One God!

[Guest guest]

I was asked by a person about this:

 

 

In Vedas it is stated:

ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti

 

"There is one supreme God, and the learned people describe him in various ways."

[theist]

In an attempt to accomodate everyone by advaita you end up nullifying everyone in the end. All for the sake of applying some salve to the temporaryly irritated sentiments of the followers.

 

It is Lord Caitanya's philosophy that really is all inclusive.

 

ps Christ is Son of Krsna.

[Guest guest]

Actually God has no name.By no name we mean he has many names.We give him names according to his qualities.

 

There are a variety of names which the scriptures of many religions present as names of God. There are also many conceptions of God ranging from one of a formless spirit to that of an old man with a beard sitting on a throne.

 

According to the Vedic literature, amongst the unlimited names of God the principle name is Krishna which means "all attractive". The original all blissful form of God is the fountainhead of all incarnations such as Lord Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha. Krishna is the father of whom Lord Jesus spoke of. Interestingly the word "Christian" comes from Krishna. As a child is given the last name of the father, Jesus was given the last name Christ of which the original Greek/Aramaic pronunciation is "Khristos".

 

So God or Krishna same thing.The supreme person is saying "I am supreme" so what is the problem in this?and also supreme is one without a second.There is one God and innumerable living entities.His multi energies has names too like shiva(time factor),durga(mother nature),etc.Christ is the "guru" principle which removes darkness of ignorance when the time is right.

 

The theory that there are many so called Gods,that we are God and great beings like earth,sun,etc are Gods is false.We are manifestations of the supreme living force,that is to say we are his parts and parcels equal in quality but not in quantity.God is ocean we are drops both made up of the same spiritual composition(light or conciousness,bliss,eternity).

 

hope this satisfies you.

joy

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thought I would mention this.On the absolute level God,his incarnations,his sons,his representatives all are on same platform but that doesn't mean they have become God...No.God is still greater...the master.We are all his servants and when desire to serve awakens then our real life begins.

 

joy

[Guest guest]

there is a difference with the advaitans, they believe

that eventually you will lose your self identity and become one with God, They believe ultimatlly God is not

to be related to in a person to person relationship

as the other faiths believe.

 

So yes God has many names, but that does not mean that

allah and Krishna and jesus are the same God.

 

for example muslims believe that Allah condones the stoning to death of an adulterer, We do not accept

god as being such a tyrant, so to me allah of the muslims,is not a name of God, but a name of what some people BELIEVE to be God, while if some uses the word Allah

for God and respect mercy and compassion for all,

then Allah becomes a true name for God.

 

Just like in India, many believe Satya Sai Baba is God,

yet I reject his name as a name of God although many may accept it.

 

And Jesus never claimed to be God, only his followers,

so i do not accept the name Jesus as a name of God,

just because some people may have faith that some one is God, say your next door neighbor, doesn't mean that I should accept.

 

[Guest guest]

Actually there is the oringial cause and from Him so many other causes have come like circles on the water of a lake.

The oringal cause has created the numberous other causes all comming from Him

 

Krishna is the name which has been given to the original cause Out of His sweet will by His disire everything have become manifested.

 

It is not possible for us to understand the oringal cause Krishna we can only hear from the scriptures which themselves can only briefly discribe aspects of His nature and from the saintly person who present Him to us.

 

The Saintly persons have personal realization of Him and can reveal Him by planting love for Him in the hearts of non envious hearers.

 

Once we have even small attachment for Him we will never lose this and if we faithfully serve and please Saintly persons that love will grow untill we attain the highest perfection of allways remenbering Him and never forgetting Him.

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

Krsna is the source of all incarnations.

[sukadeva]

Nice name Rhyme of Samuel.

[spiritualsri]

You say that the advaitins dont believe that humans are part of the supreme. Advaitins believe that the Jeevaatma & the Paramaatma are the same. But one thing that I didnt understand in your message is which philosophy do you follow. You are not following either the Advaita philosophy, nor the Dvaita philosophy. I say this because, then later in your message you say that you cannot tolerate Jesus or Allah as your GOD. When Advaita says that all are GODs only that they dont know. After they know it, they will have to realize it. Krishna in the Bhagavad gita says very clearly that HE is present in every human being. So I feel that if your neighbour is worth worshipping, then there is no hard & fast rule saying that you shouldnt. Also why did Swami Ramakrishna paramahamsa worship his wife? Was she not just another human being?

 

I may not be all that right, but I think someone can refine what I have said.

[Guest guest]

 

 

I didn't say that about the advaitans, re -read please.

 

About the name allah, or Jesus, it is the concept behind the name

that empowers it.

 

If a person chants the name of Krishna while thinking

about gaining power to dominate over others, then that name

is not infused with god.

 

The same for allah or Jesus, if your concept of allah is of a godwho demands you to abuse others in his name, then that is not infused with Gods energy.

 

The name Jesus may have potency depending on the concept behind it also, while I may not accept Jesus as an incarnation of God, that is my personal choice,

if someone else does accept ,then the concept is important, what is the desire and mentality of the person using that name, that is empowering the name,

If you think that Jesus is giving you empowerment

to abuse others in his name ,then the name is not empowered by God.

[Guest guest]

yes we all are one.God is present everywhere as supersoul.God is a very great soul and his inteligence is unlimited.We are also God.I mean minute God.He controls us in every way.He is our best friend and because of him we live.He is superconciousness.After death if souls merge into God then they also become God or in other sense they achieve superconciousness by dovetailing their soul with the supersoul.

 

We follow the philosphy of Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam.Oneness and difference at the same time.

 

Oneness=We are equal to God in quality.

Difference=In quantity we are not equal to God.We are like sparks and God is a giant sun.

 

We are not independent.It is in our best interest to work according to his plan.We are here to work for God.When one realizes he is not master but servant he becomes very happy.This is a fact.He has no more worry and anxiety.

 

We are minute particles of conciousness that's why we have a tendency to fall in ignorance.God never falls.His plan never fails.He is the source of all life and joy.

 

Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you." - Isaiah 43:1-2

 

"Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!" - Jesus Christ from Matthew 25:21

 

God bless you all.

Joy

 

 

[Guest guest]

hi spiritualsri,

loving one another is part of a higher purpose.it is to love God.if we keep God in center then every soul is our brother and sister.nobody is human being,animal,demon,etc.we are souls...the same self resides everywhere.Superself is God.Under his protection his children play and learn.servants of God are as good as he.we worship them for they show us the path to light.ramakrishna worshipped his wife to get her mercy and blessings.we should think ourselves very lowly and depend on the mercy of God.otherwise not hearing his message we are lost.Only God is above all ignorance and when a person comes in touch with his pure devotee he also becomes perfect.God is first person,original,full of knowledge and love and source of all that is.

 

Lord Jesus Christ commanded,love God and love thy neighbour.Without love knowledge is 2 bits worth.Paul put it this way "knowledge puffs up but love builds up."

 

Haribol!

Joy

[debbie]

Shiva,

As usual, you confuse me.I know I am new at this, and I do not know alot of scriptures,etc..to base anything that I say as the rest of the posters, are advanced in this subject, and can do so. From what I hear, Krishna and God are the one and the same, Father of Jesus Christ, as viewed by most people.I am really confused, because I thought different people had different names for the Supreme Being..I hope someone can clarify and tell me exactly how it really is for sure. As for me, even though, I am not a "born again Christian", I have always believed in God as being the Highest Power, and that Jesus, his son was born from a virgin, Mary. As for the different names of God,I had just thought these were names that were used,depending on where you lived. Maybe I have been wrong, but that was and still is much of what I believe now.I also realize I am trying to follow a different path than the people around me follow in regards to religion, but somehow I feel I am still trying to find the same God, whether we call him Krishna or God. Please correct me if you think I am wrong in my beliefs. Debbie

[theist]

debbie,

 

Your understanding is 100% in line with what A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami taught on the subject. Feel secure in your present understanding.

[Guest guest]

hey now deb,

 

what exactly ,confused you ?

