Oh my God 2

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

Madhusudani Radha, the administrator of Chakra, is one of the main voices demanding Prabhupada's books be changed to remove "sexist, racist, and homophobic" statements.

 

This supposed open forum also refused to publish this article refuting GALVA's nonsensical claims. At first Madhusudhani Radha claimed to have never received this submission, but when it was shown that she had, she said the GALVA discussion was over and they weren't interested in publishing anything on this topic.

 

It is obvious that Chakra has been manipulated from the very beginning to propagate the GALVA and left wing agenda.

 

[theist]

It's a fact i consider changing the maha-mantra, editing out the parts of Prabhupada's books i may disagree with, affirmative action for the GBC etc. to be foolish and moronic.

 

making such changes to the vaisnava's life works in the name of 'opening the door for more sadhu-sanga' is indeed offensive.

 

The door is wide open As It Is.

[Guest guest]

 

 

so what.

 

So do most of the vaisnava web sites, they have an agenda,

either for a particular guru, or ideology.

 

the more the better, mahaprabhus mercy is what is important, widespread dissemination of Krishna bhakti.

 

the details of one persons complaint ,versus another persons complaint, and on and on, in the end,

doesn't really matter.

 

what is important is that people are engaged in sadhu

sanga, sravanam kirtanam, the power of association

and bhaktivedanta will destroy the anarthas in the hearts and souls of the participants.

 

It's not like they are demanding that people exclusively

devote their time and energy to supporting their lifestyles.

like some do.

 

 

[theist]

Shiva

 

So the point is changing Prabhupada's books and structure for HIS organization. I notice you have yet to share your opinion on the real issue here.

[Guest guest]

the only issue i see

 

is whether or not you want to give people the benefit

of the doubt, or just squash their enthusiasm for

Krishna consciousness.

[theist]

if that's all you are willing to see then the 'discussion' has concluded.

 

Hare Krsna

[ethos]

Paul 108, "A new low" is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (funny)

 

Theist, "The door is wide open As It Is" - beautifully said. Applause!!!

[theist]

ethos, certainly its not to much too ask to just leave Prabhupada's work alone is it? We can take it or leave it but why change it?

 

I don't get the pyschology behind that unless it is to make us feel better about our FALSE selves in some way.

[ethos]

Yeah, these arguments you might expect from some newcomer with very mundane vision.

 

I would never have expected this from Shiva or devotees at Chakra. I'm flabbergasted.

 

It's sad to know what some people think, especially when you feel betrayed… They act as if you never knew them at all.

[Guest guest]

It's our duty to preserve Srila Prabhupada's work not change it.All our false knowledge will not save us at the time of death.How can they claim to be devotees of Sri Krsna if they doubt teachings of his pure devotee?

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

Everyone in their diseased condition has to adjust around the centre that Guru has given, not that they, the centre have to adjust to our design and life habits.

Prabhupad came and adjusted or modified some small areas for time and circumstance, and granted the times have changed dramaticly since his departure. But the fundamentals remain the same forever.

The main problem that I can see is that there is no living vaphu to call the shots in Iskcons parampara. On the one hand you have a few stalwarts trying to preserve the traditions on the other you have these splinter interests trying to introduce change for these crazy times, and the result is everyone ends up disturbed.

This society has to continually ask itself, what does Prabhupad want? Like he is living right here, right now. Not what each individual wants, or it will completely self destruct. Purity is the force. And although that purity was written in gold thirty years back, it will always have the power to change every heart that aspires to it, eternally.

[Guest guest]

That's Az Iz!

If they wish to introduce change, then it should be quite clear it is on their own head, but they shouldn't come in the name of Srila Prabhupad, who gave Mahaprabhu and the Goswamis teachings quite clearly.

 

But if they wish to give another agender then see how it stands on it's own merit, not on the back of Prabhupad. We've seen how many have already tried and sadly faded into oblivion.

[theist]

another agender - lol

[Guest guest]

 

 

If they make these changes and call it ISKCON and associate it in any way with Srila Prabhupada I would feel it is my duty as a student of Srila Prabhupada to refute their claims. They are free to make up a new religion (which we all know is another form of cheating) and call it whatever they want but editing Srila Prabhupada's work will not be Krishna Consciousness.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

I was under the impression that this transcendental knowledge has been handed down unchanged and very carefully from spiritual master to spiritual master since the beginning of time. Now all of a sudden it is fine to start editing it at a moments notice?

[leyh]

If enthusiasm for Krsna Consciousness means whimsically changing an acarya's books to conform with social norms or changing the maha-mantra because it is sexist, then I think that it is better that one remains an atheist.

 

 

[ethos]

Guest, You and Theist obviously agree as you so succinctly reiterated. I understood your point and title (with some effort). I understand how Theist could misconstrue. We are representing the same family.

 

Theist, I posted a quip to you in response to your "not too much" post misunderstanding you to be challenging me… but then immediately erased it. Such are the imperfect senses.

