Come on! What Is Spiritual Life?

[theist]

Glad to see you are still here.You know this is a limited medium and we often misunderstand the energy behind the post.We all do that.

 

I don't know about the fall of the jiva.I do myself experience those same contradictory feelings for any given object.I find myself trying to acquire the very thing I want to renounce.Material consciousness means imbalanced.Always wavering from this side to that one, and then back again,like a pendulum(sp?too lazy to look it up).

 

I'm thinking that when we are steadied through loving attachment to Krsna and His service, that is spiritual life.The rest is either misdirected or mixed in some phase of sadhana.Anyway we have strayed from the one sentence idea.Which I still think is a good excercise.

 

Concerning disagreements here, they are ok and we can learn from them.I feel stiffled in an atmosphere where people are forced to go along to get along. Aparadha is all I feel I need to avoid saying or hearing.

 

There are so few souls in this world that share these interests that if we all don't hang together I'm lost.

 

Haribol ethos

[transient]

Haribol, this is Narada Muni speaking on Krishna's enemies:

 

SB 7.1.26: Therefore by enmity or by devotional service, by fear, by affection or by lusty desire--by all of these or any one of them--if a conditioned soul somehow or other concentrates his mind upon the Lord, the result is the same, for the Lord, because of His blissful position, is never affected by enmity or friendship.

 

27: Narada Muni continued: By devotional service one cannot achieve such intense absorption in thought of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as one can through enmity toward Him. That is my opinion.

 

So in these verses, we learned that yes it is possible to achieve the goal of life, achieve Krishna's association by means other than devotional service. Narada Muni even opined that enmity is better than devotional service because this results in a more intense absorption in thought on Krishna.

 

However in the present situation, even in India, I could not imagine how one can develop such high level of enmity or lust towards Krishna. I think it is doubly more difficult to achieve that than by developing love towards Him!

 

The bottom line however is this: developing an attitude of enmity or lust or by any other means other than bhakti to gain the favor of or purportedly as a form of service towards Krishna has not been encouraged by our sampradaya. The scriptures are awash with long discourses of the glories of devotional service and how we should look upon pure love of God as the ultimate goal of life.

 

My spiritual master has instructed me to chant a certain number of rounds Krishna's names everyday with the hope that I would eventually develop loving affection towards Krishna. I should have faith in his words and that should all I want to hear.

[ethos]

Here are two Lecture excerpts from the Vedabase.

 

In the first one, I would agree that love and service are equated. In the second, service is explained without love in a material context.

 

1st

Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture 2.2.5 L.A., Dec 2, 68

This life of spiritual execution cannot be hampered by any material condition. From Srimad-Bhagavatam we understand that sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokøaje [sB 1.2.6]. That is the highest type of religious performances by which one can achieve the perfection of loving God. Yato bhaktir adhoksaje. Bhakti means to offer transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord. Bhakti. Bhaj-dhatu sevaya(?). Bhaj. Bhaj-dhatu, it is a verb, bhaj. Bhaj means to render service just like servant renders service to the master, friend renders service to the friend, wife renders service to the husband, husband renders service to the wife. This service-rendering process is going on everywhere. Nobody is absolute that he does not render service to anyone. That is not possible. I have repeatedly explained that if somebody has no master to serve, he voluntarily accepts a cat or dog as his master to serve. The nice name is pet dog, but it is serving. The mother serves the child. So one who has no child, he takes the cat as her child and serves.

So the service mood is going on everywhere. But the highest perfection of service is when we learn to serve the Supreme Absolute Lord. That is called bhakti. And that bhakti execution of service to the Lord is ahaituki. Just like we have got some little examples. This mother is serving the child not with any expectation. She loves to serve the child. She wants to see the child is in comfort, the child does not feel any discomfiture. That is her pleasure. There is no reason why she is loving. That is natural. Similarly, when we invoke our natural love for God, that is the highest perfection of religious principle. Ahaituky apratihata. Apratihata means it cannot be checked by any material condition. Just like we want to chant Hare Krsna; this is service. This is the beginning of service, chanting the glories of the Lord, or praying the Lord, ?Hare, O the energy of the Lord, Krsna, O Lord, please engage me in Your service.? This is the prayer. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, repeatedly, ?Please engage me. Please engage me.? But God can give you many things. Whatever you want, He is giving. Ye yatha mam prapadyante. He can give you even salvation, but very rarely He gives you the chance of serving Him.

