Dialectic Spiritualism Highlights

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I am transcribing "Dialectic Spiritualism" for my own purposes. Below you will find highlights from that book. Check back for additions.

 

I would prefer that no replies be made. It will be a long enough thread without replies. These threads are simply provided for the benefit of those who might benefit from them.

 

Knowledge is where you find it. Hare Krsna!

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Sysmasundara dasa: Can we ever predict the movements of the life force?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it is moving in a variety of dresses, but its ultimate future is to return home, back to Godhead. But because the individual soul is acting unintelligently, he has to be kicked in the face very strongly by material nature. then he will come to his senses. That is his position. When he thinks intelligently, he realizes that it is his duty to serve Krsna instead of his own material body. In this material world, we see that everybody is trying to be happy, but everyone is constantly being frustrated. This is because material happiness ultimately means frustration. This is maya's way of kicking.

Syamasundara dasa: In any case, the life force will eventually return to Godhead?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, everyone will sooner or later. Some sooner, and some later.

Syamasundara dasa: But can we predict that the process of punishment will have some permanent effect? Many prisoners leave the prison, but some come back.

Srila Prabhupada: There is nothing permanent. Because we have a little independence, we have the freedom to misuse our independence again and return to the prison; otherwise there is no meaning to independence. Independence means that you can do what you like.

Hayagriva dasa: Can we forget Krsna eternally?

Srila Prabhupada: No, it is not possible. A son may be separated from his father, but it is not possible for him to forget his father eternally. Sometimes he remembers his father. The father is always remembering the son, and looking forward to the time when the son will obey his orders. So there is no question of forgetting perpetually.

Sysmasundara dasa: Becasue the living entity has independence, at one moment he may be liberated, and at another moment, conditioned?

Srila Prabhupada: Krsna has given you liberation. When you misuse your liberation, you become entrapped.

Sysmasundara dasa: But is this all predictable? Can we know it beforehand?

Srila Prabhupada: What is the use of all this predication? The prediction is that the living entity will be kicked, kicked, kicked, and kicked, until someday he will come to Krsna.

Sysmasundara dasa: So after falling down many times, the living entity will eventually come to Krsna and remain permanently. Is that right?

Srila Prabhupada: No, there is no question of permanence. Because the living entity has independence, he can misuse that independence and fall down again. a man is not permanently free just because he's relieased from prison. He can return to prison agian. There is no guarantee. This is what is meant by eternally conditioned. the living entities in the spiritual sky who are eternally liberated will never be conditioned because they never choose to misuse their independence. They are vey experienced.

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Syamasundara dasa: The mind also occupies space and works in time.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we are occupying space, and since the mind is within us, the mind also occupies space. From practical experience we can understand that the mind can immediately travel thousands of miles with no difficulties.

Syamasundara dasa: But is that distance within me, or does my mind actually travel there?

Srila Prabhupada: It travels. It actually occupies space. Unless it occupies space, how could it travel? It travels so fast that you can't exactly remember how it is going, but as soon as it reaches its destination, you can apprehend it. In any case, it occupies space.

Syamasundara dasa: The mind can leave the body and go somewhere?

Srila Prabhupada: Not leave. It is just like a shoot: it extends. At night, when we are dreaming, the subtle body also extends and comes back again. In fact, we may take the subtle bodies in dreams to be very important at the time.

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Sysmasundara dasa: Alexander felt that in the future, the race of man will evolve into super-conscious beings, into demigods.

Srila Prabhupada: No, we have no information of this. Why is he so anxious about the planet earth? These super-conscious beings are already existing on Siddha-loka, Gandharva-loka, and many other higher planets. there are millions of planets with supre-human beings. From the sastras we learn that the inhabitants of Siddha-loka can fly from one planet to another without the aid of a space vehicle.

Syamasundara dasa: Alexander proposes that nature develops bodies to that point.

Srila Prabhupada: No. Bodies never develop in that way. There are different types of bodies, and the soul takes shelter of a particular type, selecting bodies just as a person selects clothes in a store. When we are within a suit, the suit moves. Bodies are selected according to the soul's desires. By your karma, you get a particular type of body. We have already discussed this.

Sysmasundara dasa: Then demigods will not evolve on this planet in the natural course of things?

Srila Prabhupada: No.

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Syamasundara dasa: According to Alexander, on the mental level, we are capable of enjoying objects and receiving pleasure from them, but cannot understand them as they are. On the higher level, we can contemplate objects and understand them as they are, as well as enjoy them.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is our philosophy. A common man may see a rose and think, "Oh,, I will offer this nice flower to my girl friend." But when a devotee sees a rose, he thinks, "How wonderfully God's energy is acting!" he understands that it is through Krsna's energy that such a wonderful flower exists, and therefore he knows that the flower should be offered to Krsna. After all, since Krsna produced it, it is Krsna's property. After offering the rose to Krsna, the devotee smells it. Then it is prasadam, the Lord's mercy. This is higher consciousness. Lower consciousness thinks, "Let me pick it and enjoy it!" That is mere enjoyment without understanding. And animal eats just as man eats, but a man should have sufficiently developed consciousness to understand that what he is eating is given by Krsna.

