A transcendental dilemma

leyh · November 1, 2002

I was born about half a year after His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada dpearted from this material world. I never got to meet him on the physical plane, but I have had the great fortune to associate with Srila Prabhupada through his writings and recordings and I really feel that he is the spiritual master who has opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge.Without Srila Prabhupada, I would not have known anything about Krsna.

But still I hesitate --- is it proper for me to say that Srila Prabhupada is my guru? Although I am trying to followhis instructions, I am still unable to perfectly keep the 4 regulative principles and I am only chanting eight rounds a day (half of the minimum Srila Prabhupada set for his disciples). Yet I have the audacity to think of Srila Prabhupada as my guru (in the sense of siksha guru) because I can't help it. Most of my knowledge of Krsna Consciousness comes from him.Without him, my attempts to become Krsna Conscious would probably have begun.

So is Srila Prabhupada my guru? Can I honestly say to someone I've met:"My guru, His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada..."? While it is true that I have taken almost all my infomation about Krsna from Srila Prabhupada, I am still unable to conform to the standards that Srila Prabhupada has set for his disciples.

I humbly submit this transcendental dilemma before the assembled devotees.

Punkech · November 1, 2002

Hare Krishna

All I can say is that at least you are aspiring to be a humble devotee of Lord Krishna, and 8 rounds is better that none or 1!, as far as th 4 regs are concerned the easiest I find are No Meat etc, No Gambling, the rest ae difficult but try to cut down on the rest of the reg priciples and you'll find you devotion grow, plus I think you need a living Guru to make progress in spritual life and when Srila Prabhupada was present on the planet he rejected many people, but if you are determined to make SP your guru then Lord Krishna will help you and hopefully me too!

Jahnava Nitai Das · November 1, 2002

Anyone who sincerely tries to follow Srila Prabhupada's teachings is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. A guru is not just someone who has performed a ritualistic ceremony for you, but someone who delivers you from darkness with spiritual knowledge.

Srila Prabhupada was once asked whether it was enough for the public to read Srila Prabhupada's books (through book distribution) or if they actually had to come and get initiated from him to receive real benefit. Srila Prabhupada's reply was, "By reading my books they become initiated."

The transcendental connection between Srila Prabhupada and his followers goes beyond the physical association one has with him.

This does not mean that one should not find a sadhu to receive initiation from and to render service to, but that our link with Srila Prabhupada is already established simply by following his divine instructions.

leyh · November 2, 2002

Thank you JNdas and Punkech Prabhus for your kind replies.

Regarding my number of rounds chanted daily, I am trying to set a standard of eight minimum rounds. Sometimes I manage to do a little more, but usually I can manage eight. Of course this amount is nowhere near Srila Prabhupada's standard, but my goal is to eventually hit 16.

If only I had more taste for following Srila Prabhupada's instructions. My spiritual life has been a succession of lows followed by a few occasional highs. Still I am grateful with what I have so far. I would have no spiritual life if not for His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

theist · November 2, 2002

leyh,

I have wrestled with similar questions having never accepted formal initiation by His Divine Grace.This is what I have come to and it works well for me.

I see SP as Jagad-guru.That includes me.I learn from what he taught so to that measure he is my teacher(guru).Somtimes I follow all his basic qualifications for discipleship, but mostly I don't so I never apply the term disciple to myself.

I have come to see that this question is mostly relevant only in how I should be perceived by others.Especially around temples etc. people always ask "Who is your guru",even before they ask your name.This strikes me as somewhat superfical, and leads to the temptation of false posturing.I tend to like the outside position.I have become comfortable with the designation of fallen soul.Just a fallen soul who is finding light in the teaching of His Divine Grace.If anyone comes to associate me with a guru then let that be from what they see in the life that I lead.Actions are louder than words.I have become free from the external social pressures this way,which gives me more mind space for dealing with the internal pressures that push me on to real spiritual growth.

The real importance is how Krsna and His devotees view us.

Haribol

leyh · November 2, 2002

Dear Theist:

Like you, I hesitate to think of myself as Srila Prabhupada's disciple but I am not so hesitant to think of him as my Guru. Because if not for him, I would have no knowledge of Krsna. A kind of paradox here. Maybe it's what I will have to live with.

You right. Srila Prabhupada is Jagad-Guru. His position is such that he is still able to instruct people all over the world although he has disappeared from mundane vision. His writings and recordings are easily accessible on an international level for the whole world to benefit. In this way, he acts as Jagad-Guru

I'm not saying that we shouldn't approach a living guru --- if Krsna leads us to one.However, Srila Prabhupada's Jagad-Guru position is unique.

Srila Prabhupada: That is a fact. For example, if you are an animal of the land and you are thrown into the water, you cannot be happy in water in any condition. When you are again taken up a the land, then you'll be happy. Similarly, we are part and parcel of Krsna. We cannot be happy without being part and parcel of Krsna. The same example: the machine part, without the machine, has no value, but when it is again put into the machine it has value. We are part of Krsna; we must join Krsna. And you can join Krsna immediately by your consciousness, simply by thinking, "I am Krsna's, Krsna is mine:' That's all.

Bob: What is that? Krsna is...

Srila Prabhupada:Krsna is mine.

Bob: Mine?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Mine. My Krsna.

Bob: Ah.

Srila Prabhupada: Krsna is mine. Krsna is mine.

Bob: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: And I am Krsna's. That is our actual position. (Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, Chapter 5)

If Krsna is actually ours, then it can also be said that His pure devotee is also ours --- as ever well-wisher, friend and guide on our journey back home, back to Godhead.