The sat guru and the transcendental sound

[Guest guest]

* radha krsna is the goal of gaura vani

 

You do not understand. Goal gaura vani is Radha in vipralambha.

[Guest guest]

It is misinterprent - SBT, SBST, no understand Madhavendra Puri, Gaurakisora babaji, Gosvami and so on. You lost. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Yours guru thinks more quikly. Sambhoga it for deep neophits. I am have books SP, it is books write, in his ALL write. SP take way in top in mood Lalita devi as dasi Radha in Krisna lila, and Lalita devi as Radha in Gaura lila. Four principles, it is principles raganuga bhakti or varnasram for who materialists. Dasi Radha in Krisna lila it for neophits.

 

Prabhupada win, pay many. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Gouranga!! Gouranga!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Goura Hari! /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Therefore who have experiense Krisna lila, big experiense /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif, may go forewer it is more more high.

[raga]

 

You lost.

 

 

[Guest guest]

"rupanugas" /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif:)

[Guest guest]

They big devotee. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

 

Dandavat.

[anadi]

 

1.

Krsna came to learn the prema of Radha as Caitanya

2.

He was assisted by the sakhis that came as sakhas

He was assisted by Radha Herself as Gadhadara

3.

To taste the prema of Radha, Krsna BECAME Radha in His MOOD

4..

the sakhis are not in madhurya rasa with Radha

the sakhis serve radha

5.

ergo all the sakhis (that became sakhas) cannot be in conjugal love (madhurya rasa)

with Krsna when He is in the MOOD of Radha.

6.

and krsna came, with the purpose to be in the MOOD of Radha

7.

ergo the nadiya nagari bhava should be in the mood of servitude

but they pretend of being in madhurya rasa with

Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Krsna in the MOOD of Radha)

 

 

CONCLUSIONS

Nadiya nagari is not in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami,

So is not our line of Gaudya Math.

 

So, SB Svami Maharaja, who belongs to our Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti,

the only Math that use to award Bhaktivedanta title

is an omniscient person,

and he is RIGHT.

 

SB Narayana Gosvami who was a junior friend of SB Svami Maharaja

in the line of Rupa Gosvami also told me that in Gaura lila

there is only the mood of servitude.

 

I read the article, it is impressive,

Jiva prabhu is a good lawyer.

 

 

All my love for you dear raga.

 

I am biased,

being in a sampradaya means being biased.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

****While I apprecite your desire to express your devotional self, I find that in addition to the often very confusing English of your posts there is often no particular point in your posts. The entire post should focus on making a certain point while other bits of information should be included only inasmuch as they participate in making the point. Sometimes it happens that there are posts which present many many bits of information from here and there without making a specific point.

 

You give much gyana, it is simple bits of the not realized information.

 

***So, could you boil down the essence of your posting in one or two sentences? In other words, what is the exact idea you are trying to convey?

 

....These are the different stages of a pure devotees promotion to conjugal love in the service of Radha and Krsna in an intimate relationship with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

***MAIN THE PURPOSE IS NOT KRSNA LILA

 

....These are the different stages of a pure devotee’s promotion to conjugal love in the service of Radha and Krsna in an intimate relationship with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

service of Radha and Krsna in an intimate relationship with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

Take a complete context anadi.

 

***The simple fact that Kailasa is obviously obsessed with this particular subject matter speaks highly of his actual position, regardless of present realization or lack of it.

 

The simple fact that YOURS is obviously obsessed with this particular subject matter speaks highly of his actual position, regardless of present realization or lack of it.

 

***Sri Krsna (Sri is Radhika) come and show some of their pastimes in prakrita Vrindavan.

But who could understand , who could understand the glories of the parakiya rasa,

the glories of the love of the gopis?

 

Sri is Laksmi

 

***********

 

In the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika, verses 147 through 153, it is stated:

 

The pleasure potency of Sri Krisna formerly known as Vrndavanesvari is now

personified in the form of Sri Gadadhara Pandita in the pastimes of Lord

Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has pointed out that in the shape of Laksmi,

the pleasure potency of Krisna, she was formerly very dear to the Lord as

Syamasundara-vallabha.

 

The same Syamasundara-vallabha is now present as Gadadhara Pandita.

