Women according to scriptures

[Bhaktavasya]

What is this talk of brahmins and sudras? A brahmin can be corrupt and not a devotee of Krishna (witness the story of the brahmins who impecably worshipped Vishnu but refused to give food to Krishna and Balarama, and Srila Prabhupad's own telling of the parable of the prostitute and the brahmin, that the former was always engaged in thoughts of what was going on in the temple despite her external activities and the brahmin was always thinking of (imagining)the fallen activities of the prostitute. She went back to Godhead whereas the brahmin went to hell (according to Prabhupad)for his offensive mind.

 

"I am not a vaisya or a sudra, a grhasta or a vanaprasta or a sannyasi. I am the eternal servant of the servant of Krishna, the lover & master of the Gopis." Sri Caitanya

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

"Generally, a man is born as an ordinary being, and by the purifacatory processes he is born for the second time. When he sees a new light and seeks direction for spiritual progress, he approaches a spiritual master for instruction in the Vedas. The spiritual master accepts only the sincere inquirer as his disciple and gives him the sacred thread. In this way a man becomes twice-born, or a dvija. After qualifying as a dvija one may study the Vedas, and after becoming well versed in the Vedas one becomes a vipra, or a qualified brahmana, thus realizes the Absolute and makes further progress in spiritual life until he reaches the Vaisnava stage. The Vaisnava stage is the postgraduate status of a brahmana. A progressive brahmana must necessarily become a Vaisnava, for a Vaisnava is a self realized , learned brahmana."

 

 

It is good that you see the world the way you do because you are probably already a Vaisnava but most of the people born in the Kali-yuga are meat-eaters and engaged in other sinful activity and they are not classified as Brahmins or devotees. They are considered sudras. You being born on the spiritual platform are going to see yourself in your real position as an eternal servant of Krishna but most men are under the influence of illusion and are classified according to their behavior.

[theist]

So what should be the vision of those who know they are spirit? To know that they must also know that that applies equaly to all. But yet they are still in this world. Seems like those with spiritual vision must learn to operate on two tracks simultaneously.

 

I take it that someone who doesn't respect the soul within the woman form is someone I will make no effort to hear from.I would rather hear from a soul in a female form that has realized the self.

 

But even having said this I don't support women heading up religious institutions in general. There is a certain external order that is best to maintain. Actually I avoid hearing from anyone that has riseing up in the hierarchy as a goal.

 

I would prefer hearing from a self realized soul, man or woman, even under a tree or in the barn vs. an institutional position climber speaking in a palace of gold.

 

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Even Lord Krishna follows varnashrama duties to set the example for common men.

 

[Bhaktavasya]

 

Yes, it's very interesting that at one time only brahmins were allowed to study the Vedas, and of course they had to be in male bodies. Then along comes Lord Caitanya and his associates, who "broke open the storehouse of love of God" (which the Vedas all point to) "and distributed it's contents to everyone."

 

Srila Prabhupad certainly 'broke the mould' when he gave brahmin initiation not only to women but to people who were formerly considered in the Vedas to be untouchables and of inferior, more primitive races. (Hanuman ki jai!)

 

He fulfilled the desire of Srila Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati by arranging for the distribution of 'Everything you need to know about Krishna and the Vedas...and more!" to "whosoever shall take it". Some 'trickery' was involved in 'getting out the books' while Prabhupad was alive but the intent was 'getting the message out' that the caste system is history (so to speak)and that God has incarnated in His and Her holy names.

 

Devotees may not always be brahmins and brahmins may not always be devotees of Krishna. Becoming a devotee is more important than taking initiation as a brahmin.

 

[AncientMariner]

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 text 13

 

"O best among the twice-born, it is therefore concluded that the highest perfection one can achieve by discharging the duties prescribed for one's own occupation according to caste divisions and orders of life is to please the Personality of Godhead."

 

 

Purport

 

Human society all over the world is divided into four castes and four orders of life. The four castes are the intelligent caste, the martial caste, the productive caste and the laborer caste. These castes are classified in terms of one's work and qualification and not by birth. Then again there are four orders of life, namely the student life, the householder's life, the retired and the devotional life. In the best interest of human society there must be such divisions of life, otherwise no social institution can grow in a healthy state. And in each and every one of the above mentioned divisions of life, the aim must be to please the supreme authority of the Personality of Godhead. This institutional function of human society is known as the system of varnasrama-dharma, which is quite natural for the civilized life. The varnasrama institution is constructed to enable one to realize the Absolute Truth. It is not for artificial domination of one division over another. When the aim of life, i.e., realization of the Absolute Truth, is missed by too much attachment for indriya-priti, or sense gratification, as already discussed hereinbefore, the institution of the varnasrama is utilized by selfish men to pose an artificial predominance over the weaker section. In the Kali-yuga, or in the age of quarrel, this artificial predominance is already current, but the saner section of the people know it well that the divisions of castes and orders of life are meant for smooth intercourse and high-thinking self-realization and not for any other purpose."

[AncientMariner]

 

 

Srila Prabhupada was trying to create a Brahmin class (in the Kali-yuga there is virtually no Brahmin class. Nearly everyone is a sudra) so that there would be an intelligent class to society. He knew if he could do this that all the social orders and castes could progress together towards realization of the Absolute Truth.

[AncientMariner]

 

 

 

 

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 1 Chapter 2 Text 2

 

"Srila Suta Gosvami said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the great sage (Sukadeva Gosvami) who can enter the hearts of all. When he went away to take up the renounced order of life (sannyasa), leaving home without undergoing reformation by the sacred thread or the ceremonies observed by the higher castes, his father, Vyasadeva, fearing seperation from him, cried out, "O my son!" Indeed only the trees, which were absorbed in the same feelings of seperation, echoed in response to the begrieved father."

 

 

Excerpt from Purport

 

 

"Srila Sukadeva Gosvami was a Vaisnava from the beginning; therefore, there was no need for him to undergo all the processes of the varnasrama institution. Ultimately the aim of varnasrama-dharma is to turn a crude man into a pure devotee of the Lord, or a Vaisnava. Anyone, therefore who becomes a Vaisnava accepted by the first-class Vaisnava, or uttama-adhikari Vaisnava, is already considered a brahmana, regardless of his birth or past deeds. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu accepted this principle and recognized Srila Haridasa Thakura as the acarya of the holy name, although Thakura Haridasa appeared in a Mohammedan family. In conclusion, Srila Sukadeva Gosvami was born a Vaisnava, and, therefore, brahminism was included in him. He did not have to undergo any ceremonies. Any lowborn person - be he a Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, Khasa or even lower - can be delivered to the highest transcendental position by the mercy of Vaisnavas."

 

So if you are a devotee you are already considered a brahmana.