Vaikuntha levels and rasa (Swami-Narayana level)

[anadi]

Please can somebody give some quotation from the shastra that backs up the above statement.

[kailasa]

So mutch clauses abhut this. Lord Caitanya it is madhurya or no?

[Guest guest]

 

The intimate sakhis of Srimati Radharani are Her personal expansions kaya viuha (in tattva) and Her dasi servants (in rasa).

 

In tattva Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna.

From the point of view of rasa Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Srimati Radharani, as he said to Ramananda Raya

I have now converted My body and mind into the ecstasy of Srimati Radharani; thus I am tasting My own personal sweetness in that form. CC M-lila 8.288.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Is in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) in separation (vipralambha) from Krsna

 

His intimate associates which in Krsna lila are in conjugal love with Him, as the intimate dasis of Srimati Radhika,

and tasted the mood of separation from Krsna,

now came with Him to nourish and guide Him in the bhava of conjugal love in separation.

This is prominent in Antya lila.

 

They had not come to taste the conjugal love in separation (vipralambha madhurya rasa) with Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they tasted the conjugal love in separation in Krsna lila.

What is the mood of the gopis as the associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu? Audarya? Or madhurya bhava in vipralamba?

 

On the other side sometimes happend that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and some of His intimate associates are overwhelmed by the feelings they had in Krsna lila.

In tattva Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna.

 

See Purport CC M-lila 8.23

Srila Ramananda Raya was an incarnation of the gopi Visakha. Since Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was Lord Krsna Himself, there was naturally an awakening of love between Visakha and Krsna. The gopi Visakha is a principal gopi assisting Srimati Radharani. Ramananda Raya and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu embraced, since their natural love also was awakened.

On the other side if Srivasa Pandit is in Krsna lila in sakya rasa, what kind of natural love is awakened in his heart when he recongnized his loving friend Krsna, under the guise of Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

Is this madhurya bhava in sambhoga oder in vipralambha? Oder is this sakhya bhava?

 

Madhavanada prabhu thank you for your previous wonderful commentaries.

Maybe you can help this time too.

 

 

 

[anadi]

Gosvami: Madhura-rasa is said to be the most important of the bhakti-rasas

Vrajanatha: What are the alambanas of this rasa?

Gosvami: In this rasa the visaya (the object of love) is Sri Krsna, the hero whose handsomeness has no equal.

The transcendental asraya (container of love) are the devotees who relish pastimes with Him.

Of the many uddipanas (stimuli) in this rasa,

the sound of Krsna's flute

is the first.

The anubhavas of this rasa include

sidelong glances and smiles.

 

One afternoon Vijaya-kumara and Vrajanatha were sitting by the seashore, looking at the waves, and observing how the wave-filled ocean was like life. Vijaya-kumara said, "No one could say what would happen next in life. Therefore we should immediately learn about the path of raga-marga (raganuga bhakti)

 

(From Jaiva Dharma Cap. 30)

 

According to the advice of the

diksha or bhajana shiksha guru

one should be sure that he does not break

the niyamagrahah principle,

abandoning the rules prescribed for

one' s eligibility and adopting those rules which are

meant for others

[kailasa]

**The intimate sakhis of Srimati Radharani are Her personal expansions kaya viuha (in tattva) and Her dasi servants (in rasa).

 

***In tattva Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna.

From the point of view of rasa Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Srimati Radharani, as he said to Ramananda Raya

I have now converted My body and mind into the ecstasy of Srimati Radharani; thus I am tasting My own personal sweetness in that form. CC M-lila 8.288.

 

Lord Caitanya madhurya rasa or no?

 

 

[anadi]

Srivasa Pandit in Krisna lila sakhya, gaura lila madhurya

Weil

Caitanya Mahaprabhu in madhurya rasa.

 

I think this is not a quite good reason.

Why?

Another meaning for rasa is relation.

With whom is Caitanya Mahaprabhu in madhurya rasa (conjugal love relation)?

