special thanks and goodbye.....

[Guest guest]

i would like to thank everyone here who was kind to me in my brief visit. it is clear to me that this enterprise is not productive. i don't want to be the source of conflict. may all be well with you and if anyone wishes to email me i am open to it. all i wanted to do was learn about two things, Visnu and Vaisnavism. I can't find anyone online who likes these topics who can discuss it outside their own groups. i have been a member of two or three groups and was ignored on all of them. This is the only group where I got responses. And thankfully many of those repsonses were kind and helpful. Still, it is clear to me that I am not welcome here. I won't bother you all anymore. Good wishes. Bill

[leyh]

Dear Bill:

 

If you are still reading this: I don't think there is a need for you to stop participating in this Forum. I'm sure none of the members here have a problem with you posting here. There was some kind of misunderstanding, but that's the way of the material world. Nothing's perfect here. Let's make the best bargain we can out of a bad deal.

[theist]

Bill you were not the source of any conflict. I was hoping we could have many exchanges here. About the group. Very few people know each other outside this forum and met here. So please do not think we speak with one voice.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill,

I hope you are reading this.In the vedas there is something for everyone so having philosophical difference dosen't mean one should go away and stop posting.I hope I didn't offend you in any way while you were here.Our minds are so powerful the spirit soul is getting carried away.We are all children of the same God so is knowledge more important than love?You are loved.Please don't doubt this.

 

Come back anytime.We are waiting for your love.

take care /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Joy

[Guest guest]

wondermagazine@aol.com

 

if any one cares to send an e-mail.

[Guest guest]

Bill said:

And thankfully many of those repsonses were kind and helpful. Still, it is clear to me that I am not welcome here. I won't bother you all anymore. Good wishes. Bill

 

 

I don't see why you feel you are not wanted here. I think every one was glad to have you here. Only one person was troublesome. And he is like that with most everyone. I'm sure everyone hopes you stay.

 

 

 

 

[ethos]

We all want you to stay Bill. No one "ever" wanted you to leave.

 

You wrote "Still, it is clear to me that I am not welcome here."

 

Well, none of us can figure out how you arrived at that conclusion–especially me.

 

As for the rest of you, you first demonstrated apathy and disregard to Bill's original inquiries and my solicitations for help with the exceptions of Gaurachandra and Leyh, then began to feed on a fight with me that did alot to scare him off, and then call, "Please return Bill. We are here to help you" when he runs.

 

What a bunch of clowns.

[ethos]

Above is my final statement to all you in the peanut gallery. It pretty much sums up what I think of you people.

 

Now will I be attacked for expressing another opinion?

[leyh]

Dear Ethos:

 

This is my final statement to you on this matter. It is final because I believe that further dialogue with you will not be constructive, but I'm still willing to give it one last shot. Please think it over. Don't consider it an attack. I harbour no ill feelings towards you. Maybe some exasperation, but definitely no anger or hostility. I am speaking to you as a friend, as a fellow aspiring devotee of Srila Prabhupada and Krsna.

 

Prabhu, I'm sure that in your study of Krsna Consciousness, you must have came across this concept of Vaisnava aparadaha? It is simply defined as the blasphemy of devotees and it is considered to be very serious as it can completely uproot our devotional creeper. Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself humbly requested His devotees:"My Dear Devotees,I humbly Beg all of You,Please!Do Not Commit Vaishnava Aparadha."

 

I am not a Vaisnava. I am standing outside the camp of the Vaisnavas waiting for their remenants. So I do not maintain that you have committed any offence to myself. But what about the Vaisnavas in this Forum? You have made sweeping personal attacks on "you people" or the 'clowns" in "the peanut gallery", calling everyone all kinds of names in the name of truth and being philosophical. I beg to submit that some of your words have been so recklessly acidic towards the Forum Members that Vaisnava aparadha has clearly been committed.

 

As far as my own self is concerened, I started out by trying to point out that your approach towards Bill was unnecessarily heavy. And as our exchange developed, I thought I detected an arrogance in your posts where you presumed to judge Bill's sincerity (without the perfect knowledge of the Supersoul) and I thought you were trying to imitate Prabhupada's heavy preaching. I am sorry if I have offended you by doing so, but I have to speak the truth as I see it. Please try to understand. I carry no Ethos bashing agenda. However, I am mortified to see that many of your recent posts can only be described as venomous. I know I am unqualified to preach nor should I engage in fault finding, but I cannot sit back in silence to watch you unleash your hurtful words on others.Your words are hurtful. Can you not see that? Does that not concern you? When you type words like "clowns", "opportunists" etc. They are not just directed into an abstract cyber world. These words are read by people, many of whom are sincerely trying to know God, and some of them are even trying to love and serve God. Don't you think that it is possible that your reckless words might disturb these people? Is that your intention?

