Oh my God 2

[theist]

The woman's page at chakra is really a trip. A bummer that is. Go there and check it out. http://www.chakra.org/discussions/women.html The enemy is within. Read the letter by Ananda das. According to him half the GBC should be women. Then he goes into disabled people should have reserved seats as well as two homosexuals to be chosen by gay devotees. He also wants Prabhupada's books changed to be more 'sensitive'.

 

My response to this misguided soul is to write your own damn books and put your name on the cover and see who buys them. (that's the censored version of what i really want to say).

[stonehearted]

I've know Ananda since 1969 or '70. He's a bright guy who grew up in a very liberal, atheist, vegetarian family. His adult life over the last 35 years has taken interesting turns. CHAKRA now seems to provide him a forum, and those who don't like it are free to go elsewhere. You'll note the site also posts Amara's essays. You may find Umapati Maharaja's dipika.org more comfortable.

[Guest guest]

Obviously, the Chakra site is a great disturbance to you and distracting you from the truly important things that you should be doing and thinking about. Perhaps, you should just not waste your precious time left in this body on this planet with such things as this.

 

You would be better off reading, chanting, and listening.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

What is disturbing about chakra is how it was built up as an ISKCON propaganda site, but the administrators were secretly utilizing it to present anti-prabhupada teachings and to minimize prabhupada. The GALVA - Vipramukhya connection is all too obvious now. He was the only ISKCON sannyasi who wrote a favourable letter about GALVA's teachings, and shortly after he left ISKCON because he wasn't able to follow the regulative principles taught by Prabhupada. There was an unmentioned reason why he was favourable to GALVA.

 

The agenda of Chakra was to minimize Prabhupada and his teachings by establishing parts of his writings as worldly and mundane, not spiritual. Therefore the conclusion they presented was that we could reject those portions of his teachings we did not like, and still be a true follower of Prabhupada. They also presented the view that Prabhupada was confused and illusioned about certain topics, though the scriptures state the Acharya to be beyond the mundane defects of a conditioned soul.

 

There would be nothing wrong with them having their own site (something like the GALVA site), but the chakra site was advertised throughout ISKCON as an ISKCON site. Thus many innocent devotees go to this site thinking it is authorized by ISKCON and in line with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.

 

Even with the switch over, how many of the readers really know it has changed hands, and that Umapati Swami was basically thrown out? Only those who visit daily and saw the notice would be aware of this. Even then, it claims Umapati Maharaj and Madhusudani Radha came to an "agreement". That was a lie. She changed the domain server over night without informing Umapati Maharaja, and then proudly wrote that she "wished she could see the look on his face" in the morning when he found out the site was taken over. By saying they came to an agreement, innocent devotees will think it is the same Chakra website as before. They just had an agreement to change administrators.

 

Now the website is being ran and administered by a GALVA member along with Madhusudani Radha, and this has become obvious with the articles published on the site. The first day there was an article by Amara about the bogus "third sex", and a steady stream of GALVA articles have followed since, along with the usual anti-prabhupada posts that used to come. The request to change the mahamantra is just another in a long line of propaganda against ISKCON and Prabhupada. Next they will be asking for affirmative action gurus. There should be 5% homosexual gurus, 10% female gurus, 7% handicapped gurus, 12% Mexican gurus, and 3% Irish gurus. Of course the scriptures tell us that one who sees the guru in terms of his material body is destined to hell. Now they want to appoint gurus and spiritual authorities based on their material bodies.

 

All I can say is thumbs down to Chakra and to Vipramukhya, who planned this agenda long before.

 

[theist]

"Obviously, the Chakra site is a great disturbance to you and distracting you from the truly important things that you should be doing and thinking about. Perhaps, you should just not waste your precious time left in this body on this planet with such things as this.

 

You would be better off reading, chanting, and listening. "

 

Not everything on that site is disagreeable. I have a great debt to Srila Prabhupada, as does this entire planet. I won't just go quietly to the corner while people are stepping forward with vigorous design to alter his work.

 

You might do well to take your own advice and avoid my posts.

 

Hare Krsna

[theist]

Stone:"I've know Ananda since 1969 or '70. He's a bright guy who grew up in a very liberal, atheist, vegetarian family. His adult life over the last 35 years has taken interesting turns. CHAKRA now seems to provide him a forum, and those who don't like it are free to go elsewhere. You'll note the site also posts Amara's essays. You may find Umapati Maharaja's dipika.org more comfortable."