The Vedas state: ?The Supreme Lord is supplying all neccessities of life to everyone.? (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13) When one understands that Krsna is supplying everything, he thinks, ?First, let me offer this to Krsna.? If evcerything is not offered in sacrifice to the Supreme Lord, we will be entangled. Higher consciousness is mature consciousness. It is like a flower that has blossomed and is emitting a fragrance. That full blossom of consciousness is Krsna consciousness.

Syamasundara dasa: Alexander believes that the entire world is moving to that point.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, nature is giving us the chance, but because we have independence, we may or may not take the opportunity.

Syamasundara dasa: Will only certain individuals attain that higher consciousness, or will the whole world attain it?

Srila Prabhupada: That is a nonsensical question. sometimes rascals inquire, "Swamaji, if everyone becomes God conscious and goes back to Godhead, then who will remain here?" What is the meaning of such a nonsensical question? Why is a fool anxious for everyone? Why is he not anxious for himself? It is the same to ask, ?If everyone is honest, then who will go to jail?? As if maintaining the jail is a very important business!

 

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Syamasundara dasa: During Alexander's day, people were very optimistic about man's future, thinking that everyone would be benefitted by scientific discoveries.

Srila Prabhupada: People think that by nature's way, they will be promoted, that once they ahve attained the status of man, they cannot be degraded. But if one can go up, he can also go down. The rich can become poor again. theosophists and others think that everything goes up, progresses. They don't even have the common sense to look around them.

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Syamasundara dasa: Alexander believes that lower organisms strive to emulate higher. Animals strive to become like men, and men strive to become like gods.

Srila Prabhupada: There is no question of striving. It is by nature's way that the lower animals come to the platform of men. The living entity evolves from one life form to another, but this is with the help of nature. This law holds, up to the human platform. Having developed cionsciousness, the human being has the power of discrimination. Originally, the soul is given independence. Krsna tells Arjuna, ?Whatever you like, you do.? (Bg. 18.63) God is the supersoul, and we are the jiva souls subordinate to Him. Therefore we are called taöastha, which means we are marginal; we can go either way. We may take God's side, or maya's side. that is our choice. When we don't want to serve God, we are sent to maya to serve her. Man's position as a subordinate remains the same, but in maya he thinks, ?I am the master.? This is just like a child trying to act against his father's wishes. When he is given a chance to do as he likes, the child thinks, ?Oh, I am independent now.? Actually he is never independent, but he thinks that he is. When death comes, no one is independent. Although man continually serves maya life after life, he still thinks of himself as independent. Only when we surrender to Krsna do we enjoy our real independence.

Syamasundara dasa: But lower forms try to emulate higher ones?

Srila Prabhupada: That is natural. Everyone wants a higher position because everyone is trying to be master. That is the whole problem. One can be a master to some extent: a head clerk in an office, a president, or prime minister. There is much ambition in hte material world because materialistic men are guided by the idea that ?I shall become like Krsna.? When their efforts fail in the material world, they strive to merge into Krsna. This is Mayavadi philosophy. Not knowing that they are already Brahman, spirit soul, they consider themselves the Supreme Brahman, God Himself. therefore they sit and meditate, thinking, ?I am moving the sun. I am moving the moon.? This is simply imagination. This is the last snare of maya. Maya first of all allures us to become a big merchant, a prime minister, a president. Maya is always saying, ?Become this, become that, become, become.? Maya is always telling us to work under her direction. Finally, she says, ?Now you have failed in all these things. It is better now that you become God, and attain your real status again.? So the living entity begins to think, ?I am God,? but maya is still kicking him. As soon as this so-called God gets some toothache, he runs to the doctor. He does not stop to think, ?What kind of God am I??

Syamasundara dasa: But what is that urge for promotion?

Srila Prabhupada: It is not the individual's urge. Nature is giving the impetus. For instance, when you were a child, there wa no sex urge, but when you attained adolescence, immediately the sex urge became manifest. Similarly, the perfection of consciousness is there, but unless you come to the platform of human life, it will not develop.

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Hayagriva dasa: At times, Alexander takes the Aristotelian view in maintaining that ?there is no reciprocal action from God. For though we speak, as we inevitably must, in human terms of God?s response to us, there is no direct experience of that response except through our own feeling that devotion to God or worship, carries with it its own satisfaction.?