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Is in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) in separation (vipralambha) with KRSNA. This is very prominent in Antya lila

I have now converted My body and mind into the ecstasy of Srimati Radharani; thus I am tasting My own personal sweetness in that form. CC M-lila 8.288.

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is not in conjugal love (relation) with any of his parikaras,

in the sense of parakya bhava (conjugal unmarried) or svakya bhava.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is in the mood of Srimati Radharani, not in the mood of Krsna.

 

According the definition of sringara (conjugal) rasa which is called madhurya rasa, its characteristics cannot be applicable to Sri Caitanya and his parikaras.

 

I don t have any information from the shastra where some of our gosvamis describe sringara (conjugal love) madhura between Sri Caitanya and his parikaras.

 

On the other side sometimes happend that Caitanya Mahaprabhu and some of His intimate associates are overwhelmed by the feelings they had in Krsna lila.

 

See Purport CC M-lila 8.23

Srila Ramananda Raya was an incarnation of the gopi Visakha. Since Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was Lord Krsna Himself, there was naturally an awakening of love between Visakha and Krsna. The gopi Visakha is a principal gopi assisting Srimati Radharani. Ramananda Raya and Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu embraced, since their natural love also was awakened.

 

On the other side if Srivasa Pandit is in Krsna lila in sakya rasa, what kind of natural love is awakened in his heart when he recongnized his loving friend Krsna, under the guise of Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

Is this madhurya bhava in union oder in separation?

Is quite impossible.

It is most probably sakhya bhava.

 

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Is in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) in separation (vipralambha) with KRSNA. Another meaning for rasa is relation.

 

[kailasa]

***On the other side if Srivasa Pandit is in Krsna lila in sakya rasa, what kind of natural love is awakened in his heart when he recongnized his loving friend Krsna, under the guise of Caitanya Mahaprabhu?

Is this madhurya bhava in union oder in separation?

Is quite impossible.

It is most probably sakhya bhava.

 

No sakhya. Impossible it is for dictionary fools. Satyabhama svakiya in Krisna lila - parakiya in gaura Lila.

 

***Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Is in madhurya rasa (conjugal love) in separation (vipralambha) with KRSNA. Another meaning for rasa is relation.

 

 

Yes/ NO RADHA, NO RADHA. Lord Caitanya in this sense IS RADHA, all His devotee expansions Radha.

 

First BG, sekond SB, then CC. No understand BG person all life stay in misconception. It is no good preachings. For beginners - "prema-bhava".

 

SBT begining teach this babaji.

 

[anadi]

This statement is neither a scriptural argument, nor a logical one based on scriptural quotations.

Everybody would think that this is an insult, when somebody would say your thinking belongs into the dictionary for fools.

Vaishnavas would think that this not a proper behaviour , maybe some would say the word aparadha, and other would speak about trinad api sunicena.

Maybe Krsna thought it wise to remember me that I am a no.1 full, Krsna is very merciful, and vaishnavas too,

but somehow this statement, was not so satisfactory, please say more.

 

1.Tell me more about the loving relationship of Satyabama in Krsna lila and in Gaura lila

2.Please make a comparison between the relationship of Satyabama in both lila

with that of Srivasa Pandita in both lila, so that everybody can logically very easily

understand your point of view.

 

[anadi]

"The goddess of fortune considered that her vow of chastity would not be damaged by her relationship with Krsna. Rather, by associating with Krsna she could enjoy the benefit of the rasa dance."

 

Venkata Bhatta further explained, "Mother Laksmi, the goddess of fortune, is also an enjoyer of transcendental bliss; therefore if she wanted to enjoy herself with Krsna, what fault is there? Why are You joking so about this?"

 

Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, "I know that there is no fault on the part of the goddess of fortune, but still she could not enter into the rasa dance. We hear this from revealed scriptures.

 

" 'When Lord Sri Krsna was dancing with the gopis in the rasa-lila, He put His arms around their necks and embraced them. This transcendental favor was never bestowed upon the goddess of fortune or the other consorts in the spiritual world. Nor was such a thing ever imagined by the most beautiful girls in the heavenly planets, girls whose bodily luster and aroma exactly resemble the lotus flower. And what to speak of worldly women, who may be very, very beautiful according to material estimation?'

