Gaudiya Vaisnava/Sri Vaisnava

[livingentity]

Can anyone explain the differences and the similarities of Gaudiya Vaisnava and Sri Vaisnava? Also can you explain the different Sri Vaisnava deities, saints, teachers etc? What influences did Lord Caitanya have on Sri Vaisnavism during the time He spent in Southern India?

 

Thanks in advance for any help with these inquiries.

[madhav]

Sri sampradaya started by sri ramanujacharya is pure dvaita vada. gaudiya madhva sampradaya is vishishhthadvaita vada.

 

these differences address what is the highest ulimate truth. so i say that who ever has not reached any closer to such high level in bhakti, need not worry about it.

pick one you like for bhakti and progress.

 

all the five vaishnav sampradays that came after shankaracharya's advita vada are dvaita with slight differences. there are web pages for each for detailed info.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

 

[livingentity]

I am not asking these questions so I can compare and pick a path to follow. That choice was made years ago. I ask because I want to understand the differences and similarities just as a christian might ask questions of a hindu or vice versa - not that they want to change faith or whatever but just to have more understanding and knowledge of the other. I have looked at the websites and the ones I have found are vague and obviously meant for someone who already understands. Perhaps you can suggest some sites that would be good to check out.

[madhav]

ok sister, now i understand.

here is one site that may help:

 

http://www.dvaita.org/overview.shtml

 

http://madhva.tripod.com/week.html

 

The following introduces all sampradayas, advaita and dwaitas.

 

http://www.hinduism.org.za/schools.htm#The%20Visishtadvaita%20Philosophy%20Of%20Sri%20Ramanuja

 

http://members.tripod.com/~sriramanujar/

 

http://www.ramanuja.org/intro.html

 

Following page narates aacharyas lives and their phylosophies briefly.

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/saints/saints.htm

 

http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/71.html

 

http://www.madhva.net/madhvacharya/

 

http://www.gosai.com/dvaita/madhvacarya/

 

 

 

let me know if these help.

there are more.

 

Jai Sri Krishna!

[livingentity]

Thank you for the website and any others that you find to look at. You are very kind.

[madhav]

see my previous post for more sites.

 

jai Sri Krishna!

 

[vsdprasad]

Sri Vaishnava philosophy is based on visistadvaita and Gaudiya vaisnava philosophy is based on Achintya Beda Abeda Tattva ("philosophy of simultaneous, inconceivable oneness and difference"), a system of Vedaanta revived by Shrii Chaitanya Mahaaprabhu.

 

Popular Srivaishnava Acaryas include chinna jeeyar swamiji ( www.chinnajeeyar.org ), etc.

 

Popular Gaudiya Vaishnava Acaryas include Srila Prabhupada from ISKCON, Acaryas from other schools like chaitanya saraswat math etc. In this page http://www.wva-vvrs.org/ (to the lower right end corner), you can learn about various Vaisnava Acaryas.

 

In addition to the above links, you can see this link for more info about Advaita, Visistadvaita and Dvaita - http://www.srivaishnavan.com/faq_advaita.html

 

 

-Prasad.

[shvu]

 

 

Can anyone explain the differences and the similarities of Gaudiya Vaisnava and Sri Vaisnava?

 

 

The similarity is both groups are Vaishnavas -- worshipping Naaraayana/Krishna. They however follow different philosophies with the Sri-Vaishnavas following Vishishtadvaita and the Gaudiyas following Achintya Bheda-abheda. The philosophies are quite different and it is of interest that Raamaanuja rejected the Bheda-abheda doctrine as even worse than the doctrine of Maayaa (Advaita). brahmajnaana pakshaadapi paapiiyaanayam bhedaabhedapakshah.

 

 

Also can you explain the different Sri Vaisnava deities, saints, teachers etc?

 

 

Check out Mani Varadharajan's www.ramanuja.org for details. They have a mailing list too, where one can pose questions about the doctrine.

 

 

What influences did Lord Caitanya have on Sri Vaisnavism during the time He spent in Southern India?

 

 

None.

 

Cheers

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

The philosophies are quite different and it is of interest that Raamaanuja rejected the Bheda-abheda doctrine as even worse than the doctrine of Maayaa (Advaita). brahmajnaana pakshaadapi paapiiyaanayam bhedaabhedapakshah.

