The Science of Self Realization

[maran11]

My dearest respected friends,

 

For sometime I have been wandering aimlessly in the realm of spiritual world and scientific facts. After floating in a state of confusion and loss for a while I was fortunate to receive an e-mail from IndiaDivine regarding downloadable writings of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and others, including the full version of Bhagavad Gita. I downloaded them immediately and started reading a very fascinating article written by Michael Grant titled 'The Science of Self Realization'. His introduction to His Divine Grace captured my attention and I knew that this was the type of article I have been looking for some time. I am now studying the article like a research paper to get a better understanding of the teachings of His Divine Grace. While reading the first few pages I came across a few statements that I have doubt and would like to discuss on this board. I have quoted the parts of the article which I have doubts followed by my questions. With due respect to the writer, these questions are asked to seek greater knowledge of the teachings and not to undermine the teachings or belittle anyone. If my questions sound offensive, my sincere apologies because I don't know in what better way to ask. I seriously invite my respected learned friends on this board to participate in this discussion as I regard your comments with immense value to me and my faith in the teachings. Here are my doubts:

 

Page 5:

'If the Supreme Personality of Godhead is served, all other parts and parcels will be automatically satisfied'

 

My questions: Why does the Supreme Personality of Godhead need to be served when He is omnipotent and therefore capable of fulfilling all needs? Normally, one serves others who are in need and helpless.

 

Page 5:

'In the Bhagavad-gita, which is accepted by all authorities in transcendental science as the basis of all Vedic knowledge, we understand that not only human beings but all living entities are parts and parcels of God'

 

My question: The term 'all living entities' encompasses too many living creatures that include micro-organisms, viruses, tapeworms, nematodes, cyclops, corals etc. Are they all parts and parces of God? I find it difficult to accept this fact because some of the living entities do not seem to serve any purpose but merely harm humans, e.g. the e-coli bacterium.

 

Page 6:

'We must always remember that this particular form of human life is attained after an evolution of many millions of years in the cycle of transmigration of the spirit soul.'

 

My question: Does the term 'evolution' has the same meaning as the term used in science books, that is, life forms changed over long periods of time by natural selection? Has there been any serious study done to verify that the soul actually transmigrates from one body to another? Any references to such study?

 

Page 6:

'There are swine, dogs, camels, asses, and so on, whose economic necessities are just as important as ours, but the economic questions of these animals and others are solved under primitive conditions, whereas the human being is given all the facilities for leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature.'

 

My question: The laws of nature also brought sufferings to many, such as earthquakes, draught, floods, hurricane. How can we say that human being is given all facilities for leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature? There are many people suffering due to the laws of nature, even now due to flood in parts of Russia, Germany and China.

 

Page 6:

'Why is a man given a better chance to live than swine or other animals?'

 

My question: When we compare the starving children in Somalia and the dog lying on a couch after a sumptuous meal in an Englishman's house, it is difficult to accept the fact that life of humans is always better than animals. Some humans even do no have the freedom that the birds have. Other creatures, like the rattlesnake has the ability to sense variation of the earths's magnetic field and move to a safer location before an earthquake occurs. Humans don't have this ability. Any comments?

 

End of Page 6:

'The Bhagavad-gita very vividly describes how a spirit soul, by the laws of nature, takes his birth and gets a suitable body and sense organs for enjoying matter in the material world.'

 

My question: I have personally seen on TV one siamese twin born with her brain outside the skull and the other baby having a stumped arm. One of them died a few days later. How can one explain this and why the sense organs are sometimes not normal? I have seen even a large colony of tiny ants and bees having perfect body parts whereas one or two human baby is born deformed. These facts are real and hard to deny.

 

Page 8:

'Neither the scientists nor speculative philosophers have yet arrived at any conclusion concerning the cosmic situation. All they have done is posit different theories about it. Some of them say that the material world is real, others say that it is a dream, and yet others say that it is ever existing. In this way different views are held by mundane scholars, but the fact is that no mundane scientist or speculative philosopher has ever discovered the beginning of the cosmos or its limitations. No one can say when it began or how it floats in space. They theoretically propose some laws, like the law of gravitation, but actually they cannot put this law to practical use.'

 

My question: Understanding of the law of gravitation helped scientist to put satellites in orbits, hence allowing us to communicate and predict weather. Understanding the laws of thermodynamics has enabled engineers design power plants, refrigerations and air-conditioners. There are many other examples where scientists and engineers have put the laws of nature into practice. Isn't the last sentence above a sweeping statement undermining the works of scientists and engineers over centuries?

 

Page 18:

'Real advancement means knowing God. If we are lacking knowledge of God, we are not actually advanced. Many rascals deny the existence of God because if there is no God they can continue their sinful activities'

 

My question: Some people deny existence of God because fossil records of pre-historic life forms mislead people to believe that evolution has occurred, that is, life forms change on its own by natural selection and that each creature on this planet came into existence on their own without being created with a purpose. These fossil records provide evidence of many past transitional life forms. They are real and hard to deny their existence. There are also many natural phenomena such as plaques, earthquakes, flood, hurricane, snowstorms etc. that occur so often that people questions the existence of a divine power. Why would God want to confuse people? (I am surprised that His Divine Grace used the word 'rascals')

 

 

 

Page 18:

'It may be very nice for them to think that there is no God, but God will not die simply because we deny Him. God is there, and His administration is there. By His orders the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water flows, and the ocean abides by the tide. Thus everything functions under His order.' (pg. 18)

 

My question: The last sentences says that everthing functions under His order. Does this mean that earthquakes and other natural disasters are the order of God? It is difficult to understand why God would order such distasters that kill thousands of innocent people and even destroy places of worship. Why would God do this to innocent people, including children and helpless animals? (I sincerely hope someone will answer this as I regard the speaker of this sentence as a highly respected and learned individual and this part of the writing conveys a very important message to everyone)

 

 

'Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that now. If we could go on from there--you said that how you lived made a difference in your life after death, that there are natural laws that determine your next life. How does the process of transmigration work?

Srila Prabhupada: The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eyes. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence, and ego goes on working. So at the time of death this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the condition of the mind at the time of death, the minute spirit soul enters into the womb of a particular mother through the semen of a father and then the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be a human being, it may be a cat, a dog, or anything.'pg. 22

 

My question: The underlined portion says that the soul enters through the semen of the father. What I think His Divine Grace meant is that the soul enters the sperm of the father that later fertilizes the egg. But the semen contains millions of sperms that are already alive (up to 500 million in each ejaculation). Since the sperms are already alive, where did each sperm get the soul from? What about the egg, does it have a soul too since it is also alive? (I am sorry for asking such difficult questions, but I need the answers in order to build up my faith in the teachings of His Divine Grace).

 

 

'Mike Robinson: Are you saying that we were something else before this life?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.' Pg 22

 

My question: If we were somethings else less human in our previous life, say a dog, how can the soul transmigrate from dog to human when dogs don't pray or serve God the way humans do? Could this mean that only a human can take the body of another human in his next life? And that humans who reject God will be born as something less human or a less fortunate human but not an animal? Since anything less than human does not pray or serve God it's soul can only be re-born as something lower, say from dog to lizard, and a lizard's soul can enter into the body of something even lower, say a flatworm. In other words, once a soul enters a non-human body it can only go one way, that is further down the animal kingdom. But then, lower down, the number of offsprings produced is much higher that further up. For instance, a dog produces up to 8 puppies whereas a cod produces millions of offspring. Where do all the other souls come from? The numbers don't tie up. Has anyone done any detailed study on this topic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

>>My questions: Why does the Supreme Personality of Godhead need to be served when He is omnipotent and therefore capable of fulfilling all needs? Normally, one serves others who are in need and helpless.

 

But in this world, it is absurd to think one can love all living beings. If you try to love a ferocious tiger, for example, he will attack you. A poisonous snake may attack and bite you if you try to show it love. However, if you can love the Supreme Lord, that love will be distributed to all beings, and all can be happy. This is the true "love and affection theory." In that realm of love, if you have some love for tigers and bears, they will become calm and quiet. Our Rsis, great sages of the past, used to go to very dense forests and live there, and they were never attacked by tigers or other wild beasts. We have heard from our scriptures about examples of this, such as Agasta Rsi, Narada Rsi, Dhruva Maharaja, Prahlada Maharaja, and many others.

 

How will we get that love and affection for the Supreme Lord by which we can love all others? In Kali-yuga, the age of quarrel, the only process is to chant the holy name of the Lord and this can be done very easily. It may be chanted by anyone of any language; it can be chanted by those who speak English, Malaysian, Hindi, Sanskrit, Spanish, Chinese, and so on. Don't think that there are many gods or that God is divided into many fractions. There is one God. The Chinese may call out to that same Supreme Lord, the Christians may also, the Hindus also, and the Vaisnavas also. He is very beautiful, charming, powerful, and merciful, and He can come and play with you in any relationship. He is not formless, or without a shape. This idea is wrong.

 

Lord Jesus Christ said love God and love thy neighbour.We keep God in center then we will know what is true unconditional love.When you water roots of a plant all leaves are automatically satisfied and become happy.God is seated in everyone's heart.He is the cause of all causes.We are related to him with the ties of love.Although we have forgotten this truth about him he loves us more than we will ever know.

[bhaktajoy]

>>My question: The term 'all living entities' encompasses too many living creatures that include micro-organisms, viruses, tapeworms, nematodes, cyclops, corals etc. Are they all parts and parces of God? I find it difficult to accept this fact because some of the living entities do not seem to serve any purpose but merely harm humans, e.g. the e-coli bacterium.

 

I would say you get hard copy of Prabhupada's Gita and read it prayfully then all knowledge will be revealed to you.You won't understand in depth in a day or two.These kind of things take time.Anyway here is a simple article of how sparks of conciousness deviated from the supreme being.

 

 

The beginning of consciousness

 

Science might categorize the secret teachings as metaphysical, meaning "beyond the known laws and observations of physics." Religion might refer to them as mystical, meaning that they belong to a collection of thought considered too mysterious to consider or of dubious origin.

 

It’s interesting to note that the great religions have sects that know of and ascribe to some or all of the secret teachings. In Islam it would be the Sufis; in Judaism, the Kabbalists; in early Christianity, the Gnostics and later, from the Middle Ages through the Reformation to even modern times, the many Christian mystics.

