Guest guest Posted May 11, 2003 Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 ------THE POST ABOVE WAS FROM THE USER "ENLIGHTENED"-------- /images/graemlins/grin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted May 11, 2003 Report Share Posted May 11, 2003 Those people will kill and mame and rape anyway, whether it's part of their scriptures or not. This way they will remember God when they do. Carry a big stick to keep these dogs away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enlightened Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 It is true that Islam took a really bad turn in its brief history... its not like even 2000 years. anyway, they should try to realize the truth and change their views and morals. so sad, they are all in delusion /images/graemlins/frown.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guruvani Posted June 11, 2003 Report Share Posted June 11, 2003 In essence, the Ayatollahs and Mullahs are gods of the Islamic religion. These Ayatollahs are very influential, powerful and important persons in the Islamic world. Such a position of power and authority could easily fall within the definiton of a "god" of the Hindu religion. Actually, Islamic faith does not afford such power and authority to any man, though modern Islamic culture has elevated the power and influence of these Ayatollahs to roughly the equivelant of a minor Hindu god. A "god" is just a subordinant controller (to God) or a powerful person who has some exceptional authority or influence. A President is like a "god", as he has great power and authority. A King is like a god who has great power and authority. There are millions of "gods" in the Hindu conception. However, since there is really only one "God" or supreme "God of gods" in the Vedic religion, there really is no "polytheism" in the Vedic culture. This term "polytheistic" is a western term and there is no Vedic reference that God is a polytheistic conception. Western people call the Hindu religion "polytheistic", but the real Vedic religion is not polytheistic. Polytheism really means to indicate that there is no one supreme God and that there are actually many Gods. This is not the Vedic version at all. Vedic religion is not polytheistic, as it really does not propose the concept that there are many "Gods". There are many "gods" or actually "demigods" in the Vedic religion, but the term "demigod" is more appropriate than "god". The great spiritual masters of the Vedic dharma refer to these "gods" more appropriately as "demigods" which means they are only possessing some partial qualities of God. The point is, polytheism means that there is no one supreme God, just a host of gods whom sprout from the plane of undifferentiatied absolute spiritual existence. This is not the true teaching of the Vedas according to the Vaishnava gurus. Hinduism is not even a Vedic term. It was a designation placed on the people east of the Indus river by people who lived west of the Indus river. It is not a Vedic classification or definition of the Vedic religion. The Vedic religion is therefore not polytheistic. It is monotheistic in the strictest sense of the term. Only adversaries and opponents of the Vedic religion call it polytheistic. But such a claim is false and simply meant as a way to denigrate and demean the Vedic religion by fanatic religious cults that were created in the name of Mohammed and Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 The answer to your question has to do with the root word used to label each religion. (THEISM) which is the belief in a God or gods. Mono meaning one. Poly meaning many. The label on these religions does not refer to angles, or anything else. Nothing more than the God or gods they believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 The answer to your question has to do with the root word used to label each religion. (THEISM) which is the belief in a God or gods. Mono meaning one. Poly meaning many. The label on these religions does not refer to angles, or anything else. Nothing more than the God or gods they believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 Brother i think you are mistaken, hindus believ in only one god but they accept many forms of god we only believe in the one god purushottam bhagwan. whether you call him krishna, swaminarayan, shrinathji or ram we believe their to be qasupreme god just the way u describe Allah to be! omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevelont and the all doer! so for you to say that hinduism is polytheistic is also a very vague understanding of the true essence of hinduism as hinduism in its core is also monotheistic. because in the vedas and our other holy scriptures the parabrahmn is made time and time again which means there is only one god who controls everything and evryone who even controls demi gods such as ganesh, hanuman, devi maa and other avtars! thankin you 4 reading this and i hope you have not took anything i have said to offense! JAY SWAMINARAYAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 Hi there, I was reading the posts here and couldn't help but wonder what man is? Here we find everyone arguing who's religion is greater? Who's is the right path? Who cares? Yours is a saffron coat, yours is green, still others wear purple, but I like yellow and I will put on one. We are in this world of senses, we are pleasing our senses, our brains, which are nothing but musings of our soul. They will die and perish in the grave or on the pyre. The soul may be free after that or be reborn under it's karma or enjoy the luxuries of heaven or the banishment of hell. Why does it matter? All that matters is did I make an honest effort to find Him. Him in the form of the demi-god who rides a mouse or the formless one who dwells in domes? Who is good and who is bad? The one who reads the holy text is good, but he is