Prabhupada - a real sanyasi?

[Guest guest]

As per Indian system, A Sanyasi is not supposed to talk/interact with any women. Srila Prabhupada did interact with women. This is contradicting Lord Chaitanya.

 

[leyh]

In the military, there is a great deal of formal etiquitte and ceremonial rules and regulations, which is for peacetime. In times of war, some of these rules and regulations may have to be eschewed. Who cares about having shiny boots or a crisply ironed uniform when bullets are whizzing on the battlefield and shells are exploding everywhere?

 

Srila Prabhupada is a great general in Lord Caitanya's army and he was preaching under emergency conditions. He had to urgently transplant the Vaisnava culture and the philosophy of Krsna Consciousness in western countries like America which had very different social conditions from India. Although Srila Prabhupada did not compromise on the philosophy, he did have to make adjustments according to differences in time, place and circumstances.

 

However, I did remember reading in Srila Prabhupada Uvaca by Srutakirti dasa that Srila Prabhupada strictly followed the injunction that a sannyasi should never be alone with a woman. There was one time when his sister visited him and Srila Prabhupada instructed one of his disciples to accompany him while he conversed with his sister.

 

[Avinash]

Is interaction with women, in itself, bad for sanyasis or is it bad because it may lead to something else which is bad?

 

Suppose that in some house, there is no railing, because of which it is dangerous for children to go on the roof. Therefore, the elders in the house make a rule that no child will go on the roof.

 

But now suppose that, for some reason, some elder person wants to take some child on the roof. It is not that he wants to do it just in order to defy the rule. May be that there is really some proper reason. That elder thinks that when he is there, the child will not be harmed.

 

Suppose that the elder is right in thinking that he can make sure that the child will not be harmed. Can he take the child on the roof. The answer is 'yes'.

 

But what about the rule that no child will go on the roof? The answer is that going on the roof is not bad in itself. It is prevented because children may suffer accident. If it is possible that some child can go on the roof but still is not harmed, then there is nothing wrong in him going there.

 

Likewise, we have to see why a sanyasi should avoid interaction with women. Is the interaction bad in itself? If yes, then a sanyasi must avoid interaction with women, otherwise he can not be called a sanyasi. But suppose that interaction with women is not bad in itself, but it is prohibited because it may lead to something else which is bad. If a sanyasi can interact with women in such a way that the interaction does not lead to that "something else", then there is no harm in interaction.

[Guest guest]

There were two buddhist monks who were going to cross the river. At the shore they found an elderly woman who needed to cross but was afraid to because she might be swept away by the current. One of the monks allowed the woman to climb on top of his shoulder as he carried her across the river. On the other side he let her down. The two monks then continued their journey for several more miles. Finally, the one monk turned to the other and exclaimed "How could you carry a woman? You have broken your vows." The other monk said "Yes, I carried the woman for a few feet across the river, but you have been carrying her in your mind for all these miles."

[karthik_v]

I agree with Avinash. From the vedic times there has been record of gurus instructing with female disciples also. Yagnavalkya instructed Maitreyi, who was to be his wife also. Of course, one might argue that he was a rshi and not a sannyasi. I guess the essense is that a sannyasi doesn't involve in those acts that would entangle him materially. Obviously, Yagnavalkya had more than a material relationship with Maitreyi. I didn't understand the part of a sannyasi not meeting even his sister in privacy. Is it again a warning against associating with family relationships, as a sannyasi is required to have transcended them? If that be the case, then even meeting one's own brother father is precluded, in spirit, for a sannyasi.

[stonehearted]

By declining to mee provately with his sister, Srila Prabhupada was setting an example that a sannyasi should not be alone witth any woman. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati did likewise. Srila Prabhupada sometimes cited an instance he witnessed in which Dr. Kapoor's wife asked to speak with BSST privately, but he refused, saying that anything she had to say could be said in present company. "After all," he explained, "I'm a brahmachari."

