What is your religion?

[leyh]

In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells us to "Abandon all varieties of religion".This instruction can be difficult to follow in a world which insists on categorizing people according to their race,nationality,religious beliefs,political views etc.We all have to fill forms where we eventually come across

 

Religion:______________________

 

Usually I'd just write "Nil".Sometimes,if it's an unofficial survey or something like that I'd write "Krsna".But usually it's just "Nil". Part of the "Abandon all varieties of religion" process, I guess, is to refuse to pigeonholed by designations.

 

I'm curious as to how those who are practicing Krsna Consciousness declare their religion on official forms.Do you put "Vaisnava", "Gaudiya Vaisnava","Hare Krishna", "Hindu" etc?

[Guest guest]

It all depends on what form I am filling. If it feels like there is an opportunity to expand their horizons I will say I'm Vaisnava , but I realize this means nothing to many people, as the majority of people would'nt have a clue what a vaisnava is. Krsna Consciousness they have some idea of, but generally see it more as a sect than a religion. And if you say nil as in 'sarva dharman' they take it as athieism without giving a spiel on what you mean. And I think Hindhuism also falls into the 'too broad' net. Plus it carries some rather unsavory elements of fundamentalism, like the other major players.

There is a lot of work to be done to even educate the masses that there is such a species as a vaisnava and then to define the different vaisnavas is another job again.

[xxvvii]

 

In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna tells us to "Abandon all varieties of religion".This instruction can be difficult to follow in a world which insists on categorizing people according to their race,nationality,religious beliefs,political views etc.We all have to fill forms where we eventually come across

 

 

I'm not sure whether "dharma" should trans. into "religion". My understanding is to abandon all sangas even to dharma like a drift because even dharma is lower than brahman .

[mahak]

Haribol, leyh, I do these forms all the time. On race, I write "None", on religion, I write "relationship with the Supreme Lord". One, on a serious security govt form, I wrote, "No thank you", and have often wrote "human" on the race line. aint forms fun, haribol, ys, mahak

[Somesh Kumar]

Hare Krishna Leyh,

 

 

This instruction can be difficult to follow in a world which insists on categorizing people according to their race,nationality,religious beliefs,political views etc.We all have to fill forms where we eventually come across

 

 

Even according to His Divine Grace A.C.Bhktivedanta Swami Prabhupada dharma or reiligion is not a kind of faith. It is defined as dharmam tu sakshat bhagavat pranitam It's directly coming from Bhagavaan. Dharma is actually the occupational duty of serving. As His Divine Grace states it's like the liquidity of the water or sweetness of sugar, which is intrinsically a part of the substance.

 

The great thing about this verse is that Krishna who himself made the dharma is asking us to leave that and single mindedly take his refuge, which only fortunate souls can do!

 

Any takers?

[leyh]

Haribol,everyone.

 

Mahak,I like what you wrote about:"relationship with the Supreme Lord" as something you'd fill on forms.A declaration like that is bound to raise more than a few eyebrows in this sectarian age.

 

I've had to explain to friends and generally any inquirers that Krsna is not an Indian god,but God and that I am not a Hindu,but someone who worships Krsna (I hesitate to use the word "devotee".

 

One hardly hears anyone calling Jesus a "Jewish God".He has been divorced from his Jewish tradition and internationalized.I don't know whether the same can be for Krsna because Krsna worship,in particular that found in Gaudiya Vaishnavism,is still very much rooted in Indian culture.

[Gauracandra]

 

He has been divorced from his Jewish tradition and internationalized.I don't know whether the same can be for Krsna because Krsna worship,in particular that found in Gaudiya Vaishnavism,is still very much rooted in Indian culture.

 

 

 

The problem is how do you (or should you) go about separating the two - Krsna as God, and Krsna as the Indian God. That is I don't think any Westerner becomes a Vaisnava because they want to "be" Indian. They find Krsna attractive. For Christianity they have it much easier (partly because they are already in the majority). But you are right, a Christian can go to Africa, China, South America, and Christ isn't a Jewish God. I think to a large degree this is because Christianity broke away from the ritualism of Judaism and created less demanding rituals. These less demanding rituals are easier to transfer from one culture to the next. As such you just act as you normally would within your culture but go to church on Sundays and worship Christ.

[Somesh Kumar]

Hari bol Gauracandra prabhu ji,

 

 

The problem is how do you (or should you) go about separating the two - Krsna as God, and Krsna as the Indian God. That is I don't think any Westerner becomes a Vaisnava because they want to "be" Indian.

 

 

You yourself answered the problem which you stated in your first sentence.

 

We can always say what Krsna says:

 

sarva yonisu kaunteya, murtaya sambhavanti ya,

tasam brahma mahad yonir, aham bija prada pita

 

Krsna says that he's the seed giving father of all the living beings!

Of course, a person who has faith can only understand this!

Also I remember having read Srila Prabhupada's lecture saying that originally this whole world was called "Bharatvarsha" and was under the rule of one King. Could anyone find that lecture if I am right?

[leyh]

Krsna's attractive qualities are international and cut across all cultural and national boundaries.If only more people take time out to examine Him.

