Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Lord Swaminarayan says, "God is sakar - forever with a form. God is full of divinity, free from all evil and the reservoir of all bliss. He is extremely radiant, extremely pleasant, extremely glorious and divine. The Lord’s divine abode Akshardham is conscious and divine light. And the God residing at the center of the light is Me. I am Paramatman, the God Supreme." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Thus in this Vachanamrit Lord Shree Swaminarayan has Himself called Himself the cause and source of all Divine Incarnations. In Vachanamrit 7 of Ahmedabad Shreeji Maharaj in a reply to Pragji Dev's question says. "I went to the Dhaam of Lord Shree Purushottam which is above all. I myself am Purushottam there. I saw none greater than myself. I traveled to several places and then I came into human form. I looked within myself and realised that I am the cause of the creation, preservation and destruction of all the Universes. The Infinate Shivas, the Infinate Brahmas, the Infinite Kailashes, the Infinite Vaikunths and Gauloks. Brahmpurs and illuminated by my own Devine Light. I am such that if I shake the Earth with the toe of my foot, the Infinate Universes being to tremble. The sun, the moon the stars, etc. are all illuminated by my light." http://www.geocities.com/swaminarayan_shikshapatri/exposition.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 dear guest, i welcome you here (although i have no rights here. no regret about it.) please assume a username. it does not take away any of your privacy. it become easy to talk here. without it there can be a number of people posting at the same time, and each is "Guest". that does not help. i would be glad to talk about swaminarayan. jai sri sahajanand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 If there was ever a time you forgot you were God, then you can forget about being God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 >>If there was ever a time you forgot you were God, ..<< - theist. gyan yogis or advaitis think they are god and jagat is mithya. the vaishnavas think that there is bhagavan (god the person) and they are the bhaktas. their sadhana is bhakti which krishna has said is best in gita of all otehr sadhanas. bhakti is not opssible ulness bhagavan is separate from bhakta. vaishnvs say jagat is not mithya, but is temporary. i think you know this. any way we all are vedic people, santana dharmis, and the need is to watch and check the asuras in india. jai sri krishna! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 How do you identify the asuras in India madhava? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Swaminarayan is God but Krsna is not.This is your message and I have got severe problems with that. Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahnava Nitai Das Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 I looked within myself and realised that I am the cause of the creation... Lord Sri Krishna is never placed under material forgetfullness or maya. He is eternally full of all knowledge and complete in all respects (purnam). Those who claim to have realised themselves to be God have moved from one illusion to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 pliase chesc it kakaji.org param pujya sri dinkarbhai patel jai swaminarayan sardar jaimal singh in pray hiss divine charan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 He may be an incarnation.I don't know.It would be better if there were some evidence in scriptures or foretold by sage Vyasa. What do you say about Krsna?Who greater?or both equal?who attractive more? Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Krishna defines asuras or demoniacs in gita daivAsura sampad vibhAg yoga (Divine and Demoniac Nature) chapter. AtatAyis are asuras also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 to tell the truth i never knew anything about the swami narayan sect, i had of course heard of them, but had never read anything by them. So i checked out some of their websites. I found it to be more or less the same as Gaudiya vaisnavism, with Swami Narayan as an incarnation of God. He claimed to be God, and his followers believe that to be so. I didn't find anything that suggested that Krishna was not god, Maybe i'm wrong but it appears that Swami Narayan is accepted as an avatar of Vishnu, or whatever name someone uses for the supreme being. I could fing nothing objectionable in their philosophy, althouhg i have not investigated in detail. i would like to ask the followers of Swami Narayana some questions. Is the liberated jiva upon attaining the highest realm, in rasa with Bhagavan, in a relationship of his choosing ? Is there some teaching you have of the types of rasa you can have with God on the highest plane ? Is there a teaching which explains the inner thoughts and feelings of God, on the highest plane in relation to the jiva ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 theist prabhu, it is very simple. the sankarites, atheists and buddhists in india are the asuras. the christians, muslims and the vaishnavas are all suras. hope it fits in with the stereotype responses - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 jndas prabhu, even in vaishnavism Krishna is accepted as the innermost self of all the living entities. sripad ramanujacharya says that the lord is in the heart of the jiva. this is quoted by srila prabhupada in one of his commentaries. sankara does not negate the realization of jivatma. but he negates the ultimate reality of the jivatma as independant from brahman. after one has realized the jivatma, one realizes tat tvam asi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 >>Swaminarayan is God but Krsna is not.This is your message and I have got severe problems with that.