You've gone and done it this time

[Gauracandra]

Leyh,

 

Thats a nice point but it doesn't matter because idiotboy108 (that's you Paul) is an idiot.

 

I hear stories and have seen instances of such idiotboys a number of times. They are always idiots who have no practical understanding of the philosophy. One story I was telling a devotee the other day happened a number of years ago. Mother Malati was explaining that one day her young daughter, Saraswati, was running in the kitchen and fell into a pot of hot chutney. Well there were idiotboys back then too who told her and her crying baby "Why is she crying? Why are you panicked? Don't you know you're not the body. She's not the body, so what if she fell and had 2nd degree burns." Well those people are idiots.

 

Luckily they are a small minority. Another story on one of the Prabhupada "Memory" videos. A lady devotee dropped a plate and it smashed on the floor. The lady turned to Srila Prabhupada and said "I guess it was Krsna's arrangement". To which Srila Prabhupada blasted her and said "THAT WAS NOT KRSNA'S ARRANGEMENT. THAT WAS YOUR CARELESSNESS". Again, an idiotgirl in this case.

 

So of course you will have idiotboys. In this case it looks like Paul is the 108th idiot boy out there (they come sequentially you know). Which isn't too bad considering the movement's been around for 35 years.

 

Gauracandra

[JRdd]

Originally posted by paul108:

Free speech? Either the terrorists destroyed more than buildings, or that misrepresentation of freedom is what they were angry about.

Paul, it means that these "gentlemen" get to call you names rather than intelligently addressing your points.

 

Although I was far from ecstatic about the World Trade Center tragedy and all that followed, I am ashamed of my brothers' behaviour here. And more than a little appalled.

 

respectfully, Jayaradhe

 

 

[JRdd]

Hari bol Gaurachandra, I just read your second to the last post and was about to reply to it when I saw this resonse to me. I wanted to say that after reading your post I see that you explained quite vividly what you meant by "idiot", and that is fair. What I didn't like, earlier, was some blasting him instead of explaining. That did not seem very intelligent to me, and would not encourage a mind to remain open. People are not all on the same level of understanding and I wish we had more patience with each other.

 

Sorry if I offended you. Did not mean to, though I was surprised when I glanced over the fray and saw you saying idiot, without (I thought) explanation.

 

thanks for explaining,

that's all I wanted,

Jayaradhe

[Gauracandra]

Jayaradhe, Leyh,

 

You both are probably right. This is the first time I have ever used any curse word on these forums, so you must imagine how angry this made me.

 

I should have listened to Random and not even bothered with responding.

 

Gauracandra

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I do my best to minimize the harm I cause to the world, always remember Krishna, and engage in devotional service to His name, form, etc, though I am not yet very advanced in devotional service. Why would it be ok to silence me with a bullet?

Ask yourself why it would be okay to silence 5,000 people with a plane crash? I think the answer is the same.

 

I cannot help that I felt so joyful when I first heard that the WTC was hit by an airplane and as I watched the morning's events on TV.

This is a sign of not advancing on the spiritual path. Those who are "unmoved" by others pains, thinking they are beyond the dualities of happiness and distress, are mostly just pretenders. The true quality of advancement is when you are unmoved by your own happiness and distress. To be unconcerned with others sufferings while very much concerned with your own is just the sign of a typical conditioned soul. I would hope that those who practiced some sort of spiritual sadhana would rise above such levels of self-centeredness.

 

When it is others sufferings we will quote how everything is illusion, it is all maya, we should be situated beyond dualities, etc. Let us see how we will react when a plane crashes into an ISKCON temple in New York. Will you have the same equanimity?

 

Our spiritual master, Srila Prabhupada, felt compassion when he saw children going without food in Mayapur. He subsequently instructed his disciples that for a 10 mile radius of his temples no one should go hungry. He didn't say that we should laugh at those suffering knowing that it is their karma. He didn't tell us what sinful activities those children did in their previous lives that resulted in their sufferings. He simply told us that we must help them.

 

A vaishnava suffers when he sees others suffering. This is one of the symptoms of a saint. Though he himself is beyond the dualities of happiness and distress, when he sees other souls subjected to the sufferings of karma he feels great compassion for them.

 

It is out of compassion that the self-realized souls accept the reactions of their prarabdha karmas and continue existing within matter, despite being liberated. If they wish they could immediately attain Vaikuntha upon realization of the Lord, but they accept the Lord's desire that they should continue living till the end of their body simply to benefit the conditioned living entities.

 

[Caitanyachandra]

Impersonally, I think 108 is taking the opposite viewpoint for intentional laughs. Rude.

