Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Any religion that claims to the be ONLY way to God is pure hate manifest and this applies to both Islam and Christianity. This is not the truth that Lord Krishna or Lord Shiva has revealed to us. The doctorine that everyone else burns in hell forever and suffers for choosing the "wrong" religion is an absolutly evil doctorine that deserves no respect or consideration. No wonder the Abrahamic Satan rebelled against the God of the Bible and the Koran. Such a god concept as what these 3 Abrahamite (Islam,Christianity,and Judiasm) sects adhere to is demonic and should be out right rejected by all good hearted individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 I try to keep within my limits. Allah knows better. Mr Avinash and friends , I have quoted verses from your Vedas . Would you be kind enough to comments on them and let me know what hinduism of then and now. Thanks for being considerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 "He is bodyless and pure." when you learn something you have to look at the complete picture..... there are some scriptures, like bhagavata purana, who speak with great precision of the personality of godhead, sri krsna and all the main personalities (avataras) coming from him so, without contradictions, vedas first point on the concept that god is not material, then, when the listener is ready, they explain the nature of the transcendental form of the lord and his features in this sense that "bodyless" have to be interpreted as "without a material body" please start to think that if we have bodies in material world, there must be bodies also in the spiritual platform.. .. if we are religious, we have to assume that spirit is at the origin of everything "material bodies" means : "birth, grow, decline, death" "spiritual bodies" means : "eternity, happines, consciousness) but both are bodies it is a little funny to defend the personality of God with a muslim, who calls God by name..... it seems to me like i am speaking with a buddhist! :-) in your religion, if i am not wrong, is said that god has a face that we do not see, not that he's faceless or bodyless the other devotee has said the right, i have some difficulties with the language.. please be kind!! hari bolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 "there are some scriptures, like bhagavata purana, who speak with great precision of the personality of godhead, sri krsna and all the main personalities (avataras) coming from him." What is that personality which you have differntianted it from krsna and the other avataras. As a muslim Among the various attributes of God, one of the beautiful attributes mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3, is Brahma. Brahma means ‘The Creator’. Translated into Arabic it means Khaaliq. Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Khaaliq or ‘Creator’ or Brahma. However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it. This is what is the root cause of a major difference. By the way thanks to Allah I am a muslim and not a buddhist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Please kindly take a minute to register and then discuss, because this stinks~~~~~~~~ All I am seeing is "Guest" argue with "Guest" and then "Guest" argues with "Guest" and then Avinash comes up and argues with "Guest" . So please. takes some time off to register and "Delete" the confusion in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted July 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it. In Sanskrit scriptures, there are two words both of which are written in Roman script as "Brahma". Actually, there are transliteration schemes to distinguish between the two, but those schemes can not be used in an ordinary text editor. Lord Brahma (pronounced as Brahmaa) is not considered as the supreme. Vedas talk about Brahma (pronounced with clipped 'a' at the end). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 "Lord Brahma (pronounced as Brahmaa) is not considered as the supreme. Vedas talk about Brahma (pronounced with clipped 'a' at the end). " There is so much confusion , I give you'll the credit to differentiate the mysteries that lie around you. Further no one has replied to the verse by verse interpretation from the vedas. SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Bhavishya Puran This is a Sanskrit work of prophecies. The title means ‘Book of the Future’. Since Hinduism is based in India it was, and still is, taken for granted that its sages will be born in India itself. Contrary to this belief the Book says that a great master will appear in a foreign country (mlechcha acharya) and live in a sandy region (marusthal). His name will be Mahaaamad. Within a short span of 18 couplets Mahaamad is mentioned five times. One couplet enumerates the main identification points of Mahaamad’s followers; They will be circumcised (unknown in India); cut hair of their heads short (as against the Indian practice of long uncut hair knotted into a bun), keep beards call out at top voice (for prayers - Azan) and will be omnivorous (i.e. eat vegetarian as well as meat). The class of Hindu religious masters are strict vegetarians). They will be known as Musalay! These details will completely dispel any suspicions of coincidence in the matters between Mahaamad and Muhammad (Pbuh)! There is an interesting information in Bhavishya Purana that Mahaamad would appear to Bhoj, ruler of Dhar, and say that he would establish the religion of meat eaters, by the command of Ishwar i.e. God. There is a tradition that long afterwards, Bhoj got terrified on seeing the full moon split into two. Learned men consulted holy books and told him that it was one of the signs of the Universal Master to be born in a country to the West. Bhoj sent his minister to Prophet (Pbuh) in Arabia, who named the king Abdullah. The Tomb of Abdullah is still there at Dhar. (Refer Fig.1) SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 4, Transcendental Knowledge TEXT 40 ajnas casraddadhanas ca samsayatma vinasyati nayam loko 'sti na paro na sukham samsayatmanah SYNONYMS ajnah--fools who have no knowledge in standard