Formerly, as Lalita-sakhi, she was always devoted to Srimati Radharani. "

 

"Again Lord Caitanya joined the two into one. Caitanyakhyaа prakaцam adhunд. That one means Krisna in the ecstasy of Radha. Sometimes Krisna is in ecstasy of Radha. Sometimes Radha is in ecstasy of Krisna. This is going on. But the whole thing is Radha and Krisna means the one, the Supreme."

 

Gadadhara dasa is this dyuti, or luster. In the Gaura gannodesa dipika he is described to be the expansion potency of Srimati Radharani.

 

***Lalita Sakhi as Svarupa Damodara guided Sri Krisna as Caitanya in the moods

Of Srimati Radhika

 

Gadadhara Pandit as Radharani heads all devotees to internal energy. Svarupa Damodara as Lalita Sakhi is close girlfriend Radharani. Ramananda Ray as expansion Lalita Sakhi is close girlfriend Radharani in Gaura lila.

 

"Svarupa Damodara has been identified as Lalita devi, the second expansion of Radharani. However, the authoritative GGD of Kavi-karлapьra describes Svarupa Damodara as the same Visakha devi who serves the Lord in Goloka Vrndavana. Therefore it is to be understood that Sri Svarupa Damodara is a direct expansion of Radharani who helps the Lord experience the attitude of Radharani."

 

"The pleasure potency of Sri Krisna formerly known as Vrndavanesvari is now

personified in the form of Sri Gadadhara Pandita in the pastimes of Lord

Caitanya Mahaprabhu."

 

"The devotees headed by Gadadhara Pandita are to be considered incarnations of the internal potency of the Lord. They are confidential devotees engaged in the service of the Lord."

 

"The internal devotees or potencies are all eternal associates in the pastimes of the Lord. Only with them does the Lord advent to propound the sankirtana movement, only with them does the Lord taste the mellow of conjugal love, and only with them does He distribute this love of God to people in general."

[raga]

 

Nadiya nagari is not in the line of Srila Rupa Gosvami,

So is not our line of Gaudya Math.

 

 

Are you actually saying that both Gaudiya Math and Nadiya nagaris are not in the line of Rupa Gosvami? If you insist, I'll agree. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

 

I said it earlier already that those following the path of Gaura nagari bhava are not Rupanugas. However, this does not make them bogus rascals, sahajiyas and upstarts with fertile brains. They have a different angle of vision on Caitanya avatara. Narahari Sarakara (the one who waves the chamara in Bhaktivinoda's Gaura-arati song, remember?) and Locan Das Thakura were not sahajiyas or bogus persons. They were different.

 

 

 

SB Narayana Gosvami who was a junior friend of SB Svami Maharaja

in the line of Rupa Gosvami also told me that in Gaura lila

there is only the mood of servitude.

 

 

Yes, this is for those who are rupanuga. However, Saci Mata, Jagannatha Mishra and other elderly Navadvipa vasis have vatsalya bhava, and some have friendship bhava as well. Dasya bhava as kisora brahmins in Navadvipa is for the inner mental service of most of us who aspire to be rupanuga sadhakas, and it is the bhava we are to acquire at the time of sadhya as well. However, not all of Navadvipa are rupanugas. After all, if everyone was rupanuga, where would be the joy of variety? Imagine astakaliya-lila with only Radha, Krishna and the manjaris, no sakhis, no sakhas, no cows, no Yashoda Maiya, no Nanda Baba, no deers, only rupanuga manjaris. There is a place for everyone.

 

 

 

So, SB Svami Maharaja, who belongs to our Gaudiya Vedanta Samiti,

the only Math that use to award Bhaktivedanta title

is an omniscient person,

and he is RIGHT.

 

 

He got the title "Bhaktivedanta" from Sridhar Maharaja, that was already prior to his sannyasa.

 

Even using CAPITALS in your post does not change the facts.

 

[Guest guest]

**SB Narayana Gosvami who was a junior friend of SB Svami Maharaja

in the line of Rupa Gosvami also told me that in Gaura lila

there is only the mood of servitude.

 

Gaura lila it is eternal lila. Goloka is Krisna lila and Gaura lila as the same and different. See SBT.

[Guest guest]

**I said it earlier already that those following the path of Gaura nagari bhava are not Rupanugas.

 

Yes, and sahajiya too. I am love to you rag. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

**I said it earlier already that those following the path of Gaura nagari bhava are not Rupanugas.

 

He is do not understand, some citations. Lord Caitanya it is servant for big love "mathurya" rasa.

