Oh my God 3

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Or right-wing agendas. Or Hindutva . . . or whatever.

 

 

Very true. But till now I haven't heard any such people lobby to change Srila Prabhupada's books.

[atma]

 

I think asking questions to the guru in the proper manner, time and circunstance is ok. But, the kind of questions that Maharaja wrote in the VP offering I don't get it. Those questions are for somebody that just starting to know the movement, process, etc. Not for someone who is been around for 30 years or so and had distributed books all over the world and himself is accepting disciples. How can he lead if he has those kind of doubts?

 

I'm not going to get entangled in arguing with Jagat, I can't even write English properly what to say discussing about spiritual topics. The only thing I can say if Bhakta Joe asked those questions I wouldn't mind at all but I'm not going to be quiet when Maharaja is asking these and I going to tell him so when I see him next.

 

Another thing is, they are criticizing Srila Prabhupada's books may set a wave of "brashness and insensitivity" but I still see lots of women, homosexuals,blacks, scientists, white men too, hmm this is not only for hindus, around the temples, ISKCON or not ISKCON. "Intelligent" people still reads the books. Or maybe I'm wrong, they are such fools trying to follow something that is telling them we're not this bodies.

 

And as Srila Sridhar Maharaja said so nicely:

 

Devotee: Does the disciple's advancement depend more on the guru or on his own efforts? How will the disciple make proper advancement in following the principles of his guru?

 

Srila Sridhara Maharaja: That depends on the stages of realization of the disciple. Exclusive devotion must come from the disciple towards the guru. It is said in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.23):

 

 

yasya deve para bhaktir

yatha deve tatha gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthah

prakasante mahatmanah

 

"The key to success in spiritual life is unflinching devotion to both the spiritual master and Krsna. To those great souls who have full faith in both Krsna and the spiritual master, the inner meaning of the scriptures is fully revealed." The guru is Krsna's representative. We are in search of divinity, and so, we must try to concentrate all our energy wherever we find a real connection with divinity. That is the key to success, because Krsna is all-conscious. So, the response to our devotional efforts will come from Krsna according to our attentiveness to Him. He is everywhere. In the conception of infinite, everywhere there is center, nowhere is there circumference. In every point there may be the center. Prahlada Maharaja saw the center present everywhere. Hiranyakasipu asked him, "Is your God in this pillar?" Prahlada replied, "Yes. He is there." And when Hiranyakasipu demolished the pillar, Lord Nrisirnhadeva came out.

 

 

 

 

 

[atma]

For a couple of years in the 80's I lived in a South America country where the 2 leaders wanted to make many devotees and thought the best way to do it was not to present the devotees as Hare Krishnas. They stop wearing devotional clothes, not necessarily the people have to take their shoes off when entering the temple, and they have nice parties for the newcomers. One Sunday in the middle of the lecture the TP got up and invited everybody to go with him to go and see Gandhi. The house was very nice and next to the brahmacarini ashrama was a really nice swimming pool, to our surprise after sankirtan we always found the devotees with the new bhaktins swimming together and having nice music blasting around, all devotional of course and in the spirit of making friends and we're all a big family. GEE....They made lots of bhaktas and when the local GBC showed up for his yearly visit he was very glad how many people was there for initiation. He wasn't that happy when for the moment of the yajna nobody was with devotional cloth to help him to do the initiation, I had to seat next to him to help him because I was one of the few with a sari. Everybody was wearing suits like mormons.

The atmosphere was very relaxed and they didn't mind anymore even if people came smoking, the mantra was "don't be a spoiler", let them know we're nice and accomodating. The first lady of the country even came for lunch one day.

It lasted just a few months, most of the people blooped and they had a few scandals that made them look like donkeys.

I left before everything blew on their faces, it was a farce to accomodate their materialistic desires. I won't even tell you where they are now, it's sad.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Not for someone who is been around for 30 years or so and had distributed books all over the world and himself is accepting disciples.

 

 

Krishna advises us to approach a tattva-vit, or one who know's the truth - not one who has doubts and confusion about spiritual reality. In fact, the tattva-vit is asamshaya - he is completely free from and beyond doubt.

[Jagat]

Even the gopis had doubts when Krishna left them. Doubts may be about method not substance.

 

 

[Jagat]

Atmaji, I would never argue with you. I hate it myself, but what can I do? You are a good person and I like you very much. Please forgive me my disputatiousness.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Even the gopis had doubts when Krishna left them. Doubts may be about method not substance.

 

 

Doubting the words of the spiritual master is due to mundane illusion. The liberated soul (tattva-vit) is free from material doubts effected by conditioned consciousness.

 

In contrast to the above Vyasa Puja offering, Srila Narottama Das Thakur instructs us:

 

guru-mukha-padma-vakya, cittete koriya aikya,

ar na koriho mane asha

 

"The words emanating from the lotus mouth of the spiritual master should be held in the heart as one's only desire. One should hold no other desires in one's heart."