 

I wonder if,in the course of time,Krsna Consciousness will break away from its Indian cultural practices like Sanskrit prayers and taking on another cultural form.Buddhism, for example was absorbed into Chinese culture and took on an entirely new exterior features like the "Chinese-nized" image of the Buddha .

 

Change might not be a bad thing if the "new" form of Krsna Consciousness continue to retain the essence of the "old" form --- worship of the Guru,the scriptures, etc.I'm not sure whether this is a good thing,for there is a danger of dilution.Imagine a sannyasa in t-shirt and jeans reciting Vaisnava prayers in English.Not very inspiring.But maybe that's because I have been accustomed to the old form.

 

One of the longest surviving spiritual traidtions,the Roman Catholic Church, has remained a potent spiritual force even though it retained many of the old traditions and rituals from centuries ago,albeit with some reforms like the language of the mass which no longer has to be in Latin.

 

I wonder how the Krsna Consciousness movement one thousamd years later will be like.One part of me envisions a new image with people chanting the holy names and worshipping Krsna with features of their own culture rather then Indian culture while another part of me thinks that the movement will be very much the same as it is now --- saffron robes, dandas, Sanskrit prayers,etc.I'm not sure.But as long as Krsna is being worshipped and His names are sung in every town and village,I'm sure the exterior details won't matter very much.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Leyh, if someone asking your for religion but you have given up same according with Lord's advice, you can always be telling them the religion you gave up, no?

 

This way you can follow Lord's advice and be detached from the prestige of doing same, is it not?

[leyh]

Dear Guest:

 

You're right,I guess.I can say that I gave up sectarianism for Krsna.Or should I say,I'm trying to renounce sectarianism for Krsna.I have yet to succeed.

[Somesh Kumar]

Hare Krsna Leyh prabhu ji,

 

I wonder if,in the course of time,Krsna Consciousness will break away from its Indian cultural practices like Sanskrit prayers and taking on another cultural form.

 

 

Though your idea is good, but I think the identity has to be retained. Also Sanskrit itself is a very sacred language, considered to be the language of Gods.

 

Have a look at this link:

Sanskrit - Language of Gods

 

 

Change might not be a bad thing if the "new" form of Krsna Consciousness continue to retain the essence of the "old" form --- worship of the Guru,the scriptures, etc.I'm not sure whether this is a good thing,for there is a danger of dilution.Imagine a sannyasa in t-shirt and jeans reciting Vaisnava prayers in English.Not very inspiring.But maybe that's because I have been accustomed to the old form.

 

 

One of the most important thing which comes to my mind is that to attract someone we should have an identity of our own. So the vedic dress code and sanskrit etc. is the identity of Krsna Conciousness externally, at least to the people who are totally engrossed in material activities, forgetting the Supreme aim.

 

I remember one of the devotees saying that at least by seeing the devotee (his dress etc.) the materialistic people say "Hare Krsna's are going". And by wearing the dress code that devotee has made a person say "Hare Krsna" though it would have been said jokingly!

 

So, actually speaking the dress code, Sanskrit, proper rituals etc. is spiritualising the atmosphere!!!

 

What do you think?

 

 

[leyh]

Hare Krsna,Somesh Prabhu:

 

I must confess that I am very attracted by the external features of Krsna Consciousness --- the saffron robes, the tilak and the sikha, the Sanskrit rituals, etc. but on the other hand,I can't wondering whether in the course of time, there will be a country or even countries where Krsna Consciousness will become absorbed by another culture to such an extent that its external features will be modified while retaining its inner essence.This has been seen in all the great world religions like Buddhism and Christianity.

[Guest guest]

During an interview with Bill Faill of the Durban Natal Mercury, South Africa, 1976,Srila Prabhupada remarked:

 

The saffron robes and the shaven head are not essential, although they create a good mental situation, just as when a military man is dressed properly he gets energy--he feels like a military man. Does that mean that unless he is in uniform he cannot fight? No. In the same way, God consciousness cannot be checked--it can be revived in any circumstances--but certain conditions are helpful. Therefore we prescribe that you live in a certain way, dress in a certain way, eat in a certain way, and so on. These things are helpful for practicing Krsna consciousness, but they are not essential. (Meditation and the Self Within from Science of Self Realization, Chapter 5)

 

My point is that if the Krsna Consciousness movement develops to such an extent that some all even most of its external features are replaced with features of the local culture of a country where it has spread to, it might not be a bad thing --- as long as the essence and the fundamentals remain.

[leyh]

The above post was by me.Forgot to log in.

[tsaneladi]

I am inclined to agree with the above post. I see no harm in practitioners wearing the local flavor so thqt they may maintain themselves and further the effort of spreading the Vaisnava faith.

 

In so far as filling out forms, I dont believe this information is anyones business but my own so I don't share it.

[Somesh Kumar]

 

My point is that if the Krsna Consciousness movement develops to such an extent that some all even most of its external features are replaced with features of the local culture of a country where it has spread to, it might not be a bad thing --- as long as the essence and the fundamentals remain.

 

 

I agree fully with you here. If a person's mind and actions are devoted to Krsna then the external features are not required!