Westerners coming to India for peace

[Avinash]

From newspaper articles, I am finding that many westerners are coming to India. On interviewing they say that they have come here for spirituality because, according to them, it will give them peace and thus a better life.

 

But, there are many Indians who like taking up jobs in western countries because they feel that it would help them lead a better life.

 

Why is it that Indians think that there is better life in West and westerners think that there is better life in India?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

I think part of it has to do with the poverty in India. Many people in India have not acquired wealth before, so they believe that is the key to their happiness.

 

In western countries, where people are mostly wealthy, they also may have had the same beliefs while growing up, but on attaining some degree of wealth, they conclude that it doesn't provide any fulfilment to their life, nor inner happiness, and as a result they turn to spirituality for fulfilment.

 

Indians who have gone to the west and have experienced working for software companies (where the salaries are very high), may also begin to realize that money doesn't bring them fulfillment or happiness. I know many who have actually returned to India because they were happier in India (even though their salary was one tenth). I have seen others who admit they were happier in India, but continue working to fulfill obligations to family.

 

Those in India who have never gone abroad have an idea that life will be perfect if they can just get a job overseas.

[Avinash]

I don't think poverty is the only reason. I don't even think that it is prime reason. This is because there are many in India who are earning good salary and can take care of their families easily in that salary. Still, they like to get a job in US.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Another aspect is that culturally and morally Indian society is in a shambles. There may be some who are vegetarian and doing puja in their homes daily, but the same people engage in so many abominable practices such as dowry, caste, prejudices, corruption, contempt for other people, jealousy, lack of empathy, exploitation and harrasment of women etc. And most people couldn't care less if something bad happens to others around them. Selfishness is perhaps one of the underlying qualities of today's india.

 

For example there was just a news report about how after the Kargil conflict the Indian government gave licences to the families of those who died in the battle to run petrol pumps. But some government officers were trying to force these people's relatives to pay huge bribes before they would release the licenses. Here someone died fighting for these officer's country while they were sitting comfortably in their office, and now they are trying to cheat their family out of the little compensation the government is offering. How low can people go?

 

Sadly, this is the Indian mentality today. Cheat and exploit shamelessly, regardless of who is being exploited.

 

As long as there is this shelfishness and exploitive nature, people will not turn to God consciousness or spiritual life.

 

Amazingly, in western countries, where they engage in so many sinful activities, such as killing of cows, they still have much better qualities of humanity. I think this is what makes them more suitable for spiritual pursuits.

 

The westerners have many bad habits externally, but internally they are very good people in a general humanity sense. Whereas most Indians seem to be exactly the opposite. Once in a blue moon there is a Avinash who is concerned about others. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif The other 99.9% of the population has no concern for other's welfare.

 

[shvu]

 

 

From newspaper articles, I am finding that many westerners are coming to India. On interviewing they say that they have come here for spirituality because, according to them, it will give them peace and thus a better life.

 

But, there are many Indians who like taking up jobs in western countries because they feel that it would help them lead a better life.

 

Why is it that Indians think that there is better life in West and westerners think that there is better life in India?

 

 

Basically, all people are alike.

 

There are some Indians too, who lose interest in material success and hope to find something better, something permanent through Spiritual life. A similar fraction of westerners also do so and come to India (with it's mystic image) hoping to find something. But this fraction is just a small number of westerners. The majority of the people in the world have little or no interest in Spirituality. Since they are foreigners in India, they get noticed more.

 

For a person in India, so long as he wants to be make money, the best way is to earn in Dollars or Pounds. Naturally many Indians jump at the chance of going abroad and making more money. Some of them cannot adjust to western culture and return to India, but the majority have no problems living in a foreign country.

 

Cheers

 

[Avinash]

The westerners have many bad habits externally, but internally they are very good people in a general humanity sense. Whereas most Indians seem to be exactly the opposite.

 

The problem is that people give too much importance on what others will think about them. People do something wrong and try to hide it from others because they do not want to be criticised. There is nothing surprising in this. But, there are also instances where people do something good and try their best to hide it from their family and relatives. I will give the reason through an example: -

 

Suppose that a person is spending money in order to help poor. If his relatives come to know of this, there will be some who will praise him. But, there will also be some who will make fun of him. Some people will even say,

"I need some money. I am known to you. The people whom you are helping are in no way related to you. So, rather than giving them money, give the money to me."