 

 

The bheda-abheda and dvaitadvaita schools are different than Gaudiya's acintya-bheda-abheda doctrine. The similarities are just in the names.

 

Noted Sri Vaishnava scholars such as Lakshmitattacharya-ji of the Melkote Sanskrit Academy are of the opinion that the Gaudiya line is a branch of the Ramanuja sampradaya and not the Madhva line.

[theist]

<quote>The bheda-abheda and dvaitadvaita schools are different than Gaudiya's acintya-bheda-abheda doctrine. The similarities are just in the names.</quote>

 

Jndas, could you explain this more fully. That is the differences between bheda-abheda and acintya-bheda-abheda?

 

I have used them interchangably in the past and it now seems in error. A good reason for me to avoid sanskrit terminology when possible.

 

[vsdprasad]

jndas prabhuji, could you pls explain Sri Ramanuja 's visisthadvaita philosophy compared to Caitanya Mahaprabhu's acintyabheda-bheda-tattva philosophy.

I learnt that some people from Madhvacharya's line (dvaita philosophers) feel at odds with Caitanya's philosophy. They reject his lineage from Madhvacarya because of his difference with dvaita philosophy.

 

 

- Prasad.

[madhav]

>>Noted Sri Vaishnava scholars such as Lakshmitattacharya-ji of the Melkote Sanskrit Academy are of the opinion that the Gaudiya line is a branch of the Ramanuja sampradaya and not the Madhva line<<

 

If Gaudia Madhva Sampradya records and authorities say that the lineage is from Madhva, then there is no reason to believe otherwise.

[Guest guest]

"Can anyone explain the differences and the similarities of Gaudiya Vaisnava and Sri Vaisnava?"

 

********

 

As pointed out by Shvu the Sri Vaisnavas's Vishishtadvaita is different to Gaudiya's Achintya Bheda-abheda. And Ramanuja rejected the Bheda-abheda doctrine as to be even worse than advaita.

 

Chaitanya was initiated into the advaita school he took sanyasa from an advaita dasanami Kesava Bharati.

This explains his advaita inclination and his preference for Sridhara Swami's advaita commentary on the Bhagavatam to Madhvacarya's

 

Sri Vaisnavas (SV) like the 2 other schools of vedanta, accept the prasana trayam as their authority. Gaudiya Vaisnavas (GV) accept Srimad Bhagavatam as their sole authority.

 

SV's also accept the canon of the Pancaratra as authoritative along with the 4000 Divya prabandham (collection of hymns of the Tamil saints Alvars).

 

Based on veda pramanam, SV accept Narayana as the Supreme Godhead, and Krsna as a vibhava avatara. The GV's based on the Srimad Bhagavatam statement "Krsna tu bhagavan svayam" accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

There are many other philosophical differenecs between the 2 sampradayams.

 

Simialrity ??

 

SV's accept that Narayana expresses His will to redeem by having a dual Spiritual Form (Sri & Narayana). Sri or Laksmi through Her Grace transforms the Lord's desire to justice into redemptive Grace. This is quite similar to the GV's approach of Radha (although they claim their Sampradayam originates from Brahma but Brahma is never venerated as a mediatrix ??).

 

The are some similarilites between GV and SV like for instance

 

Chaitanya claims to have accepted the doctrines of SV which is quite dsiputable (i.e Bhakti minus jnana). However the GV concept of dasanudasan( servant of a servant) and Chaitanya's bhakti mood was closer to the SV and the Alvars .

 

*****

Also can you explain the different Sri Vaisnava deities, saints, teachers etc?

*****

 

SVs mainly worship Lord Laksmi Narayana. The most popular deities are Sri Ranganatha followed by Lord Venkateswara. And the deities of the divya desams on which the Alvars have sung their mangalsasanams are also popular.

 

The worship of Andal is also popular, especialy during the month of Margali whereby the SVs relish Andal's anubhava of divine love by reciting Her Tirupavai.

 

Prominent taechers in he SV linaege are :

 

Nathamuni

Yamunacarya

Ramanujacarya

 

Parasara Bhattar

Vedanta Desikan

Sudarsana Suri

Pillai lokacarya

Manavala Mamuni

Ramanada (founder of the Ramandi sect in northern India)

 

The above acaryas have written extensive commentaries on the Sanskrit and Tamil revelations.