 

Yes I can go elsewhere as you suggest. I can also raise an opposing voice which is what I choose to do. I don't seek comfort. Thanks anyway.

 

Hare Krsna

 

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

hey guys c'mon lighten up.

 

Mahaprabhus mercy is for everyone,given first to

the most fallen, if we consider ourselves to be in that

category then we attract the munifecnce of Mahaprabhu

like a bee to honey.

 

when we put ourselves on a platform asserting our superiority to others then we push Mahahprabhu's mercy away.

 

So what if Chakra is doing what they are doing,

it's better then nothing, In fact I am sure

it is attracting people to Mahaprabhu who might feel

unwanted elsewhere.

 

The mercy of Mahahprabhu is flowing down in many rivulets

from the ocean of mercy, to demean their efforts

at encouraging others to participate in Mahaprabhus

lila is really not needed.

 

Mahahprabhus mercy is such that those who cannot

relate to the high standards and concepts of

the strictest order, can still be inundated

with divine nectar , in an way that may be more conducive

to their conditioned state.

 

In other words, the more the merrier, the love

you take is equal to the love you make.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

So what if Chakra is doing what they are doing, it's better then nothing.

 

 

Actually I think it is better to do nothing then to minimize the position and teachings of the Lord's intimate associate.

[stonehearted]

It would also be appropriate for you to express your displeasure on CHAKRA. I think that if you avoid name-calling, they'd probably post it. Madhusudani doesn't shy away from controversy (duh!), so I think your opposition to Mishra's and Ananda's suggestions would probably be published. Go for it!

[ethos]

JNdas, Ditto that.

 

Shiva, Prabhupada said our "disease" is that we always want to change things.

 

Obviously, this means we want to influence our environment to satisfy our false ego.

 

These principles are eternal and cannot be changed by people less than perfect.

 

Lord Caitanya's great benediction was giving the Holy Name and saving people in that way. He gave this opportunity to everyone regardless of qualifications, everyone has the opportunity. But that doesn't mean that He accepts anyone regardless of qualifications.

 

People have to chant, follow regulative principles, and rise to His standards. Adherents to the truth must compromise their false ego. Not that the truth is compromised by our silly standards.

 

We have to be suppliant in His hands, not the other way around.

 

You be lenient with thieves and cheaters and you have chaos. You interpret the scriptures and you have utter darkness.

[paul108]

I too was shocked when I saw the changes at Chakra, and have been offended by the posts there lately. I could hardly believe when I saw that they published an article of suggestions beginning with changing the scriptures and concluding with changing the maha-mantra! Next they'll try to elect a different person to be God!

 

I noticed that the split occurred right after Umapati Swami wrote an article on women's dharma in an apparent attempt to bring some spiritual wisdom to the fighting over the issue that had been going on on Chakra. I thought his article was very good, and I think my wife appreciated it as well. (She was just saying yesterday how people used to tell her in high school that she's so smart she'd do great in college, do something important, etc., but actually she was smart enough to realize that she'd find real hapiness raising our children at home!) I also appreciate hearing a little more from jndas about what happened; it confirmed my feelings about it.

 

I doubt most devotees have the luxury of checking up on online issues daily, and probably many missed what happened. I think Chakra ought to provide a link to www.dipika.org near the top of the page, so that those who missed the change would know where to go.

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

...try sometime ,you just might find,you get what you need.....

 

They are doing their part in distributing Krishna

bhakti , so are others, because you cannot relate to them, doesn't mean that others who cannot relate to

the traditional should be left out in the cold.

 

They are providing an inclusive message for those

who neeed it, the means may be different then what you think is appropriate, nevertheless the essence is what

is important, the transcendental association of the

vaisnava and the message of Sri Mahahaprabhu.

 

 

[theist]

You are missing the point entirely. It's not about inclusion in Mahaprabhu's sankirtana movement. It's about the changing of Prabhupada's books and the attempt to promote people to high influencial positions based on the body vs. actual spiritual realization.

 

At some point prior to being a leader in the KC movement one should have gone past considering themselves homosexual or heterosexual, handicapped or not, woman or man etc.

 

The idea that they want to go through and removed statements by Prabhupada in his own books because they consider those statements inappropiate is so offensive I can't think of a word to discribe that level of arrogance.

 

An author of mundane works should be given more respect even.

 

Everyone is free to write their books and sell them. Better they do that.