<< - Joy Swaminarayan (other names: ghanshyam, sahajanand swami, sri ji maharaj) is the supmeme god for the follower, and krishna is just a deva to them. this they belive as told by his first disciple gunatitanand, even when sahajanad him skelf has said in his shikshapatri that krishna is the supreme god and has the form. later on he also said that he is an incanation of krishna as an ideal sadhu. his abode is called akshardham which he says is different from krishnaloga or vaikuntha. the follower belive akshardham is superior than vainkuntha. sahajananda identified gunatitanand as the personified akshardham. other than shikshapatri and vachanamrita they do not have spearate scriptures. they do not read full bhagavatam, but only some part recommended by sahajanand. this all is described in the shikshapatri which is some 212 short instructions. please read it. the followers want to go to akshardham and serve swaminarayan, but not as husband or wife. like rama or krishna, swaminarayn has no female partner but male (akshardham). in their temples males and females sit separate and do not do any activity, even celebrtions, unitedly. a swaminarayn sadhu is not supposed to look at women or touch them. women would not touch a sadhu or talk to sadhus. being god, sahajanda has touched women in public sometimes. he never had sex impulse. he was fully liberated, god, right from his birth. his life is full of miracles, and all his pastimes are well recorded. at one time he even dressed like a women and played dandia rasa with her devotee women group in kutch behind closed doors, and his sadhus enjoyed secretly watching this lila through a small hole in the door. he did it so because the women devotee (very advanced) requested so. most of the swaminarayan sadhus are pure and strict in their sadhana. the only thing i do not like of them is that the followers think krishna as a deva and not supreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_ Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 Lord Swaminarayan's Shikshapatri: http://www.lordswaminarayan.org/html/shikshapatri/ An excerpt of some of the verses that refer to Lord Krsna: <font color="blue"> </font color> <font color="blue"> </font color> 1. I (SAHAJANAND SWAMI) meditate in my heart upon Lord Krishna, on whose left stands Radha, on whose bosom resides Laxmiji and who plays (with his Bhaktas) in Vrindavan. 25. No one shall ever here sermons or religious discourses or philosophical talks from a person whose words are likely to lead one astray from the path of devotion to Lord Krishna and/or from the path of one's own Dharma. 29. None shall ever hear or believe in the Shastras which clearly refute (the name, glory, form and existence of) Lord Shri Krishna and his incarnations. 39. None shall ever practice Bhakti of Lord Shri Krishna devoid of Dharma or shall ever give up his Bhakti, for fear of criticism from ignorant people. 54. Thereafter, all shall have darshan of and shall bow respectfully to the image(drawn on paper or cloth) of Lord Shri Krishna with Radha, then shall chant His mantra (eight syllabled one) according to their ability and then shall attend to (their worldly affairs) jobs. 55. My Bhaktas, who like King Ambarish, have dedicated their lives completely to Lord Shri Krishna, shall also similarly go through all procedure of worship of lord Shri Krishna, (as explained above) upto mental worship. 56. These Bhaktas, shall worship the idol of Lord Shri Krishna, made either from stone or metal or Saligram with offering like flowers, sandal paste, fruit, etc. according to time place and their means and then shall repeat His eight syllabled mantra. 57. Thereafter, they shall chant according to their ability, the Stotras (verses in Sanskrit) in praise of Lord Shri Krishna and those who do not know Sanskrit, shall sing His name and glory. 58. Then they shall offer food to him and then shall partake of it as His prasad, they shall thus always remain in service of Lord Krishna with love. 59. Shastras proclaim these Bhaktas as Nirguna (i.e. completely free from mundane qualities like Satva, Rajas, and Tamas) since Lord Shri Krishna (Hari) is Nirguna. Because of their intimate relation with him, all their action also become Nirguna. 60. These Bhaktas shall never drink even water nor shall eat leaves, fruits, roots etc., without first offering it to Lord Krishna. 61. All Bhaktas, who are incapacitated by old age or by some great adverse circumstances and who are, therefore, unable to perform worship (puja) of Lord Shri Krishna themselves, shall give over the idol to some other Bhakta for worship, etc. and then shall offer puja according to their abilities. 