Srimad-Bhagavatam (10.47.60).

 

"But can you tell Me why the goddess of fortune, Laksmi, could not enter the rasa dance? The authorities of Vedic knowledge could enter the dance and associate with Krsna.

 

Having been asked by Caitanya Mahaprabhu why the goddess of fortune could not enter into the rasa dance whereas the authorities on Vedic knowledge could, Venkata Bhatta replied, "I cannot enter into the mysteries of this behavior."

 

Venkata Bhatta then admitted, "I am an ordinary human being. Since my intelligence is very much limited and I am easily agitated, my mind cannot enter within the deep ocean of the pastimes of the Lord.

 

You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna Himself. You know the purpose of Your activities, and the person whom You enlighten can also understand Your pastimes."

 

The Lord replied, "Lord Krsna has a special characteristic: He attracts everyone's heart by the mellow of His personal conjugal love.

 

[kailasa]

"Srivasa, Haridasa, Ramadasa, Gadadhara, Murari, Mukunda, Candrasekhara and Vakrisvara are all glorious and are all learned scholars, but the sentiment of servitude to Lord Caitanya makes them mad in ecstasy.

Adi 6.51

 

"Thus they dance, sing and laugh like madmen, and they instruct everyone, "Just be loving servants of Lord Caitanya."

 

"The devotees headed by Gadadhara Pandita are to be considered incarnations of the internal potency of the Lord. They are confidential devotees engaged in the service of the Lord.

 

PURPORT

 

In connection with verses sixteen and seventeen, Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura explains in his Anubhasya: “There are specific symptoms by which the INTERNAL DEVOTEES and the unalloyed or PURE DEVOTEES are to be known.

 

Thus devotees who are in a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in conjugal love are considered to be the most confidential devotees of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Those who engage in the service of Lord Nityananda Prabhu and Lord Advaita Prabhu generally have relationships of parental love, fraternity, servitude and neutrality. When such devotees develop great attachment for SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, they too become situated within the intimate circle of devotees in conjugal love."

 

"The internal devotees or potencies are all eternal associates in the pastimes of the Lord. Only with them does the Lord advent to propound the sankirtana movement, only with them does the Lord taste the mellow of conjugal love, and only with them does He distribute this love of God to people in general.

 

"The characteristics of Krsna are understood to be a storehouse of transcendental love. Although that storehouse of love certainly came with Krsna when He was present, it was sealed. But when Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu came with His other associates of the Panca-tattva, they broke the seal and plundered the storehouse to taste transcendental love of Krsna. The more they tasted it, the more their thirst for it grew.

 

"Sri Paпca-tattva themselves danced again and again and thus made it easier to drink nectarean love of Godhead. They danced, cried, laughed and chanted like madmen, and in this way they distributed love of Godhead.

 

PURPORT

 

People generally cannot understand the actual meaning of chanting and dancing. Describing the Gosvamis, Sri Srinivasa Acarya stated, kеслotkйrtana-gдna-nartana-parau: not only did Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His associates demonstrate this chanting and dancing, but the six Gosvamis also followed in the next generation. The present Krsna consciousness movement follows the same principle, and therefore simply by chanting and dancing we have received good responses all over the world. It is to be understood, however, that this chanting and dancing do not belong to this material world. They are actually transcendental activities, for the more one engages in chanting and dancing, the more he can taste the nectar of transcendental love of Godhead.

 

"All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda! All glories to Advaita Prabhu, and all glories to the devotees of Lord Caitanya, headed by Srivasa!

 

"The description of Lord Caitanya as the gardener and the tree is inconceivable. Now hear with attention about the branches of this tree.

 

"The associates of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu were many, but none of them should be considered lower or higher. This cannot be ascertained.

 

"All the great personalities in the line of Lord Caitanya enumerated these devotees, but they could not distinguish between the greater and the lesser.

