The Rosary

[Gauracandra]

I've heard of the new addition to the Rosary but haven't seen the actual "verses" themselves. Anyone know of the words to the additions? Here is a report from Religion & Ethics:

 

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Pope John Paul II began the 25th year of his papacy this week. The 82-year-old pope celebrated the anniversary of his election by praying for strength and urging new attention to the rosary, the Catholic tradition of prayers and meditation using a special string of beads. At a Vatican ceremony, John Paul proclaimed the next 12 months as the Year of the Rosary. And he added some new meditations -- the first major change in the rosary in nearly 500 years.

 

Catholics have used rosary beads to help keep count of their prayers for nearly a millennium. The set of prayers and meditations was standardized for the entire church in 1569. The rosary is divided into a series of repetitive prayers and reflections on Jesus' life, known as the mysteries. This week, John Paul added five new mysteries for meditation on Jesus' ministry. In this country, use of the rosary has diminished in recent years. But many Catholics say it's still part of their practice. We spoke with Harriet Noye of Wheaton, Maryland and her daughter Erin about what saying the rosary means to them.

 

HARRIET NOYE (reciting the rosary with her daughter and grandchildren): Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women.

 

When I pray the rosary, I like to think about the word "rosary.Rosary" means rose garden.

 

We ask Our Lady to lead us in this rosary tonight, to carry us into her rosary garden. We can walk around with her as we pray.

 

This is a very special rose garden, the Immaculate Heart of Mary. You retreat from the tensions and stress and anxiety and any problems that you have and put yourself in her Immaculate Heart.

One of the misconceptions that someone who is not Catholic has is that they think we are praying to Mary. We do not adore Mary. We do not worship Mary. We adore God and we worship God. We pray through Mary as an intercessor.

 

Every rosary should be blessed, by a priest.

 

As you pray, you move through the beads. You are able to slip your fingers along the beads and you know exactly when you get to these parts that are in between the Hail Mary and the Our Father, and you can close your eyes and just slip along the beads.

 

Give us the five glorious mysteries. The first glorious mystery is the resurrection. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

 

This day our daily bread.

 

Since the rosary is divided in three parts, a lot of people really just have time to pray one of the mysteries per day. On Mondays are the joyful mysteries, Tuesdays are the sorrowful mysteries, and Wednesdays are the glorious mysteries. And then it starts again. Thursday is joyful; Friday, sorrowful; and Saturday, glorious. Sundays, it depends on the season. If it's Advent, you're praying for joyful. If it's after Easter, glorious. And during Lent, sorrowful.

 

ERIN (Ms. Noye's daughter): I don't think I do pray as my mother does; she's much more in tune meditatively than I am with the rosary. I'm still a novice, if you will.

 

Ms. NOYE: I heard where people prayed the three mysteries of the rosary and I thought, "I'll never have time to do something like that. It would just take too long." So I made a little deal with God. I said, "I'll try. I'll really try. But if I can't do it, you know, I'll just stop and I'll go back to just one mystery a day." But I've had no trouble.

[sha]

<center><big>Counting Beads</big>

 

Know thou this secret :

nothing at all is gained

By counting over the polished beads of the rosary,

While the mind still wanders out into the world .

 

But if you turn the rosary of the mind,

Thy body will be full of light within.

 

Even if an age-long time is spent in turning the rosary,

The mind will never take a turn unto the Lord.

 

O brother! Throw aside the rosary in your hand,

And turn the rosary of your mind instead.

 

The rosary of the mind, declares Kabir,

Is the only rosary that is worth while.

 

The physical rosary is an empty show.

 

If by turning the rosary you could meet the Lord,

Why does the Persian wheel, Revolving day and night,

remain without the Lord?

 

In thy hand there turneth ever the beads of the rosary ;

In thy mouth there turneth the tongue;

Thy mind turneth in ten directions;

 

This, my dear friend, I say,

Is no remembrance of the Name of the Lord.

 

SANT KABIR

 

Hari Bol!

[theist]

 

"O brother! Throw aside the rosary in your hand,

And turn the rosary of your mind instead."

 

 

 

 

Follow Haridas Thakur instead.

The outer affects the inner.

The senses should remain engaged.

 

Yes we need to be conscious of the sound vibration when we chant.

But attentive chanting is not gained by tossing out Tulasi.

[leyh]

If a great soul like Haridas Thakura chanted with beads, who am I, a total neophyte, to throw my beads away?