 

Direkt contakt is no possible. It is not veda samiti it is Srila Prabhupada, boys.

[raga]

 

**I said it earlier already that those following the path of Gaura nagari bhava are not Rupanugas.

 

Yes, and sahajiya too.

 

 

Are you saying that Narahari Sarakara and Locan Das Thakura are sahajiyas?

 

 

I am love to you rag.

 

 

But I have no Kailasa nagari bhava. Sorry.

[Guest guest]

**ergo the nadiya nagari bhava should be in the mood of servitude

but they pretend of being in madhurya rasa with

Caitanya Mahaprabhu (Krsna in the MOOD of Radha)

 

It his problems. You needs understands first. You thinks some, and write some of you think.

[Guest guest]

***Are you saying that Narahari Sarakara and Locan Das Thakura are sahajiyas?

 

No.

 

****But I have no Kailasa nagari bhava. Sorry.

 

Sorry and me Raga.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I am sorry Raga.

 

( Jagat Prabhu other hand be anger. )

[Guest guest]

Radha-dasi manjari followers of Srila Rupa Goswami [Rupa Manjari] are `generally` exclusively devoted to Sri Radhika as their Swamini in a mood identical to Her's at any given time. In fact Krsna looks at them to determine how She is feeling. Although so much like Her and very attractive to Krsna, they absolutely refuse to connect with Him amorously under any circumstances, even if both Radha and Krsna appear to desire it. (see `Lord Caitanya and Raganuga Bhakti` by Dr. OBL Kapoor)

 

Since Lord Caitanya appears as Srimati Radharani in deepest separation, that being Her most intense ecstasy, those feelings are the goal of Gaudiya Vaisnava Rupanuga followers. Those desirous of the closest intimacy with Him do not, however, use such an opportunity to try and connect personally with Sri Krsna, preferring to relate intimately only with Radha as confidential associates assisting in Her romantic relationship with Her Beloved. They use their sharing of Radha's inner moods to get closer to Her, not Him, in order to better serve Her by understanding Her feelings and emotional states as intimate supportive girlfriends.

 

Their only goal and highest pleasure is to unite Radha and Krsna -- they alone are witness to the Divine Couple's most intimate moments where not even Her own dearmost sakhis are permitted. Their purity is respected and admired by Lord Krsna as the greatest possible attainment, not even available to Him. He is always seeking their help in His desire to please Radha better.

 

This manjari-bhava is the greatest gift that Lord Caitanya has made available to us all, due to His appearance in Her mood. Still He remains Sri Krsna avatar and the usual connections are of course possible for those who may desire them, for whatever reasons. Such individual differences must be respected and even appreciated. In fact, Rupanugas are here to help everyone realize their divine aspirations, not only round up those similar to themselves.

 

To clarify, the most personal, intimate and intense relationship available to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Sri Radha-Krsna, through Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu is enabled by His Divine Grace Sri Gurudeva as direct service to the vipralambha [separation] mood of Sri Radhika; but always in subservience and not imitation of Her, respecting that Krsna belongs to Radha alone and only She can satisfy Him.

 

What is often misunderstood is that Krsna's greatest joy is to satisfy His Beloved Radha, but He is never capable of doing so fully. That's why He is defeated by the gopi's spontaneous love and what/Who gives bhakti it's/her potency. Krsna wants to experience exactly how Radhika feels so as to learn how He can become more pleasing to Her. His interests are never selfish, but always based on perfect love. So must our desire to share in Her moods be -- Love for the sake of Love.

[Guest guest]

Kailasa prabhu, we are only frustrated by our inablity to communicate on these deep topics with you in English. None of us are willing to, nor should we have to, learn Russian just to understand what you want to share with us.

 

I have seen your heart, and I like what I've seen. So it is with others, I believe, and that's what is so frustrating that we may appear angry at times. Please make the effort to learn this most common language in the world, including within ISKCON and on these forums. Jagat has already offered previously to help you. Why be angry at him now?

[anadi]

rasa is manifested in a relation.

 

between vishaya the object of love

and ashraya the container of love

 

In Caitanya lila

1. The OBJECT OF LOVE is Brajendra Nadana Sri Krsna, but NOT MANIFESTED

and in this connection Sri points on Srimati Radhika,

because Srimati Radhika is mula shakti tattva and

only in Dwaraka or vaikuntha is Radhika as Lakshmi .