[debbie]

Shiva,

After reading your post several times, I could in some way see a little understanding what you were talking about.If I did, you were saying if someone uses God,Krishna,or whatever, their name they call God,in a way that says they are giving them the enpowerment to do something that is cruel, and evil, they are not empowered by that name. Maybe I had misunderstood you before, because it had seemed, to me, you were talking in circles.For me, I still believe that Jesus was born upon this earth, to try to make the people conscious of God, and to help them in spiritual advancement.You have your beliefs and I have mine.

Debbie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[debbie]

Theist,

Thanks,I thought I had the correct understanding, but I was not sure, because I guess it more of a feeling inside, instead of written proof. I know sometime, when finances allows I would like to purchase some of the books, with the first being the Bhagavad Gita, with the english translation, so I can read them more throughly,even when I am away from the computer.I would like to be able to have scriptures to back me up, as some of you sometimes do.For now, I have to use my gut feeling, which most of the time works pretty well. I know sometimes I may seem a little on the crazy side/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif, but in reality, I am OK. Thanks again, Theist.

Debbie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[spiritualsri]

HI Shiva,

Forget everything. Now which philosophy do u follow?

Sorry if I made a remark on your statement. I actally did not follow what you were trying to say. Even now I am in the same condition.

 

Cheers

[Guest guest]

In response to:

 

> Interestingly the word "Christian" comes from Krishna.

> As a child is given the last name of the father, Jesus

> was given the last name Christ of which the original

> Greek/Aramaic pronunciation is "Khristos".

.

Christ - "anointed" the Greek translation of the Hebrew word rendered "Messiah"

.

Christian - the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were "brethren,the faithful,elect,saints,believers."

.

The disciples, we are told, (Acts 11:26) were first called Christians at Antioch on the Orontes, somewhere about A.D. 43. The name "Christian," which, in the only other cases where it appears in the New Testament, is used contemptuously, could not have been applied by the early disciples to themselves, but was imposed upon them by the Gentile world. There is no reason to suppose that the name "Christian" of itself was intended as a term of scurrility or abuse, though it would naturally be used with contempt.

 

[RIFamily]

I tend to agree.

 

If I remember correctly, the word "Christ" is not a sir-name, but more of a title. One would never introduce Jesus as "Mr. Christ", anymore than one would introduce Krsna as "Mr. Supreme Personality of Godhead."

 

The term Christ is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Messiah". So, if a Hebrew text were translated into Greek, each instance of the word messiah would be rendered "christ." It might be more accurate to translate "Jesus Christ" as "Jesus the Christ".

 

Interestingly, the word "Jesus" is actually the Greek translation of the Hebrew name "Joshua". Jesus was really a common name in Hebrew society at the time. Those in the west have kept the Greek translation (Jesus) out of deference to the person, rather than use the more common (but more accurate) translation Joshua.

 

The word Christian does not come from Krsna, but is a label that the Romans placed on those people who followed the self-proclaimed Jewish messiah: Joshua that Messiah -- Jesus the Christ... Jesus Christ.

 

Note that the term Israelies come from those who are descended from Israel(also called Jacob), son of Isaac, Son of Abraham.

 

An older term for those who follow the tenants of Islam is "Mohammedans", which refers to those who follow the teachings of Muhammad.

 

Viasnavans are those who understand that Krsna (Visnu) is the Supreme Person of the Godhead.

 

Christians are those who follow the Jewish Messiah -- The Jewish Christ.

 

Groups of people are often named after who they follow or what they do. Of course the "Hare Krishnas" are so named because of what they "do", but I believe that the more correct term would be Gaudiya Vaisnavas.

[Somesh Kumar]

This was a very good analysis of the religion and it's followers.

 

I think pure devotees see everything in respect to Krishna and hence the description of Christ as Krishna...

 

Though it does make sense. Is'nt it??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Dharma]

A lot has to do with intellect and perception. There is an underlying theme it appears in the Upanishads that those that worship the Absolute are the highetst in rank followed by the worshippers of the personal God. Then come the worshippers of incarnations such as Rama, Buddha, or Krishna, and at the basic level those who worship ancestors, deities, fire, gurus or spirits. Kind of a subcaste with a caste.