 

 

[mahak]

Haribol. The new system does not change the rosary, but adds 5 new "rounds only. Previously, those who follow Mother Mary chanted 15 rounds daily, five dedicated to the glory of Mary, five dedicated to the glory of Jesus, and five dedicated to the tribulation of Jesus. The new five are dedicated to the spiritual potency of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

An interestiong sidenote for vaisnavas, a rosary can be nicely used as japa beads in an emergency. Here's how:

 

Disregard the cross and the beads outside the ring. The connecting medal can be used as the Krsna bead, where one offers obiesancies to the devotees and Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to protect one from offences while chanting.

 

This leaves five sets of ten "hail mary" beads and four "lords prayer" beads, a total of fifty four. Go around the loop twice and there are 108 "gopi" beads.

 

Wonderful coincidence, dontcha think?

 

Personally, the hail mary is a great praise of a topmost vaisnava, and the lords prayer is an initiation into spiritual life by lord jesus christ. Say the words with an open mind, without polluting the self with sectarianism, and presto! Spiritual benefit. Just opinion.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[theist]

Hey mahak, can you give the words to prayers that they chant?I'm real unclear still.Can anyone post a picture of the rosary beads?

 

Interesting to add that Srila Prabhupada said Mother Mary was the representative of Radharani.

[mahak]

From my website, I write the following concerning this prayer:

 

An excerpt from Lord Jesus Christ Katha

 

" This could be a test question for all the haughty so-called Vaisnavas who vilify the position of Lord Jesus Christ, either overtly or with subtlety.

 

Q.) Describe the purport of the following prayer, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed be thou amongst women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death."

 

A.) True rasa is demonstrated, as the Avatara descends at will, bringing His associates with Him as He pleases. Srimati Mary, by the strength of Her devotional service, has been granted the service to act as His Mother. Being nitya-siddha, Srimati Mary was not held accountable for any sour reaction from sinful activity, for she had none. She was, indeed, Immaculate, thus, from Her very conception in this world, a pure devotee of the Lord, in the rasa of parenthood.

 

The second part of this prayer is the example for all the world on the method of approaching the Lord, referred in other Shastra as "dasa, dasa, anudasa". One must seek out the servant of the servant of the Lord, begging for intercession, begging to somehow be engaged in this dasa, dasa, anudasa process. Such engagement will be so beneficial to the living being that he need not be so concerned by his mentality during the turmoil of the death experiance, for the relationship will be set in ones heart, the yoking (yoga) forever unbroken, so much so, that Srimati Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and He Who Sent Them, will be thinking of them. No artificial behavior involved. This prayer is an example of prema bhakti."

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

 

 

[theist]

Nice purport Mahak.

[mahak]

LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 1)

 

Haribol, all glories to the assembled devotees. All glories to Lord Jesus Christ, Sri Krsna's most confidential servant. This is His season, so I humbly pay tribute to his mission.

 

Lord Jesus Christ did not advertize himself, he did not even care to hear his disciples describe him as "my good rabbi", deferring the title "good" to be applied only to the One Who sent Him. The perfection of relationship between God and man was, thus, nicely displayed for those who have ears. Jesus wants ABBA, ELOI, JAHOVIA, His dearmost Father, advertized as the primary receptacle of our LOVE, to all segments of society, no matter whether one is of David and Solomon, or outside as Gentile, without desiring to become famous in His own right. Sri Krsna is so pleased with the work of His only begotten Son (see the creator, Lord Brahma, begotten from the lotus) that this Son has become the most famous human being throughout history, so much so that even the Buddhist atheist must acknowledge, the whole world is talking millenium madness, year 2000, all based on the appearance of this simple carpenter's son who befriended the fishers of men. If this is not yoga, rasa, yoking, then yoga has no meaning.

 

An important fact of Lord Jesus Christ's teachings can be applied to concern about potential Vaikuntha falldown, as follows. His disciples, who were, by the way, fully aware of transmigration of the soul, (another story, perhaps another day), asked Him if it was better to be at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord. Lord Jesus Christ answered by not choosing between the two, rather giving absolute Vaisnava instruction, "Whether at home with the Lord and away from the body or at home with the body and away from the Lord, our business is to SERVE THE LORD." Perfect and complete instructions, and, as such, these instructions are completely perfect. Bhakti-yoga is non-dependent of personal salvation, thus, even salvation and the liberation of becoming one with the Lord is rejected by the Vaisnava. So many (so-called) Christians, salvationists, do not have ears to hear from Him, all they want is a heaven lined with gold, not even necessarily wanting to be with Him, just unlimited and eternal enjoyment of their own selfish interest, me-me-me, yet at the time of His samadhi, Lord Jesus Christ went to hell to serve His Father's desires.