 

2nd

Srimad Bhagavatam Lecture 2.9.16, Tokyo, April 30, 72

So this service... Here in this material world, service means neither master or servant. Service means to the senses. That?s all. We are servant of our senses. We give service to the master?not to the master. I give service to the money?he pays me?not to the master. I have no love for the master. Here anyone goes to the office or goes to service, he does not... He has no business to give service to a certain man, but because he will pay, that means he gives to the, service to the money. And why he gives service to the money? Because it is required for my sense gratification. Therefore ultimately I give service to my senses. The so-called service to the society, friendship, love, country, nation?all bogus. I do service to my senses, sense gratification. That?s all. Therefore here service means service to my sensuous kama, lust. Kamadmam, kama. First of all I am lusty; therefore anyone who is not, who does not require money, he does not go to give service. So because I am lusty?I require some money to fulfill my lusty desires?I go to serve. So therefore kamadmam kati na katidha. And I give service to a man. If he proposes that ?I will give you $5,000. You go and kill that man,? oh, I will do immediately. I will go because I want money. As it happened. Even the president is killed. Why the president is killed? You can hire anyone and kill anyone, especially in Western countries. So I want money, so even something which I should not have done, if it is ordered, ?You do this. I will give you this money,? I will do because I want money. Without money I cannot satisfy my senses.

 

Now if service always accompanies the soul and can't be avoided, which is more fundamental, love or service? Isn't it usually conceived that a more fundamental thing is the more essential thing? Isn't it probable that love is advanced service?

 

Love can transcend rules and regulations, be spontaneous and unique and answer to no one or nothing but itself. I'm thinking now of Radharani criticizing Krsna with the bumblebee. Yet, can we ever philosophically let go of the service perspective? Isn't that the underbelly of existence (even for Radharani)? I think it is.

 

Therefore I must expound that spiritual life simply means "I am a servant of God."

 

Thanks for your comments transient and leyh.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps spiritual life, PROPERLY, can only be practised in a separated community in which ALL have the same belief system and <U>OBEY</U> all of its rules and regulations at all times? - posted by QUITTNER

[Guest guest]

brahma jijnAsA

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti

 

Dear Heart even that one sentence would

be too long...

 

maybe even the vibration of Om/AUm which

is the creation of life [may is be so

bold as to say life as Maya], would

miss the mark.

 

Life, depending on which life [or death],

would be between the A..U..M- at least

this is what the Sages say.

 

What is between the vibration is

truth...the sound, then, would be

maya.

 

So, what is the spritutal life?

 

That which is not seen, not heard, and not done, perhaps?

 

well dear, what do we say, in this case?

 

 

Om Shanti

[leyh]

Dear ethos:

 

You wrote:"Thanks for your comments transient and leyh." Thank you for serving with your words.I'm sure He won't forget your service.

[ethos]

Here is confirmation of this thread thesis-- A must read-- Very powerful!

 

Please see "There Is Only Spirit" under the Dialectic Spiritualism Highlights thread.

 

Knowledge is where you find it.

[ethos]

From Dialectic spiritualism:

 

Syamasundara dasa: Yet Schopenhauer felt that it is possible to crush egoism and desire by love and sympathy for others.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, without love, nothing can be sustained. If I do not love Krsna, I cannot surrender unto Him. A small child naturally surrenders unto his parents because there is love for the parents. The more you love, the more your surrender is perfect. When there is a lack of love, the mentality by which you can surrender will not develop. If you have some love for me, you will carry out my orders. there is no question of forcing one to surrender. the living entity is free to love or to reject. Without freedom, there cannot be love. Krsna consciousness means learning to love Krsna.

 

[ethos]

From Dialectic Spiritualism:

 

Hayagriva dasa: The emphasis in Spinoza is on intellectual knowledge of God through self-knowledge. He writes: “He who knows himself and knows his affections clearly and distinctly––and that with the accompaniment of the idea of God––is joyous, for he knows and loves God.” Through knowledge of the self, we can come to know something of God. In this way, man can be happy and love God. There is no mention of service, however.

Srila Prabhupada: Love means service. When a mother loves her child, she renders him service.

 

“Offering gifts in charity, accepting charitable gifts, revealing one’s mind in confidence, inquiring confidentially, accepting prasadam and offering prasadam are the six symptoms of love shared by one devotee and another.” (Sri Upadesamrta 4)

 

Love means giving to one’s beloved and also accepting some gift from him. Dadati pratigrhnati. Love means feeding one’s beloved and also taking food from him. It means disclosing one’s mind to him, and understanding his mind also. There are six reciprocal relationships in love. Love includes service.

[Bhaktavasya]

I agree with you 99%; "Always remember Krishna, (*His words, pastimes, his promise to his devotees)and never forget Him." The one sentence can be expanded on limitlessly. For example, praying (vandanam)to be able to remember *Krishna is a theme that comes up in the lives of Krishna's devotees, from Prahlad to Queen Kunti and in Narada Muni's case (in one lifetime)to be able to have direct darshan once again. The spiritual master gives the gift of reminding us how to pray and to Whom we are praying. A gentle order, requested with love.

 

 

[paul108]

Everyone is always chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.