63. All my followers shall daily go to the temple of Lord Shri Krishna, in the evening and shall sing loudly the name of Lord Shri Krishna. <font color="blue"> 108. This Isha is Lord Shri Krishna, is Supreme Brahman, is Bhagwan and is the source of all incarnations. </font color> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 so , the first disciple said Krishna was a deva, but Swami narayana said Krishna was God or himself ? Are you sure ? how do they explain this difference ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhav Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 >>Are you sure ? how do they explain this difference ? << i do not know about mark, but i know it. it would be better if some one goes to their web site and ask them the second question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_ Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 <font color="blue"> 108. And that Ishwara is Lord Shree Krishna, who is Parabrahman Purushottam and our most cherished deity. He is worthy of worship by us all. He is the source of all incarnations. </font color> Shatanand then concludes the commentary of this Shloka by stating the fact that the same Shri Krishna, here mentioned as beyond Kshara-Akshara is none other than Lord Shri Swaminarayan. He uses "Shree Krishna" here but that Shree Krishna should be understood without question as Himself. Lord Swaminarayan is the fountainhead of all other incarnations and should be accepted as our Upasya Deva. Shree Swaminarayan, whose every action was divine stood out as Great through the various incidents of His lifetime and so suggest that he truly was God Supreme. His nature, attitude, teachings and kindness are all worthy of praise and paramount in supporting the fact that he is God Supreme. This truly was a great incarnation that brought peace of mind and tranquillity to the masses. He continues to shower his blessings upon us even today, such is the greatness of Lord Swaminarayan. http://www.swaminarayansatsang.com/scriptures/scriptureexplanation.asp?ScriptureID=1&ScriptureDetailsID=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 Everyone first needs to be aware of the various philosophies that exists under the umbrella term of Swaminarayan. There are the BAPS people (Param Murkh Swami), the Swami Narayan Gadi (also known as Maninagar), there are the Kakaji, Anoopam Missions, Gunatit Jyot etc etc who are all breakaway groups involved in 'bhakta worship' formed within the past 100 years or so. The original Swaminarayan sect, formed by Swaminarayan Himself accepts there to be only one God. From Him, all incarnations manifest and merge back into Him. It would therefore be an error to claim Sahajanand or Vasudev Krishna are separate entities - they are the same God. Swaminarayan has never said that He should be worshipped alongside other bhaktas. So all this stuff about Gunatit and Akshar is rubbish. Also, Akshardham is His abode (just like Goloka). Jiva can be elevated to brahmroop by selfless devotion to God and following of his instructions of the Shikshapatri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaishnava_das108 Posted January 10, 2003 Report Share Posted January 10, 2003 First of all, I have many friends who are members of the Swaminarayan sect, and I have also visited the world-famous marble temple here in the UK many times. I have bought a couple of their literature, so I will give my viewpoint here now. The original Swaminarayan sect, formed by Swaminarayan Himself accepts there to be only one God. From Him, all incarnations manifest and merge back into Him. It would therefore be an error to claim Sahajanand or Vasudev Krishna are separate entities - they are the same God. And what is the proof for the truth of this statement? Where does it explicitly state that Krishna is nondifferent from Sahajanand Swami? In this connection, one of my dear friends wrote this small essay about the Swaminarayn sect. I reproduce the same here in full: The Swaminarayan Movement erroneously holds that Sahajanand Swami, founder who was born in in the 1780s is Purna Purushottam Bhagawan and is the source of Krishna! They hold the Shikshapatri, the commandments written by Sahajanand Swami as the supreme instruction on religion. The Shikshapatri on the other hand clearly instructs the followers of Swaminarayan to worship only Krishna. Verse 108 says that Krishna is para-brahma-bhagawan-purushotam, but yet follwers of Swaminarayan falsely say that Sahajanand Swami is purna-purushottam. Verse 115 says that ONLY Lord Krishna is worthy of worship, and one shall not worship men and other deities. I have enclosed a copy of the relevant verses from Shikshapatri on Lord Krishna for the pleasure of the vaisnavas assembled here. This proves beyond doubt that the present day Swaminarayan followers have deviously deviated from the path of pure devotion to Krishna that Swami Sahajanada propounded. How blind can one be? These verses may also help you if you are debating the divinity of Sahajanda Swami with Swaminarayan followers. Shikshapatri (The Book of Divine Commandments) I meditate in my heart on Lord Shri Krishna who has to