Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 would you call jesus a pure devotee if you were an animal slaughtered for food on his birth day ? What his claimed followers do is irrelevant. He is still a pure devotee. Just see what some followers of Chaitanya (apasampradayas) do. That does not make Chaitanya Mahaprabhu any less of a divine personality. He remains Supreme regardless of actions by self-proclaimed followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 <quote>christianity gives a moral supremacy to meat eating. there is no more evil than that. would you call jesus a pure devotee if you were an animal slaughtered for food on his birth day ? </quote> Yes, but not the one doing the slaughtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguraman Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Dear Theist /Shvu, Which world you are from. Have you not heard of the Christian terrorist group called NLFT from Tripura. These people are and were funded by the Baptist church. One of the church member was caught by the police with explosives and when asked he had confessed that it was to be supplied to the NLFT terrorist group. NLFTs mission is to create a CHRIST's kingdom in TRIPURA through violence. They stop people from worshipping and celecrating Hindu festivals(if you disobey their fatwa you will be killed) and convert people at gunpoint. Go and search in the BBC website. You will fiind a lot about NLFT. http://www.hvk.org/articles/0900/98.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/south_asia/758342.stm " The NLFT is larger and better armed. It says it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian. The NLFT has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda." http://sarvadharma.org/Museum/murder/tripura.htm Have you people never heard of Goan inquisition ? Shvu and Theist seem to be surprised by my accusations. This is going on in modern days without any publicity. Why ? Because they are Christian terrorists. If it were muslims or Hindus it will appear in every newspaper all over the world. The reason Christianity is sane in west is because of the powerful government capable to control these groups with secular laws. The true face of Christianity comes out in the third world where government is corrupt. "ONLY way" religions have always been opressive and will be opressive given a chance. ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY fall under this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Please read artiles on: http://www.bharatvani.org/ page to know hinduism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Well if its any consolation the 2003 Scarey Bible Verse calendar is now available at www.landoverbaptist.org direct link to store is http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/prod.aspx?p=landoverbaptist.3955472. Dharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 it would be very helpful if you say in just a few lines what is there please. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Here is one biblical key to happiness: "Psalm 137.9 Happy shall he be that takest and dasheth his little ones against the stones." Malachi 2.3 "Behold I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces." Dharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Dharma bhai, what i do not understand is: why prarmahamsa yogananda did not comment on such verses when he translted gita? in his gita translation he has supported many bible quotes. he has not said a single word against bible. why? how do other hindu gurus view this, his view of bible and xianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Christians converting at gun point? I doubt it. How is such a thing even possible? Of course the Mulisms could do it because they would forcibly put meat in someone's mouth and the so-called Hindus would then consider that person just another untouchable and have nothing to do with them. Adi-17.128 purport To convert a Hindu into a Muslim was an easy affair in those days. If a Muslim simply sprinkled water on the body of a Hindu, it was supposed that the Hindu had already become a Muslim. During the transition of the British in Bangladesh during the last Hindu-Muslim riots, many Hindus were converted into Muslims by having cows’ flesh forcibly pushed into their mouths. Hindu society was so rigid at the time of Lord Caitanya that if a Hindu were converted into a Muslim, there was no chance of his being reformed. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. None of the Muslims came from outside; social customs somehow or other forced Hindus to become Muslims, with no chance of returning to Hindu society. ----- So if so-called Hindu society wasn't so covered by material vision the Muslims wouldn't have been successful with their conversion game. Why were these people kicked out of their religious society because someone assualted them with water or forced meat into their mouths? What foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Funny my reply to you just disappeared-will try again. My guess is alienating Christians would not benefit a mission in America-plus it does not make a guru seem particularly evolved to focus on such things. All religions have their skeletons. Here are some of the Bible verses you rarely see at church: selling your daughter into slavery Exodus 21:7 Leviticus 25.44 taking slaves from other countries Advise to kill your neighbor for working on the Sabbath Exodus 35.2 Not approaching an alter with bad vision Levitucus 21.20 Killing men who get their hair trimmed Leviticus 19.27 Dharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 A hunk of the money American Christians donate goes to the World Church Organization. Help to fund guerilla uprisings in South America and Africa. Just look at what the Lord Jesus Christ did for Africa, Hawaii aborininal peoples, South America and the American Indian nations. Might give you an idea of what's coming down the pike for India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 A hunk of the money American Christians donate goes to the World Church Organization. Help to fund guerilla uprisings in South America and Africa. Just look at what the Lord Jesus Christ did for Africa, Hawaii aborininal peoples, South America and the American Indian nations. Might give you an idea of what's coming down the pike for India. Dharma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Sorry for the duplicate-forgot my password and can't edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 >>Hindu society was so rigid at the time of Lord Caitanya that if a Hindu were converted into a Muslim, there was no chance of his being reformed. In this way the Muslim population in India increased. << yes, no chance. That was malpractice of dharma. it is not practiced any more. but that is not a cause for increaseu muslim polulationin india, or it is just a small erason. the major reason for muslim polulation increase is mass conversion of hindus by muslims by sword. until the muslim king rules, they had no chance to re-convert, and also, the hindu society would not accept them either (which was malpractice of dharma). then other reason is that muslims keep four wives and multiply like pigs, and keep killing hindus. any soceity has people who malpractice their own religion. hindus are not an exception. (vice and virtue has no boundaries.) no one should malpractice one's own religion. but some would. therefore, one should not judge a religion by the conduct of malpracticeners. however still the action of the invader muslims to force beef into hindus' mouths in their hindu land cannot be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Please do not say that Christianity spreads itself -- please say that its followers do that. Say the same for Islam. As for animals being slaughtered for Jesus, there were very different modes of thought back then. Even gurus and swamis and kings from the BC years ate animals. Their intent, however, was not to slaughter the animals to savagely appeal to taste. With whole hearts they made sacrifices to God in that way. And yes, all religions are the same. All the main ones at least (i.e. Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) praise some form of God and stress development of personal character to attain higher levels of existence. Whether or not the followers of those religions interpret these religions correctly is a different matter. That is why you have extremists and missionaries in ALL religions (including Hinduism). Hindus were just as crude to the Islamic during the years of the attainment of independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 How silly it is that you people differentiate between religions so greatly! In the same way that a crude hunter stabs his prey several times to ensure its death, all of you people attack "Islam" as though it were some vile religion. This completely ignores Krishna's words from the Bhagavad-Gita. Even this website has that picture, in which it says: "The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater." I am beginning to think that many of you do not truly understand what religion means and the words of God. You preach but then a crude, untamed nature comes out of you when you discuss Muslims and Christianity. Fundamentalism and rigidness towards other religions is anti-Bhagavad-Gita. Whether or not other people exhibit these traits (i.e. Islamic militants), you yourselves should not lower yourselves to the level of those people. Islam is very good, as good as Hinduism. Some people, however, are not. Do you not think that there is a similar discussion forum in which Muslims are bantering about how bad Hinduism is and pasting quotes about how they were unfairly attacked or how during years of religious turmoil Hindus were barbaric towards them? Colorblindness towards religion and indifference towards the viewpoints of others is the only true sign of religious comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 "The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater." Seeing with equal vision does not mean trying to stick a square block into a circular hole. Closing one's eyes to variety is blindness, not equal vision. True equal vision, as spoken of in the Gita is to see the paramatma in the hearts of all living entities (whether they be cows, dogs, brahmanas or dog eaters). This does not mean their external activities and karmas are all equal or pious. The dog eater is engaging in sinful activity by killing and harming other living entities. The brahmana is engaging in pious activity by preaching ahimsa and devotion to God. Despite their good and bad actions, the paramatma remains in the heart of all of them, trying to guide the forgetful soul back to righteousness (dharma). If you still think Krishna is speaking of external oneness, then try to milk the brahmana and receive spiritual advice from the cow. That is blindness, not equal vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 <<"The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater.">> You are correct - it does not mean trying to stick a square block into a circular hole. What I meant when I applied it is that one should not differentiate between members of different religions. Whether they do good or bad is not relevant to you, so why should people waste their time in discussing them? This forum should be limited to God, not about criticizing others and generalizing about other religions based on the isolated bad actions of a few of their followers. My intent was not for people to actually think they are the same, but even vision to all is the same. We should not time praising others and cursing others, only looking at ourselves and determining whether or not we obey the inner conscience/paramatra that is guiding us from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 By the way, how old is everyone here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Whether they do good or bad is not relevant to you, so why should people waste their time in discussing them? It is necessary to discriminate between good and bad people so that we can associate with the pious and Godly (sat-sanga) and avoid the association of materialists (jana-sanga). This is the instruction of Rupa Goswmai in his Upadeshamrita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 I think that this is good advice (I am not able to speak with you about different texts as I have not read them). But, somewhat impractical. In this whole world of six billion I don't think even five can be considered truly pious/Godly. Many, many, many people attempt to be, but always fall at some point from righteous paths, either by an internal degeneration of good thoughts or by an external trend towards unmeritable actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_ Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 >>By the way, how old is everyone here? << 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 If you still think Krishna is speaking of external oneness, then try to milk the brahmana and receive spiritual advice from the cow. That is blindness, not equal vision. good explanation of equal vision jndas prabhu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 if one believes that jesus is a pure devotee because srila prabhupada said then one is accepting the words of one's acharya. definitely by following the good principles from any source, one will progress on the path of dharma. but it is another thing to equate christianity with vedic thought. vedas still have scriptures that have not been interpoplated. on the other hand bible is highly interpolated and church is the most corrupt that we cannot even believe resurrection etc. if in today's world the vatican has the gumption to elevate teresa to sainthood claiming that she performed a miracle and cured ovarian cancer, then we can imagine the games the church would have played in the past. lower forms of religion are required for one who has not got the higher instruction. having been taught about krishna, there is no need to be attached to christianity. such a attachment is only a skin disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 >>And yes, all religions are the same. All the main ones at least (i.e. Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, etc.) praise some form of God << so their forms differ, their charcteristicns differ, their messge differ. >>and stress development of personal character to attain higher levels of existence. << these levels differ, concept of haven differ, how to got hven that differ, what one gets in hven differ, why one whousl got o hven that differ. consequently the character they develops differs. >>Whether or not the followers of those religions interpret these religions correctly is a different matter. << are you able tointerpert various religions' Books? then please go preach bin laden and party. the hindus (vaishnvas included) are the victims of these agressoris for 1000 years. >>That is why you have extremists and missionaries in ALL religions (including Hinduism). << Hindu missionaries who go door to door? Hindu missionaries converted people porcibly? Hindus invade other counries by sword? are you taking of Hindus or Muslims? >Hindus were just as crude to the Islamic during the years of the attainment of independence. << so, that is why they partitioned their home land? Would USA partition country if CA says they want independence becaue they are muslims? what you know of hindu cruelty please share it here. what is your source of such information please? would you like to know authorative sources for howning hindu muslim cruelty? who did attack akshardham and raghunath temple or WTC recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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