 

"I offer my obeisances to all the dear devotees of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the eternal tree of love of Godhead. I offer my respects to all the branches of the tree, the devotees of the Lord who distribute the fruit of love of Krsna.

 

"The two brothers Srivasa Pandita and Sri Rama Pandita started two branches that are well known in the world.

 

[srivasa Pandita devotee Lord Caitanya]

 

"All glories to Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda! All glories to Advaita Prabhu, and all glories to the devotees of Lord Caitanya, headed by Srivasa!

 

...We also understand from the description of Sri Caitanya-bhagavata that after Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhus acceptance of the sannyasa order, Srivasa Pandita left Navadvipa, possibly because of feelings of separation, and domiciled at Kumarahatta.

 

************

 

*Pradhupada direct embodiment pure devotee and avesa Panca tattva. He worked in thousands moods, but basic mood this mood Lord Caitanya.

 

*SBST is devotee Lord Caitanya.

 

"...So his method of preaching is just according to the, strictly according to the rules and regulation of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And as Caitanya Mahaprabhu was called by Advaita Prabhu, similarly, Bhaktivinoda Thakura, when he saw this condition of pseudo Vaisnava all over the country, he also prayed to LORD CAITANYA that "You kindly send somebody from YOUR PERSONAL staff so that I can start this movement." You see? So by the grace of Lord Caitanya, as we pray, sri-gaura-karuna-sakti-vigrahaya namo stu te. Gaura... He is mercy representation of Lord Caitanya. "

 

The relation Lord Caitanya - Gadadhara *********

 

"Gadadhara Panditas pure ecstatic love for Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was also very deep. It was like that of Rukminidevi, who was always especially submissive to Krsna."

 

"Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu sometimes desired to see Gadadhara Panditas affectionate anger, but because of knowledge of the Lords opulences, his anger was never invoked.

 

PURPORT

 

Joking with Rukminidevi in Dvaraka, Krsna once advised her to accept another husband because He thought Himself unfit for her. Rukminidevi, however, unable to understand His joking words, took them very seriously and immediately fell to the ground in fear of separation from Him. In the pastimes of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Jagadananda Pandita was always in disagreement with the Lord like Satyabhama, whereas Gadadhara Pandita was always awed by the Lords opulence and was therefore submissive to the Lord under all circumstances.

 

"For this purpose Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu sometimes showed His apparent anger. Hearing of this anger inspired great fear in the heart of Gadadhara Pandita.

Antya 7.147

 

"Previously, in krsna-lila, when Lord Krsna wanted to joke with Rukminidevi, she took His words seriously, and fear awoke within her mind.

 

***********

 

"The Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika (120-24) states that Ramananda Raya was formerly Arjuna. He is also considered to have been an incarnation of the gopi Lalita, although in the opinion of others he was an incarnation of Visakhadevi.

 

*Ramananda Raya is Arjuna, but He works as Lalita or Visakha.

 

"Svarupa Damodara has been identified as Lalitд-devi, the second expansion of Radharani. However, the authoritative Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika of Kavi-karлapьra describes Svarupa Dдmodara as the same Visakha-devi who serves the Lord in Goloka Vrndavana. Therefore it is to be understood that Sri Svarupa Damodara is a direct expansion of Radharani who helps the Lord experience the attitude of Radharani.

 

*Svarupa Damodara is Visakha-devi, But works as Radha or Lalita

 

"In the Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika, verses 147 through 153, it is stated: "The pleasure potency of Sri Krsna formerly known as Vrndavanisvari is now personified in the form of Sri Gadadhara Pandita in the pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu." Sri Svarupa Damodara Gosvami has pointed out that in the shape of Laksmi, the pleasure potency of Krsna, she was formerly very dear to the Lord as Syamasundara-vallabha. The same Syamasundara-vallabha is now present as Gadadhara Pandita. Formerly, as Lalita-sakhi, she was always devoted to Srimati Radharani. In the Twelfth Chapter of this part of the Caitanya-caritamrta there is a description of the descendants or disciplic succession of Gadadhara Pandita.

