Why Women can not perform Pooja?

[abhijit_salvi]

Hi All

 

Normaly when women are in there monthly cycle days they are not allowd to attend any Pooja, they can not allow to touch god. And many more ristrictions ....

If god made us this nature and us ...MC is natural so why its provibited?

Are there any proves for such ristrictions in our holy books.

 

Pls reply to me all your comments on this topic.

 

Thanks

Abhijit

Jai Shri Ram !

[Manni]

I know there are many such restrictions placed upon women on the basis of impurity - they're definately documented in scripture somewhere, but i can't tell you exactly where - can't remember! i'm sure one of the other members will point u in the right direction on that front...

 

But in my opinion the subject is contradictory and i share your doubt! If SO MUCH emphasis is placed on the transcience of the material world and the body and the eternity of jivatma then why put restrictions on bodily state? If the body "doesn't really matter" then why should one be (bodily) pure before certain rituals etc? Surely it's purity of heart and Love for Krsna that counts? Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that chanting the name of the Lord can be done in ANY physical state - why doesn't this apply to other situations?

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth. It's true, you are not your body. It is not you, the spirit-soul that is pure within, all are pure in our transcendental form in the vision of God.

But our habit and conditioning in this material world leave a lot to be desired. There are many impure restrictions on mens worship also, it is designed such as to cultivate an attitude of pure devotion. Otherwise there will be no guidelines in a lawless state of anything goes, and this merely leads to more confusion. The scriptures and restrictions have been given for reasons beyond our mental limitations based on many thousands of years understanding the nature of this world and the next. What you may do in the spiritual world is free of reaction, unlike this world of reaction where all our actions effect us and others.

But ultimately we are all transcendental to any material consideration. Krsna only sees our love and devotion to Him, not our external disqualification. But for the sake of coming to the stage of spontanaiety in everything, we must first follow a process of Vaidi Bhakti that will be the architype of our eventual higher service to the Lord. Our material condition can be seen as both a blessing to humble us, and a curse that sometimes restricts the free flow of loving devotion. But ultimately we should trust the saints conclusions in the scriptures as being for our own best welfare, even though we have limited perception of them.

Many males can't serve the deity in the temple, because they don't have Brahman initiation as much as they like to, but that does'nt prevent them from offering in their home or their hearts, ultimately our relationship with God is there, not just in the external environment.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

MC is natural so why its provibited?

 

 

There are many "natural" circumstances that make one unclean to perform Puja. For example, the scriptures tell us that when we pass stool we are unclean and unfit to perform worship until after bathing. It may be natural to eat, digest and pass, but this does not change the fact that we are externally impure. Puja is external worship, thus external circumstances such as purity matter. Internal worship of God is not affected by one's external circumstances; but for internal worship, there is no necessity of Puja or other external ritualistic forms of worship. Thus the argument that we are internally all pure spirit souls and therefore fit to worship the Lord becomes invalid. If that is the understanding, then worship the Lord internally - not with the external body.

 

To perform external worship requires purity of external circumstances, which include purity of body, purity of space, and purity of time.

[Guest guest]

It is sexism pure and simple.

These are rules imposed by men.

[Manni]

They might be imposed by men but I don't think they defile women in any way. As someone has pointed out, there are rules for men also.

 

Let's also remember that scattered throughout the Vedic literature, women have been extolled as the most virtous of the 2 sexes. In fact, we can only reach God via a female - Radharani! That is why we say 'Radha Krishna' or 'Sita Rama' - the female's name always comes first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

To say the literature is sexist is an extremely biased view, considering we are looking at a small section of it! Let's look at the whole picture, make it fair, and look at it from that perspective.

[Guest guest]

Definately-often it is for their own protection women are isolated or suppressed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

 

In addition, in many ancient traditions the women do rituals separately during their cycles because they are extremely powerful and have considerable psychic energy-thus draining the energy of men. The others do not have such good results in their prayers or vision quests as they are outshined by the woman during her cycle. Just like you rarely hear a whisper in a very loud room, or it's hard to notice a candle flame in bright sunlight.

 

Men from many traditions have dressed themselves as females (such as some modern priest garb still used) to fool the gods/god into thinking they were women.

 

Siddhi powers are much stronger during the menstral cycle and you do not need to worry so much about doing various sadhanas or pujas to maintain a good state or receive answer to prayers. It is a state of grace-there is a flow-no pun intended. It is a blessing rather than a curse.

 

Throughout history-until the last few milleniums in many cultures in the realm of the spititual the female was considered superior on all levels. She was not time bound in her prayers. The soul was often considered to be feminine as well. Women was not so enslaved by primal desires and since a state of grace comes easier for her, she takes over many mundane chores to create time and a haven for the man to work on his own spiritual development. Just like she takes care of some of the physical needs of the child so he or she can learn. Like a god or goddess she makes time for others.

 

 

When she is pregnant she becomes quite masterful, commanding and godlike-she is a cocreator with god on a powerful physical & spiritual level. During her cycle she is becoming an empty vessel. Purifying. Anything is possible.