 

This is all contained in the very-tampered-with biblical scripture, yet there is enough true NECTAR left from Lord Jesus Christ's teachings that one is only foolish to reject Him. In tribute to Lord Jesus Christ, I shall publish here a story of His mission, with my head on the ground in obiesance to Srila Prabhupada, who gives us all access to His teachings.

 

LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 2)

 

Never is there harm in speaking about the Vaisnava, however, we must hear properly first before recitation, otherwise we mislead others with relative truth. The validity of scriptual evidence about Lord Jesus Christ's pastimes is always in question, because those entrusted with caretaking His message have allowed interpretation, editing, omission, and other dealings for two millenia. This is a hidden lesson all devotees should be in tune with, as this tendency continues within our own parampara.

 

Many devotees do not care to hear about Lord Jesus Christ, and their reasons are not altogether unfounded nor ill-advised, for the common beliefs about this important Acarya are mired in speculations of the mukti-bhukti habits common to man-made-religionists. Yet, even with this disclaimer of no pure sampradaya, Srila Prabhupada made clear points about Lord Jesus Christ that no one can deny. Had rejection of this devotee been the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, there would be no mention of His validity in his books. But this is not the case, and, as I do not provide citations to verify, I encourage all his followers to research his books to find out what he actually says about Him.

 

Two important prayers that have been relegated to children songs in this dark age of atheism describe the Mission of Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord's Prayer and the Hail Mary. The article below indicates the bhakti that can be realized from mere recitation of these prayers. Just as no one should speak on behalf of Srila Prabhupada if they cannot utter the Mahamantra, similarly, one should never comment on Lord Jesus Christ unless they FOLLOW His order and "Pray like Me, Our Father...". I will not write this prayer as we should all be familiar with the words.

 

Subserviant to the purport of Sri Siksastakam, the Divine Author, Sri Gauranga, and His representative, Sri Gurudeva, and bowing in obiesance with head on the ground, reciting the Lord's Prayer, all confusion ceases and one becomes dhira (unconfused).

 

Lord Jesus Christ gives mantra to all who will take, hallowed be the Names of Our Father. His mother, Mary, demonstrates intercession, rasa, and pure bhakti, and also gives us mantra, the Lord is with Her, She is full of Grace. This is proven by the guru-shastra-sadhu criteria, and their lives are present in Sound. The memory of the Nectar of Instruction, that which is carefully salvaged from the rubble of the schisms and interpretations of the pretender, is sufficient to deliver the swan-like devotees to him.

 

Lord Jesus Christ teaches Love of God without fear, without limitation, free from selfish interest. Bhukti (selfish world contentment) and mukti (desires to be free from misery) are not part of His teachings and are not the goals he tries to humbly show us for ultimate happiness, the only requirement is sincere surrender to the will of the Lord and reciprocation with His unconditional love.

 

Please hear. I cannot write this for the so-called christian, for they have no idea of rasa. They care not for the pleasure of Joseph looking down at the smiling Christ-child in his arms. All they can do is take some of His words to conquer the "heathens" and teach them to serve His shadow.

 

I beg forgiveness for offending some by singing His glories occasionally, but I cannot refrain from doing so. Suffice it to say, a Christian is as rare as a Vaisnava, and we all have had the great fortune of knowing both in one person, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

 

LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 3)

 

I do no such artificial deification of Lord Jesus Christ, yet try to hear from Him in light of acintya-bheda-bheda-tattva, that is, his purpose is non-different from whom he calls Abbah, Eloy, Jahovia, etc. Lord Jesus Christ's mission is consistant with his being sent by the Supreme Lord. Read on for clarifications.

 

THE MAGI -c-1995-mahaksadasa

 

Two thousand years ago, three mystic travelers practicing worship of the Supreme Lord, became enlightened by this service. Through the science of astrological calculations, this Object of their worship led them from Kurdistan, Afghanistan, and India, to Bayt Lahm. Gathering spices, exotic resins, and gold for sacrificial offering, they were led to the birthsite of a simple newborn in very humble surroundings. Although a royal heir to both Davidian and Solomonic branches of the dynasty of Israel, this child was born in bondage to Rome. Yet, because these three travelers were devoted to the Lord, they were led to His most confidential servant, Lord Jesus Christ. Celebrating his birth with sweet honour, they returned to their homes, not at all deviating from the religion which satisfied their desires for redemption. They knew of NO King James, Aquinas, nor of Christian Coalitions, yet they practiced yoga, became unified in purpose and service to the one Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Many of today's so-called christians are very uncomfortable with a description of the Maji and their religious practices. They are more uncomfortable with historical data concerning Lord Jesus Christ's appearance, his Essene religious practice of healing arts, his travels between the ages of twelve to thirty, etc. For some strange reason, they say God incarnated as His son and studied carpentry for more than half his years on earth.

