Q&A Christianity cont...

[Gauracandra]

This week’s Srila Siddhaswarupananda television program is a continuation of the Q&A on Christianity series.

 

Audience Member: I was discussing the Judgment Day in the Bible with someone…

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: [jokingly]…oh, you were just sitting around with some friends discussing the end of the world [laughter]

 

Audience Member: Yeah [chuckles]. Actually this person came to my door. Anyways, he said that when the Judgment Day comes I will rise up in my body.

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: In your body? They say this because they believe you are your body but Jesus has said that “Flesh and blood cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” There is actually one famous person on television, I won’t mention his name else he’ll want equal time [laughter], but he actually wrote a booklet called “You are your body.” This person cannot explain these verses:

 

2 Corinthians 5: 6-8

 

“Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

 

(For we walk by faith, not by sight)

 

We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”

 

You are talking with people who are saying that your dead, decomposed body will rise up. They want this. They want flesh and blood because they are materialists. These same type of people came to our place once and told us that God will allow us to eternally live in this world. We asked a simple question – where will God be during this? And they replied He will be in Heaven. They want God’s kingdom but they don’t want God. They are attracted to the descriptions of gold paved roads.

 

Audience Member: I asked when I rose up would my body be the old body, or me as a young little girl, and they got really upset with me.

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: There was a lady preacher who once met with a friend of mine named Jivananda. He was a really big Bible scholar from Texas. So he recited for her the following verse:

 

2 Corinthians 12: 2-3

 

“I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such a one caught up to the third heaven.

 

And I knew such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth)”

 

She turned to Jivananda and said she had been reading the Bible for 30 years and had never seen that verse before. The fact is a person is not their body. Whether this person was IN the body, or OUT of the body, they were taken to the third heaven. The body is distinct from the person. This is the basis of spiritual understanding.

 

Audience Member: Why do many teach salvation and not love for God?

 

Srila Siddhasvarupananda: Because they are Salvationists. They don’t know love for God. They know how to teach fear. If you teach love you might not attract as large an audience. Salvationism is a one time thing. Then all you have to do is constantly remind yourself that you are saved. You don’t cultivate salvation. With devotion you are cultivating your love, trying to ever perfect your love for God. It takes work. A Salvationist can remain self-centered rather than God-centered. A person who is a lover of God gives up their own will for the will of the Lord. Its not that easy. Right Hitomi? I was talking to Hitomi about this the other day. Its easier to be self-centered than it is to be God-centered.

 

Audience Member: Many of these Christians say that Christ is the only way to approach God and thus they reject the existence of gurus or spiritual teachers.

 

Srila Siddhaswarupananda: They say that Jesus is the only way to God but we don’t separate Jesus from his instructions. Jesus said that his first and foremost commandment is to love God. Bhakti – love for God – is the only way. With his words and actions he teaches to love God. Because we don’t separate Jesus from his instructions to love God we accept that this is the only way. Pure loving service is the only way.

 

A second point is that they say you don’t need a spiritual teacher – Jesus is the only teacher you need. And yet they go about teaching you. If they truly believed this, then stop your commentaries. If the Bible is all that is needed then remove all of your ministers, stop talking from the pulpit, close down your Bible schools. Will these people be consistent or will they be hypocrites? He doesn’t need a teacher, but you after all are a new Christian, so let him explain what Jesus really meant. “You don’t need a spiritual teacher, just come to my class.” This is nonsense. Just be honest. You are trying to be guru. You go door to door, you put ads in newspapers, you evangelize, and have Bible study groups. We say directly that you need a spiritual teacher. We don’t go for this hypocrisy that you don’t need a teacher, just follow me. That is nonsense.

[Bebot]

obsviously salvationism is better than atheism, but what Srila Siddha Swarupa is teaching or message is beyond salvationism. A very good lecture.

[Gauracandra]

Thats a good point Bebot. By the way, last week's episode was a repeat of a prior Q & A Christianity (one that got contentious in these forums). I figure if its a recent repeat, I wouldn't bring these back to the top of the list. If its been a few months or so I might bring them up. Or should I just put a little note at the bottom and say "This program was a repeat" and bring it to the top?

[Guest guest]

 

 

That was a very good lecture. Finally it is nice to hear someone speak straightforward about Christianity.

[paul108]

Something I noticed recently:

 

Christians often claim that Jesus is the only son of God, yet the prayer that Jesus taught begins, "Our Father..." Perhaps the rest of us are all daughters?

 

 

Hare Krishna

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

If Jesus is the only son of God then we obviously are excluded from that relationship so we must be Sons of the Devil.

[theist]

Nice observation Paul.

 

Here is something to consider.

