Jahnava Nitai Das Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 Thakura Bhaktivinoda in Krsna Samhita 8.22 (verse and purport): sampradaya-virodho 'yam davanalo vicintyate The eleventh obstacle for the Vaisnavas is sectarianism, which takes the shape of the forest fire. Due to sectarianism a person cannot accept anyone outside of his own group as a Vaisnava, and as a result he faces many obstacles in finding a guru and associating with sincere devotees. Therefore extinguishing the forest fire is most important by giving up this mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Your right! I hear you loud and clear. I'll be the first to admit that I am a culprit of this. Message understood!!! Others should do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted October 21, 2002 Report Share Posted October 21, 2002 Question: Every Saturday Night in Manhattan, NYC we perform HarinAm sankIrtan. We means a very mixed group. Some were formerly ISKCON members. We all have in common one thing: we want to publicly Chant Holy Names. Some Gaudiyas criticize saying: y r u associating with Rtviks? U r being contaminated by them. Some even go so far as to say: "U R ONE OF THEM. U R A GAUDIYA RTVIK. A RTVIK IN DISGUISE." Meanwhile those who criticize are NOT performing any local public HarinAm themselves. I've told them time & time again I would chant with them if they chanted publicly, but so far no dice. So who's really sectarian? This summer I chanted publicly with ZrIla Bv NArAyaN Mhrj ziSyas in London, Den Haag, Rotterdam & Berlin, with Bhaktivallabha TIrtha Mhrj ziSyas in Wien, with Babajis in Driebergen, with ISKCON devotees in Amsterdam & Krk-Croatia... Some feedback please before I continue. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2002 Report Share Posted October 24, 2002 Thakura Bhaktivinoda in Krsna Samhita 8.22 (verse and purport): sampradaya-virodho 'yam davanalo vicintyate The eleventh obstacle for Vaisnavas is sectarianism, which takes the shape of the forest fire. Due to sectarianism a person cannot accept anyone outside of his own group as Vaisnava, and as a result he faces many obstacles in finding a guru and associating with sincere devotees. Therefore extinguishing the forest fire is most important by giving up this mentality. We wrote/published a VNN article on this point listing various terms for sectarian in Bangla, Hindi & Sanskrt. 1) KaniSTha cannot help but be sectarian. 2) Madhyam cannot be sectarian, no matter how hard he tries. 3) Uttam is so far beyond sectarian... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagat Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 How does "sampradAya-virodhaH" translate as "sectarianism"? The usual word is "sAmpradAyikatA". Bhaktivinoda's words here translate as "opposition to the sampradaya", which from his other writings I would interpret to mean opposition to the Madhva/Gaudiya connection. Of course, BVT wrote his own commentary to this verse in Bengali, to which I do not have access. Thus, though the sentiment of this post suits me, I have a strong doubt that this is Bhaktivinoda's original intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raga Posted December 19, 2002 Report Share Posted December 19, 2002 The quote above is from the edition of Bhumipati and Pundarika Vidyanidhi of ISKCON. It appears that they have merged the verses and the commentary by presenting only the Sanskrit verse and below it, the commentary of Bhaktivinoda. Have a look at what I sent you Jagat, that's how it looks like to me. It is the same in my hard copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krsna Posted May 28, 2005 Report Share Posted May 28, 2005 SRILA BHAKTIVINODA THAKUR ABOUT SECTARIANISM by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur Sectarianism is a natural by-product of the Absolute Truth. When acaryas first ascertain and instruct the Truth, it is not polluted with sectarianism. But the rules and regulations received through disciplic succession regarding the goal and the method of achieving it are changed in due course of time according to the mentality and locale of the people. A rule that is followed by one society is not necessarily accepted in another society. That is why one community is different from another. As a community gradually develops more respect for its own standards, it develops hatred towards other communities and considers their standards inferior. These sectarian symptoms are seen in all countries since time immemorial. This is prominent amongst neophytes and found to some extent amongst madhyama-adhikaris. Amongst uttama-adhikaris, however, there is no trace of sectarianism. Adherence to a particular standard is the prominent symptom of a society. There are three types of standards—alocakagata, alocanagata and alocyagata. Alocakagata is when sectarianists accept some external signs. Examples of alocakagata are tilaka, neck beads, saffron robes, and the baptism that is practiced abroad. The different activities practiced in the process of worship are called alocanagata. Examples of alocanagata are sacrifices, austerities, fire sacrifices, vows, studying scriptures, deity worship, constructing temples, respecting the purity of various trees and rivers, dressing like sannyasis, acting like acaryas, dressing like brahmacaris or grhasthas, closing one's eyes, respecting particular types of books, rules and regulations in eating, and respecting the purity of particular times and places. The examples of alocyagata are attributing personalism or impersonalism on the Supreme Lord, installing deities, exhibiting the mood of an incarnation of the Lord, speculating on heaven and hell, and describing the future destination of the soul. The different forms of these spiritual activities create divisions of sectarianism. Differences that arise from places, times, languages, behaviors, foods, dresses, and natures of various communities are incorporated within people's spiritual practices and gradually make one community so completely different from another community that even the consideration that everyone is a human being may cease to exist. Due to these differences there is disagreement, cessation of social intercourse, and fighting, even up to the point of killing on another. When an ass-like mentality becomes prominent within the kanishta-adhikaris, they certainly indulge in these things. But if they develop a swanlike mentality, then they do not take part in quarrels; rather, they endeavor to attain a higher level. Madhyama-adhikaris do not quarrel so much about external standards, but they are always attacked by philosophical disagreements. Sometimes they condemn the standards as superior. They condemn the neophytes' deity worship in order to establish the worship-able Lord as formless. In such cases, they are also considered ass-like people. Otherwise, if they had a swanlike mentality and a desire to attain a higher level, they would respect others' practices and inquire about higher topics. Contradictions actually arise only due to ass-like mentality. Swanlike persons consider the necessity for different practices to one's qualification, so they are naturally detached from sectarian quarrels. In this regard, it should be understood that both ass-like and swanlike people are found amongst the kanishta-adhikaris and madhyama-adhikaris. Source: Sri Krishna-samhita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayaPrabhupada Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Thakura Bhaktivinoda in Krsna Samhita 8.22 (verse and purport): sampradaya-virodho 'yam davanalo vicintyate Thank you. That is nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarun Posted July 27, 2005 Report Share Posted July 27, 2005 Some include word sAkhA = branch Those who insist on seeing the branch, not the tree... and what to speak of the FOREST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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