 

When I saw the 2 boeings crash through the WTC's. I was with laughter. I have never seen such a sight even on the movescreens. What an incredible technologies. However I was upset at Giuliana making a charade at Bush's speech time. No coincident that Bloomberg is runnin for mayor of NYC's.

 

It is unfortunate 5000 people died in this tragedy. More people died in the floods of Orissa. Not that many people gave a penny about that.

 

I haven't kept uptodate. But why was there a pigeon/bird flying acroos the screen when the 2nd? plane crashed the buildings. Sad. Liike i said, there is some conspiracy going on here.

 

I don't care about the victimes of these tradegdies. I care about fixing and moving on.

 

Expect more bombings in next year.

 

 

[Caitanyachandra]

You have gone and done it this time gaura.chandra!

[paul108]

I did not celebrate anyone's suffering. I feel distressed whenever I'm aware of living entities suffering, but remembering Krishna removed my distress and I felt wonderful. I had just been instructed in Bhagavad-gita class that seeing any spectacular thing should remind one of Krsna.

 

Maybe all of the USA is in fear, but awareness that death may be near is very good incentive to begin serving Krishna. Perhaps we should forget about blowing up the Middle East, and spread Krishna consciousness.

 

When I watched the destruction I celebrated everyone who died as heroes, and I thought it was wonderful. I did not feel sorry for them at all, and I believe that the lives were sacrificed for the ultimate good of the world.

 

I read every day about the destruction committed by Americans throughout the world, and I frequently witness Americans terrorizing living entities everywhere. How could this attack not be considered to have been a retaliation? I did not realize that maya was so heavy that Krishna's devotees would promote war as the right action instead of glorifying Krishna's holy name.

 

I am presuming to be having a discussion with people who are devotees of Krishna, not ordinary people. I do not discuss this way with ordinary people. I've been criticized here for speaking out against the USA and repeatedly threatened, but I am also a citizen of the United States in the bodily conception, and believe I am excercizing my right of free speach for anyone's benefit. I did not expect that devotees of Krishna would have such twisted ideas of patriotism to consider that I should be murdered for sharing my feelings. I assumed that everyone who might read my opinions would have a fairly clear understanding of Krishna's explaination to Arjuna of the qualities of the soul and would not be bewildered by mundane nationalism.

 

I thought about the examples given of Malati's child being scalded, and Srila Prabhupada chastizing his disciple for breaking the dish. Protecting children is a duty that should be obvious to everyone, but what may not be obvious is that Krishna's name gives all protection.

 

When the devotee dropped the dish, the dish broke to alert the aspiring devotee that she was being inattentive in her service. She knew it was Krsna's will that it broke, but she didn't arrive at the actual purport without hearing it from Srila Prabhupada, which was that she should be attentive in her service to Krishna.

 

I also heard that devotees were chanting Krishna's names at the WTC a week before the attack, which leads me to believe that a lot of people went back to Godhead. I would have to be insane not to be joyful when that happened. Hari bol.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by paul108 (edited 09-24-2001).]

[valaya]

So paul, why not take your higher understanding to Pakistan (see other thread) and teach them how to protect themselves with the Holy Names? They would probably welcome your `environmental protection`, as well, that you mentioned in your profile.

 

I'm sure the `non-devotional` devotees here will miss your obviously astute insights, but just think of the deep realizations you'll have to share on your return! That is, if you return...

[Caitanyachandra]

108paulZssz:

 

"Maybe all of the USA is in fear, but awareness that death may be near is very good incentive to begin serving Krishna."

Not exactly not correct.

 

Death may be an incentive to inquire to who am I or what am I rather than the body I am concentrating on.

 

That is a beginning to inquiring into Atman, the real personality of my identity (Zvarupa also).

 

After understanding one is a servant of Krishna, a miniscule corpsuclar ray of light from the Infinte. A tiny weeney being. Afterwards, one receives humility from The Universal One who gives liberation to all.

 

[This message has been edited by Caitanyachandra (edited 09-24-2001).]

[Caitanyachandra]

Then Bhakti will begin.

 

For others, the more advanced karmi's. They can start devotion-yoga immediately. BECAUSE they gotss autoattract.

 

 

[leyh]

Originally posted by Gauracandra:

Jayaradhe, Leyh,

 

You both are probably right. This is the first time I have ever used any curse word on these forums, so you must imagine how angry this made me.

 

I should have listened to Random and not even bothered with responding.

 

Gauracandra

Gauracandra:

I can understand why you were so angry.Personally,I feel that Paul108's "meditations" on his "escatsies" were so undiplomatic.

 

Lets put this all behind us and hope for the best for the eminent confronation with terrorism.

 

 

[paul108]

 

So should we go back to glorifying Krishna, or keep glorifying the USA instead?