[ethos]

And "overintelligence" comes to mind.

 

Hardcore sentiments Leyh. You "ooze" with that righteous feeling. My obeisances. Ki jai!

[leyh]

Dear Ethos Prabhu:

 

My obeisances unto you too. I am hardly one to be righteous, but when I first read about the proposed changes to Prabhupada's books and the Maha-Mantra, I was simply flabbergasted. I don't wish to sound like a fundamentalist. I do believe in the necessity of making adjustments based on time, place and circumstances. But editing whole portions of Prabhupada's books? Changing the Maha-Mantra? sounds like a bad idea to me. Furthermore, changes can be made only by authorized personalities, namely acaryas. It's just like an army. Changes made by the higher authorities are done so with a perspective of the big picture. If the men at the bottom of the military hierachy start making changes based on their whim and fancy, the army would simply collapse. Similarly, if any man/woman on the street were to start making changes based on their opinion, the intergrity of the disciplic succession would simply fall apart.

 

 

 

[debbie]

Theist,

I agree with you.I do not feel anyone should change Prabhupada's works anymore than anyone would change the Holy Bible. If you don't agree, just leave it, not change it. We can not take someone else's work change it, and mold it to make it fit how we think it should be. If you do not agree with something, perhaps it might be a good idea to pray for guidance, so that one may have a better understanding. But in any case, I do not feel anyone has the right to change anyone's works. Debbie

[Mxyzptlk]

Shiva wrote: " what is important is that people are engaged in sadhu sanga, sravanam kirtanam, the power of association and bhaktivedanta will destroy the anarthas in the hearts and souls of the participants."

 

Maybe you've gotten the gist of Thiest's message by now, but if not, allow me to make an attempt to clarify things. If the books are re-written, the maha-mantra changed, the Founder-Acarya minimized and vilified, "gurus" and GBC reps voted in on basis of bodily conception, and people thinking ill of Lord Rama (due to a mundane ultra-feminist/bodily conception agenda), then what are you left with?

 

Sadhu sanga? No.

 

Sravanam Kirtanam? No.

 

Anarthas being destroyed due to the power of Bhaktivedanta and association (your words)? No.

 

Why? Because when the mantra is changed and the books are revised and the Acarya is minimized and criticized, ALL POTENCY IS LOST. Srila Sridhara Maharaja used to say that unless one receives the holy name from a pure devotee, he is "firing blanks." One may be reciting syllables, but that is all. The maha-mantra must be received from a pure devotee, unchanged, in its full potency. Otherwise, one's chanting will not be potent, and cannot be considered sravanam/kirtanam. Anarthas will not go away. Others who are on the same "path" cannot be considered "sadhus." Hence, there is no question of sadhu-sanga in such a radical scenario.

 

I think that was Theist's point, and I do share this opinion.

 

mxy

[stonehearted]

I understand why so many find Mishra's and Ananda's CHAKRA posts offensive, and I understand why you're upset that CHAKRA has opened itself to view you consider heretical. So don't jump down my throat on that count. But why not voice your objections to CHAKRA directly? Others have, and their letters were published there. I'd guess more people log on there than here, which is one reason I think your'e so angry.

 

And I wouldn't worry about the changes advocated there being effected. Ananda has been out on the fringe of the movement since before many of our members were born, and Mira Mishra is so obviously a whacko that no one with any real power in the institution will take her seriously.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

When Krishna comes to this world it is because he feels like doing battle and isn't his main adversary always one of his devotees? Maybe this is just Krishna playing around setting up a battle.

[Guest guest]

 

 

Didn't Arjuna have a big battle with his own family?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Leyh said,

 

"Furthermore, changes can be made only by authorized personalities, namely acaryas. It's just like an army. Changes made by the higher authorities are done so with a perspective of the big picture. If the men at the bottom of the military hierachy start making changes based on their whim and fancy, the army would simply collapse. Similarly, if any man/woman on the street were to start making changes based on their opinion, the intergrity of the disciplic succession would simply fall apart."

 

Precisely, perfect analogy, not to flatter you, but it's very encouraging to see someone like yourself with such a well adjusted and articulate view and understanding of Krsna consciousness as given by Srila Prabhupad.

It's to your sincere credit that you have imbibed the instructions Srila Prabhupad came to establish.

Prabhupad was like Krsna saktavesh himself, Achayam mam vijaniyam coming to re-establish principles for the whole world that has sadly decayed.

And within 20 to 30 years they want to make a new book, Prabhupad has done that, where every word will always breathe life.

That doesn't mean there is no room for other empowered acharyas now and in the future, Prabhupad wanted every disciple to be empowered by following the divine vani given by our many beloved guardians and gurus, through all adjusting to their illuminations it will make all of our Guru varga a reality in each and every heart.

The words of the Acharya are ever new, ever fresh, and ever enlivening.