 

Science, too, has had its adherents to concepts held by the secret teachings. Many quantum physicists have written about theories of life beyond the physically observable. Medicine has found that patients, who have been declared dead and later revived, have near-death experiences that confirm many of the concepts found in the secret teachings.

 

According to the secret teachings, the universe was not first created in matter, but existed prior to material creation in spirit. Imagine a consciousness similar to our own, except that this first consciousness was boundless, a Universal Consciousness. This is God. At some point, the Universal Consciousness desired to express itself. It began to conceive, to imagine, and express Its inner prompting. And so the creation began – light, sound ... eventually stars, galaxies, trees, and rivers. This point in creation is still prior to the physical creation of the universe that science records. This is a realm of thought; no physical forms exist, only thoughts in the consciousness of the Universe. The physical universe had not yet been created.

 

According to the secret teachings, there came a point in this creation where the Creator’s Consciousness desired to bring forth companions, creatures like unto Itself that would share in this expression of life. In order for the creatures to be more than creations, they had to possess individual consciousness and freedom, so that they could choose to be companions. Otherwise, they would only have been servants of the Original Consciousness. So within the One Universal Consciousness many individual points of consciousness were awakened and given freedom.

 

It’s important for us to realize that at this point in our existence we did not have physical bodies. All of what has just been described occurred within the Mind of God. Consequently, its "form" resembled that of thought rather than physical objects. In the very beginning we were individual points of consciousness within the one great Universal Consciousness.

 

At first we were quiet, our wills content to observe the wonders of the spiritual creation as they flowed from the Mind of God. In these early periods we were so much a part of the Creator’s Consciousness that we were one with It, virtually indistinguishable from It. However, it wasn’t long before some of us began to use our wills and express ourselves. At first, we simply imitated the Creator, but eventually we gained experience, and with experience came knowledge and confidence. Then, we truly began to create on our own, adding new dimensions to the spiritual creation, much like a second voice adds to a song by singing harmony with the main melody.

 

This was exactly why we had been created – to share in and contribute to the great expression of Life and to be Its companions. To fulfill this purpose we were created in the image of the Creator: consciousness with freedom, capable of conceiving, perceiving, and remembering; capable of communicating directly with the Creator and the other companions.

 

Consciousness and free will were the greatest qualities given any creation, but they came with equally great responsibility for their use or misuse. Of course, the all-knowing Universal One knew the potential dangers in giving beings complete freedom to do as they desired. However, the potential joy of sharing life with true companions, not servants, was deemed worth the risk. Therefore, each of these new free-willed beings would simply have to learn to take charge of themselves and to subdue harmful desires in order to live in harmony with the other companions and the Creator. To do otherwise would only bring chaos, suffering, and separation.

 

Unfortunately, chaos came. As we continued to use our godly powers, we became more fascinated with them. We began to focus more and more on our own creations and became less concerned with and attentive to their harmony with the Creator, with the Whole. The more we thought of just ourselves and our own desires with less regard for the Whole, the more self-centered we became, eventually perceiving ourselves as separate from the Whole.

 

Of course, this sense of separation was all in our minds, so to speak, because there really was no way we could exist outside of the Whole because everything was of spirit. It was more a result of our sustained focus of attention on ourselves and our self-interests that resulted in a heightened sense of a distinct and separate self.

 

This was the beginning of trouble. It led to a very long fall for us. A fall that eventually left us feeling alone and separated from the rest of life, even to the point that we, who were actually companions and co-creators with the Universal Creator, today come to think of ourselves as little more than dustlike creatures, descendants of apes and inhabitants of a planet on the outskirts of a typical galaxy in the endless and diverse universe.

 

This chaos occurred in spirit when no physical universe existed. To know ourselves and yet be one with the Whole was the ideal condition, but the centering of awareness on self alone resulted in a sense of separation from the Whole. The more we exercised our individual consciousness and free will for self-interest, self-gratification, self-glorification, and self-consciousness, the more we heightened our sense of self apart from the Whole.

 

The resulting loss of contact with the Source of our life and the purpose for our existence was the beginning of darkness and evil, which is ignorance. Without a clear sense of our relationship to the rest of life, many of us began to use free will in ways that were never meant to be. Others simply let themselves be carried along with the current of life, abdicating their free will to the will of others. In both cases, these were things that would make it very difficult for us to be companions to the Creator.

 

However, the Creator foresaw this potential and, prior to creating companions, It created a Universal Law: Whatever one did with its free will, it must experience. The law was not intended as punishment or retribution for offenses, but as a tool for education and enlightenment. Thus, as we used our freedom, we experienced the effects. In this we came to understand and learn.

 

Interestingly, science and religion recognize this law. In science it is often stated, "For every action there is a equal and opposing reaction." Its religious counterpart is, "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth"; "As you sow, so shall you reap"; and "As you do unto others, it will be done unto you." Even common knowledge expresses this principle in saying, "What goes around, comes around."

 

This is the law of karma, of cause and effect. It is the great teacher of the companions-to-be and it is an integral part of the secret teachings. Once this law was established, the Creator conceived and freed countless independent points of consciousness within Its own infinite consciousness and the companions came into being, each conscious and free. What a trembling wonder it must have been in those first moments!

 

Again, it’s important to realize that the companions were not physical bodies. They were like "ideas" in the mind of the Creator that were given freedom to be independently conscious. As they used their freedom, they developed into unique points of thought, feeling, desire, expression, and memory. Each was slightly different from the other by virtue of its different vantage point within the Universal Consciousness. Each companion had a spirit, mind, and a soul. Spirit is the essence of life. Remember the condition of the Creator before the creation; alive yet still. This is Spirit. It is the living stillness in the midst of activity. So often we identify life with motion, but the essence of life was there before the motion. Spirit is the essence of life.

 

Life in motion, or the power to move and shape ideas and even physical forms out of spirit, is mind. Mind is the sculptor, the builder who conceives, imagines, and shapes ideas out of the essence of life. Spirit is life; Mind is the power to use it.

 

Each of the companions had spirit and mind. As they used their life forces, they developed experiences, memories, desires, fears, etc. This caused them to become unique from one another – each having its own collection of experiences and aspirations; each its own story. This individual aspect of the companion is its soul. Soul is the sum total of all that the companion had done with its free-will consciousness. It’s the companion’s story, its complex of memories. All of the companions have spirit and mind, but each developed a unique soul, because each built a different collection of memories and experiences, resulting in different desires, hopes, and attitudes about life. Thus, spirit is the life force, mind is the power to use it, and soul is the being that develops. All are one in consciousness.

 

The division of consciousness

 

The creation then progressed from essence to thought, thought into thought-form, and from thought-form into particle-form or atomic-form; in other words, matter. There are many dimensions to life. One of these dimensions is the third dimension – physical form, as we know it today.

 

The companions, filled with their newfound consciousness and freedom, went out into the vast universe to experience life and to learn about themselves, the Creator, and their relationship to it. In their travels through the cosmos, some of the companions entered the three-dimensional influences of the planet Earth where they entered into physical form for the first time. Here they became so encapsulated in the physical that they began to identify themselves more with their form than with their consciousness. They began to think of themselves as physical entities rather than free, living consciousness. Incredibly, we began to think we were only terrestrial beings and our celestial origins began to be forgotten. Form was so substantial, so captivating that it was difficult to hold on to the more delicate reality of spirit-thoughts, pure point of consciousness in a Universal Consciousness.

 

To have an individual body was also the ultimate in self-identity, self-expression. It had the power of separating one from the Whole and the formless spirit-thoughts of higher dimensions.

 

Strong identification with the physical made the companions subject to the laws of Nature, and, of course, a part of Nature’s cycle was death. The body would come to life according to the laws of Nature, live for a time, and then die. In their original state, the companions were continually alive, but those that began to strongly identify with their physical bodies were now affected by death. Since they thought they were their bodies, they considered themselves dead when their bodies died.

 

This was a serious confusion, and when the companions who had not become involved in the material universe saw what had happened to the others, they decided to help those in the flesh regain their former state. However, it was not going to be easy.

 

In addition to the influences of the physical dimension, the souls were building reaction patterns (karmic patterns) with their willful activities in the physical universe. According to the universal law, these actions had to be met – properly met in the physical universe where they had been initiated. The more one acted in the physical dimension, the more one built debts that had to be met in the physical. Death changed nothing except those with karmic debts yet to pay had to pay them by incarnating into another physical body. The result of this was reincarnation.

 

Another effect of entering the physical dimension was the division of consciousness. According to the secret teachings, as an individual entered deeper into the physical, its consciousness separated into three divisions of awareness. Two of these divisions we acknowledge today: the conscious and subconscious. The first entails the physical realm where the human body required a three-dimensional consciousness to function. It has become the part of our consciousness we are most familiar with, what we have come to call the conscious mind. Many of us would consider it to actually be the "I" or "me" of ourselves. It is within this part of consciousness that we experience physical life, and our personalities are developed.

 

The second part of consciousness is shadowlike while one is incarnate in the physical dimension. It lives life as a shadow, always there, listening, watching, remembering, and only occasionally making its profound and sometimes frightening presence known. We have come to call this part of our consciousness the subconscious mind. From out of this area come dreams, intuitions, unseen motivations, and deepest memories.

 

 

 

According to many teachings, the subconscious is the realm of the soul that uses the conscious mind as a mechanism for manifesting in the physical plane through the five senses. Often the thoughts and interests of the conscious mind, combined with the desires of the body, become so strong and dominant that only its activities seem important and real; the subconscious seems illusionary and unrelated to outer life. But in truth, the real life is occurring in the subconscious.

 

The third area of the now divided consciousness is the most universal. It is the part we can perceive and commune with the Universal Consciousness. We have different names for it: the Collective Mind, the Universal Mind, the Collective Unconsciousness, and the Superconsciousness.

 

The more one’s attention moves into the conscious mind, the more narrow and limited the focus and awareness becomes. The more one moves toward the superconsciousness, the more one becomes aware of the Whole, the Universal Forces, the Creator.

 

It may be more difficult to perceive the infinite when one is grossly involved in the finite, but the Universal Consciousness and the potential for attuning oneself to It remains. Curiously, the access is through the inner consciousness of the incarnate individual and not outside of it, making it a very mysterious passage for a physical being.

 

In time, however, the companions trapped in the physical dimension could again become aware of the difference between terrestrial and celestial life. They could again come to know their original state and purpose, and regain their celestial birthright of companionship with the Creator. In time they could again come to realize that the conditions in their present physical life were the result of their free-will actions and choices before the present life.