 

It is common for many gaudiya acaryas to quoted the works of these acaryas and Alvars. E.g Yamunacarya's Ratna Sotra and Kulashekara Alvar's Mukunda Mala

 

******

What influences did Lord Caitanya have on Sri Vaisnavism during the time He spent in Southern India?"

 

******

 

LOL ....

 

Chaitanya stayed in Sri Rangam for 6 months and toured numerous divya desams in South India. Surely this would have greatly influenced Chaitanya and his Hari nama sankitana movement, as the Bhagavata cult was well established in the south before it making its way North or East.

 

We cannot dismiss the influence of Gopala Bhatta a Vadagalai SV on the GV, who later become one of the six goswamis.

 

 

[gHari]

Someone wrote:<blockquote>"As pointed out by Shvu the Sri Vaisnavas's Vishishtadvaita is different to Gaudiya's Achintya Bheda-abheda. And Ramanuja rejected the Bheda-abheda doctrine as to be even worse than advaita."</blockquote>Given the overall tone of that post, I am concerned that laughing boy may have purposely disregarded the observation that the two doctrines, Achintya Bheda-abheda and Bheda-abheda are entirely different. Really, of what significance is a statement here about Ramanujacarya's rejection of some meaningless doctrine 400 years before Sri Caitanya revealed acintya-bhedAbheda-tattva?

 

I would recommend that one should get past the words of the scriptures to the underlying truth, before they attempt to ridicule renowned personalities. Real jnana should produce such humility.

 

gHari

[Raguraman]

Hare Krishna,

 

 

Madhav

Sri sampradaya started by sri ramanujacharya is pure dvaita vada. gaudiya madhva sampradaya is vishishhthadvaita vada.

 

 

 

You got it mixed.

 

Sri Ramanuja sampradaya follows vishishhthadvaita

 

Sri Madvacharya sampradaya follows pure Dvaita.

[Guest guest]

"two doctrines, Achintya Bheda-abheda and Bheda-abheda are entirely different"

 

As I am ignorant of the above can some one please enlighten me on the difference. Thank you in advance.

 

Readers interested on Visistadvaita's criticism of Bhaskara's Bhedabheda Theory, please refer to

 

Fundamentals of Visistadvaita Vedanta - A Study Based on Vedanta Desika's Tattva mukta kalapa

by S. M Srinivasa Chari pages 36 - 38 (Motilal Banarsidass 1988)

 

 

 

[gHari]

The following is an excerpt from the SRI CAITANYA BHAGAVATA by Srila Vrndavana dasa, Madhya Lila Chapter 19 :<blockquote><font color="blue">Lord Gaurasundara has advented specifically to deliver all the fallen souls with the exception of those who find fault in the Vaisnava devotees of the Lord. Thus Lord Caitanya ate and rested in a drunkard's home, but avoided the company of the so-called learned Vedic sannyasis just to prove this point. One must be always careful to avoid the Lord's wrath, but those who flout the Lord will suffer eternal punishment in the hands of Yamaraja, the demigod of death.

 

Lord Brahma, Lord Siva, Ananta Sesa, Kamala the universal mother, are constantly engaged in glorifying the Supreme Lord Gaurasundara. Thus if anyone is so unfortunate as not to be attracted by the sweet nectarean pastimes and qualities of Lord Caitanya, then all his Vedic learning and austerities as a sannyasi are rendered useless.

 

Happily Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityananda proceeded towards Santipur along the bank of the Ganga. As They walked, Lord Caitanya loudly and repeatedly roared, "I am that. I am that person. Nada has awakened Me from sleep and brought Me here. He is, I believe, holding dissertations that camouflage the process of devotional service behind a facade of flowery words that present the speculative path of knowledge. Today I will punish him for this. Let the whole world see. I want everyone to see how he defends his bastion of speculative knowledge."

 

While the Lord thunderously rumbled on in this manner, Lord Nityananda kept His silence, smiling in His mind. As Lord Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhus swam in the waves of the Ganga, the author recalls to memory Lord Mukunda, Narayana, supine on Ananta Sesa lying on the ocean of milk.

 

Advaita Acarya, a stalwart amongst the followers of Lord Caitanya could understand from before, due to his high devotional merits, that the Lord would react angrily to his presenting the theory of speculative philosophy. So when he realized that Caitanya and Nityananda had come to Shantipur he began to speak more vociferously on impersonalistic knowledge. How can one really fathom the devotional mood and activities of the pure devotees of the Lord?