 

How would you feel about someone going through your posts and 'improving' them while you are sleeping one night? Deleting your words,adding their beliefs to yours, even though they may be totally different, but still leaving your name on them. And you having no way to edit them or respond yourself?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

nevertheless the essence is what is important, the transcendental association of the vaisnava and the message of Sri Mahahaprabhu.

 

 

The most essential aspect of bhakti is guru-padashraya, to take shelter of the lotus feet of the spiritual master. Srila Narottama Das Thakur has elaborated on what this entails, and what is the effect on the conditioned soul by this process of associating with a pure devotee.

 

Narottama Das Thakur advises us:

 

guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya,

ar na koriho mane asa

 

"The words emanating from the lotus mouth of the spiritual master should be held in the heart as one's only desire. One should hold no other desires in one's heart."

 

Calls to change the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, the mahamantra, etc., are not in line with Srila Narottama Das Thakur's instructions. We should purify our heart so that it becomes attached to the teachings of the guru. We should not change the teachings of the guru to be compatible with our dirty hearts.

 

The path of bhakti is unique in that it depends fully on the kripa of the spiritual master (sri-guru-carana-padma, kevala-bhakati-sadma). Any offence to the lotus feet of the guru destroys our chance at attaining Krishna bhakti. Thus minimizing the guru in favour of going after (or spreading knowledge of) Krishna leads one to destruction on the path of bhakti.

[Guest guest]

 

uh uh..you are...just kidding.

 

mahaprabhus message is not exclusively revealed

and distributed by Srila Prabhupada, there are many gurus giving their various realizations, according to what you guys are saying, if it isn't in Srila Prabhupadas books

then it isn't coming from Mahaprabhu.

 

the truth is not exclusive to anyone, some people

simply cannot relate to things they may find offensive in Srila Prabhupadas books, for them Mahaprabhu is giving other outlets of his divine nectar, there are no hard and fast rules, to each his own, the essence is connecting

with the transcendental activities of sravanam,kirtanam,

and the association of the sadhu, if some cannot

relate to one group or person, mahahprabhus mercy is

such that there are other avenues to go down.

[theist]

still not getting it. Oh well.

[Guest guest]

so what are you "getting" ?

 

should all those who have a problem with one conception be thrown away, discarded, disregarded as not qualified to recieve the mercy of Mahaprabhu ?

 

Should those who have a desire to be a part of Sri Caitanyas service be denied because you have a problem

with their ability to accept everything that you do ?

 

What is the nature of divine mercy, what is the meaning

of munifecence ?

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Next someone may suggest we remove Prabhupada's condemnation of cow slaughter from his books. This way "Mahaprabhu's mercy" can be spread to all those hundreds of millions of Americans who like to eat hamburgers.

 

[theist]

shiva, read my post above entitled shiva.

[Guest guest]

 

So what do you suggest ?

 

To not have that person engaged in sadhu sanga, sravana kirtanam, etc.

 

should they be excluded for their views ?

 

what is your point ?

 

so what if they have another opinion, does that change

anything ?

 

Don't you think that they have the right to express

their opinion, if they find some minor things(as opposed

to essential things) inhibiting them from

engaging in Krishna Bhakti is it better

to engage them somewhere where they can advance, or is it

better to condem them as heretics ?

[theist]

shiva, i think you are trying to not understand.

 

This has nothing to do with anyone being eligible to chant. If you exist you are eligible.

 

My complaint is directed at their wanting to change Prabhupada's work.

[Guest guest]

who is they ?, one person wrote a letter,are you

going to give every post here the same designation as being the philosophy of the owners of this site ?

 

Chakra is giving a forum for divergent viewpoints, the same here.

 

what is your point ?

 

Is the point of Srila Prabhupadas books to enforce

absolute belief in every word ?

Or is the purpose to give Krishna consciousness ?

[theist]

actually it is more than one persons view. More than one letter to that effect even just on that one page at chakra.

 

Hare Krsna

[paul108]

Maybe someone could form a Vaishnava Association club for Drug Addicts, Meat Eaters, Gamblers, and Illicit Sex Mongers (VADAMEGISM). What fun that would be! And spiritual advancement too! We might have to edit out some of the offenses against the Holy Name, but that should be easy once the scriptures and Mahamantra have been rendered transcendental by a few changes. Actually, Srila Prabhupada already conceived of this club; he called it "The Society of the Cheaters and the Cheated."

[Guest guest]

 

hey, here's a better idea.

 

why don't we call them idiots,morons,offenders,

and then destroy their faith in vaisnava sanga.