Srila Prabhupada: This means that he does not understand God's omnipotence. God is omnipotent, and He comes before Arjuna to speak Bhagavad-gita. Being all powerful, God can come and speak to His devotee. If He cannot, what is the meaning of His omnipotence? Krsna reciprocates with the advanced devotees.

 

?To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.? (Bg. 10.10) God talks to His devotee who is fully in love with Him, but He does not talk with ordinary men.

 

?I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are annointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Syamasundara situated within the heart of the devotee.? (Brahma-samhita 5.38)

 

Just as a king talks with his immeditate officers and ministers and not with the ordinary man in the street, God personally talks to His devotees but not to the nondevotees or atheists. We understand that Krsna talked to the gopis and gopas in Vrndavana and reciprocated with His parents, Mother Yasoda and Maharaja Nanda. The cowherd boys who played with Krsna amassed many pious activities in their previous lives to arrive at a position where they could play with God. This is not an ordinary position. People generally think that such play is inconceivable, but when we come to that platform of devotion, we can play with God, ride on God's shoulders, and talk with Him just as with an ordinary friend. Of course, one comes to that position of perfection after many millions of pious births.

Hayagriva dasa: Within the same book, Space, Time and Deity, Alexander contradicts himself on this issue of reciprocation. ?God reciprocates the worship man pays Him and the confidence he reposes in Him,? he writes. ?There is always the double relationship of need. If man wants God and depends upon Him, God wants man, and is so far dependent.?

Srila Prabhupada: God is not dependent on anyone. God is independent, but that statement is acceptable in the sense that sometimes God wants to become dependent. That is according to His pleasure. Sometimes He accepts some of His devotees in ways that He can depend on them. He became dependent on Mother Yasoda, just as an ordinary child becomes dependent on his mother. Although everything is dependent on God, and He is not dependent on anyone, He takes pleasure in this kind of relationship.

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Syamasundara dasa: Alexander sees the freedom of the will operating as an activity not subject to extraneous forces. It is the expression of a person acting to serve not only his own interests but those of society as well.

Srila Prabhupada: In a state, a citizen also cooperates in two ways. When he does not break the law, he cooperates as a free citizen, and when he breaks the law, he cooperates by going to prison. He either cooperates by free will or by force. Forceful cooperation is inferior. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said:

 

?It is the living entity?s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Krsna because he is the marginal energy of Krsna, and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Krsna has three varieties of energy.? (Caitanya - caritamrta, Madh. 20.108-109)

 

By his constitutional position, the living entity is the eternal servant of Krsna. In the Vaikuntha planets, cooperation is voluntary, and here in this material world, cooperation is forced. In the material world, we are serving maya, working under her force. We can avoid that force only by voluntarily cooperating with Krsna.

 

?This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.? (Bg. 7.14)

 

Automatic cooperation is bhakti, and forced cooperation is karma. These may appear to be the same, but they are not. The karmi may be typing, and the bhakta may be typing, but the karmi is typing under the force of maya, to earn money for sense gratification, and the bhakta is typing for the glorification of Krsna. The activity is the same, but the consciousness is different.

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Sysmasundara dasa: Alexander accepted Plato's three greatest values in life-truth, beauty, and goodness-as values to be accepted by the majority.

Srila Prabhupada: Unfortunately, in the material world, no one likes the truth. At least in this age, the majority of people are not truthful. As soon as one becomes truthful, he becomes a br¢hmaëa. Where are the br¢hmaëas in this age? Kalau çüdra sambhava. In Kali-yuga, everyone is a südra. If Alexander thinks that everyone will accept truthfulness as a great value, he is mistaken.

Sysmasundara dasa: For Alexander, there is a practical criterion for truth, but he preferred the coherence principle by which the majority opinion determined truth by mutual agreement.

Srila Prabhupada: Because he is European, he is thinking in a democratic way. The hard fact is that truth is not accepted by ordinary men. Truth is truth. Either it is in your mind or not; truth is absolute. Only highly elevated persons can understand the truth. Out of many truthful men, perhaps only one can understand Krsna as He is.

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Hayagriva dasa: As soon as Huxley became a Darwinist, he rejected a supernatural god and the Bible, proclaiming that "argument from design" had "received its death blow." Unlike spinoza, he did not accept a pantheistic God, but believed in "the Divine government of the universe," and felt that the cosmic process is rational and not accidental. Still, he rejected a personal God concerned with morality.

Srila Prabhupada: That is a mistake. Nature in itself is not rational; it is simply dead matter. A piece of wood is not rational, but the carpenter who shapes it is. the cosmic process may be rational, but this is only becasue there is a rational being behind it. that rational being is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. nature cannot be rational out of its own accord any more than a piece of wood can become a table without a carpenter.

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Hayagriva dasa: Concerning religion, Nietzsche felt that because Christ's own disciples misunderstood him, Christianity as such never existed. "The last Christian died on the cross," he wrote. Although Christ was totally pure and free from all resentment and envy, Christianity has had envy and resentment as its focal point from its very beginning, even though it calls itself the religion of love. Thus Nietzsche proclaimed, "God is dead," in the sense that the God of the Christian religion is dead.

Srila Prabhupada: If you create an artificial god, it is better that he is dead so that he cannot inflict more injuries.

Hayagriva dasa: Then it is better to have no conception of God than a bad conception?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, better. But Christ was the embodiment of tolerance. There is no doubt about this.

Hayagriva dasa: It is not that Nietzsche criticizes Christ himself, but his followers.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, actually we can see that the Christians hate the Jews because the Jews crucified Christ. They even utilize the symbol of the cross to remind people that the Jews crucified him. Even in the churches there are pictures of Lord Jesus, with thorns on his head, being forced to carry his cross. In this way, the people are reminded of all the troubles that the Jews gave to Christ. emphasizing Christ on the cross is a way of prolonging resentment against the Jews. But the fact is that Christ had many other activities, which are not brought into prominence. Actually, it is very painful for a devotee to see his master being crucified. Even though Christ was crucified, that scene in his life should not be emphasized.

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Syamasundara dasa: Regardless of the form of government, Sartre believes that man is basically free.

Srila Prabhupada: As soon as you speak of freedom, you refer to some living being. Matter itself has no freedom. It is the active principle that is free.

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre maintains that man is condemned to be free, that this is a fate from which man cannot escape.

Srila Prabhupada: If man is condemned, who has condemned him?

Syamasundara dasa: Man is condemned by accident, thrown into the world.

Srila Prabhupada: Is it simply by accident that one person is condemned and another blessed? Is it an accident that one man is in jail and another is not? What kind of philosophy is this? Such so-called philosophy simply misleads people. Nothing is accidental. We agree that the living entity is condemned to this maerial world, but when we speak of condemnation, we also speak of blessedness. So what is that blessedness?

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre argues that man is condemned in the sense that he cannot escape this freedom. Since man is free, his is responsible for his activities.

Srila Prabhupada: If you are responsible, then your freedom is not accidental. How is it you are accidentally responsible? If there is responsibility, there must be someone you are responsible to. There must be someone who is condemening you or blessing you. These things cannot happen accidentally. His philosophy is contradictory.

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Syamasundara dasa: But we have no fixed nature in the sense that today I may be happy and tomorrow unhappy.

Srila Prabhupada: That is true to some extent. When you are placed into the sea, you have no control. You move according to the waves. This means that there is a power that is controlling you. However, if you put yourself in better circumstances, you will be able to control. Because you have placed yourself under the control of material nature, you act according to the modes of material nature.

 

"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which in actuality are carried out by nature." (Bg. 3.27)

 

Because you are conditioned, your freedom is checked. When you are thrown intot he ocean of material existence, you essentially lose your freedom. Therefore it is your duty to get yourself liberated.

Syamasundara dasa: Because we are one thing today and something else tomorrow, Sartre says that our essential nature is "no-thingness."

Srila Prabhupada: You are nothing in the sense that you are under the full control of a superior power, being carried away by the waves of maya. In the ocean of maya you say, "I am nothing," but actually you are something. Your something-ness will be very much exhibited to you when you are put on land. Out of despair, you conclude that your nature is that of nothingness. Sartre's philosophy is a philosophy of despair, and we say that it is unintelligent because despair is not the result of intelligence.

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Syamasundara dasa: Since man's essential nature is an undetermined nothingness, Sartre believes that man is free to choose to be either a coward or a hero. Our situation is in our own hands.

Srila Prabhupada: If you claim that you were tossed into the world by some superior power, or by accident, what can you do? How can you become a hero? If you try to become a hero, you will be kicked all the more because you are placed here by a superior power. If a culprit under police custody attempts to become a hero, he will be beaten and punished. Actually, you are neither a coward nor a hero. You are an instrument. You are completely under the control of a superior power.

Syamasundara dasa: Well, if someone is attacking you, you have the power to choose to be a hero and defend yourself, or to run.

Srila Prabhupada: It is not heroic to defend oneself. That is natural. If that is the case, even a dog can be a hero when he is attacked. Even an ant can be a hero. heroism and cowardice are simply mental concoctions. After all, you are under the control of a power that can do what He likes with you. Therefore there is no question of your becoming a hero or a coward.

Syamasundara dasa: Suppose someone is in danger, and you rescue him. Isn't that being heroic?

Srila Prabhupadaa: All you can rescue is the exterior dress. Saving that dress is not heroism. It is not even protection. One can be a real hero only when he is fully empowered or fully protected. Such a person can only be a devotee, because only Krsna can fully protect or empower.

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Syamasundara dasa: Being free, man is subject to what Sartre calls "bad faith," a kind of self-deception. Through bad faith, man looses his freedom and responsibility.

Srila Prabhupada: You certainly have limited freedom to choose, but if you choose improperly, you have to suffer. Responsibility and freedom go hand in hand. At the same time, there must be descrimination. Without it, our freedom is blind. We cannot understand right from wrong.

Syamasundara dasa: A man in bad faith drifts along from day to day without being involved, avoiding responnsible decisions.

Srila Prabhupada: This means that he has decided to drift. His drifting is a decision.

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre believes that bad faith must be replaced by a solid choosing, and by faith in that choice.

Srila Prabhupada: But if he makes the wrong decision, what is the value of his action? Moths fly very valiantly and courageously into the fire. Is that a very good decision?

Syamasundara dasa: Due to bad faith, people treat others as objects instead of prersons. Sartre advocates rectifying this situation.

Srila Prabhupada: He speaks about bad faith, but what about good faith?

Syamasundara dasa: If bad faith is the avoidance of decisions, good faith would mean making decisions courageously and following them out, regardless of what these decisions might are.

Srila Prabhupada: But what if your decision is wrong?

Syamasundara dasa: For Sartre, it is not a question of right or wrong.

Srila Prabhupada: Then whatever decision I make is final and absolute? This means that the insect's decision to enter the fire is a proper decision. This is the philosophy of insects. If man can do as he pleases, where is his responsibility?

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre believes that the fate of the world depends on man's decisions. Obviously, if man decides properly, the world would be a better place.

Srila Prabhupada: Therefore we are trying to introduce this Krsna consciousness in order to make the world into Vaikuëöha, into a place where there is no anxiety. But this is not a blind decision. It is the decision of a higher authority; therefore it is perfect.

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Srila Prabhupada: Sartre may be a useless passion, but we are not. No sane man is useless. A sane man will follow a superior authority. That is Vedic civilization. If one approaches a bona fide spiritual master, he will not be bewildered. Sartre believes that the universe is without a purpose becasue he is blind. He has no power to see that there is a plan. Therefore, according to Bhagavad-gita, his philosophy is asuric, demoniac. Everything in the universe functions according to some plan. the sun and moon rise, and the seasons change according to plan.

Syamasundara dasa: For Sartre, man stands alone in the world, yet he is not alone if he is a being-for-others. Man needs others for his own self-realization.

Srila Prabhupada: This means that man requires a guru.

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre does not speak of a guru but of interaction with others for self-understanding.

Srila Prabhupada: If this is required, why not interact with the best man? If we require others to understand ourselves, why should we not seek the best man for our own understanding? We should receive help from the man who knows. If you take the advice of one who can give you the right direction, your end will be glorious. That is the Vedic injunction.Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet (Mundaka Upanisad 1.2.12).

Syamasundara dasa: Sartre feels that in the presence of others, man is ashamed.

Srila Prabhupada: Man is ashamed if he is not guided by a superior. If you are guided by a superior, you will be glorious, not ashamed. Your superior is that person who can lead you to the glory of Krsna consciousness.

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Syamasundara dasa: Kierkegaard believed that in the religious stage, there is intense suffering, comparable to the suffering of Job.

Srila Prabhupada: Why is this? If one is Krsna conscious, why should he suffer?

Syamasundara dasa: Well, Kierkegaard was a Christian. Christ suffered for our sins, and the process of overcoming sin is a kind of suffering.

Srila Prabhupada: But that is a wrong theory. If Christ is God, or the son of God, why should he suffer? What kind of God is subjected to suffering? Why should either God or man suffer? The whole point is that if there is suffering, you must put an end to it. Many so-called Christians think that because they have some contract with Christ, because Christ suffered for their sins, they can go on sinning. Is this a very good philosophy?

 

Syamasundara dasa: For Kierkegaard, the culmination of commitment is religious life, which is epitomized in the inwardness of suffering.

Srila Prabhupada: Suffering arises because we identify with the body. When a person has an automobile accident, he may not actually suffer, but because he identifies himself with matter, with the body, he suffers. Because God is always in full knowledge and is always transcendental to the material world, God never suffers. It is a question of knowledge whether there is suffering or not.

Syamasundara dasa: But don't pennance and austerity involve suffering?

Srila Prabhupada: No. For those who are advanced in knowledge, there is no suffering. Of course, there may be some bodily pain, but a person in knowledge understands that he is not the body; therefore, why should he suffer? He thinks, "Let me do my duty, Hare Krsna." That is the advanced stage. Suffering is due to ignorance.

Syamasundara dasa: But doesn't one forsake bodily comforts by serving God?