 

These same people have elevated a demoniac King James of England to a position of spiritual authority, thus impersonalizing the greatest of philosophers. Lord Jesus Christ never says that he IS his Father, and when his disciples tried to exalt his position, he always defers to his Father. By nullifying the Father, one nullifies the son and the wonderful relationship existing between Father and Son, the relationship Lord Jesus Christ tries to share with the world.

 

The present christianity espoused by the bigoted, unloving, uncaring materialists is not only useless, it is most offensive to those desiring to follow the precepts of Lord Jesus Christ. Using the banner of the cross (the weapon used to kill him), they villify the followers of Muhammed, Sri Chaitanya, and others who are not against their so-called lord. They say that Jesus is the absolute, only salvation, whereas Lord Jesus Christ admonishes his disciples' criticisms of outsiders, saying, "Those not against are with us."

 

Fanatics want to convert by force and coersion. Lord Jesus Christ converts by free choice and love. Those who think christians are better and more loved by God than others who are more oriented to His purpose and devoted to the Lord are offenders to the Holy Names and are rejected. Lord Jesus speaks of loving enemies, what to speak of loving his children who lovingly call Him by other Names.

 

Lord Jesus Christ is the son of David via Joseph, and the son of Solomon via the maternity of Mary, the Axumite Hebrew. Scripture concerning his early travels exist in Bengal, Tibet, Yucatan, Iraq, etc., yet King James hid them from his professional writers contracted to translate. A concoction called "trinity" has been placed in the minds of modern christians, frustrated into calling Him a "mystery".

 

Although trinity is clear, that is, three distinct and separate aspects of divinity, (internal, external, and marginal potencies), singular in purpose, an impersonalist hodgepodge philosophy which keeps all people away from the Lord is in place. If the son IS the Father, then neither can exist. The truth is clear, only the concoctions by the king are "mysterious".

 

Lord Jesus Christ teaches to develop our love with his Father, and the Father, via Paramatma (holy spirit), teaches us internally to love His son as His Own. Simple. Render to the king what is his, taxes, honour, etc., but spiritual authority placed on unworthy persons is eternal suicide.

 

LORD JESUS CHRIST KATHA (part 4)

 

The only clarity of my life exists in the hearing and chanting of Harinama, thus rekindling rememberance of the lila-guna rupa namnam of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Continuance of a program, founded by Srila Prabhupada, to further his mission of spreading this hearing and chanting of Harinama to the mass of suffering people bound by forgetfulness, asleep in the lap of the witch called Maya, as the great song goes. What is pleasing to Srila Prabhupada is that we adopt this process as our life and soul, our reason for existance.

 

Did Srila Prabhupada request us to change our religion? He did not, for the Holy Names of God, when uttered aloud to musical accompanyment or softly whispered in meditation, only serves to perfect one's religion. From my view, and I am definitely not criticizing any devotee of Krsna, a change from Christianity to ISKCONism, or from Judahism to another Vaisnava philosophically draped ecclesiastical system is not warranted, nor attractive, to one who relishes the purport and example set by Sri Gurudeva. Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam........

 

ISKCON has great facility to train up disciples to send on the streets and in the homes of the poor sleepers, to give them, on behalf of Srila Prabhupada, the gifts he has kindly given us. If those who maintain the temples are dedicated to this, I have no quarrel with them, but to those who want to have their positions fortified by the utilization of resources of such a facility, such resources are misspent, greatly displeasing to Srila Prabhupada.

 

I read quotations all the time, who said what, when, why, but this cannot displace what Srila Prabhupada has imparted unto me, that is, even if all fall down, his disciple must stand, even if alone. I judge with my feet, as he kindly ordered me. My last contact with ISKCON was ten years ago, the day the Amerikans slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in retreat, supposedly protected by Geneva Rules of Engagement. I visited a crumbling Vancouver facility, on a Sunday morning, with my family. No greeting, no prasadam, I had to hunt for a devotee to sell me a book, no friendliness. But I was not disturbed, because, as I saw Tulasi Devi thriving in a carefully protected small area reserved for Her, I knew that a Vaisnava disciple of my Guru Maharaja lived there, therefore, I do NOT criticize those living in the shelter established by my Guru Maharaja. But what can be said of the conditions of the temples left by Srila Prabhupada, did he leave no funds? Did he leave us helpless, without FOUNDATION?

