A comment on the AIT (Aryan Invasion Theory)

[Guest guest]

I've done a little research on the Aryan Invasion Theory. It seems to me that the backbone of this speculation resides on the following points:

-White skinned nomads invading and subduing dark skinned dravidians

 

-The aryans were few in number, but "managed" to subdue, somehow, a population many times its size

 

-Destruction at mohenjo daro and harappa

-Verses in the vedas allegorical to destruction of dravidians by aryans.

 

However, after some research on the web, I found some articles refuting this, saying that the British fabricated the AIT to crush the Hindu culture, stating the Vedas to have been writting at 600 A.D (?!), and that the sites of harappa/mohenjo daro do -not- contain any proof of attack (No broken chariots, arrows, burned forts, etc.) and that the "allegories" in the Vedas are all strategically and deliberately misinterpreted by the British to further diminish indian culture (Verses on Indra vs Vritrasura translated as White Aryan Indra crushing Black Dravidian Vritrasura).

 

This refutation of the Aryan Invasion theory makes perfect sense to me, but all this is only from one source. My question is:

"Can anyone confirm the negation of the aryan invasion theory based on the lack of solid proof in mohenjo daro/harappa and the British position in the political climate of India (especially noting British luminaries of the time such as Muller)?"

[Gauracandra]

I'll see if I can find the quotes, but I know that a number of most prestigious archaelogical institutions in Britain were founded specifically to undermine Indian nationalism and identity. I know on these forums before I quoted directly from some old letters that state exactly this. I'll try to pull those up.

 

Related to the Aryan Invasion Theory abit... I remember seeing a program on Discovery Channel (I think) about the findings of many white "mummies" in China. They seemed to have Nordic features (blond or reddish hair) that was braided, and had various types of tartans (plaid cloth). When I saw this I thought it lent some credence to the AIT, with the migration of Aryans into China. I'll see if I can find some more info on this. Anyone heard of this discovery? I thought it was interesting.

[Gauracandra]

One more thing I recall. These "mummies" had various tatoo markings on their body, and the archaelogists suggested perhaps they were sun worshippers. Again, I'll try to dig up some more on this issue.

[Guest guest]

Ok..Sun Worshippers.

China.

You know, in Dvapara Yuga, Karna, the son of Surya, was given the kingdom of Anga, or "China" by Duryodhan. See the connection? Sun of Sun God ruling China, Chinese mummies that are sun worshippers.

 

Food for thought.

 

[Gauracandra]

I'm still trying to locate those quotes. There are some really good ones where for instance the founders of certain schools specifically say "This archaelogical school is being founded to undermine Indian society etc..." I'll see if I can find them but it might take some time.

[Guest guest]

Here's some personal experience.

I went to a christian boarding school when I was eleven, in south India. There, they taught AIT and British Supremacy, used the British textbooks, and made it completely unlawful to bring up hinduism. I mean, I don't like raising names, but come on. I being an Indian respect the fact that we won freedom, by do we HAVE to come crawling back like this? India is really not self reliant, and it's because the british did a great job crushing our will.

 

By the way Gaurachandra, it's good to see some intelligent, inquisitive people in this forum

[shvu]

 

 

"Can anyone confirm the negation of the aryan invasion theory based on the lack of solid proof in mohenjo daro/harappa and the British position in the political climate of India (especially noting British luminaries of the time such as Muller..

 

 

No.

 

Very briefly, the fact that Sanskrit is more related to European languages than to the Dravidian language(plus several other points) show these languages and hence these groups are from a common source. Where was this common source? Again, the fact that current archaeological evidence in harappa show these civilizations were pre-vedic, which is why it is believed the Vedic folks came from outside India. For details, read a good history book. If one wishes to stick to facts, one has to look beyond internet articles.

 

Recently, there are a group of people who have been stating a new theory according to which, the Vedic folks are native to India. When asked to explain the language similarities with Euproean languages, one group claimed that they all came from India (with absolutely no evidence) and another group says linguistics is pseudo-science and should not be used to link civilizations!. Needless to say, none of these people are qualified historians, pursuing history as a hobby and having absolutely no idea of the science of linguistics. Some examples are internet scholars like Rajaram, Talageri, etc. Rajaram claimed to have deciphered the Indus script and was subsequently exposed as a fraud.

 

I suggest, not falling for Internet articles written by some people, biased by national pride and who are not qualified historians. Their agenda is to talk about the "Aryan Invasion theory" (I wonder who came up this idea), to berate Max Muller (Again, I wonder why) and complain that the British wrote Indian history to aid their colonization plans.

 

This has been well received by people who like the idea of India being the Mother civilization. So long as it sounds nice, people are willing to cut some slack wrt Evidence.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

Aha.

What exactly IS a good history book?

The Vedas, or a book made by the British? Who would know more about India?

 

Point 1) The Vedas really don't say anything about any Aryans invading. There's just nothing there

 

Point 2) The Vedas do state things about Aryans, and Aryans are considered the native people of India. "Aryan" means exalted. However, it states that they moved OUT, not in.

 

Point 3) Certain celestial/astronomical dates are given in the actual vedas, and traced back scientifically, and are verified as true. These books give dates of about 7000 B.C and earlier. Now, this completely refutes any modern history book saying that the Vedas were written in 600 B.C

 

Point 4) Very accurate details are given of conquerors leaving India and of course, conquering. Bhima's path is stated as crossing the bay of bengal, cambodia, through china, into the area of the former soviet union.

 

Point 5) One may say "But where's the proof?". Well, there are archaelogical evidences of travels out of india such as Bhima's. Example: A civilization near present day russia used to worship a Bhima diety.

 

Point 6) The Ruins of the earliest chinese civilizations have proof that people from India conquered and destroyed them. This also applies to the sumerian civilization, and all the way as far as egypt and lithuania.

 

Final Point: Please do not have the misconception that the Vedas are not an authority on History (itihas). This is a prideful misconception. If one wants solid proof, it exists in the Vedas. But one may say "How can we trust the authors of the vedas?"

 

Well, I say:

"How can you trust the authors of your history books? Were you there in the fall of rome and the crusades?" No, obviously, but we trust the records of the people as TRUE, and back it up with archaeology.

 

The same applies to the vedas! We trust the vedas as truth, and then we search for tangible evidence, and believe me, tangible evidence exists, in mass quantity.

 

I hope I enlightened you

[shvu]

 

Karna,

 

 

I hope I enlightened you

 

 

 

We will keep this simple.

 

1. Can you quote a single instance of a Veda giving it's date to be 7000 BC ? I would like a specific reference, please.

 

2. A reference to a history book which says the Vedas were written [sic] in 600 BC?

 

Provide these 2 references and I will be enlightened. Btw, a good history book is what is written by a qualified historian, based on proper, accurate research and is used as an academic text book.

 

Cheers

[Gauracandra]

The problem is history is written by the winners. I do believe there is an "objective" history. Still it isn't very easy to ascertain. We have liberal historians who put liberal slants on events, and we have conservatives who do the same thing. If the South had won indepence during the civil war in the U.S. I guarantee you President Lincoln would be seen historically as a tyrant, or a loser. But since he won, he is a great president (and I think he is, his writtings are brilliant). The same can be said for all historical events.

 

Now with something like AIT, there is not real history, simply people trying to connect dots and build a story. There are no photos, or written history. I do think it is a legitimate point that no scriptures speak of such an invasion. And I view the similarities between India and other areas of the world as curious. I tend to think in general things will go from a single point, and spread out to multiple points (not the other way around). If so, I think it looks most promising that India is the single point, and other areas are the various splinter groups.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

Here is one quote from "Vedic Archaeology"

 

The attempt to edit the [Mora Well] inscription is instructive. Many early archeologists in India were Christian - and they made no bones about their motivation. In the early 1800s, for instance, some of the greatest progress in the field of Sanskrit and Indological study was made at Oxford University. H.H. Wilson became the first Boden Professor of Sanskrit at that particular school. His successor, the famous professor M. Monier-Williams, has clearly delineated the original purpose and motivation for Indological study: "I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its founder, Colonel Boden, stated most explicitly in his will (dated August 15, 1811) that the special object of his munificent bequest was to promote the translation of scriptures from Sanskrit - so as to enable his countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives of India to the Christian religion."

 

 

[shvu]

 

 

Colonel Boden, stated most explicitly in his will (dated August 15, 1811) that the special object of his munificent bequest was to promote the translation of scriptures from Sanskrit - so as to enable his countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives of India to the Christian religion."

