Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 I would like answers to these two related thoughts. Scriptural refrences needed too. 1) Is the caste system intact in the spiritual world? 2) Since the relationship with the spiritual master is eternal. How does this play out in the spiritual world? Is it that an entity would never have a more confidential lila to play with the Lord than the one who was instrumental in liberating him from the material world? And how does this play out in the presence of the greatest authority who is God Himself? ethos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 1) The caste system (varna-ashrama dharma) is based on one's conditioning within the modes of material nature (tri-guna). The varna is one's material conditioning and the ashrama is the purifying element to transcend this conditioning. Since these modes do not influence or exist in the spiritual realm, there is no caste system there as found in the material world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 the caste system is not part of the vedic dharma,or order. It is a perverted remnant of the original varnashrama system. That original system was used to give structure and order in a society with a spiritual connection. Today the caste system is not based on qualification as the varnashrama system was, it is based on birth. This is a major cause of India's problems today. Unqualified people are given preference in education,business,religion,etc. This causes the society to be dependent on unqualified people to lead it. In the spiritual world varnashrama is present,vedic society is present in it's complete perfect form. It is not a hazy ,fuzzy place without distinctions and characteristics. It is a fully functioning society. When Krishna descended we could see the spirtual society present at the same time. The spiritual master is a transparent via medium for God. God is the spiritual master,and your relationship with God is eternal. The devotee who gives siksa or diksa may or may not have an eternal relationship with the disciple. That is dependent on the desire of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahak Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 The varnas and asramas are natural and not contrived, heads, arms, torsos and legs make up the society's body. the various names of the varnas have nothing to do weith the natural segments of society. Laborers work, farmers and merchants handle the money, society is run by the politicians and their troops, police and military, and the think tank members make policy. In this age, it is all polluted to produce what we see, but there is still no contrivance. Asramas are natural despiute the names of the segments as well. Students learn while awaiting activity that produces offspring, then marry, then get old, and then get way useless, and the asramas are also polluted in this age. There is no appointment to varnas and asramas, and the caste system refers to the unnaturaL APPOINTMENT. tHE CASTE system refers to british interpretation of the natural order of society they witnessed while they were depleting India of its resources to maintain the crown jewels (Ornaments stolen from the deities in India's temples). VAD and caste have no analogy whatsoever, one is natural and one is artificial. Butter is never margarine, and vise versa. Sanatana dharma is not VAD, but VAD understanding makes it easier to practice the eternal religious function of the jiva. haribol, ya, mahak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Ok, so that means you may not find an individual acting in the role of saint or ascetic in the spiritual worl?. Also, there are no ksytrias? There are only relationships of passive, servant, friend, parent or lover and not of heirarchy (unlike the caste system)? But there is also natural heirarchy in these relationships too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 the spiritual world is a vague term. It is described that there are different types of Loka,or planets or planes of existence considered to be 'the spiritual world'. The pastimes of Vrndavan exist within a vedic society,as do all the other lokas. while shastra may describe vraja in a certain way ,it is only to give a basic understanding of transcedental existence. It is not that in the highest level of goloka that the inhabitants live in some type of hallucinagenic existence,repeating the same things over and over unaware of anything beyond their small group of friends. that is a misconception,it stands to reason that the highest realm is varied otherwise it could not be described as the highest realm of ecstacy,without variation boredom would settle in. The shastra functions as a guide and manual for purification of consciousness enabling one to enter into a higher state of consciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxvvii Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 1) Is the caste system intact in the spiritual world? This is not a good question, so I answer it in my way. In modern people (such as you)'s mind, "varna system" has been a complicated & confusing problem. On one hand, class systems like varna is omnipresent. If someone said "I can abolish varna system", I would reply "Can you abolish heaven & hell then". On the other hand, equality is omnipresent, too, because there is nothing but ONE. It's dependent on your standpoint whether everthing is equal or not. Westerner's equality is fictitious as they are unable to completely realize it. An enlightened person looks at a learned and humble Braahmana, an outcast, even a cow, an elephant, or a dog with an equal eye. (5.18) When one perceives diverse variety of beings resting in One and spreading out from That alone, then one attains Brahman. (13.30) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 What about those Gopis husbands in the spiritual dimention (lila) called Bramanas. Krsna in His infinite wisdom obviously designs things to suite his own purpose to enhance his own fun and show to all other souls who follow, the difference between bhakti and bulldust. Seems like there is definately a varnasram system in Krsnas' world. But possibly for other reasons than we understand fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 I believe all questiosn are good ones. In response to anoteh response or to, it seems many of the informed readers respond in appreiation of their collected knowledge more than in sympathy to the question as asked. As an example, if you go back and read the answers to the question on this thread, little is directly linked to the question or explained in away to link it to other parts of the answers. It would seem to be much more helpful if those with deep scriptural knowlege could actually share it with the others by explaining things in a manner that is understandable and direct. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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