 

No he did not. He left the management to those who would usurp and squander on the guru game, and their offenses had the effect of embarassing all the true Vaisnavas of the world. This is not his loss of control, this has all been His Divine Grace, ripping away all the glitter from our eyes so we may see the truth, that is, Harinama, Harinama, Harinama, eva kevelam.........

 

Srila Prabhupada is much more than the buildings he left, he is Jagat Guru, leader of David and Solomon followers, leader of the true followers of the Christ Jesus, as His Samkirtana leader, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, did before him, he uses Qoran to defeat the Kazi. Non-denominational, giving up all varieties of religion, he asks us to surrender to Sri Krsna by the process of Harinama Samkirtana.

 

The fighting spirit between the devotees may go on forever, just see the combatants on the plain of Kuruksetra, all devotees, yet no deal, no cooperation. But can we afford it?

 

I have recently been appreciating my Christian heritage, albeit originally devoid of any knowledge of bhakti, for the Bhagavad Gita As It Is was omitted from the concordex, now there is so much understanding. Bear with me while I try to continue.

 

Srila Prabhupada took on Lord Buddha, defeating all His "No self theories", destroyed the nirvisesavada philosophy of Lord Siva in his Shankaracarya incarnation, yet there is no indication at all of Srila Prabhupada not wholeheartedly accepting the teachings of Lord Jesus Christ, his only displeasure is that the Christians do not FOLLOW Him. The reason for this is that Lord Jesus Christ's mission is not unlike that of Srila Prabhupada, to engage the sleeping souls in the practice of bhakti, hearing and singing the Names of the Supreme Being.

 

This could be a test question for all the haughty so-called Vaisnavas who vilify the position of Lord Jesus Christ, either overtly or with subtlety.

 

Q.) Describe the purport of the following prayer, "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed be thou amongst women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death."

 

A.) True rasa is demonstrated, as the Avatara descends at will, bringing His associates with Him as He pleases. Srimati Mary, by the strength of Her devotional service, has been granted the service to act as His Mother. Being nitya-siddha, Srimati Mary was not held accountable for any sour reaction from sinful activity, for she had none. She was, indeed, Immaculate, thus, from Her very conception in this world, a pure devotee of the Lord, in the rasa of parenthood.

 

The second part of this prayer is the example for all the world on the method of approaching the Lord, referred in other Shastra as "dasa, dasa, anudasa". One must seek out the servant of the servant of the Lord, begging for intercession, begging to somehow be engaged in this dasa, dasa, anudasa process. Such engagement will be so beneficial to the living being that he need not be so concerned by his mentality during the turmoil of the death experiance, for the relationship will be set in ones heart, the yoking (yoga) forever unbroken, so much so, that Srimati Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and He Who Sent Them, will be thinking of them. No artificial behavior involved. This prayer is an example of prema bhakti.

 

Anyway, I had to share these thoughts, but I did not just want to throw them around, because I am sure that many would scoff, asking for "vedic" proof of what I say, questioning the Divinity of the Christ. (Without the philosophy of acintya bheda bheda tattwa, there is NO understanding of any shastra.) His divinity is clear in his purpose, for his will and the will of Sri Govinda are the same, thus the term AVATAR is quite appropriate.

 

Tough, here in the outback, but simple does not always translate to easy. Falldowns are always surrounding us, yet there is no artificial way to avoid the problems presented by the mind, others, and natural events, regardless of how one is temporarily situated. The challenge is what it is all about. It is like, "Today, I am going to dive deeper into my relationship with the one who loves me more than I can ever repay." For the initiated, this is an oath, a promise to honor (reciprocate) commitment, we promise to abide by Sri Vaisnava's instructions. This promise burns in the heart of the disciple, so much so, that even though falldowns are daily occurances, even hourly, the effect of the problem is that sincere desire for atonement outweighs the evil effects. Not the artificial confessional some movements create, not the willful Vaisnava aparadha of committing sinful acts thinking that forgiveness for such action is autoimatically guaranteed, but actual humility, disciple firmly becoming the dust on the street, underneath the straw. This taste, this understanding of our precarious position on the lap of Maya, is a rasa unto itself, aghast and dread.