scriptures; ca--and; asraddadhanah--without faith in revealed scriptures; ca--also; samsaya--doubts; atma--a person; vinasyati--falls back; na--never; ayam--this; lokah--world; asti--there is; na--neither; parah--next life; na--not; sukham--happiness; samsaya--doubtful; atmanah--of the person. TRANSLATION <font color="red"> But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed </font color> <font color="red"> scriptures do not attain God consciousness. </font color><font color="red">For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. </font color> PURPORT Out of many standard and authoritative revealed scriptures, the Bhagavad-gita is the best. Persons who are almost like animals have no faith in, or knowledge of, the standard revealed scriptures; and some, even though they have knowledge of, or can cite passages from, the revealed scriptures, have actually no faith in these words. And even though others may have faith in scriptures like Bhagavad-gita, they do not believe in or worship the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna. Such persons cannot have any standing in Krsna consciousness. They fall down. Out of all the above-mentioned persons, those who have no faith and are always doubtful make no progress at all. Men without faith in God and His revealed word find no good in this world, nor in the next. For them there is no happiness whatsoever. One should therefore follow the principles of revealed scriptures with faith and thereby be raised to the platform of knowledge. Only this knowledge will help one become promoted to the transcendental platform of spiritual understanding. In other words, doubtful persons have no status whatsoever in spiritual emancipation. One should therefore follow in the footsteps of great acaryas who are in the disciplic succession and thereby attain success. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 Thank you "muslim" guest. You have finally resorted to using Hindu scriptures to back up your "religion". According to this logic, since you claim that the Puranas allegedly support the existence of islam, then you must believe that the Puranas and other Hindu scriptures to represent the Truth. Following on, since you are believer in the Hindu scriptures, you believe in the eternal Sanatana Dharma. Welcome to the fold Hindu brother. Finally, you have stopped wandering in the wilderness that is islam. Incidentally, you claim that this God of yours is formless or bodyless. Why then do you worship God in name and attributes? Do you really think God has a nametag, or can be defined by 99 attributes, yet if formless? Islam is based on such narrow philosphical foundations, that you fail to realise that all forms of worship are idolatry. If God is formless, then God must be nameless and attributeless. You only reject physical idols, but what about idols of the ear? If God is formless, are you saying that God is incapable of taking form? If so, you are guilty of placing the finite restrictions of the human mind on God. If God is unable to take form, then He cannot be Omnipotent can He? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 The question here is not mine , it is yours whether you are a believer of the hindu scriptures or not. I am just trying to point you in the direction that you may have forgotten or donot understand. You better be carefull because I am quoting from your books and you as a hindu are contradicting your own holy books. So you know where your belief stands. We are discussing Hinduism and not Islam. There is no point speaking about Islam YET. Let us just stick to your scipture. Further if you find something wrong with your scriptures I think the time has come for you to make changes to them. KEEP TO THE SCRIPTURES. Answer and contradict exactly what I am quoting. BHAGAVAD GITA The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita. Consider the following verse from the Gita: "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures." [bhagavad Gita 7:20] The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God The following verses from the Upanishads refer to the Concept of God: "Ekam evadvitiyam" "He is One only without a second." [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1 "Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah." "Of Him there are neither parents nor lord." [svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2 "Na tasya pratima asti" "There is no likeness of Him." [svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3 The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form: "Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam." "His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye." [svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4 And there you are giving him forms. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 "Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 4, Transcendental Knowledge TEXT 40 ajnas casraddadhanas ca samsayatma vinasyati nayam loko 'sti na paro na sukham samsayatmanah SYNONYMS ajnah--fools who have no knowledge in standard scriptures; ca--and; asraddadhanah--without faith in revealed scriptures; ca--also; samsaya--doubts; atma--a person; vinasyati--falls back; na--never; ayam--this; lokah--world; asti--there is; na--neither; parah--next life; na--not; sukham--happiness; samsaya--doubtful; atmanah--of the person. " TRANSLATION But ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures do not attain God consciousness. For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this world nor in the next. " Now you tell me where you stand. I have quoted verses from BG above. Think before you come down strongly. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 SS, It is said that one needs a qualified spiritual master to understand the Vedas, for having seen the truth they can impart wisdom. I feel, however, I can explain to you how we do not see God with these material eyes. That information is provided in the Brahma-Samhita 5.38: <TABLE border=0 cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="100%"><td width=40%"><center><img src=http://home.primus.ca/~caitanya/Syamasundara.jpg></center> </td><td width=60%"><center><font color="red">premAJjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaH sadaiva hRdayeSu vilokayanti yaM zyAmasundaram acintya-guNa-svarUpaM govindam Adi-puruSaM tam ahaM bhajAmi </center> prema--of love; aJjana--with the salve; churita--tinged; bhakti--of devotion; vilocanena--with the eye; santaH--the pure devotees; sadA--always; eva--indeed; hRdayeSu--in their hearts; vilokayanti--see; yam--whom; zyAma--dark blue; sundaram--beautiful; acintya--inconceivable; guNa--with attributes; svarUpam--whose nature is endowed; govindam--Govinda; Adi-puruSam--the original person; tam--Him; aham--I; bhajAmi--worship. </font> I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is SyAmasundara, KRSNa Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love. PURPORT The SyAmasundara form of KRSNa is His inconceivable simultaneous personal and impersonal self-contradictory form. True devotees see that form in their purified hearts under the influence of devotional trance. The form SyAma is not the blue color visible in the mundane world but is the transcendental variegated color affording eternal bliss, and is not visible to the mortal eye. On a consideration of the trance of VyAsadeva as in the zloka, bhakti-yogena manasi etc., it will be clear that the form of SrI KRSNa is the full Personality of Godhead and can only be visible in the heart of a true devotee, which is the only true seat in the state of trance under the influence of devotion. When KRSNa manifested Himself in Vraja, both the devotees and nondevotees saw Him with this very eye; but only the devotees cherished Him, eternally present in Vraja, as the priceless jewel of their heart. Nowadays also the devotees see Him in Vraja in their hearts, saturated with devotion although they do not see Him with their eyes. The eye of devotion is nothing but the eye of the pure unalloyed spiritual self of the jIva. The form of KRSNa is visible to that eye in proportion to its purification by the practice of devotion. When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the stage of bhAva-bhakti the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve of love by the grace of KRSNa, which enables him to see KRSNa face to face. The phrase "in their hearts" means KRSNa is visible in proportion as their hearts are purified by the practice of devotion. The sum and substance of this zloka is that the form of KRSNa, who is SyAmasundara, NaTavara (Best Dancer), MuralIdhara (Holder of the Flute) and TribhaGga (Triple-bending), is not a mental concoction but is transcendental, and is visible with the eye of the soul of the devotee under trance.</td></table> Other very important information was provided earlier in this thread CLICK HERE. You must read these short passages to continue this discussion with any integrity. I appreciate your attempts to unify our conceptions of the Supreme God by referencing the eternal Vedas. May Allah bless your heart for your honest interest in finding peace with His religions. gHari P.S. I recognize your post by the word 'donot', which is actually not a word in the english language. Although your english is quite remarkable, I thought you might appreciate knowing that unlike 'cannot', 'do' and 'not' are not joined together except as the contraction "don't". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Hare Krishna I would like to ask the Muslim people in this forum, do you love Allah, If you do then how can you love something impersonal, I am talking from the point of view of Islam so please don't deviate from the asked qusetion. Just say do you love Allah or not, I have Muslim workmates and they say Allah is the greatest, but when I ask do you love, they frown? So could you please answer for me? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 "The form SyAma is not the blue color visible in the mundane world but is the transcendental variegated color affording eternal bliss, and is not visible to the mortal eye." It is visible to mine , I donot know how you cannot see it , you gave him the blue color in the photo. My questions is did he himself give blue color. "It is said that one needs a qualified spiritual master to understand the Vedas, for having seen the truth they can impart wisdom. I feel, however, I can explain to you how we do not see God with these material eyes." These statments are there in all the religion. We donot take the effort to know the truth and believe BLINDLY what a person in the mosque , church, or mandir says. FIND AN EASY WAY OUT. The difference between a hindu and muslim is , a hindu does not or cannot ask questions or probably , is not entitled to know the truth. A muslim can ask as many questions as he can. Further with all that you have mentioned can I take it for granted that the vedas and upanishads are not important scriptures. Because as I have mentioned before I need a contradictory answer to each and every veres by verse mentioned. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 To answer your question when a muslim prays and I emphasize PRAYS , he only prays to Allah and doesnot include any person or deities eg : Prophet Mohammed, Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Noah, ( PBUT) and all the others. So all the love and praises every thing belongs to Allah. In Islam, belief in One God is the most important belief. Allah in arabic refers to the One God. It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no PLURAL OR GENDER. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic. The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty, Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing and nothing is comparable to Him. (monotheism) Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinash Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures." [bhagavad Gita 7:20] When did any of us ever deny this? There are many who want material pleasure. They worship demi gods. But, there are some who seek Krsna's supreme abode. According to Gita, they worship Krsna. "Ekam evadvitiyam" "He is One only without a second." [Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1] "Na tasya pratima asti" "There is no likeness of Him." [svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19 These verses mean that no other being can match His opulence. When did any of us deny this? "Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah." "Of Him there are neither parents nor lord." It is true that in reality, Krsna is beginningless. So, He does not have any parents. But, when He comes on Earth, then He may consider smebody as His father, somebody as His mother etc. The same is the case with He not having any lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 You say you believe but you have been denying all the way. The concept doesnot go with what you say. Further , "It is true that in reality, Krsna is beginningless. So, He does not have any parents. But, when He comes on Earth, then He may consider smebody as His father, somebody as His mother etc. The same is the case with He not having any lord." Do you know what you are saying. Seems all this is coming out of somebody's pocket. What kind of GOD is he to consider somebody as his father or mother and the questions is WHY!!!. Why does he make himself so weak??????. The aborigins of Australia have a very unique concept of GOD. If you meet them they will ask you mdoes your GOD have to attend natural calls of life , and as you say he comes to earth as a human being you canot deny that. THEN HE IS NO GOD , that is the answer you will get. Guess an aborigin. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 <font color="blue"> Hare Krishna </font color> We pray too to Krishna but with Love, and we teach other people to love Krishna as well, its not mundane or imaginey it is there as a seed within your heart, the only way to have a little taste is by chanting the Maha-Mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 We pray too to Krishna . So you pray to a human being. One of your brother mentioned that when he comes down to earth he could consider someone as a mother or a father. That reminds me of something when he comes down to earth , who takes care of the heavens and universe??. Don't tell me a newly born child has that capacity. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govindaram Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 <font color="blue"> Hare Krishna </font color> Krishna 'decends' to attract all living entities to Him, he 'comes' down just like a normal human being and has parents, only His devotees can know him fully, so you see he is not a Human being. Also he has multi-potencies so the univerce is taken care of without a problem, where ever Krishna is, just by His willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 So now you tell me that GOD krsna is divided into parts. One part comes to earth for a passtime or he cannot see through it becauses it is clouded. The other somewhere in the universe taking care of it and so on and so forth. I have stayed in India and have a lot of hindu friends and intellectuals . India does have one of the highest intellectuals in the world , but when it comes to this topic all the brain is mucked up. I donot understand how you'll can digest all this illogical concepts fed to you by your sadhus, priests, and saints. Doesnot anyone question them ? Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 So, please kindly open it with that key that is used to open it, which is impartiality. If you stick the idea that Islam is wonderful and Hinduism is bad in your brain and try to read this stuff here, then every single fact presented to you will look crooked and horribilly bad, because the idea that it is crooked and horribilly bad is manifest in your brain before any one even talks about it. By your statements , you don't know sanathana dharma (hinduism) . You have many hindu friends but you don't know why they follow such a religion where there is this God.. and he is every where and also seperate from everything all together. It seems ridiculous does n't it. Yes, for now it is ridiculous. Why? because you have that Muslim veil over you. It is a scenario where one goes to space and says sky is not blue, sky is infact colorless but the atmosphere reflects blue light thus leaving it blue. Then we say, "how can that be!!! we are seeing that sky is blue from our earth here. Sitting here we are seeing sky is blue! how can you say sky is colorless, what kind of a dumb idea is that?" So, first open your mind, when you open your mind, you will see things clearly (If that is what you want to do in the first place). Also, if you open your mind, you will also see why we "Hindus" stick to our philosophy so much and do not convert to Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_love_krishna_ Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 The basic fact in hinduism is , God is very near to you, yet very far. In other words, this whole universe along with all millions of multiuniverses is made up of God. You have no individual existence apart from God, because God is like water and you are like the droplet. So, he is Omnipresent because he is everything. The God is not just everything, he is different from it. For example, you are your finger, yet different from it right? you are not just your finger, you are your other fingers with hands and legs and a brain (to think) and a heart(to give you life) .... Just like that, he is everything yet different from it. _______ So, that is the first lesson in knowledge which is taught by people much smarter than Einstein and definitely more smarter than Muhammed. The intelligence that they possessed made them write vedas which compose of mathematics, sciences, philosophy, astronomy. If you want to see the math section , click here www.vedicmaths.org But please don't call our statements illogical, it would be like saying the sky is blue everywhere and this earth is the universe which alone exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Forget a muslim. Any body other than a hindu when he reads this will find it very illogical. What about the aborigin , he is not a muslim , how would you convince him. He is convinced with one concept , how would you empower yours. Regards SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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