

[sumedh]

Hare Krishna

 

 

Hinduism is old. I will admit that. However, it is definitely not the millions of years old that many describe it to be.

 

 

 

That is all right; we completely believe the authenticity of the scriptures which describe in great details the kings, their lineages, their periods of reign, etc. Due to partial devastation (such as the great flood) most of the things get lost and are resurrected by the Divine Spiritual Masters. New evidences are being found time and again of the ancient nature of Vedic period, and no one has yet dug the sea-beds yet. Since you think that this does not matter in any case, we can leave it at that.

 

 

And, may I ask, is it not possible that the Vedic scriptures were merely changed (and added to) at a later date to authenticate their validity? What I mean is, it is said that they contain many scientific facts that were not discovered until later. Couldn’t they have been written later as well?

 

 

 

As already stated the precise astronomical occurences described in the scriptures cannot be back-calculated unless you believe that people of that time or anytime later knew how to solve differential equations. Of course, the traditional way to preserve the texts of the scriptures has been through bona-fide disciplic successions. Actually the same argument can be made against all the scriptures of other religions, so what can this possibly prove. If you want to speculate then everything is possible; maybe Hazrat Mohammad never saw or heard from Allah; maybe Jesus was just lying about all that he said etc etc. The real proof is in eating; the sanatana dharma does not depend on one Master rather the chain of God-realized Masters in the disciplic successions who transmit the Transcendental knowledge; anyone who is completely dedicated can realize God in this very lifetime as have many souls done.

[Guest guest]

The ayatollah's are not equal to god and also not worshiped like God. they are at best the living gurus.

VdK.

[Guest guest]

dont go insulting other peoples religion if you dont want yours insulted...

[Guest guest]

^ Who was that directed to? As far as I know, we’re having a reasonable, adult debate interspersed with those idiotic comments that have been posted by moronic fools who know swearing and insulting as the only way to communicate.

[Sunnah]

Only God(Allah) can remove obstacles in a persons life. What makes you so confident that Shree Ganesh removes obstacles in ur spiritual progress....

Since you quoted that "Hindus worships cows and even plants out of respect appreciation and compession". People respect their parents so does that mean they also should be worshipped...

 

There are thousands of cows around the world.. Does that mean they all should be worshipped.Everything in this world dies human, cows, plants. God(Allah) will NEVER die.. He is the creator not a creation.Check your understanding in the Word Worship before using it!!!

 

We are not allowed to kill another human being unless its JIHAD. To protect our religion, then we are allowed to kill, which is not a sin. How the Holy Prophet Mohammed S.W.S fought Jihad for the sake of Islam.

 

Get your facts right before you criticize Islam!!!

[Guest guest]

"People respect their parents so does that mean they also should be worshipped... "

 

ABSOLUTELY! What kind of demon does not worship his/her own parents?! Even in the Koran it says Heaven is under the Mothers' feet!

 

[Guest guest]

Hindu's worhship cows?

Then why do they drink milk?

[Guest guest]

"Hindu's worhship cows?

Then why do they drink milk? "

 

Hindus worship their Mothers also. Do you ask a baby why he/she drink the mothers' milk?

[Sunnah]

So you believe that Parents are to be worshipped too...

Who created you and your parents? GOD.. Everything in this world relates to God becoz these are his creation. God should only be worshipped alone. There are Billions of Parents all over the world. You cant possibly suggest that they all should be worshipped! It is quite clear that you dont understand the meaning of "Worship".Look up the word "Worship" before using it.. It is Referred to as devotion, idolize,adore as divine; honour with religious rites.You're getting yourself confused with the word 'worship' and having 'respect' for parents.

If you can find it somewhere in the Quran that parents, mothers should be worshipped then use it to backup your answer if not forget about it... In the Quran it also states that Allah(god) should be worshipped alone.. Now you tell me where does it say that a mother should be worshipped. Foolish person, you've mistaken yourself from the Holy Quran.

 

The Quran, Hadith does state that the Key to Heaven is under the mothers feet.It is referred to as having respect towards the mother, not to worship her. If you respect your mother and father, and keep them happy.Then God will grant you paradise.This is mostly regarded towards the mother as she is whom gave birth and the love from a mother is greater than a fathers love. The Quran, hadith will never state that a mother or parent should be worshipped. You have used the words from the Quran, Hadith the wrong way.

 

If you have no idea or arn't sure what the words from the Quran mean then i suggest you dont use it..

 

Dont ever Mis-lead anyone from the Quran. If you dont know what it means then dont say it. One word of advise. The Quran is sacred and should NOT be messed with. All meanings in it is for a purpose. You mis-understood its meaning and it is considered a big sin. Dont do it again.

 

All muslim Brothers and Sisters, have faith in Islam.

GLORY BE TO ALLAH!!