 

How do we fix it, no matter if in the center of population with peers present or in the outback, in isolation, imprisoned, exiled, avadhuta, To follow the process of Harinama Haribol. If you gamble or mentally speculate (surrender to the thoughts produced by the mind), you lose the quality of truthfulness. If you eat forbidden, unclean foodstuffs, you cannot live simply and austerity is not even seen as a desireable thing to possess. If you intoxicate yourself, you cannot forgive, you have no mercy, you cannot say the Lord's prayer without changing the part about asking God to forgive you as you forgive tresspasses against you. If you are indiscriminate in sensual relationships, there cannot be any cleanliness in your life, even if you can avoid std's.

 

The restrictions presented by Srila Prabhupada are scientific, to follow means to strengthen one's spiritual position by naturally becoming clean, austere, truthful, and merciful to others. Simple, but not easy. The gift is the Holy Names of Sri Govinda, especially Sri Hrsikesa. When He hears This Name, He specifically takes charge of one's desire to attempt compliance with the prescription given by the good Physician, Sri Gurudeva, and He cuts the habits, He makes them more profoundly bitter, increases the understanding of the sincere disciple, of the necessity of strengthening these four pillars of the mansion He has designed for us. Every day is a challenge, today, alone, but not noticibly greater that when cloistered in temple life years ago.

 

There is mental compliance that may be valueless, that is, attraction by anger. Some may become upset that others are not in complete compliance. They hate the restrictions, and they envy the blooper who smokes dope, only because they want to smoke dope, but cannot due to their overbearing religious ritual. What good are these empty cups? Srila Prabhupada never taught voidism, false renunciation, jada yoga, or any other "empty cup" philosophies. He empties the storehouse of prema-bhakti in service to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and distributes It's contents, to us, to fill our cups, and as we taste more and more, and want more and more, the poison in our cups is diluted, purified, and gradually brought to the position that only the bhakti remains, so much so, that we MUST distribute in his service ourselves. This is his truth, "Oh my Lord, Your Holy Name, ALONE, renders all benediction upon the living beings. Therefore You have Hundred and Millions of Names, like Sri Govinda, Sri Gopala. Unfortunate am I, for I have no attraction."

 

Respect is shown when a writer re-reads his material to check for errors. It is not just a writing, the consciousness should be that of making a preparation of prasadam for the Lord and His associates, not just throwing lunch together for our own tongue's devourment.

 

As far as content goes, I, too, at times, struggle through it all. But have not devotees been told to shut up for too long?

 

Srila Prabhupada never said that we must prop up an artificial religion based on Varna-asrama Dharma, he requested that we try to cooperate with each other. Long ago, long before internet, I decided that a certain society was not my cup of nectar, I was not anxious to experiance such. Controlled my ears with my feet, but where did that leave me?

 

Alone. At home in the body and away from the Lord. Yet Lord Jesus Christ says, no matter, serve the Lord. At work, with family and friends. The Holy Names Alone render all benediction among the living beings, we must become more attracted. If dirty laundry appears on this page, one who follows in the footsteps of the Vaisnava Acarya will humbly clean and purify, for that is his mission.

 

 

[Sirona]

Haribol,

I have gone through a difficult several year long transformation from Catholic to a follower of bhakti yoga. In my eyes it is O.K. if one just likes to say the Rosary without taking the rest, but in Catholic practice the Rosary is inseparably connected to suffering and death (of Jesus Christ), while the Hare Krishna maha mantra is not connected to such negative emotions. I am not one of the sixteen rounds guys, but if its appropriate I sometimes find myself humming Hare Krishna "just like that". I could not have imagined myself reciting Hail Mary for enjoyment.

[theist]

Sirona if you have the time would you mind walking us through a round on the rosary beads.You know the exact prayers offered the number of times etc.

 

Thank you

[Gauracandra]

Sirona wrote:

 

Catholic practice the Rosary is inseparably connected to suffering and death

 

 

Thank you for writing this because it somewhat confirms a theory I've had regarding Catholics being attracted to Krsna Consciousness. I believe there are a number of similarities, not the least of which is "idol" worship. However, the worship of Radha and Krsna is devoid of the pain and suffering that Christ went through. Much of Catholic theology revolves around blood, pain, and suffering, and eventual overcoming of these. My theory is that Catholics find in Radha and Krsna something similar but different and so are attracted. The very practice of the Rosary and chanting Japa are similar.

 

I've tried finding a website on the Rosary that clearly explains allthe components, but can't seem to find one that is very good. Each one seems to talk about some aspect, but none go from top to bottom, step 1, step 2 etc....