 

It is not that these people really have money problem. Most of the times, they are earning quite good amount but still they want more and more of money. Not only that, some of them also ask for the money in order to spend on something which is highly unethical.

 

Whatever I have written above is not just imaginary. I have myself faced such problems. This is why, when I spend money to help others, I always try my best to hide it from those known to me. So, I am also the kind of person who gives undue importance to what others think. But, the society of India is such that you can not make anybody in your relation angry.

 

[Katwoman973]

I agree with a lot of what has been said here, many people today are finding that money does not equal happiness.

 

Growing up in the US all of my life, I was told get a good education and good job and make good money and you will be happy. Well, I have education, I have a pretty decent job, and I have all the "stuff" that goes with it, I own my own home, have a new car, and while I'm not rich by any means, I'm neither poor, but...I'm not happy. I will be 30 soon, and have started looking back at my life and wondering what have I truly accomplished....I have all the material things I wanted, but I'm truly not happy. How do I find the happiness I seek

 

Now, it's a matter of how do I balance the growing need to devote my time to more spiritual matters, while still paying the very real material bills!

 

I'm getting better at not worrying about what others think of my progress (which is the way I see it, and all that I believe truly matters), my life and the way I live it has to be between me and God. Too much of my life has been lived according to what "others" feel I should be doing or saying or Be-ing.

 

I would love to visit India, and am trying to learn more about it's culture, but I believe that no matter where you "move" to if you aren't connecting with that inner peace, and inner happiness you will never find your "home". That is the difficult part of my journey. I could probably move to a different location, but for me, if I'm not settled within, my outer surroundings don't matter.

 

I hope that our selfishness as human beings can be made into a positive selfishness.... what I mean by this is that we start worrying about the right things, the internal things, not how much we have or can get, but worrying about our own part in the Spiritual awakening of the whole. In one of the earlier posts, I see where someone expressed that westerners are more caring of each other, while sometimes this is true, the US is very much of a material mentality. For all the help we seem to give, a lot of people "give" for the wrong reasons as well. I believe that until we start focusing on more of the spiritual as a whole, no matter where we live we will find the unrest that plagues us. To me, no geographical location is "better or worse", it has to come from within.

 

Namaste,

Kenyatta

 

[theist]

Katwoman said:"I would love to visit India, and am trying to learn more about it's culture, but I believe that no matter where you "move" to if you aren't connecting with that inner peace, and inner happiness you will never find your "home". That is the difficult part of my journey. I could probably move to a different location, but for me, if I'm not settled within, my outer surroundings don't matter."

 

So true.

 

 

[Gauracandra]

There is always the grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome. Many westerners might perceive India as a land of mysticism, and perhaps it is in some respects. But I suspect you have to get off the beaten path in order to actually experience this mysticism. Indian society it seems to me is very atomistic. I've said this before, but if religion is the glue that binds society together, then the very religious structure of the guru, causes a continual breakdown in society. You have a cultification of society, such that there is no common ground from which to move forward. To put it another way - there is no coherent ethical structure. Diversity has benefits on the margins, but at some point it results in diminishing returns, and then quickly moves from being a societal plus, to a major societal minus. India is just too diverse in my opinion. And what is the use of high philosophy if it is not put into practice? Western civilization on the other hand is relatively not very diverse. Christianity, with its emphasis on morality and ethics, is concerned very little with abstract, esoteric philosophy. As was pointed out in that one article I posted a link to some time back (The Everlasting Man), philosophy is ultimately saddening. It doesn't bring joy, hope, or comfort. A good friend who puts his arm on your shoulder and listens to you means more than all the high philosophy in the world. Its basic humanity. Now Western Civilization has seen some diversity in religious breakaways. But in general we see large blocks grow, splinter, and continue to grow. In each case the basic ethical beliefs remain more or less the same. A Catholic, a Baptist, an Amish, a Seventh Day Adventist, a Greek Orthodox Christian, have a common foundation - the Bible, and while their interpretations may differ on the margins, for the most part they are pretty similar.

[atma]

When Prabhupada was the only guru the movement expanded enormously, now with many gurus and most of them pushing their own agendas with the disciples following them it seems stagnant. No offense intented, just some observation.

[Avinash]

First of all, let me say that I agree that "glass is greener" is the main reason why some Indians feel that life will be better in West and some westerners feel that life will be better in India.