[theist]

.. i tried to look up diputwhatever in the on line dictionary. came back "no such word".

 

What does it mean Jagat. showoff /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Guest guest]

Doubts, at least as they pertain to sadhana bhakti, are a symptom of shraddha which has not yet matured. Our Acaryas have stated that when shraddha is fully ripened and mature, it becomes prema, (after passing through various stages such as anartha-nivritti, ruci, asakti, and so on.) One cannot become a gopi unless one possesses this prema. The transcendental pastimes which occurred when Krsna left the gopis are very difficult to understand for conditioned/non-liberated souls who are still saturated with anarthas and yet struggling on the first rung of the ladder of spiritual progression: sraddha. One thing is for certain, the prema which the gopis possess for Krsna was never diminished or shaken while experiencing vipralambha-bhava. Quite the opposite---their prema increased dramatically, as did their ecstatic symptoms. And in the final analysis, Krsna never left them at all. He was always in their hearts. As Krsna states in the Srimad Bhagavatam, "The devotees are My heart, and I am the heart of My devotees."

[Guest guest]

 

It's very relavant what Atma devi has told of watering down the instructions of the pure devotee to suit the tastes of those without spiritual qualification. Ultimately it all degrades into Sahajyaism, the easy path of less and less sacrifice. We want out spiritual life without giving up our material conditioning, which ultimately translates as non devotional, or actually materialism in the guise of spiritualism.And is a deception to ourselves and to those aproaching to know the Truth. So many are already doing this, the difference with Prabhupads non compromising process of Bhakti and surrender is that it becomes sweeter as time goes by, whereas the easy path, at first sweet, becomes bitter down the track and then it turns around and blames Krsna Consciousness for it's shortfall.

Here are some words by Srila Sridhara Maharaj on the true understanding of Sraddha.

 

 

The definition of sraddha generally on the surface means:

yasmin vijnate sarvam evam vijnatam bhavati

yasmin prapte sarvam idam praptam bhavati

 

"By knowing Him everything becomes known and by getting Him one gets everything." If one can accept this, "Yes, it is possible," one will acquire a firm foundation. Some will say, "It is impossible, that by knowing Him you can know everything. This is madman’s talk." But those that say that have no faith and their attempt is sure to fail.. The minimum admission fee from us for our purification in this age of controversy is our faith. In the age of Kali-Yuga everything is colored by controversy, everything is covered by doubt, and suspicion. Suspicious minds don’t want to hear without proof. SUSPICION LEADS TO SUSPENTION. A very minimum admission is necessary for us and a very general thing for our transformation. If I take to this sankirttan (congregational chanting) movement then everything will be added unto me, but underground faith must be there. Hearty sincere co-operation with the agents of Mahaprabhu, and that can purify us very quickly.

With faith and a generous conviction in this movement of Mahaprabhu it is easily approached for all beginners. From that many other aspects of the infinite will manifest to our understanding. It will put an end to all the troubles I am experiencing now and may have to experience in the future.

Faith is the only instrument for the finite to measure the infinite. To survey the infinite, all other methods are futile. Faith is the most spacious substance within us. It can cover a long distance. In the infinite what faith can we have in faith? We fear blind faith, yet in the infinite, the impossible becomes possible. Everything is possible, but only faith has the possibility of connecting us with the infinite while all other methods are useless. Sraddha can go a long distance and we shall be able to feel and conceive that faith is not merely imaginary. It has its tangible position, a most efficient position within us. When we can disconnect from all phases of perceptual experience, we can live in faith alone. When all the wealth of our experience deceives us and makes treachery with us, our faith will save us.

The whole world of our experience will vanish one day with the final wholesale dissolution.

 

janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanudarsanam

Bg. 13.9.

But faith will remain, faithfully attending us, that is the innate thing with our soul. And with the wholesale dissolution of our body, mind and senses, the whole world of our experience will go where? No one knows. The sun, the moon, the ether, the air, everything will vanish in wholesale dissolution. Only faith will live, even at that stage. Faith is eternal substance within us and we are told that with the favorable circumstances of faith we can go back to God, back home. Back to home sweet home! Such highest prospect is given to us who are in this world of mortality, which is a burial and cremation ground. Here everything is bound to be buried.

[atma]

thank you for the "you are a good person..."

and I didn't take personal offense for your 'disputatiousness' that BTW, Theist, is the noun? for disputatious: tending to argue or disagree without adequate cause, (finally my Microsoft Encarta College Dictionary came in hand).

 

But I do take offence when relates to Srila Prabhupada because He is my main guru and I do a have a connection with Him and break my heart when His own disciples don't appreciate Him.

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada was the greatest. No disrespect to anyone else but if they change his books I will just continue to read the editions I have. I am not interested in getting into any battles over all of this. If they are going to change his books there is not much I can do about it although in my opinion it is moronic . I owe my peace of mind and happiness to Srila Prabhupada for the great work he did and noone can change that or make me forget.