 

If the companions trapped in the physical dimension could genuinely begin to believe that the physical cannot possibly be all there is to life, they could begin the long journey back from form to spirit, a very difficult journey. In many ways we, as human beings, are no longer spirit. Flesh has become very much a part of us, not just physically but mentally as well. Even when we are out of the body (through death, deep sleep, or some altered state such as meditation), bodily manifestation is still very much a part of us. Otherwise, there would certainly be no reincarnation. We would simply leave the physical dimension and never return.

 

The great paradox of humankind is that we are now both spirit and flesh. That’s like saying we are a combination of oil and water, two substances which do not combine. The mystical analogy would more properly be fire and water; these, too, don’t combine. How can anything be made up of two substances that are impossible to combine? Yet, such is the nature of humanity. We are constantly forced to reconcile the seemingly irreconcilable: mercy with justice, cooperation with independence, unity with diversity, tradition with change, feeling with thought, love with truth, and on and on.

 

The consequences of the division

 

In order to fully appreciate the secret teachings, we need to understand how the Universal law of cause and effect works. It’s easy to say that the experiences in one’s life are the result of past activities, but the forces of this law are greater than we may first imagine.

 

Every action, every thought, every idle word sets up reactions, according to the Universal law. When one thinks a thought, that thought makes an impression on the Universal Consciousness. Nothing is lost or done in secret. Everything is done within the Universal Consciousness, and the Whole is affected by it (as well as all others within the Whole).

 

This isn’t easy for us to believe, living in our own little worlds. Secret, private, alone, and separate are active words in our vocabulary. This is due to our current separation in consciousness from the Whole. In the higher realms of consciousness, there is no space. Things and people are not separate, but part of a Whole. All is actually One. All is within the Whole. By increasing the focus on self, we have created the illusion of a self separated from the rest of life, but it just isn’t so. Our individual actions and thoughts make an impact on the Mind of the Universal One (the Whole).

 

Thoughts are things. Thoughts are real.

 

Reactions to past thoughts and actions become our fate, destiny, and karma. An individual’s fate is simply the rebounding effects of previous choices remembered by its soul. The reason the effects of these previous choices often seem unfair to the conscious mind is because the personality doesn’t see beyond its own life for sources of current conditions.

 

As companions of God, we are free to live and choose and grow almost as we desire, but not without being subject to the Universal, Spiritual law. Through meeting our thoughts, actions, and words we learn to discern wisdom from folly, lasting strength from weakness, and true life from illusion. In turn we become more able to fulfill our ultimate purpose for existing: to be a companion to the Universal Creator. The law is actually a magnificent tool for perfect learning. It is completely impersonal – everyone experiences it equally and for the purpose of enlightenment.

 

The law of karma is not some fierce god in the sky keeping track of everything so that it can zap people when they least expect it. Most karmic reactions in fact come from the individual’s own deep memory of what it has done.

 

Karma has been described as memory. Karma is memory coming to consciousness again. What has occurred in the past is recalled and has an effect on the present. Now, the recollection may not surface to the conscious level; the personality may have no awareness of the memory, in fact. Yet, it exists at the deeper, soul level. Nevertheless, the soul sees through the same eyes as the personality and is reminded of its past use of free will and consciousness. Naturally, some of these memories will be compatible with the Universal and some will not. Memory is an important concept in understanding how the law of karma works.

 

As a soul draws closer to the Universal Mind, it becomes aware that some of its memories are not compatible with the Creator, and since its ultimate purpose for being is companionship with the Creator, it seeks out opportunities to resolve these incompatible memories.

 

Suppose a soul criticizes another soul among its peers and behind its back. As it becomes more aware of its true nature, it will recall this wrong and, because of its incompatibility with the Creator, will seek to correct it. Now, the resolution could take many forms. The soul might seek out an opportunity to work closely with the injured soul as a supporter, assistant, publicist, agent, or the like. Or perhaps it would seek to re-create the original scene – putting itself in a position to criticize the other soul again in front of the same peers. The test would be to see if the soul would choose not to criticize this time, even if it meant a certain loss of position for itself. Throughout all this the soul grows wiser and more compatible with the Creator.

 

If, however, a soul has gotten so far away from its true nature that it has no conscience, then the law of karma can become a formidable obstacle to any further free-will action. Such a soul becomes surrounded by its karma; everywhere it turns, it meets the terrible effects of its previous action and thoughts. Yet, even a soul who has gotten in this pathetic situation can return to perfection because there is no total condemnation from the Creator or the law. If the soul turns away from its self-centeredness and begins acting, reacting, thinking, and speaking like a companion to the Universe, then the law is just as perfect as it is with error; and the reactions begin to build and establish a new destiny for that soul.

 

Karma is memory. As one recalls or relives situations, one meets self again, and a new decision point or crossroads is presented to the soul. In life, "good" would be equated with compatible, harmonious actions and thoughts which consider the needs and desires of others along with self’s needs and desires. "Evil" would be equated with actions and thoughts that are motivated by a self-orientation that pays little or no attention to the needs and desires of others and the Whole. Metaphysically speaking, good results in oneness, and evil results in a sense of separation. Decisions in one’s life could be approached by evaluating which choices promote greater oneness and which promote separation.

 

One must meet every bit of one’s karma. However, there is a way that it can be modified, softened, even ameliorated. If a soul, knowing another soul has wronged it, forgives that soul and holds no lingering resentment – perhaps has even forgotten the wrong in the depths of its forgiveness and understanding – then it begins to take hold of the power of forgiveness. The more it forgives, the more it perceives and understands forgiveness. Then, when it approaches the Universal Consciousness and realizes it possesses memories that are incompatible with It, forgiveness is much more viable, removing the barrier of separation. The law is so precise (what one gives one receives; no exceptions) that if one begins having mercy on and forgiveness of others, one begins to receive mercy and forgiveness upon oneself. Unless, of course, one refuses to forgive oneself.

 

All has to be met. And yet, no soul is given more than it can bear to carry – this is the paradoxical blessing hidden in the limitations of time and space. A soul is given the time it needs to turn away from its selfish ways and, like the prodigal son, return home to a feast of joy and welcome from our Creator. Reincarnation is not a way to avoid judgment and responsibility; it is a way to allow the soul enough time to correct its mistakes and develop itself.

 

 

 

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

Origin of the Soul

 

Since time immemorial, man has inquired about the origin of the soul. In the thinking of many neophyte devotees the soul falls down from eternal pastimes with Krishna due to mundane envy. In this brief essay, Srila Sridhara Maharaja answers this most vital of all questions: "Who am I? Where have I come from?

 

Commentary

 

by Srila Bhaktirakshaka Sridhar Dev Goswami Maharaja

 

How does the soul first appear in this world? From what stage of spiritual existence does he fall into the material world?" This is a broad question, which requires some background information.

 

There are two classes of souls, jivas, who come into this world. One class comes from the spiritual Vaikuntha planets by the necessity of nitya-lila, the eternal pastimes of Krsna. Another comes by constitutional necessity.

 

The brahmajyoti, the nondifferentiated marginal plane, is the source of infinite jiva souls, atomic spiritual particles of nondifferentiated character. The rays of the Lord's transcendental body are known as the brahmajyoti, and a pencil of a ray of the brahmajyoti is the jiva. The jiva soul is an atom in that effulgence, and the brahmajyoti is a product of an infinite number of jiva atoms.

 

Generally, souls emanate from the brahmajyoti which is living and growing. Within the brahmajyoti, their equilibrium is somehow disturbed and movement begins. From nondifferentiation, differentiation begins. From a plain sheet of uniform consciousness, individual conscious units grow. And because the jiva is conscious it is endowed with free will. So, from the marginal position they choose either the side of exploitation or the side of dedication.

 

Krsna bhuli sei jiva anadi bahirmukha . Anadi means that which has no beginning. When we enter the land of exploitation, we come within the factor of time, space, and thought. And when we come to exploit, action and reaction begins in the negative land of loan. Although we strive to become masters, really we become losers.

 

Goloka and Vaikuntha servitors are also seen to be within the jurisdiction of the brahmanda, the material universe, but that is only a play, 1i1a. They come from that higher plane only to take part in the Lord,s pastimes and then return. The fallen souls come from the marginal position within the brahmajyoti and not from Vaikuntha.

 

The first position of a soul in the material world will be like that of Brahma the creator. Then his karma may take him to the body of a beast like a tiger where he is surrounded with a tigerish mentality, or to the body of a tree or creeper, where different impressions may surround him. In this way, one is involved in action and reaction. The case is complex; to analyze the details of the history of a particular atom is unnecessary. We are concerned with the general thing: how the transformation of the material conception springs from pure consciousness.

 

Matter is not independent of spirit. In the brahmajyoti we are equipoised in the marginal potency as an infinite number of pinpoints of spiritual rays, electrons of consciousness. Consciousness means endowed with free will, for without free will no consciousness can be conceived. An atomic pinpoint of consciousness has very meager free will, and by misuse of their free will some jivas have taken their chance in the material world. They refused to submit to the supreme authority; they wanted to dominate. So, with this germinal idea of domination, the jiva enters into the world of exploitation. In the Bhagavad-gita (7.27) it is stated:

 

 

iccha-dvesa samutthena

dvandva-mohena bharata

sarva-bhutani sammoham

sarge yanti parantapa

 

"Two principles in a crude form awaken in the jiva: hatred and desire. Then, gradually the soul comes down to mingle with the mundane world."

 

At first, sympathy and apathy develop in a crude form, just as when a sprout springs up with two leaves. And gradually these two things help us to dive deep into this mundane world. Upon retiring from the world of exploitation, the soul may return to his former position in the brahmajyoti as spirit. But, if the soul has gathered the tendency of dedication through his previous devotional activities, he does not stop there; he pierces through the brahmajyoti and goes towards Vaikuntha.

 

Why has the soul come to the world of exploitation" and not the world of dedication? That should be attributed to his innate nature, which is endowed with free will. It is a free choice. This is substantiated in the Bhagavad-gita (5. 14):

 

 

na kartrtvam na karmani

lokasya srjati prabhuh

na karma-phala-samyogam

svabhavas tu pravartate

 

"The soul is responsible for his entrance into the land of exploitation."