 

 

John 1 ( New International Version )

 

 

The Word Became Flesh

 

1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (acintya bhedabheda)

2.He was with God in the beginning. 3.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (Brahma's position)

 

4.In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

5.The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

6.There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.

7.He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.

8.He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9.The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

 

10.He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, (another description of Brahmaji) the world did not recognize him.

11.He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

 

12.Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- (diksa)

13.children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

14.The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15.John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

16.From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.

17.For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

18.No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. ( again oneness and difference.)

 

So here it is describing Lord Jesus Christ as Brahmaji, the Only begotten of God, Vishnu. The SB describes his birth from the lotus.

 

Of course just in reference to universal creation is Brahma to be considered the only begotten.

 

Just some musings. Not original to me.

 

[madhav]

>>This week’s Srila Siddhaswarupananda television program is a continuation of the Q&A on Christianity series<<

 

who wanted this dialogue

and what is the purpose?

what the parties are trying to prove or get out of it?

 

jai sri krishna!

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Well I was trying to use sarcasm not to defame Jesus but to illustrate that anyone who is sincere can become a worthy son of God. This relationship is not exclusive to anyone and is open to all despite what they tell you.

[Gauracandra]

Basically for some time I've been transcribing these television programs of Srila Siddhaswarupananda. This one happens to be on Christianity, and he was just taking questions from the audience. The purpose is what is before you. Someone asks a question and he gives an answer. Since you are new to these forums, you might not have seen past program transcripts. They deal with many topics, from aging, to reincarnation, to yoga etc...

[transient]

Nice one their theist. Many people have erroneously think or blindly accept that Jesus is the only son of God. However there is nothing in the Bible that says that. It says (5 times in the New Testament) that Jesus is the only BEGOTTEN son of God. I've read from my old Glorier Dictionary the meaning of the word begotten as "an offspring coming from one's own body" which is of course exactly the position of Brahmaji coming out from the lotus the sprang from the navel of Lord Vishnu.

 

Here are a couple more verses that confirm that Lord Jesus is Lord Brahma:

 

Collosians 1:15-17

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

 

John 17:4-5

"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

 

Haribol.

 

[theist]

Thanks for the extra verses transient. I do tnd to think this way but don't really know for sure. Others semm more certain. But we can see that the writers of the Bible certainly thought that Jesus Christ was the secondary creator.

 

I remember a purport where Prabhupada stated that Messiahs descend from Satyaloka. Perhaps true Christians are taken to that level on the strength of the mercy of Christ and from there enter their respective positions in Vaikuntha/Goloka. Just speculating a bit.

[Guest guest]

Haribol, coupla points, first is that the gospel of thomas, q, and other extra-biblical scriptuires removed by constantine and the council of trent all state that Jesus wished that disciples would even become greater lovers of his father than himself, and even the canon has jesus instructing his disciples to pray by saying "our Father", not "Jesus Father" or "Your Father".

 

Also many christians may accept Jesus as Son, but they throw His mother in the dirt of being a common individual. However, the mother of the son is the wife of the father, and Mary is accepted as the wife of God by the scholars who have any intelligence. Srtila Prabhupada does not neglect the position of Mary, and acknowledges he position as a plenary portion of Laxmi, the wife of God. She is also called the Pearl, and she is also referred to as ISRAEL< which is translated as "the wife of God".

 

You cannot have relationship with son while spitting on his mother, they come as a package deal.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS to the one who cannot handle the discussion here, go away then, dont concern yourself.

[Bebot]

If you think that you are too advance for this disscussion, them please skip this discussion. I do admit that I am learning thru this process, specially from the lectures of Srila Siddha Swarup which I find so simple (that a lot thinks he is beyond) but at the same time heavy.

So for those who are not interested, please start your own topic. I am saying this not to insult you but to ask you that you respect this topic forum for the rest of us.

[theist]

Not meaning to misdirect the topic. Just thought I would mention I am presently reading a book by Siddhasvarupa called Who Are You.

 

I have had it on my self for more than a decade without reading it. I'm a few chapters into it and finding it wonderful. He is systematically dismantling the false premise that we are the body. He is using science in a way that is understandable to me to accomplish that. He has this incredible way of simply stating the most profound truths. Quite a gift I think.

[Bebot]

For an all important issue...either way would be fine.

I still consider myself a Catholic, but unfortunately or sad to say that Salvationism is the key point or object of lot in Christianity, specially in the catholic religion.

That's why I consider this lecture very important to the extend that I would like to endorse it but obviusly not for those who think they are beyond or for those too advance.

[Bebot]

thanks for reminding me, Theist

I been planning to get a copy of this wonderfull bood by Srila Siddha Swarupa since. I heard a lot about this book and you just reminded me or I just realize that its high time for me to get one. regards....