Srila Prabhupada: Rupa and Sanatana Gosvami were high government ministers, but they abandoned their material opulence in order to bestow mercy upon the common people. Thus they accepted a mere loincloth and slept under a different tree every night. Of course, foolish people might say that they were suffering, but they were meerged in the ocean of transcendental bliss writing about Krsna?s pastimes with the gopis. they engaged their minds in thoughts of Krsna and the gopis, and they wrote books from day to day. There was no question of their suffering, although a fool may think, "Oh, these men were ministers, high government officials, and they were so comfortable with their families and homes. Now they ahve no home, and are going about in loinclothes, and eating very little." A materialist would think that they were suffering, but they were no suffering. they were enjoying.

Syamasundara dasa: Some Christians emphasize the value of suffering, thinking that to abandon worldly life is to abandon pleasure and to suffer.

Srila Prabhupada: this is due to a poor fund of knowledge. They have developed this philosophy after the demise of Jesus Christ. It is more or less concocted.

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Sysmasundara dasa: At the ethical stage, man may perform pious works or humanitarian deeds, and Kierkegaard sees this as a step in the right direction toward authentic selfhood. By making the proper ethical decisions, we can approach self-awareness and the religious stage.

Srila Prabhupada: But what is the ultimate decision? Why do people become moral? Simply to feed the poor and become humanitarians?

Sysmasundara dasa: For Kierkegaard, it does not much matter what we choose, but the fact that we make the choice. Through choosing, we discover our own integrity.

Srila Prabhupada: But it is not clear how a person makes the right decisions. One man may choose to slaughter, and another may choose to help others. A man may give charity to others, and at the same time encourage killing animals. What are the ethics involved? On the one hand, Vivekananda was advocating feeding the poor, but on the other hand he was suggesting feeding them with Mother Kali?s prasadam, with bulls. So what kind of ethics are these? What is the value of ethics if they are based on imperfect knowlege?

Sysmasundara dasa: Kierkegaard would say that by turning inward, we would make the proper decision. This entails self-knowledge and self-commitment.

Srila Prabhupada: But what is that inwardness? One may simply think, ?I will protect my brother by killing another.? What are the ethics involved? We must have some standard by which to make the right decision.

Sysmasundara dasa: His standard would be "Choose thyself."

Srila Prabhupada: But without knowing yourself, how can you make a choice? And how can you know yourself unless you go to one who knows things as they are? Most people think that they are the body. What kind of self-knowledge is this? If one identifies with the body, he is no better than an ass. Then what is the value of his philosophy?

 

A human being who identifies this body make of three elements with his self, who considers the by-products of the body to be his kinsmen, who considers the land of birth worshipable, and who goes to the places of pilgrimage simply to take a bath rather than meet men of transcendental knowledge there, is to be considered like an ass or cow. (Bhag. 10.84.13)

 

Sysmasundara dasa: Kierkegaard emphasizes the very act of deciding, not the decision.

Srila Prabhupada: But unless we know the aim of life, how can we make the right decision? It is childish to say that we become enlightened by choosing either this or that. A child chooses to play sometimes with one toy and sometimes with another, but where is his enlightenment? Animals also make their decisions. The ass decides to eat a morsel of grass and work all day carrying loads. If the decision is not important, why not decide for unrestricted sense gratification?

[ethos]

Syamasundara dasa: According to Catholicism, at the time of death, a priest can absolve you of your sins.

Srila Prabhupada: Provided you have the consciousness to understand the words of the priest.

Syamasundara dasa: Even though one has committed many sins throughout his life, he can be absolved of his sins on his deathbed.

Srila Prabhupada: That is quite possible because a priest can remind you of God at the time of death. Your thoughts at the time of death are very important. There are so many examples: Ajamila, and Bharata Maharaja. Therefore King Kulasekhara prays, ?Let me die immediately while I am thinking of Krsna.? Of course, unless we are practiced, it is not possible to think of Krsna at the time of death, because at that time there are many bodily disturbances. Therefore, from the beginning, austerities are required.

 

[ethos]

Sysmasundara dasa: Kant maintains that the mental speculators try to reconstruct ultimate reality by applying mundance categories to it. They attempt through the mind to create what Srila Prabhupada: For mental speculators, the real world is nothing more than the negation of this world. This is voidism. In this world, we experience that everything is material. The mental speculator's materialistic thinking induces him to conclude taht the spiritual must be the opposite of the material. Since the material has form, the spiritual must be formless, or void. This is typical materialistic thinking. He thinks, "Since this is not truth, the opposite must be truth."

Sysmasundara dasa: Kant says that "the world is my representation." That is, this real world becomes an ideal construction in the mind of man.