2. The CONTAINER OF LOVE is Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna and

His inner most desire is to meet

Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna which is NOT MANIFESTED

 

3. So Krsna Himself is SEPARATED from the object of His love,

which is Brajendra Nadana Sri Krsna.

 

4. And now He is in the same desperate position as of Srimati Radhika, when she was

left in Vraja by that Krsna who promised to come back the day after tomorrow.

 

So Krsna wanted to taste His sweetness.

But the sweetest of all sweetness

is the sweetness of separation (vipralambha)

And so Krsna wanted to taste what Radhika tastes in separation of Him.

And Srimati Radhika gave Him Her mood, to taste that maha-bhava in separation

that she alone tastes.

This Krsna is called Caitanya and very magnanimous (audarya svarupa).

 

I) Srimati Radhika is NEVER in madhurya rasa with any sakhis or manjaris.

II) How could be a sadhaka or nitya parikara of the Lord

in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) with Krsna as Caitanya,

when He has the mood of Srimati Radhika?

 

From this point of view the pretending of gaura nagari of

being in MADHURYA RASA with krsna as caitanya is a concoction of the mind

and obviously apasiddhanta.

 

And because their philosophy is based on this fact

They are an apasampradaya.

 

 

Of course Gaura lila is eternal,

Krsna would be not the Supreme Enjoyer if He would have not find a

way of being drawn in the sweetest mood of mohana, divyonmada and udghurna

that Srimati Radhika tastes in vipralambha unanntojjvala rasa.

 

And He came (very magnanimous) to teach us how to attain this very unanntojjvala prema

the highest mood that the gopis taste in separation of Him.

This explain Sri Rupa Gosvami, who understood His innermost desire.

 

I don't know why but my feelings for you are not disturbed.

 

[raga]

 

From this point of view the pretending of gaura nagari of

being in madhurya-rasa with krsna as caitanya is a concoction of the mind

and obviously apasiddhanta.

 

And because their philosophy is based on this fact

They are an apasampradaya.

 

 

So you are saying that Narahari Sarakara and Locana Das Thakura are deviants and founders of an apasampradaya?

 

Not everyone sees Gaura like the (us) followers of Rupa Gosvamin do. Does that make them an apasampradaya? Sure, they are not in our sampradaya. But so are not the followers of Gauridas Pandit (Subala Sakha) who do bhajan in priya narma sakha bhava, nor are the people in Sri Sampradaya, Nimbarka Sampradaya and so forth. Does that make them deviant? No, just different. And they do not claim to be rupanuga either. Think about it.

 

I could go philosophical about the gopi's feelings during pastimes with reversed roles and so forth in relation to some sambhogecchamayi sakhis' occasional feelings for Krishna in the Caitanya avatara, but let us first try to understand that there are many genuine traditions which are different from each other.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I fully agree that respect should be shown to devotees no matter what lineage they are members of.

 

Krishna has chosen to reveal himself to different people in different ways, and we are all supposed to follow the maxim of "trnad api sunicena".

 

But some people who have NO DEEP PERSONAL REAIZATIONS THEMSELF are using the internet to make propaganda that their Samiti is a more exalted society than anyone elses society, and that their Guru is a more exalted Guru than anyone else's Guru.

 

Anadi said:

"SB Narayana Gosvami who was a junior friend of SB Svami Maharaja

in the line of Rupa Gosvami also told me that in Gaura lila

there is only the mood of servitude."

 

Perhaps your Guru never really said this, since it is such a very, very offensive and foolish thing you have written here. If devotees think like this, then maybe those devotees should be born agin in the body of innocent animals in Mayapura or Navadwipa such as frogs or butterflies. Animals don't spend their mental energy preaching bogus ideas, so I think you will attain a higher birth in your next life if you can be a frog or fish in the Ganga at Navadwipa.

 

 

[adreamgodus]

Beloved Children of Light...

 

We are blessed in the very thought

that with One Guruji, we have All!

 

Our Gurujis are not the body, nor

the path...these are only the

cups by which we partake of the

Divine Amitabha...

 

Maybe the great mystery is to learn

that the jeweled cup, no matter how

lovely, how golden, how pleasing,

is only a cage of our own Mind which

is indeed not the wine by which we

become imbued.

 

When we feel the Beloved, we feel

the Light, not the tamas of this

mortal clay.

