Gauracandra Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Does this justify Robertson's actions. You seem to be justifying his actions. I'm not justifying anything, just trying to put things somewhat in context. Without a direct quote its difficult to directly respond to Pat Robertson. Thats why I warn that he likes to add his own spin. Still, we have seen violence against Christians in India. What was it, like a year ago, when some "Hindus" poured gasoline on the jeep of some sleeping Christian missionaries and then burned them alive? I have no interest in defending these "Hindus" just because I'm a Vaisnava. These people are evil, and they do not represent anything good, end of story. These tensions between Christians and Hindus do exist, but no good will come from violence against one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_ Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 >>If you ask jews if they occulied israle illegally, they would say no. the land was of jews' oroginally some 2000 years ago, and the jews were thrown out for that long.<< And before 2000 years it was someone elses land. Who knows how many different groups of people inhabited that particular tract of land? Maybe in a previous yuga it belonged to a Vedic civilization. Does that mean that Hindus today can claim it as their own? That's absurd. We have to realize that everything provided to us is by the grace of God and we should learn to peacefully coexist and serve Him. >>the issue is: manmade laws can contradict each other. e.g.: india is the land of the hindus. islam invade in there since 1000 years. now those who are born there in muslim families say it is their birth place, their land.<< Yes, Muslims born in India can claim it as their rightful birthplace and home. I don't see anything wrong with that. Just like I am an American born in America even though my ancestors were from Europe. >>what is the solution: A: aggresive perdatory religions should not be allowed on Hindu land (India).<< If according to Vedic injuctions Hindus could defend their homeland with violence, why did they allow themselves to be raped, pillaged, and plundered in the first place? It's unfortunate that we can't all just get along. Hare Krsna ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 the real solution is to spread knowledge and love of godhead all over the world. hari nama is the solution to the evils of kali yuga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 I'm not justifying anything, just trying to put things somewhat in context. Without a direct quote its difficult to directly respond to Pat Robertson. Thats why I warn that he likes to add his own spin. Still, we have seen violence against Christians in India. What was it, like a year ago, when some "Hindus" poured gasoline on the jeep of some sleeping Christian missionaries and then burned them alive? I have no interest in defending these "Hindus" just because I'm a Vaisnava. These people are evil, and they do not represent anything good, end of story. These tensions between Christians and Hindus do exist, but no good will come from violence against one another. The topic was Pat Robertson. Why are you going hyperbolic ? These missionaries come with one motive, ie to destroy anything non-Christian. They preach HATRED for HINDUS and Hinduism. May be some Hindus act viloently. That does not mean these missionaries are justified in what they are doing. Christians in India are also violent, eg. NLFT that converts Hindus at gun point . Christians are also evil. Tell me what HINDUS should do if Christian terrorists(NLFT) attack them. Sing bhajans and practise non-violence ? I wonder why you want to "put things on context " here when Pat Robertson is the topic. I have not found one sentence from you that condemns Roberson's act ? WHY ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Christians converting at gun point? I doubt it. How is such a thing even possible? Of course the Mulisms could do it because they would forcibly put meat in someone's mouth and the so-called Hindus would then consider that person just another untouchable and have nothing to do with them. Why is it anyone's business what another person chooses to practice anyway? I ignore these evangelical Christians because they don't teach deep enough. In fact i avoid all sectarianists as far as hearing from them goes. We have to grow beyond that childish level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 >>Why not let everyone go the the house of worship they choose. Churches Mosques ans Temples side by side? << Why Saudi Arabia allows no religion other than Islam? Why Islamists attacked Akshardham and Raghunath temples? Why the Hindus allowed invader Islam to stay in India? Why the Hindus divided the nation in 1947? Who are tolerant and intolernt? What does Koran say about how to treat Kafirs? What does Gita say about spreading dharma? Which of the two message shows tolerance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Madhav, I don't think you got the gist of what I was trying to say. It's apllicable to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shvu Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/03jose.htm An example to show that there are better ways of doing things. Raghuraman, Your sweeping accusations against christian missionaries are unjustified. They have only one intent and that is to spread the gospel. If some of them employ unethical means, it is not reason enough to blackball the entire group. Holding onto such negative views against christians and muslims in India will not improve the situation. I have many Hindu and muslim friends in India and they are fine people. I have seen no hatred in them for hindus, while on the other hand I have come across enough hindus who hate muslims and even christians. To an extent, every religious group can be accused of proselytism. If you will not condemn Ashoka's efforts to spread Buddhism or the Hare Krishna's efforts to spread Krishna consciousness, there is absolutely no reason to protest against christian missionaries. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 >>People can still have vigrous debates on philosophy, but maybe over bread and drink instead of fire bombs and stones. << yes, and the muslims have not shown such inclination in india. well, they will take over your land first brutally, and then will tell, "let us talk." mean while they will keep harming you even more. i am sure you know how Kargil war happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 what does that have to do with Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atma Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 "Of course the Mulisms could do it because they would forcibly put meat in someone's mouth and the so-called Hindus would then consider that person just another untouchable and have nothing to do with them." I saw Marwaris eating meat in Calcutta and everybody interact with them. Meat eating in India, even beef, is becoming very popular with all the classes. The Bengali ricksha-wallas in Vrindavan told me how they have their secret places in the Holy Dham to eat meat, and they were "hindus". My punjabi bosses here are also owners of Subways, beef all over the place, and they are womanizers, drinkers and very low class people but they are considered succesful because they made it in America.Everybody interact with them even the hindu vegetarians. I noticed in India that many of the pure vegetarian will interact with meat-eaters because of social or business reasons but they won't eat in the other person's house. When they go to parties though they'll eat the vegetarian food not actually thinking that meat is also been served in the same place. It's becoming more loose and relax and the new generation doesn't care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 much about it really atma. I read somewhere that that was one way the muslims in the past would forcibly convert people to Islam. It just seem so absurd that these victims would then be rejected by those in their own religion because of such a thing and then afterwards be considered Muslim. Of course I'm sure I got it right anyway. This whole religion hopping thing is so lame in the first place. If we could just grasp the concept of seeking higher and higher revelations from the Lord. Ah well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 theist prabhu, when i was living in the temple in the us years ago, one young mother came to the temple with her daughter. she was telling me that she used to be in the temple when 6 years old. but her christian mother and uncle would not want that. they took her away and fed her with meat. she said that she slowly went away from the path but when she had a baby of her own, she remembered her own childhood and brought her to give the gift of krishna consciousness. there are evil christians as much as there are evil muslims and evil hindus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 theist prabhu, i appreciate your sentiments for christianity. it is human to have attachments. there are many great christian but that is despite the influence of christianity. let us note that christian scriptures support slavery and it cannot be considered human, what to speak of being considered divine. before defending christian evengelism in india, may i ask you of your ground level understanding of christian evengelism in india ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Many of you are as accusatory as Robertson. First Pat Robertson made a statement that is ostensibly invalid in your perspective, and immediately you attack him for no reason. Why differentiate between religions? Hinduism, Christiniaty, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all entirely the same. Robertson said that Hinduism is violent, but then you responded by defending Hinduism and asserting that Christianity has a tendency to spread its influence (an extreme stereotype). Your reaction, whether it is characteristic of you or not, portrays a lack of mental comprehension of the Bhagavad-Gita; I believe that you should not have been so bitter in your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 ...that Christianity has a tendency to spread its influence (an extreme stereotype). This is a historical fact. Whole cultures have been destroyed due to the attempted spread of Christianity in the Americas, Africa, and elswhere. Islam has also resorted to violent methods of conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 hello respected one do you have personal complains you looking so angry namaste sardar jaimal singh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 I think that the main reason why, in the past and to a certain extent even now, certain Christians have resorted to violent methods to convert people is that