 

Lord Nityananda accompanied the irate Lord Caitanya into Advaita's house. Advaita swayed in divine pleasure playing out his part perfectly as an impersonalist. Haridas Thakura offered obeisances to the Lord, falling on the ground like a rod; Acyuta, Advaita's son, also offered his respectful obeisances. Advaita's wife, Sitadevi, offered obeisances to the Lord in her mind and felt very upset seeing the Lord's countenance. The Lord's face and expression aroused fear in everyone's heart.

 

Rumbling with anger, the Lord said, "Hey you, Nada! Tell Me. Which is superior - speculative knowledge or devotional service?"

Advaita replied, "Speculative knowledge is always superior, for what is the use of devotional service if a person is devoid of impersonal knowledge?"

 

As soon as these words entered His ears, Lord Caitanya became inflamed and forgot His surroundings. He pulled Advaita out of his seat and dragged him out to the patio. There he threw him on the ground and struck him again and again.

 

Advaita's wife, Sitadevi, is the universal mother who knows all these confidential topics, yet she could not restrain herself from trying to stop the Lord. "Stop! Stop!" she cried out. "He is just an old brahmana. For whose benefit do You chastise him so heavily? He is so old that he may not survive Your harsh behavior and You will find it difficult to avoid the consequences of Your actions." Lord Nityananda smiled at her words and Haridasa Thakura repeated Krsna's name in great fear.

 

Lord Caitanya was so angry that He did not even hear Sitadevi's words. Roaring like angry thunder He spoke to Advaita, "I was gently relaxing on the milk ocean and you interrupted My sleep, calling Me to attend to your work. You engineered the propagation of devotional service, yet now you audaciously obscure the devotional process with your circumvent explanation of impersonalism. If you had already made up your mind to surreptitiously(sp?) broadcast your speculative theories, then why did you take the trouble of revealing Me to the world? I did not disregard your desire and wishes, but you have deceived Me in all respects."

 

At long last, Caitanya stopped chastising Advaita and went to sit next to the doorway. He spoke loudly, revealing His real identity to all. He said, "O Nada, you know everything. Behold, I am the one who slew Kamsa. Siva, Brahma, Ananta Sesa, Laksmidevi are all constantly engaged in serving Me. That impostor Vasudeva met his end - vanquished by My disc weapon, Sudarsan. That same disc reduced the entire city of Varanasi to ashes. My arrow found its mark and killed the great demon king Ravana. My invincible Sudarsana severed the arms of Bana and destroyed the powerful demon Naraka. I had lifted the Govardhana mountain with My left hand, and it is I who brought the heavenly parijata flower to earth. I tricked King Bali out of all his possessions and then benedicted him for his mood of surrender. I also vanquished the terrible demon king Hiranyakasipu to favor My devotee Prabhlad." As the Lord revealed His various pastimes, Advaita felt gradually submerged in an ocean of ecstatic bliss.

 

Advaita was more than happy to receive his due punishment in this manner and he clapped his hands and pranced in joy feeling peace and humility within. He said, "My Lord, You have rightfully remonstrated me, and I am lucky to get away with so little. Now I am clear about Your divine authority and I am feeling the renewed strength in my relationship with You as Your servant."

 

Advaita danced around in ecstasy and then creasing his eyebrows together, he prayed to the Lord: "Now where are Your flattering words about me? What has happened to all that deceit? I am not Durvasa Muni that you can insult me, whose remnants of rice You had smeared on Your body. Nor am I Bhrigu Muni whose foot impression decorated Your breast and is known as the famous Srivatsa. My name is simply Advaita, Your eternal and humble servant purely. I am always hankering birth after birth to receive Your remnants. And by the effect of Your remnants or mercy I am unscathed by the ravages of Your illusory potency. The punishment is now over, so please give me the shelter of Your lotus feet." Saying this, Advaita, the master of Santipur, fell to the ground and placed his head on the Lord's lotus feet.

 

Hastily and with due respect, Lord Visvamvara picked up Advaita on His lap as tears flooded the Lord's eyes, cascading down unrestrained. Lord Nityananda, Haridasa Thakura were unable to contain their ecstatic emotions at the sight of such a display of divine devotional fervor. Tears flowed from their eyes in rivers. Sitadevi, Acyutananda and the servants of the house were crying in intense joy. Advaita's whole house became immersed in love of Godhead.