 

*Gadadhara is Lalita or Radha as internal energy - sakti tattva, but works like Laksmi. As Svarupa Damodara itself plays a role Radha He know it or pointed it. Gadadhara in Krisna lila is Lalita.

 

Gadadhara is Radha, but most works like Laksmi show as Lord Caitanya play role Radha and His devotees too.

 

Gadadhara is - Radha like internal energy, Lalita as the close girlfriend and Laksmi in the direct relations with Lord Caitanya. In a general sense Gadadhara is all kinds of internal energy.

 

*All devotees Lord Caitanya expansion Radha. All devotees - all qualities devotional servise. It is ALL Radha or many aspects devotional servise. All CC describes all these aspects of devoted service or internal energy.

 

*Those who is in separation with Lord Caitanya not below than those who is directly connected to Him. On the contrary separation with Lord Caitanya strengthens their feelings even more.

 

*Therefore as devotees Lord Caitanya the differences between the material world and spiritual world do not see. The material world again only strengthens their feelings. " I am ready to serve life behind life " is there can be a metaphor? Is not, this mood of pure fidelity. Therefore Prabhupada writes - "it is a love".

 

*Sakhi Krisna lila devoted Gadadhara Pandita, other rases are devoted Lord Nitayanada and Advaita Acarya, but devotees Lord Caitanya rise directly on a level of internal energy.

 

"Sri Radha Thakurani is the embodiment of mahabhava. She is the repository of all good qualities and the crest jewel among all the lovely consorts of Lord KRSNA.

 

"After this incident, the Lord remained in an ecstatic position for twenty-one hours, and all the devotees saw His specific pastimes.

 

"...Some devotees call this exhibition of ecstasy by the Lord sata-prahariya bhava, or "the ecstasy of twenty-one hours," and others call it mahabhava-prakaзa or maha-prakaзa.

 

*Goswamis are this mood. Some others? Prabhupada are? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

"That supreme ecstasy of Srimati Radharani is the essence of spiritual life. Her only business is to fulfill all the desires of KRSNA.

 

"Srimati Radharani is the topmost spiritual gem, and the other gopis-Lalita, Visakha and so on-are expansions of Her spiritual body.

 

*Lord Caitanya expand Himself through devotees. In separation with Lord Caitanya devotees as are in mood of internal energy too.

 

"...There is a supreme symptom of ecstatic love which is called mahдbhava. This mahabhava expression was possible only in Radharani, but later on when Sri Krsna Caitanya appeared to feel the mode of love of Radharani, He also expressed all of the symptoms of mahabhava. Sri Rupa Gosvami says in this connection that when the symptoms of ecstatic love become the most bright, that stage is accepted as mahabhava.

 

"Lord Sri Krsna is the reservoir of all pleasure, and Srimati Radharani is the personification of ecstatic love of Godhead. These two forms has combined as one in Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This being the case, Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu revealed His real form to Ramananda Raya.

 

*******

 

SBST and Srila Prabhupada are in one mood, it is parampara. Mood Prabhupada this mood SBST. Mood SBT this mood SBST. Only SBT has described all internal energy. SBST has given sambandha Krisna lila. And Srila Prabhupada gives only essence, not considering especially sambandha Krisna lila, it no needs for this mood.

 

Therefore Prabhupada I also has told - has given you all. Because the mature fruit of devoted service has arrived here!

 

We you see all the same are not perfect, only proud can be completely perfect. And gradually from this "imperfection" the perfection is born. There is no necessity for all artificial jumps. There is no necessity anything to simulate.

 

*************

 

Anadi Prabhu -

 

1. Krisna lila - Gaura lila are at one level. Gaura lila is higher actually in spiritual sense.

 

2. Description svarupa devotees in Krisna lila in CC it secondarily. The description of games Lord Caitanya on the first place.

 

3. The description of spiritual moods in CC are more intended for Gaura lila than for Krisna lila. The description of spiritual moods in CC approach and for Krisna lila, but in maximum sense are intended for another (Gaura lila).