 

The responsibility is with the soul, otherwise, the Lord would be responsible for his distressed condition. But Krsna says that the soul's innate free will is responsible for his entanglement in the material world. The soul is conscious, and consciousness means endowed with freedom. Because the soul is atomic, his free will is imperfect and vulnerable. The result of that free choice is that some are coming into the material world, and some are going to the spiritual world. So, the responsibility is with the individual soul.

 

Once, an Indian political leader, Syamasundara Cakravarti, asked our spiritual master, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada, "Why has the Lord granted such freedom to the jiva ?" Prabhupada told him, ""You are fighting for freedom. Don't you know the value of freedom? Devoid of freedom, the soul is only matter." Freedom offers us the alternative to do right or wrong. Once, Gandhi told the British authorities, ""We want freedom."' They replied, "You are not fit to have self-government. When you are fit, we shall give it to you." But finally, he told them, "We want the freedom to do wrong." So, freedom does not guarantee only acting in the right way; freedom has its value independent of right and wrong.

 

Free will is only absolute with the Absolute Truth. Because we are finite" our free will is infinitesimal. The possibility of committing a mistake is there. Our first choice was to dominate" and so, gradually we have entered the world of domination. As a result of this first action, everything else has developed. So, in different ranks" the species have been divided" from the demigods down to the trees and stones. And watery bodies, gaseous bodies, anything that we find here has evolved in that way. The activating principle in any form of embryological development is the soul, and from the soul, everything has evolved."

 

______________________________

 

Additional information for our readers: (In the beginning of his reply to the question as to how the soul first appears in the material world, Srila Sridhar Maharaja mentions that this requires some background. Similiarly, before some of our readers can accept Srila Sridhar Maharaja's above statements as being important guidance for ISKCON in the matter of philosopy we would like to give some background information.

 

Shortly before departing from this world our spiritual master, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada instructed his disciples, that if they had any questions regarding philosophy they should approach his Godbrother, Srila B.R. Sridhar Maharaja. "For philosophy you may go to my Godbrother, Sridhar Maharaja at Navadwip.) This has been amply documented in "Our Affectionate Guardians."

 

 

[bhaktajoy]

www.Krishna.org will help.Articles are very informative.Most of them are lectures by his divine grace.

 

www.near-death.com to read near death experiences.

[transient]

Dear maran11,

 

It would be easier for you to appreciate the philosophy if you understand some basic concepts, to wit:

 

1. There are two kinds of energy: spirit and matter. The nature of the spirit is alive and the nature of matter is dead. The spiritual energy consists of individual spirit souls (individual persons) and whose number is static. The individual spirit soul has no beginning, middle or end. Matter in its unmanifested form are individual atoms. God is the source of these two energies and Himself is the Supreme Spirit Soul. God is compared to that of the sun globe and the individual living entities as the sun rays.

 

2. Our true identity is spirit soul not matter. We are not the body. The body is dead matter. It is the spirit soul who is alive and who makes the body appear to be alive. As soon as the spirit soul (the person) leaves, the body returns to its natural state, ie. it breaks down into individual atoms.

 

3. The individual spirit soul is dominated by nature. He is not the dominator. Therefore he has no independent existence just like the sun rays who depend its existence on the sun globe. He is always under the influence either by matter (material nature) or spirit (God).

 

4. Having no independent existence and being dominated, his natural function then is that of a servant. Being servant is a quality that is always there with the everyone. Although we try to play master (God) in the material world, we are defeated time and again and ultimately everyone is subjected to die.

 

5. God is the real master and it is our natural function to serve Him. However, God does not force anyone to render service to Him and He does not need anyone's service because He is self-sufficient. What God wants from us is our love. Because we are individual persons and God is also an individual person, there is relationship and there is reciprocation. Yes, there is also hatred and anger and the audacity to deny God's existence.

 

6. The perfection of our life is to reinstate ourselves back to our natural role as a loving servant of God. It is only in this condition where we can achieve perfect happiness, wisdom and eternality. All the inhabitants of the spiritual world (the Kingdom of God) are in this condition.

 

7. Because we are not loving God, we are born (and reborn perpetually) into this material world where everything has a beginning and an end and is not our real home. Here we struggle, suffer, subdued, confused and experience fleeting amount of material happiness and enjoyment. Here we are subjected to the very intricate and very exacting law of karma where everything we touches reacts and perpetually binds us to suffer or enjoy our every action.

 

With the above backdrop, it would be easier for you to understand as we dwell on your questions.

 

Why does the Supreme Personality of Godhead need to be served when He is omnipotent and therefore capable of fulfilling all needs? Normally, one serves others who are in need and helpless.

 

As stated, God does not need our service but He wants our love. A father wants his child to love him more than the service. God is the father of everyone.

 

The term 'all living entities' encompasses too many living creatures that include micro-organisms, viruses, tapeworms, nematodes, cyclops, corals etc. Are they all parts and parces of God? I find it difficult to accept this fact because some of the living entities do not seem to serve any purpose but merely harm humans, e.g. the e-coli bacterium.

 

The number of living entities is static. Does not increase nor decrease. However they are innumerable. Because of their volume, it is impossible to count all of them. In our universe, there are innumerable number of planetary systems and they are populated by different living entities. There are 8,400,000 species of life. The 400,000 are human species and we find only several of the species on earth. Outside our universe, there are innumerable number of other universes with innumerable number of galaxies and planetary systems which are populated by innumerable number of living entities.

 

So the spirit soul, because of his karma that binds him, sometimes goes upwards to live in the planets of the demigods or sometimes goes down to the abominable bodies of insects and microbes. However, in the perspective of eternity, the different bodily existences of the spirit soul is considered fleeting.

 

Does the term 'evolution' has the same meaning as the term used in science books, that is, life forms changed over long periods of time by natural selection? Has there been any serious study done to verify that the soul actually transmigrates from one body to another? Any references to such study?

 

The theory of evolution espoused by modern science is just that -- a theory and is a fallacy. The evolution referred to by Srila Bhaktivedanda Swami Prabhupada is the transmigration of the soul from one body to another. For example, the changing of bodies of the soul from microbes to human being. In the Srimad Bhagavatam, Third Canto Chapter 31, Lord Kapiladeva has vividly described the movement of the living entity from one body to another. However scriptural evidence is not very much appreciated by one who wants hard evidence. In this case there are many impirical works by different people from different disciplines which produced irrefutable evidence on reincarnation. One such work is by the hypnonist Helen Wambauch who hypnotized more than 10,000 people of their previous lives. Later she checked the places, names, events and objects described by her patients in their past lives to the actual places, names, events and objects and majority of those checked were confirmed to be true.

 

There were also many documented cases of people (mostly children) who remembered their past life and their past homes, places, relatives and friends were checked to be real. The American seer Edgar Cayce has also left a big body readings supporting the reality of reincarnation.

 

The laws of nature also brought sufferings to many, such as earthquakes, draught, floods, hurricane. How can we say that human being is given all facilities for leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature? There are many people suffering due to the laws of nature, even now due to flood in parts of Russia, Germany and China.

 

The sufferings brought by nature are natural consequences caused by the actions of the population. The human being is given all facilities to lead a comfortable life as compared to animals and other lower species. This is a fact. But a human being also suffer material discomfort because of his bad karma. Nothing wrong with that.

 

When we compare the starving children in Somalia and the dog lying on a couch after a sumptuous meal in an Englishman's house, it is difficult to accept the fact that life of humans is always better than animals. Some humans even do no have the freedom that the birds have. Other creatures, like the rattlesnake has the ability to sense variation of the earths's magnetic field and move to a safer location before an earthquake occurs. Humans don't have this ability. Any comments?

 

The starving children and the dog on a couch are both suffering from their previous karma. However the dog still acts like a dog and the starving child is still in a better situation because he has something that the dog (and other lower species) can never have -- the facility to know and to love God. We should stop seeing things just based on the bodily platform but consider the person's spiritual position.

 

I have personally seen on TV one siamese twin born with her brain outside the skull and the other baby having a stumped arm. One of them died a few days later. How can one explain this and why the sense organs are sometimes not normal? I have seen even a large colony of tiny ants and bees having perfect body parts whereas one or two human baby is born deformed. These facts are real and hard to deny.

 

"Here we are subjected to the very intricate and very exacting law of karma where everything we touches reacts and perpetually binds us to suffer or enjoy our every action."

 

Understanding of the law of gravitation helped scientist to put satellites in orbits, hence allowing us to communicate and predict weather. Understanding the laws of thermodynamics has enabled engineers design power plants, refrigerations and air-conditioners. There are many other examples where scientists and engineers have put the laws of nature into practice. Isn't the last sentence above a sweeping statement undermining the works of scientists and engineers over centuries?

 

That is correct that material science has brought many advancements in material comforts and material progress (of course they also brought many destructions). However they have not solved the real problem of man -- that he is suffering from birth, deseases, old age and death. Therefore all there achievements for material comfort is just a waste of time.

 

Some people deny existence of God because fossil records of pre-historic life forms mislead people to believe that evolution has occurred, that is, life forms change on its own by natural selection and that each creature on this planet came into existence on their own without being created with a purpose. These fossil records provide evidence of many past transitional life forms. They are real and hard to deny their existence. There are also many natural phenomena such as plaques, earthquakes, flood, hurricane, snowstorms etc. that occur so often that people questions the existence of a divine power. Why would God want to confuse people? (I am surprised that His Divine Grace used the word 'rascals')

 

We should understand how the law of karma works otherwise everything you see becomes confusing. The tradgedy of the ignorant is he always act like fool though he thinks he is very knowledgable. A person who deny God's existence is always a rascal.

 

The last sentences says that everthing functions under His order. Does this mean that earthquakes and other natural disasters are the order of God? It is difficult to understand why God would order such distasters that kill thousands of innocent people and even destroy places of worship. Why would God do this to innocent people, including children and helpless animals? (I sincerely hope someone will answer this as I regard the speaker of this sentence as a highly respected and learned individual and this part of the writing conveys a very important message to everyone)

 

"The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance." -- Sri Isopanishad, Invocation

 

This phenomenal world has been set into motion by God as a perfect unit and is equipped with all necessary paraphernalia for its development, maintenance and destruction as the case maybe. So it all depends on the living entities how they manage God's resources and God's resources will react accordingly. As far as "innocent children" dying, back to Karma 101.