killing many insects in the candle that he has lit to read the book (citing Swami Vivekananda), so is he bad? I steal because I can't help it. I give alms to the poor because I can't help it. Aren't we all slaves to the material? One who wants to get it all, the other wants to give it all! Find your God, find your path. Walk your walk, do your task. None is for you, none was for you, You are He, and you are Him too! But He is not you and neither is the other So walk your own walk Search your own God. No book is holier than you, No life greater than yours, But in all this knowing-you, Remember the other has "him" too. Well, these are my thoughts and you have your own too. So I don't mind that. How can I? Do I mind you not breathing the very same air I breathe? Isn't God this breath of life afterall? So why can't all have their own and live in peace? Love is the only God, show me a text that says otherwise? Is any thing divine or mortal more important than love? Praying we all find Him. Utkarsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 "there is only one god who controls everything and evryone who even controls demi gods such as ganesh, hanuman, devi maa and other avtars!". This is what you have quoted. I have a question if there is one god as you say and you respect that also , pls define me demi gods such as ganesh, hanuman, devi maa and avtars. What are these and why do you need them. If your answer to my question is , you need a mediator between you and god to influence you , then there is one more question that arises , what kind of a god is he who made you but doesnot know you that you have to have an influence of some mediator. I donot know what perception you have about god , but the idea that Hinduism portrays the existance and divinity of god could arise to a lot of question. No offence to anyone, but questions are questions. A Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 To a muslim, First of all, "the God" is one ofcourse, and the only reason he created you and me for his enjoyment. This is from the vedas-(scriptures very ancient, that speak about theology, mathematics, chemistry and astronomy). What about the demigods? they are created for his enjoyment. When we talk about enjoyment we talk about being his servants. Moreover, he didn't create you on this earth, you were there, as he was there. He was there before time, so were you. You decided to leave him and do stuff only for yourself. So He let you do that in this material world. But you won't be happy here, because no matter what, the world here has many diseases, a very small lifetime and suffering. You will take many births in this world, to have different experiences, to enjoy those experiences, but you won't be happy, because you have taken many births in the past, you are not happy. So, what you need to do is go back to him. How? You become the favorite of Allah (arabic name for God) by devotion and love for him. Also through the love for his other people here. They are also suffering in this world, so you need to make them realize their true nature and tell them to go back to his heaven, vraja whatever. How do you go back? ----- read hindu scriptures that explain how to be simple and live peacefully and detach yourself from this disgusting material world and jump to the spiritual world of his in this creation. If you decide to detach yourself of this material world, he will help you from with in you. but if you don't detach, if you don't lift that veil and see the light, then you will stay in the ignorance forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 What about the demigods? they are created for his enjoyment. Sorry , but you have still not answered my question , that is why do you need them. What is your connection to them. If they have been created for his enjoyment why should it be a matter of importance to you. You should have your own relationship build up with him directly. Further point 2 Correct me if I am wrong but the real test is to live in this world that he has created for you and to remember him and him only at all times and thank him. Not to seclude yourself to some remote place and try to reach him as it goes against the rule of procreation and other standards of humanitarian existance set by him. As I have mentioned before the concept of God in Hinduism arises a lot of question. I donot want to discuss who is right or wrong but would like to know what a hindu person thinks about God. I mean GOD. It has a very critical sense and meaning to it. The Muslim as you have mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 26, 2003 Report Share Posted June 26, 2003 If you want to know the Krishna Conscious perspective, then there is no connection to the demigods, because we are trying to reach Krishna. However, in so called "Hindu" perspectives, one answer would be is to see that Krishna exists in everything, so you pray krishna in the form of the demigod. So that you realize that he is in every form, thus being self situated. In other words, if you are a student and you want to succeed as a student then you pray Saraswati, who is suppossedly the demigoddess form of krishna who loves people who study. Anyway, in hindu perspective, you get over the sense gratification and become so devotted that your krishna (God) comes in that demigod form to take you. but in KC and in truth , it is not true, you just need to worship Vishnu because in many scriptures it says that if you worship the demigods, you go to the demigod's place... but you don't want that because, when you think about it, you would like to hold on to the highest, and the highest is krishna.... "Hinduism" or Sanathana Dharma is an ocean... there are many questions and many answers. _____ ABOUT: "point 2 Correct me if I am wrong but the real test is to live in this world that he has created for you and to remember him and him only at all times