[anadi]

 

The following is the begining of the class given by Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja on the morning of Sri Krsna Janmastami. In this class, Srila Maharaja explained the deep meaning of Sri Jayadeva Gosvami's bhajana, Sri Mangala-gitam. The translation was kindly given by Uttama dasa brahmacari:]

 

In the beginning of this morning's class, Srila Maharaja asked Krsna dasa brahmacari to lead the assembled devotees in singing Sri Mangala-gitam. He said that because today is Krsna's Appearance Day, we should begin by first of all singing this kirtana. Then he said, "Who is really qualified to hear this bhajana? Sri Krsna Himself is actually the only person qualified to hear it. Sri Jayadeva Gosvami is only singing this song to give Krsnacandra happiness. He hopes to see Him pleased."

 

After the bhajana, Srila Maharaja gave the following elaboration of the verses: When Krsna sees Radharani looking towards Him with sidelong glances, He looses all His power and begins to fall to the ground. At this time Madhumangala notices and says, "What are You doing? Your mother, father, and all Your relatives are watching. You should check Yourself."

 

srita-kamalakuca-mandala! dhrta-kundala! e

kalita-lalita-vanamala! jaya jaya deva hare

 

Krsnacandra takes shelter of srita kamala. Srita means shelter, and here, kamala means Radharani. Kuca-mandala means that Krsna is taking shelter of the breasts of Radharani.

Dhrta-kundala. Krsna's kundala (earrings) are not ordinary. His kundala is the glories of Radharani, and He is always "wearing" that.

Kalita lalita. Lalita means very attractive and beautiful. Here, Lalita refers to Krsna's vanamala. His garland is made from different kinds of forest flowers. It hangs around His neck and extends down to His lotus feet.

Jaya jaya deva hare: all glories to this Krsna who steals all the distress of the living entities. Especially, He steals the heart of Srimati Radharani. No one can steal the heart of Radharani, except for Krsnacandra.

 

dina-mani-mandala-mandana! bhava-khandana e

muni-jana-manasa-hamsa! jaya jaya deva hare

 

Srila Maharaja explained that generally dina mani means the sun, but here it means all the universes. India is the topmost place in all the universes, and Sri Vraja Bhumi, the topmost place in India, is the crown jewel in all the universes. So here, dina mani means that Vraja-mandala, not the Sun-god, is the crown jewel in all the visva-mandalas.

Bhava means samsara, material existence, and it also means bandhana, bondage. He who delivers others from this samsara bandhana is called bhava-khandana. In this connection, is there any material bondage for the Vraja-devis? They have none at all. Their only bondage is their feelings of separation from Krsna, which are called viraha bandhana. Krsna is the only person qualified to remove this bondage of separation from the Vraja-devis, so bhava-khandana means that Krsna can remove the distress of separation of the gopis.

 

[kailasa]

AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is devotee Lord Caitanya.

 

No needs sambhoga interpritation, they do not understand Gaura lila. It is mix. It is mix Krisna lila. It is mix or do not understanding Gaura lila.

 

It is eternal separation.

[kailasa]

Sriavasa Pandit in madhurya rasa. In this sense Narada Muni it is secondary.

 

Prabhupada is avesa Radharani if you not understood. It is HE be teach you guru. All world. HIS teachihg is top all devotion.

[anadi]

Muni-jana-manasa-hamsa means the great sages, especially those who meditated on Krsna for a long time in the Dandakaranya forest. It applies to all the yautiki rsis (those who came to Krsna in a group) and ayautiki rsis (those who came individually) who became gopis in their next birth. Muni also refers to Sri Sukadeva Gosvami. Krsnacandra is just like the swan, swimming in the minds of these munis. Jaya jaya deva hare. Jayadeva Gosvami is singing, "All glories to this Krsna."

 

kaliya-visadhara-ganjana! jana-ranjana e

 

yadu-kula-nalina-dinesa! jaya jaya deva hare

 

Kaliya-visadhara ganjana refers to that Krsna who smashes the pride of Kaliya. Krsna easily removed the poison of Kaliya, although he was extremely poisonous, and after doing so Kaliya became like amrta, nectar. In the same way, Krsna can also smash our anarthas, unwanted desires. We therefore pray to that Krsna.