 

The underlined portion says that the soul enters through the semen of the father. What I think His Divine Grace meant is that the soul enters the sperm of the father that later fertilizes the egg. But the semen contains millions of sperms that are already alive (up to 500 million in each ejaculation). Since the sperms are already alive, where did each sperm get the soul from? What about the egg, does it have a soul too since it is also alive? (I am sorry for asking such difficult questions, but I need the answers in order to build up my faith in the teachings of His Divine Grace).

 

The movement of the living entities is being managed by higher authorities and everyone is put in its proper place. There is no such thing as accident. You may want to go on studying all these things to its minutest detail to satisfy your curiosity and thirst for the truth and if you have the required intelligence and time and determination there is no doubt that your quest will lead you to appreciate the souvereignty and perfect workings of God on everything. The speculative process that you follow however, is dangerous because you may not have the required intelligence, time and determination to probe everything and this may just lead to your confusion and frustration. There is a better process however and this begins with a humble and sincere heart and a little bit of faith that God has the power to enlighten you and reveal Himself to you and answer your questions from within your heart. The mind is a big wasteland and to dwell in that place only brings thirst and hunger.

 

If we were somethings else less human in our previous life, say a dog, how can the soul transmigrate from dog to human when dogs don't pray or serve God the way humans do? Could this mean that only a human can take the body of another human in his next life? And that humans who reject God will be born as something less human or a less fortunate human but not an animal? Since anything less than human does not pray or serve God it's soul can only be re-born as something lower, say from dog to lizard, and a lizard's soul can enter into the body of something even lower, say a flatworm. In other words, once a soul enters a non-human body it can only go one way, that is further down the animal kingdom. But then, lower down, the number of offsprings produced is much higher that further up. For instance, a dog produces up to 8 puppies whereas a cod produces millions of offspring. Where do all the other souls come from? The numbers don't tie up. Has anyone done any detailed study on this topic?

 

An unfortunate person who misuses the human body transmigrates to lower species of life. The human body is very important because it is the springboard where a person can get out from the cycle of birth and death because he has the facility to develop his loving relationship with God. When one is born in the lower species of life, he doesn't have this facility. However there is no karmic reaction in the lower species of life. A dog cannot be reborn as a lizard. The evolution of the lower species of life is always going up until a person again takes another human form.

[Audarya lila]

Dear Maran 11,

 

Here is a quick reply to some of the questions you have posed. I hope they are helpful.

 

Page 5:

'If the Supreme Personality of Godhead is served, all other parts and parcels will be automatically satisfied'

 

My questions: Why does the Supreme Personality of Godhead need to be served when He is omnipotent and therefore capable of fulfilling all needs? Normally, one serves others who are in need and helpless.

 

 

Answer: This question can be answered in many ways. You are correct that God is omnipotent and is not in need. The general idea of service is to give. We may perceive the needs of individuals based on material circumstances but that is a very limited conception at best. Irregardless of that consideration, we serve others because it brings some satisfaction to ourselves - we feel more complete by helping others. The analogy givin in the quote you are questioning is that God is the source of everything and everyone and that by serving Him all others are automatically served. It is really a question of where to repose our serving tendency, which by the way, is inherent in our very nature. Whom shall we serve such that the most benefit for everyone is realized? The answer is God. Just like placing the water on the root of the tree nourishes the entire tree, similarly by engaging in loving service to God all others are served and benefited.

 

 

Page 5:

'In the Bhagavad-gita, which is accepted by all authorities in transcendental science as the basis of all Vedic knowledge, we understand that not only human beings but all living entities are parts and parcels of God'

 

My question: The term 'all living entities' encompasses too many living creatures that include micro-organisms, viruses, tapeworms, nematodes, cyclops, corals etc. Are they all parts and parces of God? I find it difficult to accept this fact because some of the living entities do not seem to serve any purpose but merely harm humans, e.g. the e-coli bacterium.

 

Answer: Living entities are spiritual and the body they inhabit is analogous to the clothes we wear which cover what we think of as 'ourselves'. What animates the world is consciousness - spirit. All forms of life have this consciousness in common. Where there is no spirit there is no life. In other words all forms of life are but vehicles within which the soul experiences the world and all are parts and parcels of God. You must remember that your perception of things is limited to your experience and hence your vision and understanding cannot be perfect. Therefore to judge that a bacterium has no purpose other than to harm humans is myopic at best. (besides e-coli has done much good for humans as well - it is not only responsible for disentery - it is the bacterium of choice for all types of genetic manipulations and cloning. It is a real pioneer in the field of molecular biology.

 

Page 6:

'We must always remember that this particular form of human life is attained after an evolution of many millions of years in the cycle of transmigration of the spirit soul.'

 

My question: Does the term 'evolution' has the same meaning as the term used in science books, that is, life forms changed over long periods of time by natural selection? Has there been any serious study done to verify that the soul actually transmigrates from one body to another? Any references to such study?

 

Answer: No. This term 'evolutio' has to do with evolution through the species not of the species - it refers to transmigration of the soul. Since the soul is beyond material means of measurement there cannot be any empirical evidence to support transmigration. We follow a descending process of knowledge. For support of the idea of transmigration please refer to Krsna's words in Bhagavad-gita in the second chapter. Therein he explains the very nature of being, the difference between matter and spirit, transmigration and many other things.

 

Page 6:

'There are swine, dogs, camels, asses, and so on, whose economic necessities are just as important as ours, but the economic questions of these animals and others are solved under primitive conditions, whereas the human being is given all the facilities for leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature.'

 

My question: The laws of nature also brought sufferings to many, such as earthquakes, draught, floods, hurricane. How can we say that human being is given all facilities for leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature? There are many people suffering due to the laws of nature, even now due to flood in parts of Russia, Germany and China.

 

Answer: The statement you are taking exception to is not meant to be absolute. It is the general case that human life affords one more facility for comfortable living. Natural disasters affect all living beings not just humans.

 

Page 6:

'Why is a man given a better chance to live than swine or other animals?'

 

My question: When we compare the starving children in Somalia and the dog lying on a couch after a sumptuous meal in an Englishman's house, it is difficult to accept the fact that life of humans is always better than animals. Some humans even do no have the freedom that the birds have. Other creatures, like the rattlesnake has the ability to sense variation of the earths's magnetic field and move to a safer location before an earthquake occurs. Humans don't have this ability. Any comments?

 

Comment: Human life, in general, affords one the ability to think and reason - but more importantly to love. One can always find exceptions – the statements you are finding problems with should be view as generalizations and not absolutes. In fact one can find so many examples of how animals have capabilities that are much greater than man’s – but, again, the real value of the human form is that it affords the soul a chance to worship God.

 

End of Page 6:

'The Bhagavad-gita very vividly describes how a spirit soul, by the laws of nature, takes his birth and gets a suitable body and sense organs for enjoying matter in the material world.'

 

My question: I have personally seen on TV one siamese twin born with her brain outside the skull and the other baby having a stumped arm. One of them died a few days later. How can one explain this and why the sense organs are sometimes not normal? I have seen even a large colony of tiny ants and bees having perfect body parts whereas one or two human baby is born deformed. These facts are real and hard to deny.

 

Answer: Genetic abnormalities are a fact of life. We could fill pages and pages of text with descriptions of various types of disease states based on genetics. We have a very good understanding of what these genetic disorders are and how they occur. It would be foolish to deny the obvious. You are asking the question – why? This is not an easy question and the answer will never be able to fully satisfy us because it is beyond our comprehension. Nonetheless, Krsna has explained in the Bhagavad Gita that we get a body based on our karma. The same question can be asked in so many different forms such as – why are some people born in poverty and others with a silver spoon in their mouths? Or why are some born in pious religious families and others in families of thieves and rogues? The simple answer is that life is eternal and didn’t begin with the beginning of whatever particular body is being inhabited by any particular spirit soul. Enjoyment and suffering are a result of our karma.

 

 

Page 8:

'Neither the scientists nor speculative philosophers have yet arrived at any conclusion concerning the cosmic situation. All they have done is posit different theories about it. Some of them say that the material world is real, others say that it is a dream, and yet others say that it is ever existing. In this way different views are held by mundane scholars, but the fact is that no mundane scientist or speculative philosopher has ever discovered the beginning of the cosmos or its limitations. No one can say when it began or how it floats in space. They theoretically propose some laws, like the law of gravitation, but actually they cannot put this law to practical use.'

 

My question: Understanding of the law of gravitation helped scientist to put satellites in orbits, hence allowing us to communicate and predict weather. Understanding the laws of thermodynamics has enabled engineers design power plants, refrigerations and air-conditioners. There are many other examples where scientists and engineers have put the laws of nature into practice. Isn't the last sentence above a sweeping statement undermining the works of scientists and engineers over centuries?

 

Answer: The thrust of the quote you are taking exception to is that science cannot solve the real problems of life – ie, death. We all have to die. Science is useful for manipulating matter and no one can deny that many wonderful things as well as disastrous things have come from scientific inquiry. The reality is though that the soul, and God are beyond the purview of the mind and senses and hence a different type of inquiry is necessary to gain access to knowledge of them.

 

Page 18:

'Real advancement means knowing God. If we are lacking knowledge of God, we are not actually advanced. Many rascals deny the existence of God because if there is no God they can continue their sinful activities'

 

My question: Some people deny existence of God because fossil records of pre-historic life forms mislead people to believe that evolution has occurred, that is, life forms change on its own by natural selection and that each creature on this planet came into existence on their own without being created with a purpose. These fossil records provide evidence of many past transitional life forms. They are real and hard to deny their existence. There are also many natural phenomena such as plaques, earthquakes, flood, hurricane, snowstorms etc. that occur so often that people questions the existence of a divine power. Why would God want to confuse people? (I am surprised that His Divine Grace used the word 'rascals')

 

Answer: Rascals is appropriate in the sense that leading thinkers with big brains and degrees mounted on their walls are misleading people and saying there is no God, or God is dead. The question of natural disasters is the same as why one is born deformed or diseased or underprivledged etc. The jist of it is that people think that a just and loving God would not create such a world with suffering and a lack of justice. Again, we are myopic at best. We do not have all the information and with that small amount of information we jump to faulty conclusions. We are eternal and we have been wandering in this material world since time immemorial. We are making decisions in this life that will determine future lives and we are suffering and enjoying the results of past activities.