 

You have mentioned that diversity is not good in the long run. I agree with this. But, if different people follow different ideals, then there has to be diversity. Who will decide which ideal is the correct one. Let us take an example. The disciples of Sri Prabhupada think that they should do what Sri Prabhupada has asked them to do. The disciples of some other guru prefer to follow the teachings of their guru. So, here itself there is diversity. So, it is true that diversity gives diminishing returns in the long run. But, what is the solution?

 

[Guest guest]

I couldn't agree more. It's simply a case of grass being greener on the other side.

 

 

There is always the grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome. Many westerners might perceive India as a land of mysticism, and perhaps it is in some respects. But I suspect you have to get off the beaten path in order to actually experience this mysticism. Indian society it seems to me is very atomistic. I've said this before, but if religion is the glue that binds society together, then the very religious structure of the guru, causes a continual breakdown in society. You have a cultification of society, such that there is no common ground from which to move forward. To put it another way - there is no coherent ethical structure. Diversity has benefits on the margins, but at some point it results in diminishing returns, and then quickly moves from being a societal plus, to a major societal minus. India is just too diverse in my opinion. And what is the use of high philosophy if it is not put into practice? Western civilization on the other hand is relatively not very diverse. Christianity, with its emphasis on morality and ethics, is concerned very little with abstract, esoteric philosophy. As was pointed out in that one article I posted a link to some time back (The Everlasting Man), philosophy is ultimately saddening. It doesn't bring joy, hope, or comfort. A good friend who puts his arm on your shoulder and listens to you means more than all the high philosophy in the world. Its basic humanity. Now Western Civilization has seen some diversity in religious breakaways. But in general we see large blocks grow, splinter, and continue to grow. In each case the basic ethical beliefs remain more or less the same. A Catholic, a Baptist, an Amish, a Seventh Day Adventist, a Greek Orthodox Christian, have a common foundation - the Bible, and while their interpretations may differ on the margins, for the most part they are pretty similar.

[Guest guest]

Sadly, your post perfectly describes most Indians. It's unbelievable how quickly the once great culture of this country has degraded to where it is today. It seems that the effect of Kali yuga is more pronounced in India than in the rest of the world and the rate at which it is degrading, the western countries will appear saintly in comparison, in a few decades time.

 

 

Another aspect is that culturally and morally Indian society is in a shambles. There may be some who are vegetarian and doing puja in their homes daily, but the same people engage in so many abominable practices such as dowry, caste, prejudices, corruption, contempt for other people, jealousy, lack of empathy, exploitation and harrasment of women etc. And most people couldn't care less if something bad happens to others around them. Selfishness is perhaps one of the underlying qualities of today's india.

 

For example there was just a news report about how after the Kargil conflict the Indian government gave licences to the families of those who died in the battle to run petrol pumps. But some government officers were trying to force these people's relatives to pay huge bribes before they would release the licenses. Here someone died fighting for these officer's country while they were sitting comfortably in their office, and now they are trying to cheat their family out of the little compensation the government is offering. How low can people go?

 

Sadly, this is the Indian mentality today. Cheat and exploit shamelessly, regardless of who is being exploited.

 

As long as there is this shelfishness and exploitive nature, people will not turn to God consciousness or spiritual life.

 

Amazingly, in western countries, where they engage in so many sinful activities, such as killing of cows, they still have much better qualities of humanity. I think this is what makes them more suitable for spiritual pursuits.

 

The westerners have many bad habits externally, but internally they are very good people in a general humanity sense. Whereas most Indians seem to be exactly the opposite. Once in a blue moon there is a Avinash who is concerned about others. The other 99.9% of the population has no concern for other's welfare.

[sanatan]

 

Katwoman said:"I would love to visit India, and am trying to learn more about it's culture, but I believe that no matter where you "move" to if you aren't connecting with that inner peace, and inner happiness you will never find your "home". That is the difficult part of my journey. I could probably move to a different location, but for me, if I'm not settled within, my outer surroundings don't matter."

 

So true.

 

I'll also go along with this view. I plan to visit India--Vrindavana, Mayapur, Varanasi--in the next few years, but I don't harbor any illusions that doing so will magically transform my spiritual life.

 

The USA is a good place to be.

[Guest guest]

Dandabat pranam

 

I would like to say that some really good stuff happening in India can be found at the website of our Administrator, the Bhaktivedanta Ashram.

[Guest guest]

I was totally impressed by the website of the Bhaktivedanta Ashram. I stayed up all night reading about it.

 

Especially I liked the article about "Food for Death". I think it should be required reading for everyone who has any noble sentiments left in this

Dark Age of Kali.

 

I also appreciated the quotes of Bhaktivinoda Thakur. I just wish that I knew which book it came from and which page. I wanted to send the quotes to my

friends.

 

I want to help the 4,000 homeless people living within ten miles of my local

ISKCON Temple. But I don't know how as they are now focusing their food

relief efforts on selling food to college students on the local college campus.

 

As an astrologer I was particularly impressed with how they are doing anna-dana, vidya-dana, and kanya-dana which are the three "cure-alls" for bad karma that we cannot mitigate with our chanting i.e. offenses and curses

we bring upon ourselves for being neophytes and kanistha adhikaris.

 

His extensive quotes from Prabhupada were also appreciated in this regard.

I love it when good things happen to good people so I say "Cheers!", "Jaya!" and "Congratulations!" that this website is now the top Vedic site in the world with the most hits. I would like to encourage anyone who regularly posts here and appreciates this forum to check out that site and possibly

even send a donation to help with their prasadam distribution to the poor.

 

Good job!

[saidevo]

A situation is fast developing in India today (and the cause is the politicians and their greed for power and wealth) that bright and talented Indians, if they belong to the so-called forward castes can no longer even persue their higher studies (let alone work) in India.

 

Among other considerations, the exchange difference of the currencies of India and the western countries is a main reason that propels Indians to work abroad, even risking treatment as second-rate citizens. If the Indian rupee is as strong as the dollar or the euro, and if talent and merit are respected in India, I don't think that our youth might think of working abroad, because all those material comforts are now available in every Indian city.

 

It is my dream that patriotic, talented and powerful young people take over the reigns of our democracy and restore the ancient culture and glory of Bharat. I sincerely wish and pray that this dream comes true in the next decade or so.

[Guest guest]

Devo,

 

You're right. Being a forward caste member in Indian is a huge disadvantage.

 

 

A situation is fast developing in India today (and the cause is the politicians and their greed for power and wealth) that bright and talented Indians, if they belong to the so-called forward castes can no longer even persue their higher studies (let alone work) in India.

 

Among other considerations, the exchange difference of the currencies of India and the western countries is a main reason that propels Indians to work abroad, even risking treatment as second-rate citizens. If the Indian rupee is as strong as the dollar or the euro, and if talent and merit are respected in India, I don't think that our youth might think of working abroad, because all those material comforts are now available in every Indian city.

 

It is my dream that patriotic, talented and powerful young people take over the reigns of our democracy and restore the ancient culture and glory of Bharat. I sincerely wish and pray that this dream comes true in the next decade or so.

[Guest guest]

The best way to get involved in such programs is by getting in touch with your local ISKCON temple (except Bangalore). Most of them are already involved in such activities and you can support them by sponsoring some of the costs.

 

 

I was totally impressed by the website of the Bhaktivedanta Ashram. I stayed up all night reading about it.

 

Especially I liked the article about "Food for Death". I think it should be required reading for everyone who has any noble sentiments left in this

Dark Age of Kali.

 

I also appreciated the quotes of Bhaktivinoda Thakur. I just wish that I knew which book it came from and which page. I wanted to send the quotes to my

friends.

 

I want to help the 4,000 homeless people living within ten miles of my local

ISKCON Temple. But I don't know how as they are now focusing their food

relief efforts on selling food to college students on the local college campus.

 

As an astrologer I was particularly impressed with how they are doing anna-dana, vidya-dana, and kanya-dana which are the three "cure-alls" for bad karma that we cannot mitigate with our chanting i.e. offenses and curses

we bring upon ourselves for being neophytes and kanistha adhikaris.

 

His extensive quotes from Prabhupada were also appreciated in this regard.

I love it when good things happen to good people so I say "Cheers!", "Jaya!" and "Congratulations!" that this website is now the top Vedic site in the world with the most hits. I would like to encourage anyone who regularly posts here and appreciates this forum to check out that site and possibly

even send a donation to help with their prasadam distribution to the poor.

 

Good job!