 

 

This, I don't understand. How does translation of sanskrit scriptures enable one to convert hindus into Christians? The people who actually worked on the early translations (Wilson et al.,) give no indications in their translations about such underlying motives. Most of the transations until early 20th century were by non-Indians. I fail to see how this resulted in conversion of hindus. How reliable is the info in "vedic archaeology"?

 

Given the language similarities, it is fairly certain that there was immigration at some point of time. Several factors such as,

 

1.Non-mention of iron in the Rig-veda

2. An abundance of horse references in the Rig-Veda

3. Non-availiblity of evidence for the existence of horses during the Indus Civilization

 

and so on, have modelled the immigration theory. It is not important whether there was an invasion or not. The recent group of revisonists conveniently skip the main deciding factors and fixate on trivial points (viz., the invasion part). The reason being the champions of this new theory are people like Rajaram, an engineer living in the US, Talageri, a bank employee in Bombay and so on. Given their background and their motive, it is no suprise that their work is poor, unscholarly and unconvincing.

 

Indian history has been in the hands of Indian researchers for almost a century now. But they still haven't discovered anything concrete to falsify the immigration theory. This just proves that Indian history was not distorted by the British as self-proclaimed historians like Rajaram et al., claim. The problem is most people who read internet articles have no means of verifying their authenticity. Most of them having not read actual history, not knowing how such a theory was arrived at, etc and also carrying a natural dislike for the British (for subjugating India), instantly accept such propoganda articles on their face value. It seems very natural that the British would have written Indian history with an underlying motive.

 

If not anything else, Rajaram has a lucrative hobby, makes some extra pocket money and has also gained some popularity in certain circles. He would have been even more popular, had he not been exposed for the horse-seal fraud.

 

Cheers

 

[shvu]

 

Those who wish to know how contemporary historians arrive at the Aryan immigration theory, can read the Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies, Vol 7, issue 3 (May, 2001). It treats in depth, the current view and also the views of the critics. It should be available somewhere on the net and can be found by a google search. This will give people the correct picture of history, free of distortion due to propoganda angle(s), supplied by critics. Getting the facts right, will help people evaluate things for themselves.

 

The critics (revisionists) position can be found in Hindutva sites like voi.org, swordoftruth.com, etc.

 

Cheers

 

[Guest guest]

this reveals the ignorant rantings on the post you mention at the electronic journal

 

http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/myth-of-invasion.html

[Guest guest]

 

also at this link there is much more

 

http://www.itihaas.com/ancient/contrib1.html

[Dharma]

Here is a link on the mummies

http://www.discovery.com/stories/history/desertmummies/desertmummies.html

 

Used to make Russian Easter eggs and the swastika was an ancient symbol used in some of the tribal designs. You see it used in advertising and traditional design in India.

 

I think the first book on AIT was Sir John Marshall's Mohenjo-Daro & the Indus Civilization

 

This civilization engaged in sea trade with Mesopotamia and had a language with over 250 characters. Think it had the first planned cities known in history. Even paved bathrooms with hand flush toilets in the houses! The same measurements were used in all of them.

 

It is said the people were controlled by the food supply rather than the use of arms. What is said to be the most amazing is the lack of change. The shape of the pots did not change, the boundries did not expand, the copper ax heads did not change, the alphabet was not modified.

 

So they are assuming ancestor worship-reverence for the old ways. It is also thought that water was worshipped or at least treated as sacred. Yoga was practiced.

 

The Aryans were thought to be invaders, a northern non urban people. I think it is this account that says the Aryans were first mentioned in Mesopotamia records around 1800BC and were moving into Iran and Northern India as well.

 

They were less materially advanced than the Indus Valley civilization and lacking in arts and sciences. But were better in metals and weaponry. They were divided into 5 tribes and remained illiterate for a long longtime. Their priests memorized everything.

 

Anyway it is my understanding that the original people were more advanced in art, technology and science.

[xxvvii]

Don't mistake Tokharian for the sole Aryan race in Central Asia. There were many races in the same appearance.

Tokharians spoke in an IE language diff. from Indo-iranian. They was mainly distributed at Kucha, Argi, & maybe Miran. In older days, they lived in easter region in Gansu. They moved westward owing to the pressure of a north Asian race, Hun. Tokharian was a weak race among Chinese in the east, Hun in the north, & Indo-iranian in the west

[Guest guest]

who cares what is sure the aryan race originated in india.