his left Radha, in whose bosom resides Laxmi and who sportively plays in Vrandavan. (1) I, Sahajanand Swami, address this Shikshapatri from Vrittalaya (Vadtal) to all my followers residing in various parts of the country. (2) Except at Jagannathpuri, neither cooked food nor water even if it be remains of an offering to Lord Krishna shall be accepted, which are served by others who are not approved by age-old conventions to do so. (19) None shall listen to discourses on religious subjects from such persons whose teachings may lead to deviation from Devotion to Lord Krishna or detraction from one's own Dharma. (25) None shall ever believe in such scriptures which by spurious arguments refute and strike at the very root of the existence of Lord Krishna and His incarnations. (29) None shall do Lord Krishna's devotion devoid of Dharma. None shall give up worship of Lord Krishna out of fear of censure by ignorant people. (39) When my followers go to the temple of Krishna either on days of celebration of festival or any other day, they shall keep themselves completely apart from the persons of the opposite sex and shall be careful not to touch them. (40) All my twice-born (Brahmin, Kshatriya, and Vaishya) followers who are initiated into Lord Krishna's devotion by a spiritual master descended from the family of Dharmadev shall always put on round their neck a double kanthi (rosary) of Tulsi beads and shall make a vertical Tilak mark on their foreheads, chest, and on both the arms. (41) This Tilak shall be made of Gopichandan or with Sandal paste mixed with Saffron and Kumkum left over after having been offered to Krishna. (42) Within this vertical Tilak a full-moon shape mark shall be made of the same substance or Kumkum which is offered to Radha and Laxmi. (43) Sat-Shudras (shudras of a higher order) who are devoted to Lord Krishna and who scrupulously and sincerely follow their Dharma shall also put on a kanthi and a vertical Tilak like the twice-born. (44) Those devotees who belong to other than the Sat-Shudra group shall put on a double Kanthi of Sandal beads and make on their forehead only a round mark leaving out the vertical Tilak. (45) All my followers shall every day rise from bed before sun-rise. After meditating on Krishna they shall attend the call of nature. (49) The widows shall abstain from placing on their forehead both a vertical Tilak and a round symbol. Thereafter all my followers shall mentally render devotional service to Lord Krishna. (53) After reverently bowing down before the pictorial image of Radha and Krishna and completing repetition of "mantra" according to one's capacity, my followers shall attend to daily pursuit of worldly duties. (54) Even the devotees like Ambarish who have totally surrendered their self to the Lord shall strictly follow a course of religious practice up to mental worship in the chronological order as laid down above. (55) These Atmanivedi i.e. dedicated devotees shall worship Shri Krishna's image made of stone or metal or Saligram (Vishnu) with offerings like Sandal paste, flowers, fruits, etc., which are procurable at the time according to their respective capacity and then shall recite eight-lettered holy mantra of Shri Krishna. (56) They then shall read hymns or study text of religious scriptures according to their capacity. Those who do not know Sanskrit shall recite songs and holy names of Shri Krishna. (57) They shall then offer food to Lord Krishna and partake of "prasad" from the offerings to the Lord. They shall ever engage themselves with love in the eternal devotional service of Lord Krishna. (58) These devotees shall never even drink water or take roots or fruits without offering them to Lord Krishna. (60) All our devotees who are out of old age or in great adversity are not able to offer worship to the image of Lord Krishna shall hand over the image to other devotee and shall offer mental worship so much as health permits. (61) Only that image of Lord Krishna which is given for worship or installed by the Acharya of Dharmakul shall be worshipped. The other images may be only bowed down but not worshipped. (62) All my followers shall go to the temple of the Lord daily in the evening and shall engage themselves in singing loudly praises and reciting names of Lord Krishna. (63) Discourses on the Lord Krishna's life and teachings shall be delivered and listened to with great respect. On festival days, songs of Lord Krishna shall be sung in accompaniment with musical instruments. (64) Shri Vithalnathji, son of Shri Vallabhacharya who is king among all Vaishnavas, has prescribed the days of Vratas, shall be followed by my followers, who shall observe fasts and festivals accordingly and shall adopt the mode of worship of Lord Krishna as enjoined by him. (81-82) A Pilgrimage of holy places, chief among which is Dwarka, shall be made by our followers in the prescribed manner and as their means permit them. All shall be kind and charitable towards the poor according to their resources. (83) When the solar or the lunar eclipse takes place,---all of my followers shall leave aside every other activity and after purified shall engage themselves in the chanting of the Mantra of Lord Krishna. (86) The four