and thank him. Not to seclude yourself to some remote place and try to reach him as it goes against the rule of procreation and other standards of humanitarian existance set by him." _______ You are trying to enjoy in this world, then you are absolutely right, you need to thank him and carry on with your business... keep thanking him by going to the mosque and try to live happily and enjoy the sexual life, have sex as much as you want. You will then get older and older and older and then die of oldage (hopefully), then take another life again then you can thank him, keep thanking him until you die again... Then you take another birth, then you keep thanking him... see where i am going with this?. In order to stop suffering in this world, you need to come out of the thanking,when you are done thanking him, because this material world is an abode of boredom, He will call you. because, you would then want to go back to him. You don't have to go to a secluded place to go back to him. You can carry on your daily functions and think about him , remember him and lead a good peaceful life in devotion to him, then he will say... "I guess that soul learned its lesson , you can come back now" /images/graemlins/smile.gif thanks for reading /images/graemlins/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 <<Whether He is called Allah or Krsna, God is one.>> yes, but the concept of god/krishna you know from the veidc literature is quite different than the concept of god/allah one knows from koran and hadith. here is one stark difference: allah tells his followers to kill the kafirs if they do not accept islam. in contrast. krishna tells his followers to not tell any one about him unless one is interested to know. another difference: if one quits islam, he /she must be killed. in one quits hinduism or vaishnavism, no big deal. there are many such differences. these differences cause the problems. jai sri krishna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 "yes, but the concept of god/krishna you know from the veidc literature is quite different than the concept of god/allah one knows from koran and hadith." When you say this then can you pls let me know what is the concept in the vedic literature. Further as you have stated "allah tells his followers to kill the kafirs if they do not accept islam. in contrast. krishna tells his followers to not tell any one about him unless one is interested to know." If this was the case then there should not have been any Hindus in India as unfortunately the Moghuls ruled them for what 300 years?????. In gods kingdom there is no difference between a king and a simple man as all will be judged equally.If this is the case again then how is that there are more than 50,000 christians in Egypt. Lastly Islam was introduced to the muslim community by one person (Mohammed PBUH), as per you in his time when there were all different faiths , he should have killed them all , I am asking you is that the fact did he??? Give it a thought friend and let me know. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Firstly I really appreciate that we are having an online discussion without any abusive languages to any faith. I think whoever using this site should bear in mind whether a muslim, hindu or whoever. As for you "However, in so called "Hindu" perspectives, one answer would be is to see that Krishna exists in everything, so you pray krishna in the form of the demigod. So that you realize that he is in every form, thus being self situated. In other words, if you are a student and you want to succeed as a student then you pray Saraswati, who is suppossedly the demigoddess form of krishna who loves people who study." Why is the form so important. Why cannot it be without a form. "In other words, if you are a student and you want to succeed as a student then you pray Saraswati, who is suppossedly the demigoddess form of krishna who loves people who study." Asking any man he would question why saraswati if krishna is there. And next what is the reason that he has to change forms , cannot he understand students in the form of krishna , that shows a flaw in him if as you say that he is ultrasupreme. I think he himslf would not like that until some small numbers of Hindu preists put in the mind of many people. Next , you are referring what is commonly said as reincarnation. That is what the quran has to say against reincarnation. "From the (earth) did We Create you, and into it Shall We return you, And from it shall We Bring you out once again. (The Noble Quran, 20:55)" " 'And Allah has produced you from the earth, Growing (gradually), And in the End He will return you Into the (earth), And raise you forth (Again at the Resurrection).' (The Noble Quran, 71:17-18)" "Nor will they there Taste Death, except the first Death; and He will preserve Them from the Penalty Of the Blazing Fire. (The Noble Quran, 44:56)" " 'Is it (the case) that We shall not die, except our first death, And that we Shall not be punished?' Verily this is The supreme achievement! For the like of this Let all strive, Who wish to strive. (The Noble Quran, 37:58-61)" I would like to see your holy books what they talk about reincarnation. Sorry for the delay as I was on my way home. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 You missed my point, the point I was making is that Krishna is so much knowledge that no one can understand him . The only way we can perceive him and have a connection to him is if he relates to us some way. Ofcourse , he does relate, but for the minds that have not understood vedas, the relation has to be real . Well how? He loves you so much that he decides to appear in any form you look him in . If he loves us so much, and if he wants us in his home then why shouldn't he come in any form? All forms are his, so why not come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 "You missed my point, the point I was making is that Krishna is so much knowledge that no one can understand him . The only way we can perceive him and have a connection to him is if he relates to us some way." My dear friend Knowledge is not GOD. Further why is he such a mystery. As you have mentioned , why is he handicapped that he has to take some form to relate to you. "Ofcourse , he does relate, but for the minds that have not understood vedas, the relation has to be real . Well how? He loves you so much that he decides to appear in any form you look him in ." It is not one who doesnot understand the vedas , it is that one doesnot want to understand the vedas. Just listen to what the priests have to say and beleive me this is in every religion. Sorry but opinions such as the one you have mentioned give canes in the hands of atheists . When they ask questions no convincing reply is given to them. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Its hard for me to make you understand, because you are looking at it from a totally different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 This is what it ultimately results into. You give me a rational, logical explanation and I am here to discuss. Donot back out now. Get your information first and then write. Donot discuss what YOU beleive, Discuss what the books tell you to beleive. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Yep thats right, but I am just too lazy to read all that stuff again. I like krishna and I love krishna all I care is about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Yep thats right, but I am just too lazy to read all that stuff again. Common feeling is how could you be lazy to read your own relegious books. By saying this you are offending your own god. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Sorry , about asking you where do you belong in this. Authority of the Veda It is generally believed that the Veda is recognized as an absolute authority in Hinduism but the so-called low- caste (non-Aryan) Hindus have no access to the scripture because they are considered impure by birth. So the Veda is far from being an authority for these people. The only people who are allowed to read and listen to the scripture are the Aryan Hindus. The Brahmans, the sole custodians of the Veda, too hardly benefit from it because it is written in Sanskrit, a dead language, 'its content has long been practically unknown to most Hindus, and it is seldom drawn upon for literal advice' [ 20 ]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Vedas are not just about God, they are about culture, way of life, scientific research , mathematics etc. The vedas talk about "God" in Vedanta, If you want me to tell you on the authority of the veda, that I cannot do, because I am not qualified enough to tell you that . However, if you wish to understand the very fact that why there are demigods in Hinduism... with the notion that Hinduism is just a pagan religion that does not have the status when compared to Islam then that would be just laughable. Moreover, Vedas talk about alot of Gods, Gods such as Indra, Sun, Moon, etc. but they also say that if you pray these gods, you go to their planets after death and live there until your punya is run out. In hinduism, there is karma, karma is the effect of the past actions of an individual. If you are reading this, you will think of it as either nonsense, or either as interesting. If you think of it as nonsense , that would be because you have been exposed to other things in the past, and because of those other things, your karma has made you take the decision that you take now. To escape the Karma all together, you do not worship the demigods, you worship the God of all Gods, which is Krishna.--in vaishnava philosophy. The vedas explain about this krishna as Brahman, who is everything. thank you, but if you want me to quote the vedas and other hindu scriptures, I will take the time to do so, i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 "The vedas talk about "God" in Vedanta, If you want me to tell you on the authority of the veda, that I cannot do, because I am not qualified enough to tell you that ." Is it because you are not a brahmin. "To escape the Karma all together, you do not worship the demigods, you worship the God of all Gods, which is Krishna.--in vaishnava philosophy." I donot understand . What is the hindu supposed to do. It contradicts all you have previously written and believed. Pls refer our previous discussions. You talk about Kali, Hanuman and now you say donot worship them. Donot get me wrong for being such a pain but now I am also confused. Its high time the hindu priests keep the fact in front of these people. You have still not answered my question and present your views on the killing of non-muslims. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 In hinduism , there are many beliefs , 1) The first belief is that if you worship the demigod so much , to relish that love the true god will come in that form to connect with you.- this was said by my grandfather, he was like an acharya in South India. 2) The second belief is that if you worship the demigods then you go to their planets to live there until your punya has run out. - thats what vaishnavas believe. Because, As you have said, there is only one God who controls even the Demigods. The demigods are for his enjoyment. To think of it, demigods are like angels in Islam. They carry out their functions. I think this makes sense, kind of for you. If not please consult a person who is really an expert in this religion, because I am not that person. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif Anyway, thanks for reading. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Gotta run and study for my SATs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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