 

Here is a brief run down (not including the latest mysteries of light, which I just can't seem to find anything on; maybe they are making it up as we talk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

 

There are fifteen mysteries in all which are divided into three sets of mysteries: the joyful mysteries, the sorrowful mysteries and the glorious mysteries.

 

The joyful mysteries can all be located in the first two chapters of the Gospel of Luke in the Bible. The joyful mysteries are:

 

The angel's annunciation of Christ's coming

Mary's visit to Elizabeth

The birth of Christ

Jesus' presentation in the temple as an infant, and

Finding the boy Jesus in the temple.

The sorrowful mysteries can be found in the last chapters of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke. The mysteries are:

 

Christ's agony in the garden

His scourging

His being crowned with thorns

Christ carrying the cross, and

His crucifixion and death.

The glorious mysteries can be found in the last chapter of the Gospel of Luke, the second chapter of the Book of Acts, and Revelation 12. They are:

 

Christ's resurrection

His ascension into heaven

The sending of the Holy Spirit

Mary's assumption into heaven, and

Mary's coronation in heaven.

All of these mysteries have been affirmed by the Church throughout history.

 

 

[mahak]

Haribol, sorona. Yes, it is unfortunate that a whole theology is based on murder, assassination, and suffering. But one must consider the actual history, the actual teachings of the philosopher that a philosophy is based on.

 

In the christian (Catholic) matter, it is unfortunate that political coercion has taken place, through the councils, through the book burnings, through the revisionism. All of this is not a surprise, though, it is better called sectarianism, which is the last snare keeping the self away from actual spiritual life.

 

One who wants the real without the contrived, they must eventually reject all sectarianism in favor of obtaining actual absolute truth from the acaryas, those who exhibit actual transcendental love of God. Mary, Lord Jesus Christ, and a few others in christian history actually are acaryas in every sense of the term. Such hooking-up means rejecting most if not all of those who claim the same masters. What Jesus says is quite different than what is said that he said, or how he is translated through the consciousnesses of popes, apostles, and others who may have other motivations than the original acaryas.

 

The componants of the rosary (back to the topic) are the Lord's Prayer, and the Hail Mary. These two prayers are powerful if the reciter is sincere about spiritual life. If the prayers are mechanically performed, (as Sirona accurately describes the Catholic idealism), the effect may be short-circuited.

 

The mahamantra is not immune from mechanical shortfalls. Though there is concession in the kanistha stage for offense while chanting Hare Krsna, the mahamantra has effect when chanted with full attention, without concern for numbers to impress others, without concern for anything other than the sound vibration from the tongue, lips, to the ears.

 

So, again I ask that Vaisnavas consider the actual potency of the prayers of the Rosary itself, without regard for the politics of ruined and useless religions.

 

The so-called morbidity of the emphasis of suffering is not to be rejected either, for this may be the price needed to be paid for spiritual life. When one decides to be a Bhakti Yoga practitioner, they declare war on everything around them, social, political, even natural forced ready for attack of such avowed enemies. The sorrowful mysteries of suffering is not necessarily a means of a Catholic weiping all their bloody karma off on Jesus, rather a teaching that to fulfill the terms of initiation by Lord Jesus Christ means that we take up such a cross ourselves, and even take on others as well in the service of Mary and Jesus.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Sirona]

 

A rosary chaplet is composed of a chain with five groups of 10 "Hail Mary" grains, separated by four "Our Father/ Glory" grains between them. Instead of the 5th "Our father" grain there is a little plate, often showing Mary on the one and the Sacred Heart of Jesus on the other. Attached to the plate there is a "tail", again with one "Our Father/Glory" grain, three "Hail Mary" grains, and another "Glory" grain. At the end there is a cross with Christ Crucified.

 

You may start taking the cross into your hand or touching your frout, heart and shoulders with the rosary (forming a cross).

 

Catholics say: *In the name of the Father, of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen*

 

Then race down all the doctrines about Jesus established by the Church (called Apostles' Creed)

*I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He arose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting. Amen.*

 

Them move to the first bigger grain, say the "Our Father":

 

*Our father, who art in heaven; hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Amen.*

 

Move forward to the three "Hail Mary" grains, saying each time:

 

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.*

 

Meditate about faith, love and hope repectively.