 

A similar stricture for all is given in Srimad-Bhagavatam 9.9.17:

 

matra svasra duhitra va

naviviktasano bhavet

balavan indriya-gramo

vidvamsam api karsati

 

TRANSLATION

One should not allow oneself to sit on the same seat even with one's own mother, sister or daughter, for the senses are so strong that even though one is very advanced in knowledge, he may be attracted by sex.

PURPORT

Learning the etiquette of how to deal with women does not free one from sexual attraction. As specifically mentioned herewith, such attraction is possible even with one's mother, sister or daughter. Generally, of course, one is not sexually attracted to his mother, sister or daughter, but if one allows himself to sit very close to such a woman, one may be attracted. This is a psychological fact. It may be said that one is liable to be attracted if he is not very advanced in civilized life; however, as specifically mentioned here, vidvamsam api karsati: even if one is highly advanced, materially or spiritually, he may be attracted by lusty desires. The object of attraction may even be one's mother, sister or daughter. Therefore, one should be extremely careful in dealings with women. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was most strict in such dealings, especially after He accepted the sannyasa order. Indeed, no woman could come near Him to offer Him respect. Again, one is warned herewith that one should be extremely careful in dealings with women. A brahmacari is forbidden even to see the wife of his spiritual master if she happens to be young. The wife of the spiritual master may sometimes take some service from the disciple of her husband, as she would from a son, but if the wife of the spiritual master is young, a brahmacari is forbidden to render service to her.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sugriva's Friendship

Rama and Lakshmana performed the last rites of Jatayu who had just then breathed his last and proceeded southwards. On the way, they learned some facts about Ravana from Kadamba, a woodsman. "Monkey-king Vali's brother Sugriva is in exile in the forest. Make friends with him and he will help you," he advised them.

 

Further along, they met Shabari, a 'sannyasini' waiting to see Rama. They moved on. Sugriva spotted them and became frightened; he sent his minister Hanuman to know about them. Though the present version of Ramayana describes these beings as monkeys, we should consIder them to be human beings like Jatayu. After talking to Hanuman, Rama and Lakshmana went to meet Sugriva and established friendship with him. Vali had done Sugriva much injustice. His capital was Kishkindha and Vali had driven him out to exile and was keeping Sugriva's wives with him. Hearing Sugriva's story, Rama promised that he would kill Vali and restore Kishkindha to him. Sugriva in turn assured Rama that he would help them in finding out where Sita was and rescuing her.

 

When they made friends with Sugriva, Rama and Lakshmana got a clue as to Sita's situation. A short time ago, Sugriva and his ministers were sitting on the top of their hill. They sighted a charioteer proceeding with a lady sitting in it. She had tied her ornaments in a piece of cloth torn from her saree and had thrown the bundle down to fall at the spot where they were sifting. Could she be Sitadevi? Rama asked his friends to hurry and get the bundle.

'Yes, they were Sita's' Rama recognized them and asked Lakshmana whether he could also recognise them. To this, Lakshmana replied: I can't recognise the necklace or earrings but can recognise the pair of anklets she used to tie on her feet. I used to see them daily when I went to pay my obeisance to her."

 

This shows how pure-hearted Lakshmana was. it does not mean that he had not seen her face or did not remember it. He had no doubt seen her well. Once he had even told Rama that her face had paled due to the hot son. But his looking at her was not intended to notice the ornaments she wore.

 

Rama killed Vali and Sugriva was crowned. By then, the rains started and Sugriva suggested that they would begin the search after the rains stopped. While he stayed at Kishkindha, the brothers camped at a nearby Ashram of a sage.

 

A month passed and the rains stopped. But Sugriva did not come. Rama and Lakshmana were annoyed. Seeking Rama's permission, Lakshmana went to Kishkindha and chastised Sugriva. He warned him not to be ungrateful. Though Sugriva has stayed behind, he had not forgotten his task. Hanuman had reminded him of his task and Sugriva has sent for monkeyleaders from various places. When Lakshmana came, Sugriva said he would never be ungrateful and came with him to Rama and later made further preparations. Monkey leaders from all corners assembled. Sugriva chose some of the ablest among them and sent them to inspect various areas to find out where Sita was. Hanuman and some others returning from their search reported that Ravana in Lanka imprisoned Sita, Sugriva prepared to proceed to Lanka with Rama, Lakshmana and his army.