 

It is not necessary for her to do sadhanas or puja during that time-just a thought and her will is enough. It can be thought of as a blood sacrifice-she is giving her blood often in great pain.

 

Another dynamic of the female body is that during intercourse she receives energy from the male-more so during her cycle (she can drain him during this time and perhaps it is this energy pull he feels and resents-thus the shunning of women during their cycles is a commomn practice in religions). On the other hand she cleanses the energy bodies of the male-she takes the bad with the good. She can make an old man feel young. If a man has alot of karma, poor health or energistic garbage she will help clean it just like his house, his dishes and his dirty socks. For that reason she should be very careful who she couples with.

 

Look at the gods and goddesses-when you must have immediate assistence it is generally a goddess who rushes forward. A god may let you suffer indefinately. Just like when the child cries the mother rushes to his side why the father will often say, "Let him cry" or he may wait until the football game is over to see why the child is crying.

Women are tremendously blessed both spiritually and physically. Kind of a shame they are so supressed or made to feel dirty or useless during that time. Keep in mind, ladies, women are not the ones who use the same orifice for reproduction and excretion. The male reproductive system is like a reptile's-so if we want to talk about unclean, fellows, how evolved is that?

 

Dharma

[abhijit_salvi]

Thanks for all you reply for my query. But still no one come up with written prove in our holy books.

[Guest guest]

for one who is established in the self the external conditions do not matter. but for others like us it does. so we follow rules and regulations like taking bath etc.

 

for these rules and regulations we will not find any note in the sruti itself but in the smrti - yes. the statements of acharyas and their lives is itself a valid smrti for the devotees. in the case of followers of srila prabhupada, srila prabhupada did prohibit indian women from going to the temples on those days. but for the western women, he gave a relaxation by allowing them to go to temples !! this is to show that these rules are external but should be relaxed only as acharyas direct not whimsically. there are some brahmanas in india who would not even see a woman in her menstrual days and who will take bath on returning home. obviously, it is difficult for most people follow like that. what is important is to follow the rules according to the guidance of the acharyas so that one develops love of godhead.

 

in this context i would like to recount the tale of piscima, who after cooking for the lord entered her menstrual cycle before offering it to Him. She was only 21 at that time and was overwhelmed by grief that for almost four years in her life (5 days * 12 months * 25 years) she would have to stay away her beloved Nitai Gaur because of this impure external condition of her body. Her suffering was so real and the feeling so sincere that the Lord arranged the menstrual cycle to stop thereafter!!! if our desire is sincere, the lord will respond. obviously only a rare soul can be such. the rest should use those 5 days to rejuvenate and return with enthusiasm to do pooja on other days.

 

on the practical side, it is a good way to make your husbands realize that your duty at home is arduous by taking rest - also it is good to take rest to keep the body healthy.

 

[Bhaktavasya]

Take for example a woman who is living alone or is the sole maintainer of her family and home. If she has Deities in her home, should she refrain from worshipping Them because she is on her menstrual cycle? I don't think so.

 

On the other hand the puja that has been established in Hindu-oriented temples and in ISKCON temples follow a traditon that has gone on for so long that it will probably never be changed in that environment. When we think of how not only western women but all non-Indians are still forbidden to worship at Lord Jagannatha's temple in Puri and of the orthodox sects who wouldn't allow a woman to perform the puja ceremony and chant the gayatri mantra unless they received it from their husbands, then we can appreciate that contribution Srila Prabhupad made to revolutionize Krishna consciousness and expand the mercy of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

[stonehearted]

Bhaktavasya wrote: Take for example a woman who is living alone or is the sole maintainer of her family and home. If she has Deities in her home, should she refrain from worshipping Them because she is on her menstrual cycle? I don't think so.

 

In fact, I've heard that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati told Srila Prabhupada's sister that she should worship her Deities at home regardless of ther cycle.

[Guest guest]

This Pisima Devi seems to have been an extraordinary soul, a truly wonderful example of a vaisnavi from what I have heard of her. I get the feeling she was a pure devotee. She is somewhat an unsung heroine in the background of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swamis life, whom I've heard had quite some influence over his decisions on various matters.

Thank you for posting this Ram, it is very encouraging to hear such stories.

regarding the exclusion from 'Jagganaths Fortress' considering the pillageing that has taken place over the history of India I think it is justified to keep the non Hindus at a distance generally they don't understand deity worship and if it were openedup to all it could be a circus with tourists and muslims that dispise idol worship in these times it could even be the target of terrorists like the recent attack on the Raghunath temple in Kashmir.

there are also deeper considerations of service in seperation which is actually higher, that come into play here. If the Lord wished it to be different it would. Still Mahaprabhu didn't move to change the system. Rather He personally established His Nam Acharya outside the temple and personally delivered his meals to him every day talk about the infinite being conquered by His own servant. Inconceivable!!! when we're stuggling just to get an offering to the Lords feet. love in separation is higher than love in Union we may not understand it but those great souls like Srila Rupa Sanatan and Hari das Thakur certainly do.