Christianity has roots in tribalism. A cursory reading of the Old Testament will inform us that the Jews essentially had a tribal culture which pitted itself against other tribes. However, Judaism and Christianity has outgrew their tribal roots. Today, Judaism is one of the more tolerant faiths around and Christians would probably shrink in horror at the idea of Crusades or Inquisitions. Of course there are still fundamentalists who vehemently denounce other religions, but IMO so long as their attacks remain in the realm of words, they are essentially harmless and can either be ignored or rebutted with counter-arguments. Jesus Himself was free from the tribal mentality. He once remarked that a non-Jewish person (a Roman Centurion) had more faith then anyone in Israel, and he upheld a Samaritan as an example of the "Love Your Neighbour" philosophy. The Samaritans were considered as heretics by the Jews during the time of Jesus. They only accepted the first five books of the Old Testament, combined elements of Judaism with other religions and they believed that the Messiah would be a reincarnation of Moses. Yet, Jesus overlooked these doctrinal differences with his Jewish tradition and used a Samaritan as the hero in one of his parables. The pure devotees are never tinged with the party spirit of "My religion v.s. Your religion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Look at the cultural and physical genocide the Christians have carried out on this Earth. First it was the so called "PAGAN" religions and peoples of Europe, then onto North America, South America and Africa. Previous nature loving and tolerant cultures and traditions have been anihilated. The massacre of innocent women in in the 17th-18th centuries for being "Witches" or Devil Worshippers in Europe and the Americas. Christians have a record of violence as brutal as the Islamists. Also read about the Catholic Church's no objection during the Nazi genocide of Jews. No doubt were also Christians to some extent. READ Stephen Knapps book (Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existance) There are good sections on this aspect of Christianity and Islam on the extermination of cultures across the world. http://www.stephen-knapp.com/proof_of_vedic_culture's_global_existence.htm Hari Bol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leyh Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Dear Guest: Much evil, and also much good has been done in the name of Christ. I'd rather follow Srila Prabhupada's instruction to avoid going for the stool and take the nectar.Srila Prabhupada accepted Jesus as a pure devotee and the son of God and anyone who genuinely follows Jesus Christ, I consider to be worshippable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Srila Prabhupada accepted Jesus as a pure devotee and the son of God and anyone who genuinely follows Jesus Christ, I consider to be worshippable. Prabhupada was also very quick to ask the Christians why they were killing animals and disobeying the orders of Christ. To truly follow Christ includes developing mercy to all living entities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Many of you are as accusatory as Robertson. First Pat Robertson made a statement that is ostensibly invalid in your perspective, and immediately you attack him for no reason. Why differentiate between religions? Hinduism, Christiniaty, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all entirely the same. Robertson said that Hinduism is violent, but then you responded by defending Hinduism and asserting that Christianity has a tendency to spread its influence (an extreme stereotype). Your reaction, whether it is characteristic of you or not, portrays a lack of mental comprehension of the Bhagavad-Gita; I believe that you should not have been so bitter in your response. "Why differentiate between religions? Hinduism, Christiniaty, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all entirely the same." One should differentiate for many reasons because all religions are not the same. First of all they lead to different destinations. One is a more direct path and another a more indirect path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 >>Islam has also resorted to violent methods of conversion. << Islam always has been violent and brute. the so called prophet mohammed has his army to go out and spread islam by force. i pray that vaishanvas read Koran and Hadith and Islam history to know how barbaric and unspirtual it is. if suras do not know how asuras think and do, they cannot win over the asuras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 >>Why differentiate between religions? Hinduism, Christiniaty, Islam, Buddhism, etc. are all entirely the same.<< dear guest, pleae pick a username and respond. then we can discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 srila prabhupada did not recognize that there are any christians left in the world - the last christian died on the cross. his version of christianity was one with vegetarianism, reincarnation etc. this version of christianity has nothing to do with what the church believes. christianity gives a moral supremacy to meat eating. there is no more evil than that. would you call jesus a pure devotee if you were an animal slaughtered for food on his birth day ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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