Srila Prabhupada: We try to construct an ideal world, but we are frustrated here because everything is temporary; therefore we can understand that the ideal must be eternal. No one wants to die; we all want to live. However, this is hopeless because the body is not eternal. Therefore, we understand that in the ideal world, the body is eternal.

Hayagriva dasa: Kant acknowledges that there is a design in nature but that man, not being able to know the total design, cannot know for certain whether there is a designer. The design, as man sees it, does not necessarily prove the existence of the designer. His existence can only be intuited.

Srila Prabhupada: As soon a we see pottery, we immediately understand that there is a potter. It is impossible for pottery to be made any other way.

 

Hayagriva dasa: Kant would say that the design can be intuited but not known.

Sila Prabhupada: To a foolish man, everything is unknown, but a man in knowledge knows everything from authority, or from direct perception. Some way or other, the knowledge is there. Something is unknown when one doesn't care to know, or doesn't want to receive the knowledge.

[ethos]

God's energy is so subtle that it works simply by His will.

[ethos]

Syamasundara dasa: According to Kant, when we examine material phenomena by our reason, we arrive at certain contradicitons called antimonies??that is, two opposing statements regarded to be true.

Srila Prabhupada: In Sanskrit, this is called viruddhartha, words that mean both yes and no.

 

Syamasundara dasa: Another antimony questions the existence of an Absolute Being: "There exists an absolutely necessary being, which belongs to the world either as a part or as the cause." And, "There nowhere exists an absolutely necessary being, either in the world or outside, as its cause." Thus according to reason, we can conclude that there is either a God or no God.

Srila Prabhupada: What reasoning can support the nonexistence of God?

Syamasundara dasa: We can conclude this by using the senses.

Srila Prabhupada: But where do you get your senses?

Syamasundara dasa: One could say that they are only a combination of matter.

Srila Prabhupada: But where does this matter come from?

Syamasundara dasa: According to material reasoning, one can say that there is no necessary cause.

Srila Prabhupada: But we can see that matter is growing, coming into existence like a tree.

Syamasundara dasa: It may have been eternally existing.

Srila Prabhupada: How is that? A tree is not eternally existing. This brass pot is not eternally existing. Someone has made it.

Syamasundara dasa: But the matter itself could have been eternally existing.

Srila Prabhupada: But we can see that it is not only existing. It is growing. A tree is wood, and wood is matter. How is it growing? Similarly, our material bodies take birth at a certain moment, grow, reproduce, dwindle, and finally vanish. This is the nature of all matter. Everything starts out as a seed and grows from there. Now, where does the seed come from? Krsna says "I am the original seed of all existences." (Bg. 7.10) Therefore, Krsna is the cause of everything.

Syamasundara dasa: Kant's point is that these antimonies arise from the attempt by reason to apply its categories to the Absolute, the transcendent. But by mundane reasoning alone, we cannot approach the Absolute.

Srila Prabhupada: By our reasoning, we can see that everything is growing and that the entire cosmic manifestation must have grown from a source.

Syamasundara dasa: But this is transcendental reasoning.

Srila Prabhupada: No, common reason. Everything is growing from a certain source; therefore this material world must have grown from a certain source. It is very simple.

Syamasundara dasa: But some people can look at the seed of a tree and come to a different conclusion.

Srila Prabhupada: Well, we also receive this information from authoritative literature, from the Vedas.

Syamasundara dasa: Someone can apply different reasoning and arrive at a different conclusion.

Srila Prabhupada: But is this reasoning proved by experience? Can a man prove that he is born without a father? How did the material body come into existence? How can one deny his father? How can one deny the cause? He cannot because his very existence is depending on some casuse.

Syamasundara dasa: Kant is simply saying that whenever we begin to speculate about the Absolute, we run into contadictions.

Syamasundara dasa: Someone can apply different reasoning and arrive at a different conclusion.

Srila Prabhupada: Contradiction is due to imperfect knowledge. Unless we conclude that Krsna is the cause of all causes, our knowledge is doomed to be imperfect. Vedic literature say that Krsna glanced at material nature and impregnated her. Then so many products developed, including all these categories. Matter and spirit combined to bring this whole cosmic manifestation into existence.

[ethos]

Sysmasundara dasa: In Critique of Practical Reason, Kant affirmed that moral laws are necessary and universal objects for the human will and must be accepted as valid for everyone. We can know what is morally right a priori, by intuition.

Srila Prabhupada: No, morality is relative. It varies according to the development of a particular society. For instance, there are many immoral acts taking place in modern society, but no one cares. People go ahead and act as they please.

Sysmasundara dasa: Then there is no universal morality?

Srila Prabhupada: Universal morality means obeying God. That's all.

Sysmasundara dasa: But are any of God's laws fixed?

Srila Prabhupada: All laws are included if you obey God. That is universal morality.

 

"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend." (Bg. 18.65)

 

This is the basis of morality. We must become Krsna's servitor. Since so many immoral activities are being accepted as moral, how else can a person know what is moral and what is not?

Hayagriva dasa: Kant writes: "For a rational but finite being, the only thing possible is an endless progress from the lower to the higher degrees of moral perfection."

Srila Prabhupada: This means that there is an endless struggle to understand real morlality. This is not necessary. We need only accept the orders of God and follow them. That is ultimate reality.

Hayagriva dasa: What Kant means by morality is rather vague. He does not give specific outlines for action. Rather, he writes, "The moral individual is to do what is good only becasue it is good." According tohis categorical imperative, man should act in such a way that the maxim of his actions might become the prinicple for universal law.

Srila Prabhupada: But that is impossible for the individual soul It is impossible fo a conditioned living entity to do something that will be universally accepted.

Hayagriva dasa: Then man cannot establish a universal law by his own actions?

Srila Prabhupada: No. Only God can do so. Only God can say, "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me." (Bg. 18.66) If an individual conditioned soul says this, who will accept Him?

Sysmasundara dasa: But Kant says that there are certain imperatives that we are born with.

Srila Prabhupada: What are these? He should say specifically. The only universal imperative is that you should be obedient to God. That's all.

 

 

Syamasundara dasa: Ideally, for Kant, it is the moral obligation of everyone to obey the moral commands.

Srila Prabhupada: Not moral commands, but the supreme command. As I said, what is moral for you may be immoral for others. One man's food is another's poison. If Krsna tells Yudhisthira to lie, that lying is moral. Krsna tells Arjuna to fight and kill, and that killing is moral. Morality means obeying God's order. Because your senses are imperfect, you cannot create morality. You cannot even know what is moral. Therefore you should follow the orders of Krsna or His representative. The real categorical imperative is to obey the Supreme. That is morality, and anything else is immoral.

Syamasundara dasa: Then we are not born with a priori knowledge of what is right?

Srila Prabhupada: A priori in the sense that we know we have to obey Krsna. That knowledge is manifest even in uncivilized men. When aborigines see a thunderbolt, they offer prayers. It is natural and inborn to offer obeisances.

Syamasundara dasa: Kant says that it is not the act itself which is good or bad, but the will behind the act.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but that will has to be developed. A child has will, but it has to be developed by his teacher. Everyone in the material world is in ignorance; therefore it is called a place of darkness. The Vedas advise: "Don't remain in darkness. Go to the light." The spiritual world is light. In the material world, since our will is in darkness, it is bound to be imperfect. The will has to be dragged to the light, and that requires superior help. We cannot think, "I'm doing this for a good cause; therefore it is good." In this way, people manufacture all kinds of creeds and act in every way. guidance is required. We must consult a superior authority for confirmation.

[adreamgodus]

Om Shanti

 

As we know, in Advaita, the Mind as a perception organ is that which creates duality or illusion as Maya.

 

This is done via that which 'measures;

our world into segments:

 

Distance. Time. Specifics. Weight. Catergories. Comparisons. This. That.

They. Them. Up. Down. Left. Right.

North. South. In. Out...on and on.

 

why so many of these aspects are listed

above is so that the web's span of

illusion may be noted.

 

Often we may observe that:

 

All that distinguishes.

All that measures is from the mind.

 

yet, we may also find, that in

our discussions of the world beyond

we use these markers to 'explain'.

 

This paradox is interesting.

 

Is this also one aspect of Maya

or the Mystery of Truth?

 

we know that anything that creates

distance, a value, a starting place

or ending point is the act of qualifying...

 

is, in realtiy, the act of externalizing

that is, of Separation.

 

Yet, we proceed, caught, it seems, in

a subtel zone of forgetfullness.

 

Which translates as the concept of 'movement' or the experience

'distance' of some sort.

 

Is this distance is the mind...

 

In all of it's formost glory?

 

How do we avoid measurements in

with world of form, when engaged

in activites that may compel us

to look outside?

 

The ideal that work is worship and

that with the focal point of the

mind centered on the Divine, it is

said that we are In.

 

But how, when this too is a mere

thought?

 

Are we not looking away from the Divine

when engaged in thought?

 

And would this not included japas, too?

 

Yes, the mind's occupation with the

vibratory aspect of 'sound' does allow

the mind to become caught up within

itself so that the light of divinity

may shine.

 

But, is this not also and excerise in

of which we are engaged in segmentation?

 

And, is not segmentation Maya?

 

As sadhaks we are to examine that which is beyond words, beyond thought, beyond all that is a feature of what we call our life.

 

And, is it no wonder that in this exploration

many become lost into the folds of Maya's

Univeresal gown.

 

 

 

Om Shanti