[Guest guest]

There was no such thing as aryan invasion.

 

and shvu, u don't make no sense at all. You think you know everything. Ive noticed that whatever post you have written you try to discredit, devalue the indians, i don't know why and i don't care either.

 

fact is aryan invasion never happened, you can keep saying whatever about aryan invasion theory, but nah mate, no such thing as aryan invasion.

 

end of story

 

now live in peace

[Guest guest]

Aryans were the original people of India, and later they migrated to Europe. That explains the DNA part of the 'evidence'. Next, Brits invented AIT, not only to divide and conquer but to take away all the credit from ancient Indian achievements. Now if you tell people that ancient Indians invented math, science, architecture, medicine etc., people will say, "Yes, but those ancient Indians were from Europe. You (meaning Indians) achieved nothing of note!" See how clever they are? And of course, this was greatly helped by Indians themselves because they were flattered when compared to whiteys. Taht's why you always find Indians who play along with AIT; it makes them feel more "European" and less "Indian". It is all part of terrible inferiority complex that's been plaguing India for centuries.

[Guest guest]

It really amazes me how Indian people just eat up the pseudo-scholarly drivel (i.e. Aryan Invasion Theory and the like) spoonfed to them by the British system of education now current in India. Indian accomplishments in mathematics, science, literature, etc are more likely to be learned by students in the United States than in India. Indian students learn that their country is backward, superstitious, etc and that they must embrace Western ideas of pseudo-egalitarianism in order to progress. "Progress" ofcourse, is defined as the acquisition of material goods and rebellion against traditional values of sexuality, respecting one's elders, following scripture, and so on.

 

In India, students are more likely to learn about Shakespeare, Francis Bacon, and John Stuart Mill than they are to learn about Kalidasa, Bhagavad-gita, or Chanakya! In Western countries, knowledge of Western writers and their literature is considered an integral part of the curriculum, even for those who are from other countries studying in USA. In India it is the same thing - they will teach Western writers but they won't teach anything about indigeneous literature as this is not regarded as relevant to the Indian cultural identity!

 

And ofcourse, if you want for the system to change, for the history to be less biased and more evidence-based, the "secular" education people will label you as a right-wing fundamentalist.

 

In a very real sense, the British never left India. They continue to dominate the Indian intellectual landscape and will do so for many years to come.

 

[Guest guest]

<< Taht's why you always find Indians who play along with AIT; it makes them feel more "European" and less "Indian". >>

 

No, that is not the reason.

The reason is: the brits set up the education system where they taught this to them, and they new nothing else.

however there always were some indians who knew the truth.

Now, many know the truth, and know the brit's ill designs and acts.

 

jai sri krishna! -madhav

 

[Guest guest]

There is truth in this. Lord Macaulay who created the modern Indian education system, explicitly stated that he wanted Indians to turn against their own history and tradition and take pride in being loyal subjects of their British masters.

 

Macaulay made no secret of his intentions. In a famous letter to his father he wrote: “Our English schools are flourishing wonderfully. The effect of this education on the Hindus is prodigious. ...It is my belief that if our plans of education are followed up, there will not be a single idolator among the respectable classes in Bengal thirty years hence.

 

To this end, a new discipline called Indology, and whole new tribe of scholarship called Indologists were created and supported by the British. The most famous of them all was a German by name Friedrich Max Muller who saw the opportunity and made a grand success of it by working for the British according to Macaulay’s plan.

 

The plan was to translate, edit and publish Indian classics—especially the Vedas—in such a manner that it would turn the educated people of India against their history and tradition and make them take pride in being ruled by the British. .

 

Max Muller is still regarded as a great lover of India and her civilization but the reality is that he was a British agent paid to give a derogatory interpretation of the Vedas. We have his word for it.

 

Writing to his wife in 1866 he observed: “It [the Rigveda] is the root of their religion and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last three thousand years.” Two years later he also wrote the Duke of Argyle, then acting Secretary of State for India: "The ancient religion of India is doomed."

 

from TORTURED SOULS CREATE TWISTED HISTORY

 

by Navaratna S. Rajaram

[Guest guest]

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