 

Jana-ranjana. Jana here means Vraja-jana, the residents of Vraja, like Nanda Baba, Yasoda Ma, and all of Krsna's friends and cows. Jana here especially means the Vraja-devis, and among them, Srimati Radhika is the most prominent. Krsna is the only person who gives pleasure to the Vraja-jana. He has no other duty; He is always thinking how to give pleasure to Srimati Radharani.

 

Yadu-kula-nalina-dinesa. Yadu-kula means the dynasty of Nanda Baba, not the dynasty of Mathura. Nalina means lotus flower, and here nalina especially means the lotus flower of the Vraja dynasty, the Vraja-devis, who are just like the lotus in Vraja-mandala. Dinesa means the sun, and here dinesa refers to Krsna. He is just like the sun for the lotus flower of Vraja-bhumi. When the lotus flowers of Vraja-mandala offers themselves to Krsna, they begin to blossom, and therefore Jayadeva Gosvami is singing, jaya jaya deva hare: "I'm praying to this Hari, who, just like the sunlight, can make the flower-like gopis blossom."

 

[stonehearted]

anadi: **I am quite sure, Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada never write that Parlada Maharaja is in vatsalya rasa, and this, just because he understands the science of rasa. He is a rupa-anuga.

 

"...Here the feelings of Prahlada Maharaja were in the mellow of vatsalya, filial love and affection."

SB 7.4.40 PURPORT

 

If somebody knows some explanation that can reconcile the statements of the previous acaryas, with the explanation of SB Svami Prabhupada, please help.

 

Dear anadi, Apparently, Srila Prabhupada did write that. Now, I'm not an expert in rasa. However, I do have a dictionary. In the purport you cite, Srila Prabhupada clarifies, perhaps even defines, his use of "vatsalya": "filial love and affection." English dictionaries define filial as pertaining to the relationship od a child or offspring to a parent. Knowing this, this purport has always been clear to me: Prahlad feels the same sort of dependent love for Lord Nrisinghadeva as a son does for his father. A complete examination would necesarily include looking up "vatsalya" in a Sanskrit-English dictionary to see if vatsalya works in both directions.. Unfortunately, mine is in a box somewhere and isn't immediately handy. If anyone has an Apte or Monier-Williams at hand, they may be able to help clear this up.

[livingentity]

According to Monier-Williams:

 

vAtsalya

 

Meaning n. (fr. {vatsala}) affection or tenderness (esp. towards offspring) , fondness or love for.

 

 

[stonehearted]

livingentity: According to Monier-Williams: vAtsalya

Meaning n. (fr. {vatsala}) affection or tenderness (esp. towards offspring) , fondness or love for.

 

Hmmm . . . that's it? It sure wouldn't help clear anadi's doubt, would it?

[livingentity]

I am also looking on line to see if I can find more clarification.

[stonehearted]

I just looked at Apte's online dictionary, and it also indicates the affection of a parent for a child or offspring.

 

I looked in a book I have as a reference for understanding some principles of Sanskrit poetics. At first I thought I saw some indication that vAtsala might include filial love, but a couple of pages later, love of a parent or superior was discussed as "bhakti."

 

So far the best indication of Srila Prabhupada's intention is in the purport itself.

[livingentity]

Found the following on line:

 

"When ecstatic love develops into the relationship of parenthood and becomes steadily established, the relationship is called vatsalya-rasa. The exhibition of this vatsalya-rasa standard of devotional service can be found in the dealings of Krishna with His devotees who represent themselves as superior personalities like father, mother and teacher." (Nectar of Devotion, Chap. 43)

 

Personalities in Parental Affection Toward Krishna

This list is in order of superior important. Mother Yasoda and Nanda Maharaja are considered the supermost of all elderly personalities.

Mother Yasoda

Maharaja Nanda

Mother Rohini, Balarama's mother

All the elderly gopis whose sons were taken away by Lord Brahma.