[Guest guest]

The reason why alot of westerners go to not only India, but other eastern countries as well, is for associating with people of a their particular religious inclination who are renowned for having attaining great heights on that path.

 

Alot of westerners who are into yoga and Indian forms of meditation will go to India to find sanga in that. There are so many ashrams and gurus in India of all kinds and they wish to explore that, as in the west the number of ashrams and gurus are limited and small by comparison. Alot of westerners who go to India are already connected to a specific guru or ashram and decide to go to India to meet that guru in person or live with them for some time.

 

Similarly you find westerners going to other countries like Egypt or wherever for the same, although on a different path, such as Sufism or Islam or whatever.

 

Basically it's for the sadhu sanga. Coz on an external level, India is ANYTHING but peaceful.

 

Not all Indians who go to the West desire to return to India. They are quite happy in the West where there is a strong civic sense and infrastructure, in addition to the many mandirs, mosques and religious communities and cultural centers where they can associate with people of similar backgrounds and culture and at the same time live in a clean and efficient environment.

[krishnadasa]

It's the bloody educational system which Brits brought to replace the Indian Vedic gurukul. This education system really sucks, its out to make everyone equal, true, everyone as perfect sudra class.

 

This trend (going to west) has been seen happenin only in recent 25 years , else in olden days , i remember how my grand parents used to get away from Mlecha culture. I see its only the education system which potrays the the Westeners (Whites) are high and Vedic is low (they say its non -scientific).

 

If we bring the |vedic eductaion| back then again the true India will be shown to the world. well thats stilll a dream and cant be done in near future. Or until all the westeners like you know the hollowness of thier culture / imperfect educational system

 

Hari Hari bol

[saidevo]

 

It's the bloody educational system which Brits brought to replace the Indian Vedic gurukul. This education system really sucks, its out to make everyone equal, true, everyone as perfect sudra class.

...

 

If we bring the |vedic eductaion| back then again the true India will be shown to the world. well thats stilll a dream and cant be done in near future. Or until all the westeners like you know the hollowness of thier culture / imperfect educational system...

 

There are several Hindu schools but they can't teach our religious and cultural values because they need to use the government syllabus for the curriculam. Again there are Hindu ashram-originated schools such as the Chinmaya mission, DAV, Sathya Sai schools and other residential schools, but how many of us do send our children to those schools?

 

I think the solution lies in teaching our values in addition the school or college curriculam. As a swamiji said in a recent Hindu conference in USA, family is the first school. Hindu parents who don't expose their children to our religious values are the first sinners against Hinduism.

 

The Internet is ubiquitous in today's world, and is increasingly being used by our kids and youth in India. It would be ideal if some of our religious institutions unite to create a Hindu Web University, recruit people (not just students) who have faith in Hinduism and train them on a syllabus that suits the modern world. The financial needs for such an effort might be met our patriotic and religious NRIs and resident Indians.

[Guest guest]

Has India not changed it's educational system since the British left? The Brits certainly have adapted and changed their own. So much time has passed between then and now - who is to blame if India's educational system has not evolved, if not Indians themselves.

 

There's only so much time an individual can devote towards blaming others for their sorry lot in life. If one does not take responsibility and do something about it, Ishwar in the form of Time will come and swallow them up.

 

I'm not very familiar with the British way of education, but I have no complaints about my own. My only regret is that I did not apply myself more to it.

 

I had some really cool teachers who encouraged independent, analytical thinking and creativity. Does this not happen in India?

 

I've noticed alot of emphasis on memorization skills amongst Indian kids. Are they not encouraged to comprehend, digest and analyze? What about independent thinking?

 

On the other I have seen that Indian kids go farther into math in primary and secondary school than we do in America. This could be seen as a positive thing and a solid foundation for advanced science and computer studies later on in life.

 

Tons of Indian computer engineers in America. We have the idea that the computer departments of Indian universities are better than ours. Is it true?

 

Anyway, there's good and bad everywhere.

 

I just focus on the best of wherever I go. In India I focus on sadhu sanga and the beautiful aspects of that country/culture. And here I focus again on sadhu sanga and the beautiful aspects of this country/culture that I grew up in with alot of love, openness and friendship around me.

 

If I focused on the bad aspects of Indian society and culture when I go there, then I could never go back. I if I focused on the bad aspects of this country, then I could never live here. I could never be happy anywhere on the planet.