 

I am not sure how you will respond to this post. A cynical part of me thinks that you are just going to "retaliate" (how can one retaliate against a non-existent attack?) with another acidic post about how "you people" just don't get it, that we're apathethic and we are clowns, etc. But another part of me --- the part that still believes that anyone who is interested in Krsna Consciousness (which you obviously are) will somehow listen to reason and is open to respectful dialogue, hopes that it will not be as my cynical part predicts.

 

I humbly apologize if I have committed any offences against you. In the expression of truth, we have to take some risks and sometimes in dealings with devotees, Vaisnava aparadha may be committed especially by foolish persons like myself. But we should always be careful not to commit offences against those who are servants or trying to be servants of the Lord. The Lord is never tolerant of those who commit offences against His devotees.Hare Krsna.

 

 

 

[ethos]

Leyh, you keep hammering on this offense trip. I guess I'm not counted as one of those offended.

 

What happened is this: You tried to reprimand me in the middle of my conversation with Giveawayboy. When I didn't swallow your pill, you became more forceful. So did I in response. You brought some comments out in me that would not have offered otherwise. We all have opinions and feelings we don't advertise. Yet, saying those to you in my frank way, Bill was shocked. And so were you.

 

Then suddenly I'm the bad guy for scaring Bill when I wasn't even talking to him. You think I should have been more sensitive? Well where was you descretion? Why did you indulge in spatting with me and not direct your positive energy toward Bill as I had called for?

 

Actually I appeared to be doing fine till you and Theist and others took it on yourself to correct me untimely. Battles are distasteful. Yet, I have a part of me that thrives on them. You should have known that by now. You must have wanted a fight.

 

I certainly won't be coddled by a bunch of charlatans.

 

You wrote…

"You have made sweeping personal attacks on "you people" or the 'clowns" in "the peanut gallery", calling everyone all kinds of names in the name of truth and being philosophical. I beg to submit that some of your words have been so recklessly acidic towards the Forum Members that Vaisnava aparadha has clearly been committed."

 

Yeah, that means alot coming from a hypocrite. Your favorite pastime with me is putting words in my mouth and claiming I advertise myself as the next Prabhupada. I have been honest and call it like I see it–as I always do. If you are offended, then maybe it's really you and not me.

 

You wrote:

"However, I am mortified to see that many of your recent posts can only be described as venomous. I know I am unqualified to preach nor should I engage in fault finding, but I cannot sit back in silence to watch you unleash your hurtful words on others.Your words are hurtful. Can you not see that?"

 

Again, I don't count here because nothing I say matters and you have determined everything I say is wrong. You continue to bash and criticize me all in the name of righteousness while my activities in defense are simply sin. It is all my fault for not being a good patriot and Democrat. What mundane ideas. You just can't take what you give out and you are a hypocrite for pursuing this.

 

You wrote:

"In the expression of truth, we have to take some risks and sometimes in dealings with devotees, Vaisnava aparadha may be committed especially by foolish persons like myself."

 

Again, appropriate for you and not for me.

 

I call you all the peanut gallery because in my estimation you have lost all descrimination. Just words... no reflection. Not even the recent memory of what happened; who began it and why it developed.

 

I stand by my words. They are true.

[Guest guest]

i just want to be present to you all briefly. i have decided not to leave. i will most likely not post for awhile. i need to read through some posts here and take a learning posture. my intention is simply that, to learn. i may try to dwell here quietly for a bit. to those of you who called me back -- you know who you are-- thanks, this includes Ethos.

 

humbly yours, Bill

[theist]

Nice to hear that Bill.

 

At your own pace,here you'll find a place.

 

Hare Krsna

[ethos]

I'm glad you decided to stay. You will find answers to questions here that can allieviate the stress and doubt that come from spiritual ignorance. Such confidential knowledge can save you from the greatest danger that even the most impenetrable armour cannot do.

 

I have noticed alot more confidence in newcomer Debbie in just a short while.

 

You will actually get the most satisfaction here from board participation. You have only to ask and comment at your descretion.

 

As you can see, I'm gruff with everyone. I will leave you alone——until you're settled in (lol).

 

Again, I'm glad you made it. It was meant to be. (I'll be watching you).

[Guest guest]

Haribol, and welcome back. Thanks for giving us another chance at following the preaching recommendations of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur, which requires "Humble persuasion".

 

Any person who visits these pages should be honored as one who enters a temple of Krsna. The devotee filled with the spirit of Siksastakam offers all respect to others without expecting respect in return. So, if anyone is not satisfied with any response they receive here, they are certainly welcome to ask the hard questions.

 

A devotee is taught to submit to the teachings, but also Srila Prabhupada has stated that "submissive inquiry" is what is expected from the inquisitive person wanting to find out more. Submissive means that the person is sincerely grasping for the absolute truth, but inquiry also means that doubts are allowed to exist and be expressed, thus the devotees get wonderful opportunity to clarify the points of discussion.

 

So, again I thank you, brother. Sincerely yours, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa