Guest guest Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 "To think of it, demigods are like angels in Islam. They carry out their functions. " If that is what you are saying and mean then in Islam we donot worship the angels. Islam teaches not to worship any creations of God but the Creator and if you think about it , logical and makes sense. I mean any sensible person would do that. I donot mean that Hindus are not sensible but hey!! question??????????? Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 Do you know Allah? Perhaps the one you address as Allah is simply an angel. You may call me Gary in your response, but you have no idea who I am. Do you know Allah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful 35:1 Praise be to God, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for God has power over all things. This is what the quran says and any person who knows english can see that God and Angels are two different entities. We worship GOD. not angels. Good Try, better luck next time. Gary , I keep on asking you questions but you answer me by counter asking different questions. Seems you really lack knowledge of your own religion and as you have mentioned it before , that whatever knowledge you inherited was from your grand father who was SOME SORT OF ACHARYA. If this is what he has taught you , then you should ask yourself a question , what should be my belief and where do I stand. Sorry for being blunt. Keep on going I have all the patience. I am not here to convert any one , I need just a statement from you saying Yes I do believe in a religion that I am not sure of. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 What happened your last discussion didnot end with "The lord of my very life and breath is Hari!!! " Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 it is I_L_K who has the acarya grandfather. Please read the posts more carefully and with less passion before posting accusations such as this. Gary , I keep on asking you questions but you answer me by counter asking different questions. Seems you really lack knowledge of your own religion and as you have mentioned it before , that whatever knowledge you inherited was from your grand father who was SOME SORT OF ACHARYA. If this is what he has taught you , then you should ask yourself a question , what should be my belief and where do I stand.Sorry for being blunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingentity Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 you are confused. gHari does not end his posts with this quote - it is I_L_K. You are being careless with your accusations. What happened your last discussion didnot end with "The lord of my very life and breath is Hari!!! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 Anyway, the point remains the same, I think I have answered your question. But I think I know what you are doing, but I will not say anything due to the simple fact that explaining to you would be like creating a standing wave in physics. Standing waves appear to be really going somewhere but they really don't, they keep moving back and forth /images/graemlins/smile.gif However, when you are trying to make me say that I am not sure of what I am getting into because of the ignorance in respect to other religions... think again. The reality remains the same, if you look at it from the ground, from the air or from underwater. The same reality that you see in Islam is the same reality that we see in Hinduism, except it is from a different perspective. If you want to say that I(who is a hindu) is looking at the unreality due to the fact that it is a different perspective , well you are wrong, because reality does not change, what we are doing is looking at it as a different perspective. So, Mr. Guest, you are welcome here , however to condemn one's religion to make your's look good would be ignorance. If I ask you that are you sure you want to follow Islam , you would probably say yes. If you ask me that am I sure that I want to follow ISKON (not hinduism) then I would probably say yes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Why? (the answer to this question would look very familiar to your answer ) because I think this is the truth and I have investigated into religions like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism with Impersonal brahman philosophy and I have found them giving me only pieces of the truth, not the whole truth. You will probably answer that the truth lies in Islam, thats great, but also check out Jewist sites, they have more truth than Islam. If you still want more knowledge and think that the Ideas they give are very vague , then go to Christian Sites, after that travel through the sites posted by every religion. I am sure that they will give you more truth than Islam. Please check sites from Iskcon and hinduism too...If you still think they don't give you the perspective of the reality that you seek, then please by all means follow Islam. Islam is a great religion to follow, they say so many nice things about my krishna. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 In our philosophy, for some extent, the Creator is non different from the Creation. Thus proving that the creator is creation and vice versa /images/graemlins/smile.gif. So, you can worship the creator through creation. /images/graemlins/grin.gif So, You can worship cows, plants , seeds, because they are non different from creation thus being nondifferent from the creator itself. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif However, such things will just give you material results because you are worshiping the external material energy of the lord. What you need to do , is worship the internal energy. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 "it is I_L_K who has the acarya grandfather. Please read the posts more carefully and with less passion before posting accusations such as this. " OOPs!! sorry ILK for getting me wrong. Is his knowledge only confined to the family or???. Further the fact still remains. "0 Gopinatha, You are my only hope, and therefore I have taken shelter at Your lotus feet. I am now Your eternal servant." -- Bhaktivinoda Thakura One more who is or was he???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 So it seems our guest is saying that they do not know Allah. They quote a few words and they worship these words, fantasizing about to whom they might refer. If I tell you that Hafiz made your sandals, do you know Hafiz? Do you know anything more about Hafiz other than the fact that he made your sandals? What does he look like? Is he married? What does he do for fun? If I tell you that God made heaven and earth, do you know who God is or do you simply know that God made heaven and earth? Do you know Hafiz? Do you know Allah? Once you know Allah, you will find it is much easier to believe us the first time when we tell you that Hinduism is monotheistic. In fact, once you know Allah, you will realize that you are Hindu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hi, I see that most of those who try to bash other religions are ignorant of the other religions. Gary, you have no idea what Islam is all about. and the Muslim "Guest" has no idea what Hinduism is all about. There is Only One God. Both Hindus and Muslims agree to that. In Hinduism, the different deities are part of the One and Only God. In Islam, Allah has many names for His different attributes. Allah is the Compassionate, the All-Knower, the Giver, the Destroyer, the Creator, etc. In Hinduism, those different attributes of the One and Only God also have different names. Each name is referred to as "god" In reality, those different deities are just different attributes of the One and same God. The Destroyer attribute of the One God, for example, is called Shiva. Hindus do tend to consider creation as sacred. However, Muslims consider the Ka'ba is sacred. Never will any Muslim say that the Ka'ba is god! What is wrong with believing that if God created something with His own hands then that thing is sacred? I think both of you believe in a religion that you do not know. The only way to know for certain is through experience. Each one of you needs to seek the Truth, for the Truth is God. Seek the Truth, to experience the Truth. This is how you become certain in your faith. If you are a Muslim, then do as Muhammad did. Muhammad did not believe blindly. He sought the Truth, until the Truth revealed Itself to him. If you want to follow Muhammad, then follow him this way first. If you are a Hindu, then seek to be under the Krishna Consciousness by seeking the Truth. If the reasons that each of you believe in what they believe because this is what Scriptures say or this is what books say, then you have not yet believed. If you really want to prove to yourselves that you believe, then seek to experience what you believe. Be your own proof. Do not say I believe because this is what I read or this is what I think. Believe because this is what you have truly experienced. Surrender to the Truth to have it reveal Itself to you. If each will bash each other's religion then each of you have an "ego" and dogmas based on that "ego." Kill the "ego" to surrender to the Truth and seek the Truth to reveal Itself. Only then will you know that you need not to bash each other's religions in such a manner. Sincerely kill your ego just to know the Truth. For as long as we have an ego, we will never know the Truth. Regards, Servant of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 So now we are finally on one track here guest. I am glad you understand my statements , muchas gracias. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Not quite. Pls read common reply to one of our new servant of God. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hope you know the meaning. Pld read and shed your light. Mr Gary and folks, Coming to modern times, we have the two important reformist movement of the Arya Samaj and the Brahmo Samaj in Hinduism. The latter is more influenced by Christianity and has discarded the theory of rebirth. Both of these sects denounce idol worship, the Arya Samajists being most militant in this respect. They take their inspiration from the Vedas which they say preached only the unity of God; but they denounce the theory of incarnation, image worship and ritualism as a corruption of the pure Hindu religion and they believe in a functional caste, not in a hereditary caste system. A famous Arya Samaj hymn decries rituals thus: O God how can I please Thee since I possess nothing that I can bring to Thy service? Thy radiance gives light to the sun, the moon, the stars, Dost Thou require the flickering light of my oil lamp To illumine Thy path in the heavens? Thou art Omnipresent; Thy Essence is found in the flowers, the fruit, and the leaves; How foolish it would be for me to make an offering of Thine own Essence to Thee. This is rom your book but probably you may not have read it properly. Further some thing more from your book God is one and the Veda is one; the disinterested true Guru is one, and his initiatory rite is one, when this is obtained His heaven is one; There is but one birth of men upon earth; And only one way for all men to walk in. But as for those who hold for Vedas and six Sastras, And different customs for different peoples, And believe in plurality of gods, Down they will go to the fire of hell! The Siddhars are equally uncompromising in their denunciation of caste and image worships. O Brahmans listen to me! In all this blessed land There is but one great caste, One tribe and brotherhood. One God doth dwell above And He hath made us one In birth and frame and tongue. One more thing Islam , Christianity and Judaism have one thing in common " These are religions of the