 

 

 

Page 18:

'It may be very nice for them to think that there is no God, but God will not die simply because we deny Him. God is there, and His administration is there. By His orders the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water flows, and the ocean abides by the tide. Thus everything functions under His order.' (pg. 18)

 

My question: The last sentences says that everthing functions under His order. Does this mean that earthquakes and other natural disasters are the order of God? It is difficult to understand why God would order such distasters that kill thousands of innocent people and even destroy places of worship. Why would God do this to innocent people, including children and helpless animals? (I sincerely hope someone will answer this as I regard the speaker of this sentence as a highly respected and learned individual and this part of the writing conveys a very important message to everyone)

 

Answer: Same question as posed above two times. In reality we are not these bodies and none of us are innocent. The world comes into being and is dissolved. Living beings are born and die. The whole material phenomena is really a chance for conditioned souls like us to get out of the material pool and re-instated in our natural eternal position as servants of God in the spiritual kingdom. We identify ourselves with these bodies, but we are not these bodies. We are spirit souls. It is like a dream. When someone is asleep and dreaming you wake him up by shouting ‘wake up’. The wake up call for us comes in the form of the Lord’s Holy Name and in the form of the Vedic literatures.

 

 

'Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that now. If we could go on from there--you said that how you lived made a difference in your life after death, that there are natural laws that determine your next life. How does the process of transmigration work?

Srila Prabhupada: The process is very subtle. The spirit soul is invisible to our material eyes. It is atomic in size. After the destruction of the gross body, which is made up of the senses, blood, bone, fat, and so forth, the subtle body of mind, intelligence, and ego goes on working. So at the time of death this subtle body carries the small spirit soul to another gross body. The process is just like air carrying a fragrance. Nobody can see where this rose fragrance is coming from, but we know that it is being carried by the air. You cannot see how, but it is being done. Similarly, the process of transmigration of the soul is very subtle. According to the condition of the mind at the time of death, the minute spirit soul enters into the womb of a particular mother through the semen of a father and then the soul develops a particular type of body given by the mother. It may be a human being, it may be a cat, a dog, or anything.'pg. 22

 

My question: The underlined portion says that the soul enters through the semen of the father. What I think His Divine Grace meant is that the soul enters the sperm of the father that later fertilizes the egg. But the semen contains millions of sperms that are already alive (up to 500 million in each ejaculation). Since the sperms are already alive, where did each sperm get the soul from? What about the egg, does it have a soul too since it is also alive? (I am sorry for asking such difficult questions, but I need the answers in order to build up my faith in the teachings of His Divine Grace).

 

 

Answer: Just as God is unlimited, so too are his expansions. There are unlimited numbers of souls. The soul is eternal. Anything that is living has a soul – remember life means consciousness which is spiritual – not material.

 

 

'Mike Robinson: Are you saying that we were something else before this life?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.' Pg 22

 

My question: If we were somethings else less human in our previous life, say a dog, how can the soul transmigrate from dog to human when dogs don't pray or serve God the way humans do? Could this mean that only a human can take the body of another human in his next life? And that humans who reject God will be born as something less human or a less fortunate human but not an animal? Since anything less than human does not pray or serve God it's soul can only be re-born as something lower, say from dog to lizard, and a lizard's soul can enter into the body of something even lower, say a flatworm. In other words, once a soul enters a non-human body it can only go one way, that is further down the animal kingdom. But then, lower down, the number of offsprings produced is much higher that further up. For instance, a dog produces up to 8 puppies whereas a cod produces millions of offspring. Where do all the other souls come from? The numbers don't tie up. Has anyone done any detailed study on this topic?

 

Answer: Actually this was answered somewhat earlier in the question about evolution. Souls move through the species progressively until they reach a human form. Animals do not sin. They do not have the same facility of reason that the human does. A human can go up or down depending on how they choose to live their life. The more one knows, the more responsible one is for one’s actions. For instance, a small child may steal something. They are told that this is not proper and why it is not proper and from then on are expected to obey. The first offense is easily forgiven due to lack of knowledge. Once one knows, if they still act improperly, then the reaction is more severe. As far as trying to capture everything in your brain goes – I must tell you that it is a futile attempt. What can you know with your limited mind and senses? The real path to knowledge is through love and devotion. One name for God is Adhoksaja, which means inconceivable. It is impossible to gain a proper conception of God and bring him under control with our mind and senses. He can only be known through selfless acts of devotion. But as far as trying to count souls and reconcile the numbers – how will you do it? There are unlimited universes with unlimited planets and millions of life forms.

 

What we are all looking for is something that makes sense to us and for that, of course, we must rely on our experience and our intellect. We are meant to do so. But you should realize the limitations of such endeavors from the very beginning, otherwise it will only lead to frustration and atheism. Spiritual practices and spiritual experiences are not unreasonable but they are beyond the ability of reason and logic to understand completely. You are seeking after the unlimited with limited tools, that should be clearly understood. You are conscious and it is with conscious experience that spiritual life will become a reality for any practicioner.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

 

 

 

 

[maran11]

Dearest all,

 

Thank you very much for all your replies to my post. I am overwhelmed by the response (it came up to 20 pages!) I apologize for not responding immediately to your replies. Our internet access has been down for some time.

 

Here are my response/further questions:

 

 

Bhaktajoy: There is one God. The Chinese may call out to that same Supreme Lord, the Christians may also, the Hindus also, and the Vaisnavas also. He is very beautiful, charming, powerful, and merciful, and He can come and play with you in any relationship. He is not formless, or without a shape. This idea is wrong.

 

My question: According to Islamic belief, God (Allah) has no shape or form, Allah can't be seen, Allah is neither male nor female. This seems to contradict with Vedic teachings if God is said to have a form. Isn't there a real contradiction here? http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islam_beliefs.shtml

 

 

Bhaktajoy: 'The beginning of consciousness'

'According to the secret teachings, the universe was not first created in matter, but existed

prior to material creation in spirit. Imagine a consciousness similar to our own, except that

this first consciousness was boundless, a Universal Consciousness. This is God. At some

point, the Universal Consciousness desired to express itself. It began to conceive, to

imagine, and express Its inner prompting. And so the creation began - light, sound ...

eventually stars, galaxies, trees, and rivers.'

 

My question/comment: Thank you very much for the article. After reading it, I am sad that, probably due to my limited mind, I am unable, with an open heart and mind, to accept the description as being factual. Maybe, my brain is used to logic and reasoning because from childhood days I am used to see things around me, wondered why and find reasons for them. Certain things, however, remain as mysteries to me. These include, memory before birth and what happens after death. But the existence of a Universal Consciousness and Its sudden decision to 'express itself' sounds more like a fairy tale. Other parts of the story too sound fictitious, e.g. '….it wasn't long before some of us began to use our wills and express ourselves. At first, we simply imitated the Creator, but eventually we gained experience, and with experience came knowledge and confidence. Then, we truly began to create on our own, adding new dimensions to the spiritual creation, much like a second voice adds to a song by singing harmony with the main melody….'. I wonder if this is more acceptable to other people?

 

 

Transient: The number of living entities is static. Does not increase nor decrease. However they are innumerable. Because of their volume, it is impossible to count all of them. In our universe, there are innumerable number of planetary systems and they are populated by different living entities.

 

My question/comment: According to biblical literature, Adam and Eve were the first two humans created by God and they multiplied to produce others. Also, after the Great Flood only Noah's family survived who again multiplied and populated the earth. In fact, records show that the population of earth has been increasing. For instance, there were 1.6 billion people in 1950 and in the year 2000 there were 6 billion. Why do you say that the number of living entities is static? Can this statement be taken literally? Real life shows that every living entity multiplies, some producing hundreds or even thousands of offspring. Many human couples produce more than two offspring.

 

 

Transient: There are 8,400,000 species of life. The 400,000 are human species and we find only several of the species on earth. Outside our universe, there are innumerable number of other universes with innumerable number of galaxies and planetary systems which are populated by innumerable number of living entities.

 

My question/comment: If by 'species' we mean living entities that are able to inter-breed, then there is only one human species. What do you mean when you say there are several human species? Do you mean different races of people? Also you mentioned that in other planetary systems there are innumerable number of living entities. Is there any evidence to this effect? As I understand, scientists are still searching for life on other planets but have yet to succeed.

 

 

Transient: So the spirit soul, because of his karma that binds him, sometimes goes upwards to live in the planets of the demigods or sometimes goes down to the abominable bodies of insects and microbes. However, in the perspective of eternity, the different bodily existences of the spirit soul is considered fleeting.'

 

My question/comment: Who are demigods and are they real? I trust that the knowledge regarding existence of other planets with demigods is acquired from the Vedic literature. Has such knowledge been verified by observation or other means, or is it beyond the material sense and based on a belief? I will find it more convincing if there are some evidences one can examine for himself/herself.

 

 

 

Transient: The theory of evolution espoused by modern science is just that -- a theory and is a fallacy.

 

My question/comment: Evolution though a theory has many hard evidences that is available to anyone who is willing to examine. These evidences are very convincing indeed (e.g. 'Atlas of Prehistoric World' - Discovery Channel). The discovery of many fossils and bones of transitional nature shows that evolution is the only explanation for the change that has occurred over many years in our animal and plant kingdom. For instance, the archaeopteryx lithographica, displaying a distinct blend of major reptilian and avian characteristics and highly resembling the theropod reptiles of its time, is unquestionably a transitional form. Basilosaurus isis is the name given to a whale whose 40-million year old fossilized skeleton features a small pelvis with hind legs. The rhipidistians link the crossopterygian fishes to the icthyostegid amphibians through a clear temporal progression of vertebral and skull characteristics. Diarthrognathus sports both reptilian and mammalian jaw joints. Tetraceratops links the pelycosaurs to the therapsids (the pelycosaurs and therapsids are themselves reptile-mammal transitional forms). In fact, our canine tooth (one of the four pointed conical teeth located between the incisors and the premolars) show that we are descendents of carnivores. How can one say that evolution is a fallacy? Is this conclusion made after studying the theory and the evidences in detail? We should give ourselves equal opportunity to study all available knowledge and draw a conclusion based on what we understand or satisfies us. Examining matters that are beyond our understanding and logic could be just a waste of time, unless our intention is to discover things never before discovered by mankind.

 

 

 

Transient: However scriptural evidence is not very much appreciated by one who wants hard evidence. In this case there are many impirical works by different people from different disciplines which produced irrefutable evidence on reincarnation. One such work is by the hypnonist Helen Wambauch who hypnotized more than 10,000 people of their previous lives. Later she checked the places, names, events and objects described by her patients in their past lives to the actual places, names, events and objects and majority of those checked were confirmed to be true.