[ethos]

Stonehearted,

 

Your post reminded me that many of the fallen gurus and sankirtana bramacaris did indeed become implicated with women by marriage or illicit sex.

 

Prabhupada never succumed to this trap that caught so many other Indian gurus.

[Gauracandra]

I remember an interview with the Rev. Billy Graham in which he explained that he made a promise with a few of his fellow pastors that they would never allow themselves to be in a room alone with another woman (other than their wife). There would always be another person in attendance. He said this vow is what kept him out of trouble, while many of his evangelical peers fell down.

[Yashoda_dd]

One of the things that attracted me to Krishna consciousness was the purity of sannyasis. It is against all public modern moods: to dedicate emotions to only one person: God.

 

We have seen in past centuries that it is a very difficult task, even children know stories about priests who secretly lead double life.

 

Srila Prabhupada did not make any compromise: if you want to be sannyasi, say goodbye to women - no more, no less. Women are very envious by nature, and many made sannyasis fall down - that gave them some kind of power over men or something.

 

Srila Prabhupada is acarya: he showed us the way. He was very careful to follow rules even with his own sister, who was also a wonderful vaisnavi.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Women are very envious by nature?

[Yashoda_dd]

Srila Prabhupada, in purport to text 24 of Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.17:

 

By the influence of the age of Kali, even a pauper is proud of his penny, the women are always dressed in an overly attractive fashion to victimize the minds of men, and the man is addicted to drinking wine, smoking, drinking tea and chewing tobacco, etc. All these habits, or so-called advancement of civilization, are the root causes of all irreligiosities, and therefore it is not possible to check corruption, bribery and nepotism. Man cannot check all these evils simply by statutory acts and police vigilance, but he can cure the disease of the mind by the proper medicine, namely advocating the principles of brahminical culture or the principles of austerity, cleanliness, mercy and truthfulness.

 

Srila Prabhupada in the purport of Srimad Bhagavatam, 6.18.41:

 

To see a woman's face and appreciate its beauty or to hear a woman's voice and appreciate her singing as very nice is a subtle falldown for a brahmacari or sannyasi. Thus the description of a woman's features by Kasyapa Muni is very instructive.

When a woman's bodily features are attractive, when her face is beautiful and when her voice is sweet, she is naturally a trap for a man. The sastras advise that when such a woman comes to serve a man, she should be considered to be like a dark well covered by grass. In the fields there are many such wells, and a man who does not know about them drops through the grass and falls down. Thus there are many such instructions. Since the attraction of the material world is based on attraction for women, Kasyapa Muni thought, "Under the circumstances, who can understand the heart of a woman?" Canakya Pandita has also advised, visvao naiva kartavyah strisu raja-kulesu ca: "There are two persons one should not trust--a politician and a woman." These, of course, are authoritative sastric injunctions, and we should therefore be very careful in our dealings with women.

************

 

Kali woman is very envious. When a neophyte devotee lady comes in contact with pure devotee, naturally she is inclined to spiritual habits. Nevertheless, in spite of all auspicious blessings, she may have old habits of disturbing men.

 

In Iskcon, many women were using their "charm" in order to sell books. The result of sold books was nice, but their consciousness was contaminated.

 

Vedas say that real beauty of a lady is shyness. Once when this control valve is loosened, women can create havoc in society by adultary.

 

If woman are spiritualy advanced, she will always act in a proper vaisnavi way and then she is qualified to be called "mataji". She is to be a pillar of stability in familly, society or any organization. Then she can raise boys to grow up as responsible, brave, intelligent men, husbands and fathers of integrity. The circle is closed.

 

[ethos]

How refreshing to hear a woman speak with more intelligence than most men in the world––and perhaps this board.

 

We all have to play the cards we're dealt.

[Guest guest]

Women are very envious by nature?

Tell that to your mother.

 

[leyh]

Not just women, but virtually every living entity in this material world are, to a large extent, envious. Otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place.