kailasa Posted September 6, 2002 Report Share Posted September 6, 2002 God enjoy made soul in material world anadi? It is divine plan? God enjoy made soul in material world anadi? It is perfect? God has sent soul in the material world anadi, it is fair? The god has created the material world at the desire? Or this desire of soul? Whether we here receive consequences of the acts or it is consequences of acts of the God? The god can not cancel the material world? Why He it does not do(make)? He does not want? He can not? He wants and can, but WE do not want, whether the truth? Whether the soul is eternal or in what that the moment she(it) arises? Whether can the soul being by a part of the God, anadi nothing to know about Him? The soul it sat cit ananda or it is simple impersonal sat? Impersonal sat becomes cit ananda during evolution in the material world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsaneladi Posted September 6, 2002 Report Share Posted September 6, 2002 While I respect your contribution, I dont understand it. Can you possibly clairfy this post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 Soul fall in material world for spiritual world. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif Soul it is sat cit ananda eternal. Relations with God eternal. Now they transform in material body, but sat present, cit present only all deform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 I think people here may be more receptive to your ideas. It looks like you are not going to convince anyone at Raganuga about people falling from the spiritual world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 **your ideas it is not me ideas it is you ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 **It looks like you are not going to convince anyone at Raganuga Raganuga? Where Raganuga? Am go for Raganuga , am take Raganuga, all glories to Raganuga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 **The ripe stage is the stage of pure loving devotion and the unripe stage is the stage of practice. you in ripe stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 **The ripe stage is the stage of pure loving devotion and the unripe stage is the stage of practice. you in ripe stage? At least I have become very ripe with this conversation. A few more posts and I may be overripe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 It is nice story abhout raganuga. It is unripe sraddha and top all this it is unripe dhyana. You know sastra wery well, you take many nice cualities (?). raganuga it is raganuga shi is not arise from readings (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2002 Report Share Posted September 7, 2002 I checked out the discourse at raga's site. This is a problem with semantics and understanding the difference between 'spirit' and 'matter'. The 'spiritual world' is a matter of perception. The enlightened soul is always in the 'spiritual world',he takes it with him, wherever he is that is 'the spiritual world'. The 'material world' is also a matter of perception,to one person visiting Vrndavana he may percieve the place as mundane with mundane activities of eating,sleeping , etc. To him without spiritual perception anywhere he is that is the material world,even in the Dhama. The realized soul may be in New Yawk city yet he percieves everything as the energy of god,he lives in the spiritual world wherever he is. So whether the jiva is originating in the material or spiritual world is irrelevant. The jiva is originating in from God. Your present position is best utilized by attempting to use your mind,body and facilities in the service of God,thereby making your existence factually in the spiritual world here and now. Arguing over the origin of the jiva is fruitless,the jiva is coming from god, That is what is neccesary to understand, you are able to be in the spiritual world anytime you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kailasa Posted September 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2002 beginningless - Because in the spiritual world there is no material time. In what time the soul was included here - beginningless, because the time is a category of the material world. There are two eternities material and spiritual. In material eternity of soul refer to as nitya baddha, in spiritual eternity of soul refer to as nitya siddha. In any case if the relation ARE ETERNAL. The material eternity is relative (anadi), but the spiritual eternity is absolute (sat-cit-ananda). From the point of view of material eternity the soul falls in her. Of the point of view of spiritual eternity the soul never falls. From the point of view of the spiritual world of soul do not fall, it is more exception, but did not correct. From the point of view of the material world, here all have fallen. "About your question: The Spirit Soul is certainly eternal and changeless; and the fall is superficial, just like the relation between father and son cannot be broken ever. Now we are simply in a phase of forgetfulness, and this forgetfulness is called Maya. There is a nice example in the waning of the moon. To use the moon appears to be changing, but in fact the moon is always the same. So as eternal servitors of Krishna--our constitutional position--we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall. Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, and we are constitutionally to be enjoyed by Him, and when we revive this constitutional position where is no more Maya. K.C. gives us the opportunity of rendering service to Krishna, and this service attitude only can replace us on our original position. Please therefore, continue to chant faithfully, and Krishna will reveal Himself, by His Causeless Mercy, and you will know everything automatically. I shall, of course always be ready and anxious to answer any question you have." "... The soul is a particle of consciousness. When she makes offence, turning away from service Krisna, she gets under authority maya. ..." Brahma samhita 44. The comment SBT ( Sri Caitanya Sarasvat Math ) "We search here for that have lost when participated in lilas Vaikuntha." Premapradipa. SBT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 there is no such thing as material time. Trying to define time perplexes even the greatest minds. To me time is a measurement of continuance. So in that understanding there is time in the spiritual realm. The inhabitants there are not affected by the passage of time,but there has to be time. Our source is God,sastric references state this conception of our origin in different ways,and a person with a particular level of spiritual awareness will have a particualar understanding. Regardless of how we got here,we are still here. Trying to figure out the particualar process of how and when and why,is not usefull. Accept the fact of God having the proper method of managing this world and our lives,it's not neccessary to fret over the exact cause of the jiva's position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Completely off-topic, but is this a picture of yourself, Shiva, that you have as your avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 How does one enter a dream?Is he really in the dream?He perceives himself as so.He experiences the different scenarios that arise there as real.He no longer is conscious of his reality outside his dream. When he awakens however he realizes he had just been dreaming and he was in his house all along. But while dreaming was he in the dream or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 that last post by unregistered was me,the one about time in a bottle,forgot to log in,sorry. Raga ,that of course is Dr.Evil ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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