 

The life of a sadhaka, i belive, is

to remember to forget memories.

 

i said only 3 posts, and here, is one more!

what a silly one to write about God.

 

smile.

 

 

[anadi]

Dear raga and unregisered guest

dandavat pranama

 

 

1.

They are deviant

not because they are

supposed to be in another mood,

but because they pretend to be in

a mood or rasa that Krsna as Caitanya

doesn't share with any of his parikars or sadhakas.

2.

According to our siddhanta

the other vaishnava sampradayas are not deviant, but the gaura nagaris are deviant.

3.

Brajendra Nandana Sri Krsna came as Caitanya

not to share conjugal love with his parikars

or sadhakas.

This is NOT GAURA VANI,

as gaura nagaris pretend.

4.

A corection is necessary:

all the SADHAKAS that come in Caitanya lila are in the mood of servitude.

That is what I meant when I said, that in Gaura lila, there is only the servitude mood.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

GAURA VANI is NOT to come in Caitanya lila and enjoy conjugal love.

Gaura vani is a pointer on Krsna lila in its intimate and sweetest aspect

5.

I am not against any sampradaya

because everybody worships the Lord according to his adhikara, and every vaisnava, brahmana and human beeing should be respected accordingly.

6.

We allways need a guru, a living guru which showers our soul with the transcendental sound. It should not be BV Narayana Gosvami Maharaja, and it should not be from Gaudya Vedanta Samiti, but it should be a sad rasika gura.

7.

Unfortunely not everybody can readily achieve this type of association, but to the given time when the sukriti will grow enough, it will be.

 

 

Guest:

"Animals don't spend their mental energy preaching BOGUS IDEAS, so I think you will attain a higher birth in your next life if you can be a frog or fish in the Ganga at Navadwipa."

 

Is this "trnad api sunicena"?

no, against bogus ideas, there is no room for trinad api sunicena.

 

I love you falks!

Gaurangaa!

 

 

 

 

[raga]

 

They are deviant

not because they are

supposed to be in another mood,

but because they pretend to be in

a mood or rasa that Krsna as Caitanya

doesn't share with any of his parikars or sadhakas.

 

 

Let me make this point for the umpteenth time: Narahari Sarakara and Locan Das Thakura wrote gaura nagari padas (songs). Also so did Vamsi das Babaji, you remember him? Were they deviant pretenders?

 

 

Here are some padas by Vamsidasji:

 

<center><font color=darkblue>kena giya chilama ganga-tire o nagari |

nayana kataksa bane gaura kaila mana churi ||

ami ekhana ki kari o nagari ki kari ||</font>

 

<font color=darkred>“O Nagari! How I repent having gone to the bank of Ganga.

Gaura cast a side long glance at me and stole my heart.

What shall I do now, O Nagari! What shall I do?”</font>

 

 

<font color=darkblue>bala go nagari gaura kallena ki ||

grha gela kula gela mana kela curi |

sajani! ekhana ami ki kari ||

nayana kone, kane kane gaura kallena ki |

ami je prana mari gaura kallena ki ||</font>

 

<font color=darkred>“Tell me O Nagari what Gaura has done to me,

He winked and whispered and did,

I do not know what to me.

O Sakhi! Now I know not what to do,

Life is running out of me.

O! What has Gaura done to me?”</font></center>

 

 

 

4.

A corection is necessary:

all the SADHAKAS that come in Caitanya lila are in the mood of servitude.

That is what I meant when I said, that in Gaura lila, there is only the servitude mood.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

 

Narottama says in his Prarthana:

 

gaurangera sangi gane nitya-siddha kori mane

se jaya brajendra-suta pasa

 

"One who understands the associates of Gauranga to be eternally liberated souls will attain the son of the king of Braja (Sri Krishna)."

 

There were many who played the part of a sadhaka but nevertheless had a prominently friendly relationship with Gauranga. If you read for instance Caitanya Caritamrita and the chapter when Mahaprabhu leaves from Puri, you'll notice this. Also if you study the Navadvipa-lila from Caitanya Bhagavata, you will inevitably notice this.

 

Can you give examples of people who are sadhakas in Gaura-lila?

 

 

 

Unfortunely not everybody can readily achieve this type of association, but to the given time when the sukriti will grow enough, it will be.

 

 

And by causeless kripa some of us got so much sukriti that we went flying through the Samiti, only to stop there for a brief moment, into higher association.