book and the Quran calls them the people of the book. This fact remains and every person of the book believes that. Hinduism "NO" No book in the hindu religion is the book from GOD but it has been writen by People. I repeat People. Think you need to confirm this with your priests. Baghvat Gita which probably you may be holding the book of authority was written by Valmiki. Dont tell me now that he was the incarnate of Krishna. Your own people will not believe that. You should have found this in your book, Its a pity that me being a muslim found that. These are certain facts that you need to see and study. Don't give me all this over sea wave and under sea wave theory. Regards Servant of God. I have conclusively always mentioned that I am not here to "BASH" any religion and I think Gary understands that perfectly. See this is what your problem is you donot read. I have always quoted what Gary was saying and am asking questions on that. And there you are bringing something that is totally irrelevant to the subject. I think people like you should stay away because when you cannot help donot try to wreck. Gary and myself are having a healthy discussion , I donot think you realise that. There are somethings that you donot just let go as you maybe accounted for. Hope you realise that being "Servant of GOD" Furhter this is for everyone..... Mr Gary and folks, Coming to modern times, we have the two important reformist movement of the Arya Samaj and the Brahmo Samaj in Hinduism. The latter is more influenced by Christianity and has discarded the theory of rebirth. Both of these sects denounce idol worship, the Arya Samajists being most militant in this respect. They take their inspiration from the Vedas which they say preached only the unity of God; but they denounce the theory of incarnation, image worship and ritualism as a corruption of the pure Hindu religion and they believe in a functional caste, not in a hereditary caste system. A famous Arya Samaj hymn decries rituals thus: O God how can I please Thee since I possess nothing that I can bring to Thy service? Thy radiance gives light to the sun, the moon, the stars, Dost Thou require the flickering light of my oil lamp To illumine Thy path in the heavens? Thou art Omnipresent; Thy Essence is found in the flowers, the fruit, and the leaves; How foolish it would be for me to make an offering of Thine own Essence to Thee. This is rom your book but probably you may not have read it properly. Further some thing more from your book God is one and the Veda is one; the disinterested true Guru is one, and his initiatory rite is one, when this is obtained His heaven is one; There is but one birth of men upon earth; And only one way for all men to walk in. But as for those who hold for Vedas and six Sastras, And different customs for different peoples, And believe in plurality of gods, Down they will go to the fire of hell! The Siddhars are equally uncompromising in their denunciation of caste and image worships. O Brahmans listen to me! In all this blessed land There is but one great caste, One tribe and brotherhood. One God doth dwell above And He hath made us one In birth and frame and tongue. One more thing Islam , Christianity and Judaism have one thing in common " These are religions of the book and the Quran calls them the people of the book. This fact remains and every person of the book believes that. Hinduism "NO" No book in the hindu religion is the book from GOD but it has been writen by People. I repeat People. Think you need to confirm this with your priests. Baghvat Gita which probably you may be holding the book of authority was written by Valmiki. Dont tell me now that he was the incarnate of Krishna. Your own people will not believe that. You should have found this in your book, Its a pity that me being a muslim found that. These are certain facts that you need to see and study. Don't give me all this over sea wave and under sea wave theory. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted June 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Baghvat Gita which probably you may be holding the book of authority was written by Valmiki. Valmiki did not write Bhagavad Gita. He wrote Ramayana. You get your information from some websites which contain wrong information and you pat yourself on the back thinking that you know a lot about Hinduism. Moreover, who wrote Quran? Why should anyone believe that it was written by Allah. Did Allah personally write it with his own hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 why is Islam so sexually inclined... For example, how come there is more emphasis on sex in the heaven of Islam . The Heaven of Islam looks more like the Heaven of Indra, but the Heaven kingdom of Indra is temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 OK Valmiki wrote Ramayana , If I am not mistaken that is one of the authority books. Mr Avinash , You have not read the whole thing , there is somethings that I have quoted from your books for which there is nothing mentioned. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 The first topic to discuss is hinduism , I think that is what me and Gary were discussing. You bring in unnecessary topics that have no relation. Further if you donot have anything possitive to write, you can back off. If you are so keen why don't you help Gary answer the questions that I have put him. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 I was only asking a sincere question... but ok, if you only wish to discuss hinduism, it is fine by me /images/graemlins/smile.gif Hold on, i will try to answer the questions which you put in for us /images/graemlins/grin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 First of all, you pose many good questions, however, such questions are easily answerable. First of all , Bhagavath Gita was not written by Valmiki, It was written by a great Rishi named Vyasa. Vyasa was the writer of mahabharat too. He was also the father of Dritharashtra, Pandu, and other major characters in Mahabharat. Anyway, I did not understand what these Arya Samaj scriptures are... If they are in existence, they are probably trying to scare other people from going in different ways that do not take Vedas into reference. Can you please tell me the Origin of Arya Samaj, thank you ,I would appreciate that. Also , by the quotes again, they are explaining to the brahmans that they hold no Special Importance because we are all God's children. This would mean that these guys dwelt in the middle ages and probably some people follow this now. If you wish to explain that our own vedas prove us wrong, please get stuff from these four vedas "Yajur VedaSama Veda" or "ArthavaVeda" or the "Rig Veda". It is great that you believe that Quran is God Written book... But you see, If God wanted to teach his people through love for them, would he come down here and talk to us or would he write a book and say, "Hey , follow this buddy" Krishna came down here, then he himself explained how people should live. Now, you might argue that he was only talking to only one guy. But then we would have to argue that he is the one who created such a dillemma for Arjuna, he is the one who gave Vyasa the power to see all this and he is the one who let Vyasa make a book about it. If you say , vyasa did not exist, well you are wrong, because we have many places where vyasa went. I went to such a place on my last visit to India, it was an 2 years ago. If you say Hindu texts are not written by God himself , you are right, because why would God write, when he can come down here and tell it to you himself. All they did was take notes /images/graemlins/smile.gif Even though this will seem far fetched, there are references of his coming down even today. Oh yeah, don't feel that it is a pity that you being a muslim have found such a piece of text in our "religion". Actually I am glad you found it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif But please, tell me if it is from the vedas, or from other valid hindu scriptures. Muchas gracias senor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 HK Devotees of Lord Sri Krishna believe (as it is written in the Vedas) that Prophet Mohammed is an Incarnation of Krishna, who came down to help the 5th class of people.. reach God/Allah. It is said in the Bhagavad Gita:-. Out of the 8,400,000 different species of living beings, there are 400,000 human species. Out of these there are numerous lower forms of human life that are mostly uncivilized. The civilized human beings are those who have regulated principles of social, political and religious life. So from this you can see that because of the different species of human beings, each one must act differently, so they have different personality's and inclinations toward different religions, hence so many different religions are MADE by Krishna, so in the end the Goal is ONE to reach GOD! Some take a long time, some maybe not so long, but at the end of the day, we all want to reach God, for we are HIS CHILDREN.......Haribol /images/graemlins/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Mr Govindaram "Devotees of Lord Sri Krishna believe (as it is written in the Vedas) that Prophet Mohammed is an Incarnation of Krishna, who came down to help the 5th class of people.. reach God/Allah." I think the vedas came much before Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). How is it then written that he "is" an incarnation of Krishna. If what you say is true then Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) was a man and he was and is worthy of respect to the highest order but in no way woshipable, I repeat worshipable and logically Then Krishna would not be. I am just quoting you. Only Allah is to be worshiped. Other prophets of any religion came to show the right path to the people of their time but Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) came to show the right path to his people and the complete mankind till the last day. That doesnot make them woshipable. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 It does say that the supreme lord comes to our planet after every yuga, and it does say in other scriptures that Krishna will come as Kalki. However, I do not think Mohammed is Kalki, because Mohammed established a completely different religion and did not call himself God. When Kalki arrives, every one will agree that he is God and he will say that He is God and He will appear normal like you and me... Anyway, the point is this, dear Muslim guest, please get the controversial topics from the Vedas and other hindu scriptures so that we can have a discussion among them as you wish. But don't explain to me what this samaj or that samaj does... there are thousands of samajs that form due to the ignorance of the very nature of that is human. The word Samaj literally means a group in Hindi. Entonces senor, it would be wonderful if you show the reference that shows the denial of Idol worship in Vedas. /images/graemlins/grin.gif because then we can start going in the path that would look pleasant to you, however, I did read parts of the vedas and I did not find the denial of Idol worship of the supreme lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 HK Better than worship of God, is worship of His devotee. Please the devotee, the you can please God easily. The vedas prophesied the appearance of Prohfit Mohammed, because you have an impersonal view of God, theres no point me explaining anything to you my friend /images/graemlins/frown.gif I have done thi before to no avail.. Haribol ps to a' Sp Last Official Declaration I had a good thread going and you locked it out, took me ages to write it out, thanks a lot prabhu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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