[valaya]

Originally posted by paul108:

So should we go back to glorifying Krishna, or keep glorifying the USA instead?

There is a separate thread for glorification of Sri Krsna, if you are inclined to do so, as Leyh has done already.

 

The suggestion you would do well to listen to is that you avoid broadcasting anti-war or especially anything that could possibly be taken as pro-terrorist sentiments on the internet, or anywhere else that can identify you personally.

 

If you cannot accept the seriousness of the present situation and the intense feelings involved as extremely volatile, you have only yourself to blame for whatever ensues.

 

Whether or not you are at physical risk, just provoking those who have been initiated devotees for several decades and performed devotional service over so many years, is really asking for trouble.

 

If you think sucking up to Krsna by `glorifying` Him can make up for disturbing His devotees, you're in for a big surprise!

 

You're being called an IDIOT because you continue to act like one, moreso than due to your opinions, ignorant as they may be.

 

A word to the maybe not so wise...

 

 

[Guest guest]

[valaya]

In wartime, perceived threat is identical to threat and treated accordingly.

 

So far as Krsna, Srila Prabhupada, devotional service and devotees are concerned, you continue to prove that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 

Once again, telling some one they're acting like an idiot is not identical with calling them an idiot, although they may in fact actually be an idiot.

 

Wishing another dead and wanting to kill them are two different things, but if I were you I wouldn't push it...as pointed out previously, I am not the one you should worry about.

[paul108]

Originally posted by valaya:

Wishing another dead and wanting to kill them are two different things, but if I were you I wouldn't push it...as pointed out previously, I am not the one you should worry about.

You've referred before to some person wanting to attempt violence against me. Do you have some reason to suspect someone might hurt me, or is this an idle threat?

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by paul108 (edited 09-25-2001).]

[paul108]

Originally posted by valaya:

There is a separate thread for glorification of Sri Krsna, if you are inclined to do so, as Leyh has done already.

 

I thought one should endeavor to glorify Sri Krishna everywhere.

 

 

The suggestion you would do well to listen to is that you avoid broadcasting anti-war or especially anything that could possibly be taken as pro-terrorist sentiments on the internet, or anywhere else that can identify you personally.

 

 

I am not pro-terrorist. I believe the USA had incurred a big karmic debt and was delivered a karmic reaction. If we Americans do not even consider our faults, I believe there will be so much killing in the future. I hoped that by pointing out that America ought not to be so proud, I hoped to do some good. I don't think about the terrorists, only that some reaction would have to come somehow. Mostly I've been acting on the premise that the karmic reaction would primarily be environmental devestation resulting directly from animal slaughter. That was the conclusion I reached studying environmental science, soon before finding Srila Prabhupada. I think it is consistent with Vedic understanding that a little violence is dharma when used to prevent something far worse. The airplane hijackings were a little violence compared what Mother Bhumi will do if we do not wake up soon.

 

I've only expressed my viewpoints on the internet in groups that I thought were supposed to be devotees. I'm surprised how you are advising me how to stay safe, just days after you expressed a desire to kill me. I cannot help but wonder how much false pride it would take for Americans to abolish the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution by threatening persons who express minority viewpoints.

 

If you cannot accept the seriousness of the present situation and the intense feelings involved as extremely volatile, you have only yourself to blame for whatever ensues.

 

I'm not interested in becoming a martyr over such a mundane issue, but I am supposedly guaranteed certain freedoms by the First Amendment. How can Americans claim to be patriotic and deny free expression? I'm painfully aware of the barbaric nature of so many Americans, which is why I've only brought up my viewpoints in what I thought was devotee circles.

 

Whether or not you are at physical risk, just provoking those who have been initiated devotees for several decades and performed devotional service over so many years, is really asking for trouble.

 

I'm not disturbing anyone's devotional service to Krishna. What does glorifying the U.S. or any other nation have to do with devotional service?

 

I do not know how to separate good and evil according to nationality, clan, or person, and so I cannot support my country's involvement in any war, unless it is a war against maya fought by the chanting of Hare Krishna. If we can't sort them out, we should not kill them. Krishna is perfectly capable of arranging for the death of whomever He wishes. The Battle of Kuruksetra was fought after Krishna personally informed both sides of His wishes. How do you know that America is acting riteously?

 

If you think sucking up to Krsna by `glorifying` Him can make up for disturbing His devotees, you're in for a big surprise!

 

I thought I would only be disturbing followers of acting president George W. Bush, not followers of Srila Prabhupada.

 

You're being called an IDIOT because you continue to act like one, moreso than due to your opinions, ignorant as they may be.

 

I don't think people calling names is very mature.

 

Hari bol.

 

[This message has been edited by paul108 (edited 09-25-2001).]