 

Lord Visvamvara now felt ashamed after having chastised Advaita so severely and wanted to compensate by offering him a boon. He said, "If anyone so much as takes a little shelter at your feet, be he an insect, worm, animal or bird, and even if he commits a million offenses against Me, I will still grant him My benediction."

 

When Advaita heard this boon he fell at the Lord's feet and, crying like a meek child he said, "Whatever You have said My Lord is certainly true. Now please hear and grant me one favor. If anyone tries to follow and worship me but does not serve Your lotus feet, then let that so-called devotion to me vanquish him. I cannot accept anyone who does not serve You. He may be my son or servant; yet I shall consider him a great offender, and shall never see his face again for I cannot bear to see anyone neglect Your lotus feet. Those who worship You automatically become my dearest friend.</font color></blockquote>

[Guest guest]

nilatungastana giritati suptam udbodhya krsnam

pararthyam svam sruti satasirar siddham adhyapayanti

svocchistayam sraji nigalitam ya balatkrtya bhunkte

goda tasyai nama idamidam bhuya evastu bhuyar

 

I offer my obeisance again and again to Goddess Andal(Goda), to Her alone who has awakened Lord Krsna sleeping on the mountain-like lofty breasts of Goddess Nila.

Andal has informed Him her total dependence on Him in accordnace with the hundreds of Vedantic text; Andal who robustly enjoys Him: after binding Him with garlands that She had first worn

 

[Guest guest]

 

 

Andal with Lord Ranganatha

[Guest guest]

Sri Rangam Temple Vimanas

 

 

After bathing in the river Käveri, Sri Chaitanya Mahäprabhu saw the temple of Ranganätha and offered His ardent prayers and obeisances. Thus He felt Himself successful.

 

Madhya 9.81

TEXT 81

 

In the temple of Ranganätha, Sri Chaitanya Mahäprabhu chanted and danced in ecstatic love of Godhead. Seeing His performance, everyone was struck with wonder.

[Guest guest]

Tirumazhisai Alvar

 

 

For life history of Tirumazhisai Alvar click below

 

http://www.indiadivine.com/alvars1.htm

[Guest guest]

Lord Yathoktakari (Kanchipuram)

 

 

Pastimes with Lord Thiru Vehkaa (Yathoktakari) in Kancipuram

 

At Tirumazhisai Alvar's instructions Lord of Thiru Vehkaa (in Kanchipuram) followed and came to be known as "sonna vaNNam seydha perumaaL'' (Tamil for - the Lord who obeyed).

 

Kanikannan, a disciple of the Tirumazhisai Alvar, provoked the wrath of the local king ; and got exiled when he refused to restore the king's youthfulness. Not wanting to be separated from his disciple, Tirumazhisai Alvar went to the temple and declared to the Lord, "I am leaving the town with Kanikannan, fold Your serpent bed and follow me."

 

Ever waiting to please His devotees, (true to Nammalvar's words in the 53rd paasuram of periya thiruvandhaathi ), the Lord got up immediately, folded his "painnaagap paay' (mat), and went behind the Alvar. Thus, He came to be known as ``sonna vaNNam seydha perumaaL''. Then, the king apologized to Kanikannan and brought all three back to Kanchipuram.

 

Encounter with Brahmins

 

A group of brahmins halted their veda mantra recitation upon noticing the Tirumazhisai Alvar approaching (who is of a low caste). Tirumazhisai Alvar moved away to make the brahmins comfortable. Then, the brahmins tried to resume, but couldn't.

They had forgotten where they had stopped the mantra. Noticing their predicament from a distance, the Alvar gave a sign to the brahmins and helped them resume at the correct place.

 

At this time the Alvar shined with such luminosity that the brahmins where put to shame. Swami Sri Vedanta Desikan has characterizes Tirumazhisai Alvar as ``mazhisai vandha jOthi'' (the shining light of Mazhisai).

 

Pastime with Lord Saranga pani in Kumbakonam

 

After a long and arduous journey, Tirumazhisai Alvar reached Kumbakonam Sri Sarangapani temple, tired and hungry. When he entered the temple the tirumanjanam (ritual bathing of the Lord) was underway. Intent on comforting the Alvar, the Lord interrupted His tirumanjanam and instructed the priests to take immediately His offering to Tirumazhisai Alvar. This practice is continued to this day with the food being offered first to the Alvar, and then to Lord Sarangapani.