 

My question/comment: The research done on past lives is, indeed, very convincing. Your explanation sounds equally convincing. I don't have much comment on this but just to say that this is a real mystery to me.

 

 

Transient: The sufferings brought by nature are natural consequences caused by the actions of the population.

 

My question/comment: I find this difficult to accept because there many natural disasters that are not caused by humans, for example, earthquakes. If what you mean is the natural disaster arise due to their karma, then it is mind boggling why such disasters occur repeatedly in the same region and other countries, like England and Malaysia, are relatively free from natural disasters (e.g. earthquakes). Could it be possible that people born in these regions have good karma?

 

 

Transient: We should understand how the law of karma works otherwise everything you see becomes confusing. The tradgedy of the ignorant is he always act like fool though he thinks he is very knowledgable. A person who deny God's existence is always a rascal.

 

My question/comment: There are 350 million Buddhists worldwide http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/index.shtml and Buddhist do not believe in a personal creator God. Does this mean that they are all rascals? There could be some real thinkers and philosopher among them. I think it is unfair for one human to pass judgement onto another without examining the reasons behind the other person's assertion.

 

 

Transient: This phenomenal world has been set into motion by God as a perfect unit and is equipped with all necessary paraphernalia for its development, maintenance and destruction as the case maybe. So it all depends on the living entities how they manage God's resources and God's resources will react accordingly. As far as "innocent children" dying, back to Karma 101.

 

My question/comment: O.k. You said that innocent children suffer and die, probably in an earthquake, because of their bad karma. What about animals and other living creatures that die from natural disasters? Are they too subjected to the law of karma? If the karmic law is a fact, why is one made to suffer in his next life and not the present? Don't we punish our children immediately when they do something wrong? I don't think punishing one in his next life is good because he may not know what is the punishment for because very few people have memory of their previous life! (My apologies if the questions sound arrogant, but it is for the sake of a better understanding).

 

 

Transient: The movement of the living entities is being managed by higher authorities and everyone is put in its proper place. There is no such thing as accident. You may want to go on studying all these things to its minutest detail to satisfy your curiosity and thirst for the truth and if you have the required intelligence and time and determination there is no doubt that your quest will lead you to appreciate the souvereignty and perfect workings of God on everything. The speculative process that you follow however, is dangerous because you may not have the required intelligence, time and determination to probe everything and this may just lead to your confusion and frustration. There is a better process however and this begins with a humble and sincere heart and a little bit of faith that God has the power to enlighten you and reveal Himself to you and answer your questions from within your heart. The mind is a big wasteland and to dwell in that place only brings thirst and hunger.

 

My question/comment: There are far too many things in this world to learn that it is impossible for one to study all these in minute details in his life time. Leaving the earth without knowing as much as one could means that one's brief stay on this planet has been wasted. Science has made it possible to learn many things about the earth and the universe. Everyone should grab the opportunity to learn about the earth, the natural laws and the living entities before he/she goes because there may not be another chance. Frankly, I wish to be re-born as a normal human over and over again so that I can experience life in this material world forever. This may just be a blind wish!

 

 

 

Transient: An unfortunate person who misuses the human body transmigrates to lower species of life. The human body is very important because it is the springboard where a person can get out from the cycle of birth and death because he has the facility to develop his loving relationship with God. When one is born in the lower species of life, he doesn't have this facility. However there is no karmic reaction in the lower species of life. A dog cannot be reborn as a lizard. The evolution of the lower species of life is always going up until a person again takes another human form.

 

My question/comment: Since there is no karmic reaction in the lower species, how does the evolution of lower species go up? There must be some judgement made on the lower life so that it can be re-born as a higher life? If so, what could be the basis of such judgement, especially on microscopic life forms?

 

 

Audarya lila: We may perceive the needs of individuals based on material circumstances but that is a very limited conception at best. Irregardless of that consideration, we serve others because it brings some satisfaction to ourselves - we feel more complete by helping others.

 

My question/comment: Agree. Serving others without expecting anything in return is what I consider a true human virtue. One who serves others or God with the expectation of a better life or some other personal gain is plain selfishness. In the eyes of others, they appear good, but deep in their hearts they want something in return.

 

 

Audarya lila: Therefore to judge that a bacterium has no purpose other than to harm humans is myopic at best. (besides e-coli has done much good for humans as well - it is not only responsible for disentery - it is the bacterium of choice for all types of genetic manipulations and cloning. It is a real pioneer in the field of molecular biology.)

 

My question/comment: I quoted the e-coli bacterium just as an example. There are many other bacteria that are harmful or live in places where they never come in contact with humans (for instance, deep in the ground). It is difficult for one to accept the fact that every living entity (including those that we can't see) have been created with a purpose.

 

Audarya lila: The same question can be asked in so many different forms such as - why are some people born in poverty and others with a silver spoon in their mouths? Or why are some born in pious religious families and others in families of thieves and rogues? The simple answer is that life is eternal and didn't begin with the beginning of whatever particular body is being inhabited by any particular spirit soul. Enjoyment and suffering are a result of our karma.

 

My question/comment: There are two reasons why I find it difficult to accept the truth in the last statement. Firstly, when a person commits a hideous crime, say rape and murder, and escapes from the law, probably, due to lack of evidence, he is free as any other man. Due to his bad karma he may be re-born as something less in his next life, say a nematode or plankton. But, is there any explanation why God should punish him in his next life and not the present? Isn't it better to punish him in his present life so that he realizes his wrong doings? Can he remember his misdeeds if he is, say reborn as a toad or a peacock? The second reason is, there are infants born with birth defects and die a few hours after birth. This could be again due to bad karma. But then, they die at such a young age that they don't realize their defects and come to terms with the reality. Why don't God wait for the person to grow up and realize their defects, instead of 'withdrawing' their souls at such an early stage. Could the law of karma, in reality, be just a human imagination?

 

 

 

Audarya lila: What we are all looking for is something that makes sense to us and for that, of course, we must rely on our experience and our intellect. We are meant to do so. But you should realize the limitations of such endeavors from the very beginning, otherwise it will only lead to frustration and atheism. Spiritual practices and spiritual experiences are not unreasonable but they are beyond the ability of reason and logic to understand completely.You are seeking after the unlimited with limited tools, that should be clearly understood.You are conscious and it is with conscious experience that spiritual life will become a reality for any practicioner.

 

My question/comment: I understand that our experience and intellect are limited, and also that in seeking God, we are seeking the unlimited with limited tools. With limited tools, isn't it very difficult to understand things that are beyond the ability of reason and logic? Is the effort and time devoted worth understanding something beyond our ability to understand? Isn't it better to focus our life and effort on things that we can understand? There are far too many fascinating things on this planet to study and understand, such as the history of the world, people and places, animal and plant kingdom, solar system and space research and prehistoric life forms. Isn't it more worthwhile studying about our own home, earth, instead of what happens outside once we leave? Accepting the secret teachings, in my view, is just like leaving a small child in the only toy or candy store in town and to tell him to think about his father and where he is going after his visit to the store. If I were the child I will run around the store to see and learn as much as possible. Won't you?

[Avinash]

According to Islamic belief, God (Allah) has no shape or form, Allah can't be seen, Allah is neither male nor female. This seems to contradict with Vedic teachings if God is said to have a form. Isn't there a real contradiction here?

 

I have read entire Quran several times. Quran says that we can never imagine correctly what is Allah's form. That does not mean that He has no form. Of course, I agree that it also does not mean that Allah has form.

[transient]

Dear maran11,

 

In your initial post you said that you have been wandering aimlessly and floating in a state of confusion and loss by trying to figure out the realm of the spiritual world and scientific facts. Judging from your response to the people who have tried to help you, I'm afraid you will remain in that condition for some time more.

 

Your problem is your philosophy is "I don't accept any philosophy" and in effect you're very much confused. Even if faced with very convincing evidence and argument (empirical evidence of reincarnation), you still treat it as a mystery. You promoted some Biblical ideas, are you a follower of the Bible? You brought up some Islamic and Bhuddhist beliefs, are you a Muslim or Bhuddist believer? Of course you're not any one of these but you just try to bang ideas against each other. If it's the Bible guy who will bring the Adam and Eve beginning of the world idea to you, in all likelihood, you will respond, "Well, according the the Vedas..." (LOL).

 

Sorry, I'm not going to answer anymore any of your questions as I think you are hit hard by the disease of dry mental speculation. Maybe other people on the board can still help you. Good luck.

 

However for other people's benefit, I will respond to just one.

 

You said: "According to biblical literature, Adam and Eve were the first two humans created by God and they multiplied to produce others."

 

Let's see. Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden. Later they begot two sons, Abel and Cain to make it 4 humans. Cain killed Abel so 4 minus 1 should only have 3 humans at that point.

 

In Genesis 4:14, after Cain was cursed by God, Cain said: "And it shall come to pass that everyone that findeth me shall slay me." Who will find him that will slay him? Animals?

 

Genesis 4:15: And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

 

4:16: And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwell in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

 

READ THIS: 4:17: AND CAIN KNEW HIS WIFE, and she conceived and bare Enoch, and builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

 

How in the world could Cain marry someone if there were no other humans that existed at that point? How can he built a city if there were no large population that existed at that point?

 

People who promote and who accept the idea that Adam and Eve were the parent of all humans are all in ignorance and didn't read carefully or didn't read at all the book of Genesis.

[bhaktajoy]

>>My question: According to Islamic belief, God (Allah) has no shape or form, Allah can't be seen, Allah is neither male nor female. This seems to contradict with Vedic teachings if God is said to have a form. Isn't there a real contradiction here? http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/islam_beliefs.shtml

 

Brahman, Paramatma, and Bhagavan

 

By Jayadvaita Swami

 

 

Three stages of Truth, Absolute Truth

 

 

According to the Vedic literature, the Supreme, the Absolute Truth, is one, yet it can be understood in three progressive stages of realization.

 

 

FIRST STAGE

In the first stage, one realizes the Supreme as an all-pervading reality, beyond words, beyond the mind, beyond matter, beyond all dualities. We may call it the One, the White Light, the Absolute, God, the Force, or whatever. That Supreme, one sees, is all that truly exists. In the Vedic literature, that Supreme is called Brahman.

 

SECOND STAGE

In the second stage, one perceives that the Supreme is not only all-pervading but present within one's own heart. What is that greater source within from which we derive inspiration, intuition, inner guidance? By meditation one can realize that it is God, or the Supreme Absolute. The Vedic writings call this aspect of God the Paramatma, or Supersoul. The Vedic sages distinguish between the Supersoul and the small individual soul. Both reside within the heart, but one is infinite, the other infinitesimal. The soul, the tiny spark of consciousness within, is my true self. It is by nature eternal, blissful, wise. But it is small, and so it may get lost in illusion and entangled in material life. But the Supersoul, great and infinite, is ever beyond illusion. And so it is this Supersoul to whom the minute soul turns, realizing that Supersoul to be the Supreme.

 

THIRD STAGE

In the third stage, one realizes that the same Supreme Absolute, the same God, that pervades everything and resides within one's heart exists also as the supreme individual person. Just as I, the soul, that small spark of consciousness, exist as a person, a conscious individual, so too does the supreme consciousness, the Absolute. Just as I have thoughts, feelings, intentions, so does the Supreme. And just as I have specific qualities and activities, so again does the Supreme. The Supreme, in the personal feature, has all the attributes found in other living beings--but His are all infinite, unlimited, unrestricted by the conditions of matter. That Supreme, the Personality of Godhead, exists in His own realm, beyond all dualities and illusions. In the Vedic literature, this personal feature of the Absolute is called Bhagavan. The Vedic teachers illustrate these three stages of realization by an example. When we look all around us we see the sun by its all-pervading light, the sunshine. When we look up into the sky we see the source of that light, the sun planet, powerful and brilliant. And if we could somehow go to that planet we could meet the sun-god, the person who rules the sun. All of these three are the sun. Yet one who sees only the sunlight has yet to see the sun planet, and one who sees only the sunlight and sun planet has yet to meet the sun-god. In a similar way, one who realizes only Brahman has yet to realize the Paramatma, one who realizes the Paramatma has yet to realize Bhagavan, but one who has realized Bhagavan has attained full realization, for he knows all three features of the Absolute.

 

HOW DO YOU KNOW GOD IS A PERSON?

 

Some philosophers believe that God isn't a person. Since our bodies are perishable, full of ignorance and miserable, they conclude that God must have no such body, no such form. They correctly assume that God cannot be limited like us, but they incorrectly conclude that He must be formless. They prefer to think of God as an invisible force, the total universe, or some other sort of all-pervading truth.

 

 

But to restrict God from having a form is to impose another kind of limitation on an entity who is supposed to be unlimited. How can the source of all forms have no form? Why should an impersonal God give rise to anything, especially anything that has order and symmetry and so on? Denying the personal form of God betrays envy of Him. If God were impersonal, then we'd be greater than Him, because we'd have something He doesn't. But God is the source of all beings. Since we have forms, how can it be that He doesn't? If God isn't a person, then how can His sons be persons? The Bible also confirms that man is made in the image of God.

 

 

The Vedic scriptures tell us that one of the features of God is impersonal, but in His ultimate feature, He has a personal form that is eternal, full of bliss and knowledge. He is not just a person, but He is the Supreme Person. Although He is the oldest of all, He is always youthful; His transcendental body never ages. Parashara Muni, a great sage of ancient India, defined God as He who fully possesses six qualities in full: opulence, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. Each of us may have these qualities in part, but only God has them in full.

 

[Audarya lila]

Dear Maran 11,

 

Just a quick reply – no more time today. BTW, I have a different take than transient on you. Questioning is good and no one should be expected to simply agree to what scripture says without questioning and reasoning it out.

 

Audarya lila: Therefore to judge that a bacterium has no purpose other than to harm humans is myopic at best. (Besides e-coli has done much good for humans as well - it is not only responsible for dysentery - it is the bacterium of choice for all types of genetic manipulations and cloning. It is a real pioneer in the field of molecular biology.)

 

My question/comment: I quoted the e-coli bacterium just as an example. There are many other bacteria that are harmful or live in places where they never come in contact with humans (for instance, deep in the ground). It is difficult for one to accept the fact that every living entity (including those that we can't see) has been created with a purpose.

 

Audarya lila’s comment: the purpose of all life is to love and serve God; it is only due to ignorance that most don’t realize this. As far as the material creation goes – it is a chance for those of us who are defiant and are trying to be God instead of serving God to come to our senses and become truly free.

 

Audarya lila: The same question can be asked in so many different forms such as - why are some people born in poverty and others with a silver spoon in their mouths? Or why are some born in pious religious families and others in families of thieves and rogues? The simple answer is that life is eternal and didn't begin with the beginning of whatever particular body is being inhabited by any particular spirit soul. Enjoyment and suffering are a result of our karma.

 

My question/comment: There are two reasons why I find it difficult to accept the truth in the last statement. Firstly, when a person commits a hideous crime, say rape and murder, and escapes from the law, probably, due to lack of evidence, he is free as any other man. Due to his bad karma he may be re-born as something less in his next life, say a nematode or plankton. But, is there any explanation why God should punish him in his next life and not the present? Isn't it better to punish him in his present life so that he realizes his wrong doings? Can he remember his misdeeds if he is, say reborn as a toad or a peacock? The second reason is, there are infants born with birth defects and die a few hours after birth. This could be again due to bad karma. But then, they die at such a young age that they don't realize their defects and come to terms with the reality. Why doesn’t God wait for the person to grow up and realize their defects, instead of 'withdrawing' their souls at such an early stage? Could the law of karma, in reality, be just a human imagination?

 

Audarya lila’s comment: No, Karma is not created in the minds of humans. It is in the category of revealed truth – see Bhagavad-Gita and what Krsna has to say. Your basic complaint is that punishment should only be given to a living entity such that they understand why they are suffering. Even in our temporal lives this is not the case so why should you try to place this constraint upon the Lord? The most obvious example is in the case of children who cannot understand the logic behind constraints and punishments meted out by their parents yet are benefited by such in the long run. In terms of correction, there are negative impetuses such as punishments or threats of such as well as positive impetuses that bring joy and a desire to experience such again. As far as the Vedic revelation goes it is stated in the Srimad Bhagavatam that the living entity on the womb can remember all that has happened in their past 100 births and that they pray ardently to the Lord and exclaim that they will repent and live a progressive life of service. The birth process erases all memory of this and we start ‘fresh’ so to speak. All living entities have been wandering in the material world since time immemorial (it can’t be traced out) and have unlimited baggage in terms of karma they are carrying with them. The Vedas call the tendencies, likes dislikes etc. samskaras because these have been developed over countless lifetimes. It is something like rubbing a rock with a rope in the same spot over and over again. At first the rope will leave no mark, but over time it will eventually create a groove. In the same way we have developed certain tendencies over countless lifetimes of action and reaction. We are prone to make certain life choices based on these samskaras. You have a human life and a great opportunity to progress in terms of developing real love of God and you should take full advantage of that opportunity.

 

 

 

Audarya lila: What we are all looking for is something that makes sense to us and for that, of course, we must rely on our experience and our intellect. We are meant to do so. But you should realize the limitations of such endeavors from the very beginning, otherwise it will only lead to frustration and atheism. Spiritual practices and spiritual experiences are not unreasonable but they are beyond the ability of reason and logic to understand completely. You are seeking after the unlimited with limited tools, that should be clearly understood. You are conscious and it is with conscious experience that spiritual life will become a reality for any practitioner.

 

My question/comment: I understand that our experience and intellect are limited, and also that in seeking God, we are seeking the unlimited with limited tools. With limited tools, isn't it very difficult to understand things that are beyond the ability of reason and logic? Is the effort and time devoted worth understanding something beyond our ability to understand? Isn't it better to focus our life and effort on things that we can understand? There are far too many fascinating things on this planet to study and understand, such as the history of the world, people and places, animal and plant kingdom, solar system and space research and prehistoric life forms. Isn't it more worthwhile studying about our own home, earth, instead of what happens outside once we leave? Accepting the secret teachings, in my view, is just like leaving a small child in the only toy or candy store in town and to tell him to think about his father and where he is going after his visit to the store. If I were the child I will run around the store to see and learn as much as possible. Won't you?

 

Audarya lila’s comment: You misunderstood my point. Please read it again. I said that logic and reason are insufficient and will never lead to conclusive knowing – I did not say that it is beyond our capability to understand. We use language and symbols to communicate but it is lacking in terms of conveying that which is beyond words – words can give us a clue and point us in the right direction but they cannot give us realized knowledge. In the Bhagavad-Gita Krsna tells his student and friend Arjuna to try to learn the truth by approaching a genuine spiritual master and inquire submissively from him/her and render service unto him/her. Why? Krsna says that the genuine spiritual master can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth. In other words he/she has genuine spiritual experience not just book learning or a keen intellect. Because the spiritual master has life, spiritual life, he/she can give it to others. How is it given? Krsna says by submissive inquiry which means genuine inquiry not meant to challenge or show that the student has some actual experience, but genuine inquiry like ‘I have no real experience, please help me’. This is called honesty and humility and this is necessary for genuine growth in spirituality. The spiritual master will instruct a sincere student in the ways and means of obtaining experiential knowledge for him/herself. It is not that the absolute truth can be conveyed in terms of words and logic, but that the means of coming to conclusive truth and of knowing that which is unknown and unknowable can be conveyed. There is a means of knowing. Krsna told Arjuna that he can be known not by logic, reason, study of scripture, austerities, penance, charity etc. He told him that the only means of knowing him is by devotion – love. Give and you will get. To get fully one will have to give fully. Complete knowledge and conclusive truth only comes through completely giving of the self without expectation (as we agreed before) of return.

 

Your own home is in your heart, it is not external to you. Home is in loving connection with the center of all existence, Sri Krsna, Reality the beautiful. There can be no pursuit that compares to pursuit of that which brings lasting and eternal happiness. There are unlimited things with which to occupy our minds and hearts but they will never bring true happiness unless we understand the central origin of all – Krsna.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

 

[Guest guest]

how many of offspring do insects have?

[Guest guest]

Maybe you should explore the different translations of the Gita instead of relying on the most inaccurate. Secondly the Gita has many different messages at different levels of understanding. What is often discussed here is the very lowest level. Read into some of the schools of Indian Philosophy - Sue Hamilton's Very Short Introduction is a good place to begin and then use her bibliography to explore some more and the bibliographies of those books. After reading about each school of thought re-read the Gita and you will come to understand it a lot better.

Finally return to the questions that you have placed on this website... can you answer them? or was the source that created the question no longer relevant?

 

What is an apple?