Ramanuja acharya wanted to change the system in Puri dham and he woke up to find himself removed hundreds of miles away, wondering what happened. It's all the Lords mystic arrangement to help our love grow stronger for Him.

[stonehearted]

Actually, her name was Bhavatarini-devi, and we affectionately called her "Pishima," auntie. And, yes, whe was an amazing personalilty. Many of my Godsisters have wonderful stories about their encounters with her, or perhaps more accurately, her encounters with us.

[Guest guest]

Hey Stonehearted,

I've been thinking about your signature there.

I thought some transcendental devotees are all in competition with each other.

Srimati Radharani and Srimati Candravali and their respective camps are always trying to out serve each other. A little friendly competition just increases the intensity of the service, I can understand how we don't wish to see dishonor and discord, rather we desire harmony, but can't that come about through competition, like when two really good teams in sport compete for the ultimate pleasure of all looking on. If they don't resort to dirty play then usually everyone is satisfied with the result.

[stonehearted]

This is a paraphrase of a quotation from Srila Prabhupada's purport to the second verse of Srimad-Bhagavatam (condensed because of the limits of the system at the time, and maybe I'll revise it some time soon). This verse opens the Bhagavatam by explaining from the get-go that it rejects out of hand any idea of "religion" that falls short of selfless love for Krishna. There's a clear distinction between the "competition" in Goloka and the competition for sense gratification (no matter what cultural coating you put on it) in this world. That applies as well to most of what we often call "transcendental competition," due to not fully understanding and not properly applying Srila Prabhupada's tactics for engaging us. If you read the purport, you'll find it doesn't preclude actually transcendental sporting. At the heart of all such competition is cooperation to satisfy Krishna's senses.

 

If anyone wants to discuss this further, I'd suggest a new thread. I'm not interested in arguing the point in the sense of anyone trying "defeat" anyone else.

 

And if you'd like to sign in some time, I won't object to your calling me Babhru.

[Guest guest]

Pisima devi,I heard about her.In the video final lesson there is a vaishnavi elderly woman in white sari offering obeisances to Srila Prabhupada's feet.Is she Pisima?

 

Joy

[Gauracandra]

I don’t know many stories, but I do recall a few from ITV’s “Memories” series. These are just paraphrased.

 

I recall one story told by Mother Yamuna or Mother Kaushalya (I think it was Kaushalya). When Srila Prabhupada and his sister were young they used to fly kites. But Pisima’s kite would always fly higher. So Srila Prabhupada got on top of the roof and then his kite was higher. Seeing this Pisima called out “Govinda, Govinda, help me.” And then her kite flew above Srila Prabhupada’s. I seem to recall that Srila Prabhupada was telling this story.

 

It was mentioned that she worshipped completely Srila Prabhupada. Another story Mother Yamuna told was she was serving Srila Prabhupada, and Pisima was cooking in the kitchen. Then Prabhupada took his arm and started moving the tricep area. Then motioning to his sister, he laughed and told Mother Yamuna “She says it is water, I say it is fat.” They had a wonderful brother-sister relationship.

 

The only other thing I recall was that she was in fact a very strong woman. Apparently she had a number of children, and her husband died fairly early. So she had to take care of the entire family. I think she took over the business immediately, and started raising capital, expanding etc…. I don’t recall where I heard this, but she turned out to be a very successful entrepreneur as I understand it, with several stores or such. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could fill in the details.

 

I also recall something (from the Memories series) about her using Peanut Oil to cook everything in. I don’t recall exactly but I seem to recall she cooked for his bramacharis one day, and it was so heavy that they all slept through Mangala-arati. Srila Prabhupada then exclaimed “She is going to ruin my movement with her cooking.” This story is just something I kind of recall, so the details might be wrong. But I think this is a real story (ie. Not something I’m imagining). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Any other stories out there? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[raga]

I believe we are speaking of two different Pisima devotees here. The story Ram related of Pisima Gosvamini and her service to Gaura Nitai is related in OBL Kapoor's Saints of Bengal and Haridas Dasji's Gaudiya Vaishnava Abhidhana. She is very different from Bhaktivedanta's sister. Pisima Gosvamini lived in the 1800's. There are many astonishing pastimes involving her Gaura-Nitai.

[Guest guest]

raga is right. i was referring to pisima sr. some one can post her different pastimes which will be inspiring to hear.

[Guest guest]

I heard once that she was very very ill and rather than take medicine she only took The Lords caritamrtam for her medicine. Her faith was such that she depended only on him for her cure. Which is what happened, better in no time.

Also I heard Srila Sridhara Maharaj once relate a story of her being asked how Srila Sridhara Maharajs Math was going by some big acharyas, to which she corrected them by stressing that Srila Sridhara Maharaj was only the servant of that holy place that belongs to Sri Sri Radha Govinda Sundara. Srila SM was very pleased to hear this proper understanding and that a lady could correct an acarya, she was very close to SSM as was her famous brother, and again I heard she contributed to early printing of SSM's books. Many nice tales there are as they were all like family in the early days, Srila Govinda Maharaj has many extraordinary memories he relates from time to time.