 

There are references to higher knowledge is that by which the Absolute is apprehended and lower knowledge is that given by certain Vedas.

 

It takes a very fine mind to be able to comprehend & relate to that which is formless-beyond time and space. I am not among such beings. I prefer to worship a form and can relate better on that level as can many people. Mukti is attainable for all and fortunately great intellect is not a requirement. It is wonderful that in Hinduism there is a path for everyone reguardless of intellectual abilty or type of perception.

 

I know many who have attained mukti, have realized the "Absolute" yet are still great bhakti of one deity or another or a personal God or incarnation.

 

Still all the various ways of relating add to alot of bickering and dispute.

 

The quote that you posted, looseley translated:

Cosmic Reality is One, the wise perceive it in many ways." addresses this and should indeed allow great compassion and understanding for the perceptions of others.

 

It's like when Ramakrishna fed food to a cat that was intended for Kali. Someone reported him. However Mathur Babu understood that he was perceiving an Absolute-the Divine Mother in everything-and said to let him go and not to say anything to him. To Ramakrishna the cat was the Divine Mother-she was everything. All was an absolute to him vibating with consciousness-even the pillars and window sills. However many onlookers saw only sacrilege and judged him harshly for it.

 

That saying is like a double edged sword. It can create great self righteousness in a being or it can create understanding and respect for the perceptions & insights of others such as in the case of Mathur Babu, Ramakrishna and the "Cat".

 

[paul108]

"Actually God has no name.By no name we mean he has many names.We give him names according to his qualities."

 

I have to object to this statement posted near the beginning of this thread. Krishna's name is identical with His form, qualities, pastimes, etc., and to say He has no name apart from what we have given Him is equivalent to saying that His entire personality is an anthropomorphization. Krishna's name is completely independent of our descriptions of Him. While His innumerable names describe His activities, that does not mean His names are less than completely real, which would be the case if they were merely names given to Him by us. A practical example is in the naming ceremony for Krishna, Garga Muni gave Him the name Krishna, but prior to this, Krishna was not lacking His name. He is "Krishna" eternally.

 

[Maverique]

Peace and Blessings of God be upon you all!

 

Brother has quoted from Rigved, Book. No. 1, Hymn No. 164, Verse No. 46 "...Sages call one God by many names"

 

And he says that the above quotation is suitable for advaita philosophy, I still dont understand why is that people are trying to belive in some philosophies, attitudes, viewpoints .. When the

scripture is clear and very very much apparent potraying the CONCEPT OF GOD,

"Ekam evadvitiyam"

"He is One only without a second." WITHOUT A SECOND !

[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]

 

"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."

"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord." WITHOUT A PARENT !

[svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]

 

"Na tasya pratima asti"

"There is no likeness of Him." NO IMAGE !

[svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]

 

The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:

 

"Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam."

"His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye."

PONDER ON THIS!!

[svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]

 

 

The scriptures are clear! No ifs and buts...

If you are a vedantist then..

The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:

 

"na tasya pratima asti

"There is NO IMAGE of Him."

[Yajurveda 32:3]

 

"shudhama poapvidham"

"He is BODYLESS and pure."

[Yajurveda 40:8]6

 

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"

"They enter DARKNESS, those who WORSHIP the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."[Yajurveda 40:9]

 

Sambhuti means created things, idols and other manifestations .

Further

The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:

"Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander." [Yajurveda 40:16]

 

Well if you are still looking for God's image, you better pray to God with the above verse from [Yajurveda 40:16] to lead you to GOOD path and remove sin that makes you stray and wander in search of TRUTH, when the TRUTH is all there in your own Hands, in your Homes .

 

I see that people are bound to give Image to God , But the Holy Scriptures has put a big FULL STOP to it! And it says that people who worship SAMBHUTI will be more in DARKNESS!!!!

 

May God Guide You all with Truth!

[Guest guest]

Paul108,

You are right.

I paraphrased Srila Prabhupada's statement which he gave in the book perfect question perfect answers that God has no name and we give him name according to his qualities.He probably gave this instruction to help new comers understand better?

 

Joy