 

When arriving at the next bigger grain, say

*Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.*

 

Then you may say the prayer revealed to the kids in Fatima (optional):

 

*"O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy."*

 

Keep in mind, the Our Father "introduces" a series of "Hail Mary" prayers, and the Glory (+ Fatima prayer) concludes it. According to this rule, say a new "Our Father", still keeping your finger on the last grain of the "tail", then move to the first "Hail Mary" grain in the "circle". Say ten "Hail Mary"s, moving from grain to grain. When arrived at the next bigger grain, "Glory" + Fatima prayer + "Our father" for a new series. And so on.

 

When you are done with it, you should have arrived at the plate where you began.

 

The rosary is traditionally concluded with the prayer "Salve Regina" which follows here:

 

*HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

 

 

V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.

R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Let us pray. O GOD, whose only begotten Son, by His life, death, and resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech Thee, that meditating upon these mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ Our Lord. Amen.*

 

So far for how the Rosary is prayed terms. Now something on the content:

 

Each series of ten "Hail Mary"s forms a Mystery (thanks for enumerating above). Keep it in mind during the series or speak it out between the "Our father" and the first of the group of ten "Hail Mary"s, or add it like that:

 

Example:

*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus,

WHOSE COMING WAS ANNOUNCED TO YOU BY THE ANGEL GABRIEL.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.*

[Sirona]

One either prays the "Joyful" or the "Sorrowful" or the "Glorious" Mysteries. It is a little bit difficult to explain what is wrong with the "joyful" and the "glorious" mysteries, especially to non-Catholics. It seems to me that when they look at Mary all they see is a nice young lady with a cute baby. But behind all this there stands the suffering and death of Jesus, and even more grave, the humans' guilt that led to the suffering of Jesus. I do not want to play down that people may commit horrible things, but church makes quite a nice hobby from putting the burden of guilt upon the shoulders of its adepts. If there was no guilt (sin) there definitely would not be no Church any more. Jesus suffered for YOU to preserve you from the RAGE of God and so on. Making people feel guilty is what makes the Church work. It is very hard to explain that specific sickening atmosphere of self-pity I have felt in a Catholic church. It can make people really sick. To my humble knowledge, in bhakti there is no space for such emotions.

This all is a very complex topic. In fact I could spend my time writing all time, but I'll stop here. Maybe other posters could raise some new aspects.

Peace to all.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sirona,

 

I was going to say quite a bit more, and in fact did, but my fingers slipped and I lost my entire post!

 

My wife is Catholic and I am a practicing Gaudiya Vaishnava. We have much in common. Unity in diversity.

 

Vaishanva's draw inspiration from 'negative impetuses' as well (ie. guilt). Look at the 5th canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam for a list of hells and sufferings metted out to souls who chose certain types of actions in this life - the idea being, of course, avoid this type of behavior if you wish to avoid this type of suffering.

 

Maybe a bit closer to the guilt idea in Catholicism is the humility idea in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. For many, especially in begining stages of spiritual development, it is artificial and contrived at best. Statements such as 'I am so fallen' ring hollow without true spiritual experience. Expressions of guilt are also quite hollow without tangible experience. Yet, our great Acharyas have expressed themselves with such humility it is painful to think of such things. For instance if you read Caitanya Charitamrita you will find that Krsnadasa Kaviraja has expressed that he is lower than the worms in stool?

 

As far as guilt goes, I think maybe we Gaudiyas can claim to be more 'guilt ridden' than Catholics because while the concepts of orignal sin and beginingless karma seem similar on the face, there is one big difference - karma implies a conscious choice on our part at some far removed 'time immemorial' point, whereas orginal sin implies that ultimately you are not responsible.

 

Your servant,

Audarya lila dasa

[Gauracandra]

Thanks Sirona for that detailed description of the Rosary. Also, I agree with Audarya Lila about 'guilt' in Gaudiya Vaisnavism (esp. re: 5th Canto). Not to side track the issue (on Rosary) but I have heard that Madhvaism deals or incorporates a lot in terms of hell and eternal damnation. Anyone with details on this (perhaps start another thread)?

[mahak]

Haribol. This looks like a good place to discuss "guilt". Modern psychology tries to make guilt into a bad thing, but it is actually a function of communication between chaita guru and the self. To disregard guilt feelings is to ignore the entire guru-tattwa process.

 

Modernism and secular humanism artificially get rid of the "witness" bird in the tree. So, if theology is pollutede by these materialistic theories, havoc is spiritual quest is guaranteed.

 

Im guilty as charged, as felt internally, and I need help from all the acaryas, Mary and her Son Jesus Christ as well. If they will kindly intercede and intervene, it is my greatest fortune.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa 11-14-77