Vedas, Vyas-Sutras, Shrimad Bhagavat, Vishna-Sahasranama from Mahabharat, Shri Bhagavat Gita, Code of conduct named Vidurniti, Shri Vasudeva-Mahatmya from Vishnu-Khand in Skand-Purana, and Yajnavalkya-Smriti which are chief among scriptures are eight favorite scriptures held high by us as authentic. (93,94,95) The Tenth and the Fifth Skandas of Shrimad Bhagavat shall supremely serve the object of realizing the majesty and the glory of the Lord's greatness. (98) The Tenth Skanda, the Fifth Skanda of the Bhagavat ; and Yajnavalkya Smriti shall be esteemed respectively as our Science of Devotion, Science of Yoga, and Science of Dharma. (99) The commentary on Vyas-Sutras, and on Bhagavat Gita by Shri Ramanujacharya shall be given recognition as our Science of the Spirit. (100) The texts contained in these scriptures, which uphold utmost the divine concrete form of Lord Krishna, the importance of Dharma, the supremacy of Devotion, and the necessity of detachment, shall be given superior authority to the rest of the utterances. The secret of the matter is that Bhakti of Lord Krishna shall indissolubly be wedded to Dharma. (101-102) Dharma is right conduct authenticated by Sruti and Smriti. Bhakti (devotion) is extreme profound love for God coupled with the knowledge of the majesty and magnificence of Lord Krishna. (103) Vairagya (detachment) means non-attachment towards all other objects except Lord Krishna. Jnana is right realization of the nature and content of Jiva, Maya, and Ishwar. (104) Who is Ishwar? He is Shri Krishna who is Para Brahma Bhagwan Purushottam and our most cherished Deity. He is worthy to be worshipped by us all. He is the cause of all manifestations and incarnations. (108) Lord Krishna when He is with Radha, shall be known as Radha-Krishna ; with Rukmini, as Laxminarayan ; with Arjuna, as NarNarayan. When He is together with Balabhadra and other devotees, He will be spoken of by such names being placed before His name. (109-110) Devotees such as Radha and others are at times by the side of the Lord and at other times, they become absorbed in His body, being overwhelmed with love and devotion. He then remains one and single and all alone. (111) Therefore no distinction or discrimination shall be made between one and the other of these manifestations. Lord Krishna is permanently two-armed. It is only out of His sweet will that he assumes the different forms like the four-armed, the eight-armed, or the thousand-armed. (112) All men on earth shall always engage themselves in the devotion of Lord Krishna, with the full understanding that there is no other superior way for achieving the Summon bonum of life except the path of devotion to the Lord. (113) Bhakti coupled with Satsang is the most coveted reward of all accomplishments of all virtues and learning of the virtuous and scholarly persons. Even the most learned scholars go down without devotion to Lord Krishna and communion with the Saints (Satsang). (114) It is only Lord Shri Krishna, His incarnations, and His images that alone can be meditated upon. But no man or Deity shall be meditated upon even though he may be a devotee of God or a knower of Brahman. Therefore the latter kind of meditation shall not be done by any of our followers. (115) Our followers shall respectfully listen to the Tenth Skanda of Shrimad Bhagavat daily or at least once in a year. The learned persons shall read it daily or at least once in a year. (117) Our followers shall perform reverently repeated readings (Purascharan) of the Tenth Skanda of Bhagavat and Vishnu--- Sahasranama in a holy place ; for such performances fulfill the desires of the cherished objects. (118) They (followers and acharyas) shall perform the celebration of the conclusion of Vratas like Ekadashi and others as prescribed in the scriptures according to their capacity. The performance of this ceremony yields desired objects. (148) When householders undertake a journey to have a Darshan of the image of Lord Krishna, a preceptor, or a saint, they shall not eat meals of others either during the journey or at the respective places of the temple of Lord Krishna, preceptor, or a saint ; for 'partaking of others' food deprives one of one's merits. They shall, therefore, take their meals at their own cost during such journey. (151) Our followers, both men and women, who shall act in conformity with the commandments of this Shikshapatri shall surely attain the fulfillment of all the four Purusharthas ; Dharma (Ethics), Artha (Wealth), Kama (Desires), and Moksha (Liberation). (206) Those men and women followers who shall transgress the precepts contained in this Shikshapatri shall be deemed by our loyal followers to be outside the fold of our fellowship. (207) Our Satsangi followers shall daily engage themselves in the reading of Shikshapatri. Those who are illiterate and incapable of reading shall reverently attend to the listening of Shikshapatri. (208) When there is none who can read out Shikshapatri, they shall do daily worship of it. All shall pay reverent respect to Shikshapatri as our words are concrete and manifest form. (209) Our Shikshapatri shall be given only to persons endowed with righteous virtues of the Divine and Godly wealth and not to those who possess unrighteous vices of the Dark and devilish powers. (210) We have written this Shikshapatri on the fifth lay of the bright half of the month of Maha of the Vikram Samvat year One Thousand Eight Hundred Eighty Two. Shikshapatri is one which will yield the highest welfare of all human beings. (211) May Lord Krishna, destroyer of total miseries of His devout votaries, protector of Bhakti (devotion) coupled with Dharma, fulfiller of His devotees' desires for cherished happiness, shower the integral beneficence on us all without exception. (212) The conclusion is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 You speak as if you have the authority to decide what is a Sampradaya's philosophy. Please rid yourself of this arrogance. Previous subjects on this discussion a few months ago clearly showed what Swaminarayan's beliefs were. So dont be so ignorant and make foolish claims like "The Swaminarayan Movement erroneously holds that Sahajanand Swami, founder who was born in in the 1780s is Purna Purushottam Bhagawan and is the source of Krishna" "This proves beyond doubt that the present day Swaminarayan followers have deviously deviated from the path of pure devotion to Krishna that Swami Sahajanada propounded. How blind can one be?" Swaminarayan was given three names when he was a child. Hari, KRISHNA and Harikrishna. For your kind information, please refer to Shloka 209, for which your translation is inaccurate. Also, have you bothered referring to the Vachanamritam aswell? Don't draw conclusions based on incomplete information. You believe Krishna is Lord. Fine. Some believe Swaminarayan is Lord. Fine. Lord is one and appears in many forms. Krishna has said to Arjuna himself that his forms are infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaishnava_das108 Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 You speak as if you have the authority to decide what is a Sampradaya's philosophy. Please rid yourself of this arrogance. Previous subjects on this discussion a few months ago clearly showed what Swaminarayan's beliefs were. So dont be so ignorant and make foolish claims like "The Swaminarayan Movement erroneously holds that Sahajanand Swami, founder who was born in in the 1780s is Purna Purushottam Bhagawan and is the source of Krishna" Perhaps you did not read my post correctly. I clearly stated that I was reposting a small article written by a good friend of mine, who HAS done the research into the Swaminarayan sampradaya. I am confident that his research was fruitful.As for authority to judge other sampradayas, I never claimed to be in such a position, but if I see certain propaganda that I want to question, who or what is there to stop me? This is the purpose of a discussion board. Swaminarayan was given three names when he was a child. Hari, KRISHNA and Harikrishna. Many Indian people have a religious name. Does that mean that they are avatars of those respective deities too? And no, I haven't read Vacahanmritam or Shiksapatri. The translations produced by my friend are probably present in his copy. Also, the text is in Gujurati, so any Gujurati person can re-translate the text adequately. Don't draw conclusions based on incomplete information. You believe Krishna is Lord. Fine. Some believe Swaminarayan is Lord. Fine. Lord is one and appears in many forms. Krishna has said to Arjuna himself that his forms are infinite. The Swaminarayan sampradaya followers here in the UK produce systematic propaganda against ISKCON, thus inviting investigation into their own theological belifs and practices, as well as their traditions. Yes, Krishna's forms are infinite, but there is no scriptural record of a prediction of a "prominent" avatar such as Sahajanand Swami. Also, if Sahajanand was Krishna, then why does he explicitly tell his followers to worship Krishna? What is the logic here? Shouldn't he rather tell his followers to worship him, which they do anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 "Also, if Sahajanand was Krishna, then why does he explicitly tell his followers to worship Krishna? What is the logic here? Shouldn't he rather tell his followers to worship him, which they do anyway?" Also, if Lord Chaitanya was Krishna, then why does he explicitly tell his followers to worship Krishna? What is the logic here? Shouldn't he rather tell his followers to worship him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 So are you suggesting your only problem with the Swaminarayan Sampraday is that they accept Sahajanand Swami as Krishna or as a manifestation of Krishna? I find it very difficult to believe that 'your friend' wrote that article - but quite frankly I am not surprised, because its the typical attitude of certain ISKCONites. Too narrow minded to accept anything else. I would then pose to you - why did Swaminarayan install His own images in His temples if they were not to be worshipped? And any negative propoganda the so-called Swaminarayan people have been spreading is most likely to be from the BAPS followers (the richer, more affluent sect) and not the original Sampraday followers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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