Devaki, the wife of Vasudeva

Other fifteen wives of Vasudeva

Kunti, the mother of Arjuna

Vasudeva, the real father of Krishna

Sandipani Muni, Krishna's teacher

[anadi]

Dear stonehearted thank you very much for all.

 

Mayby there is not a doubt but an enigma.

According his position Praladha cannot be in vatsalya rasa:

Again Srila Bhaktivinoda says in Jaiva Dharma:

"The rasas cannot be manifested in relation to an impersonal qualityless Supreme. They are manifest only in relation to the Supreme Person.

In santa rasa the Lord's supreme power and opulence are prominent.

The dasya rasa, where the Lord's position as the supreme master is prominent, is above santa rasa.

The sakhya rasa, where the idea that one is the Lord's equal is prominent, is above dasya rasa.

The vatsalya rasa where the idea that one is the Lord's superior is prominent, is above sakhya rasa."

 

So the devotee having the feelings of a child put him not in a superior position to the Lord, so that he might be accepted as beeing in vatsalya rasa.

 

But Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada knew all this and

the dear devotee Livingenity proved that

 

"When ecstatic love develops into the relationship of parenthood and becomes steadily established, the relationship is called vatsalya-rasa. The exhibition of this vatsalya-rasa standard of devotional service can be found in the dealings of Krishna with His devotees who represent themselves as superior personalities like father, mother and teacher." (Nectar of Devotion, Chap. 43)

 

So the statement that Praladha is in Vatsalya rasa will confuse many.

The advice of the scripture is that one should study them under the guidance of a realized soul.

 

And I am happy that tomorow I will meet my diksa guru

Om visnupada paramahamsa astotara sata sri srimad bhaktivedanta narayana maharaja,

and relish his nectarian hari kathas.

This is my fortune.

Maybe some are more fortunate.

We should share our fortune.

Krsna is very merciful, and the vaishnavas too.

[anadi]

If by Krsna's mercy one is able to see directly, one must keep that revelation always a secret. I will repeat to you what the previous acaryas have taught about this. Anything more than that you will soon see for yourself by Lord Krsna's mercy. Pure spiritual perception exists in Goloka. Material ideas do not exist there at all. To nourish the rasas, the Lord's spiritual potency (cit-sakti) manifests all wonderful states of being (bhava). In this way many ideas and conceptions are manifested. In Goloka Krsna is beginningless. He is never born. Still, to help the Lord's pastimes, the Lord's spiritual potency convinces Nanda and Yasoda that they are Krsna's parents.

In this way the vatsalya rasa is manifested.

[anadi]

An important principle in rasa is that

rasa is a characteristic of the devotee

and the Lord reciprocates accordingly to the rasa of His devotee.

In Goloka Vrindavan The Lord (Krsna or Caitanya) resides with devotees of all rasas.

And to say that in gaura lila the Lord is in only one rasa is defective.

 

We have a statement which try to turn the meaning of rasa up side down.

 

Lord Caitanya is in gaura lila in madhurya rasa in separation (with who?)

The conclusion would be that all the devotees accompanying Him are in the madhurya rasa eventually in separation.

So should be proven that Srivas Pandit which is in Sakya rasa in Krsna lila,

have to be in madhurya rasa in Gaura lila.

 

And this was the argument to prove that Praladha Maharaja which is in Vaikuntha in dasya rasa, should be in prakat lila with Lord Nrisimhadeva in a higher rasa (vatsalya).

 

Both statement are wrong (Praladha Maharaja is not in vatsalya rasa and Srivasa Pandit is not in madhurya rasa)

 

Senior devotees say that one prominent example is Haridas Thakur, who as Brahma, he saw in Lord Caitanya His worshipable Lord Vishnu.

 

 

 

[kailasa]

***Lord Caitanya is in gaura lila in madhurya rasa in separation (with who?)

 

With Krisna.

 

***Both statement are wrong (Praladha Maharaja is not in vatsalya rasa and Srivasa Pandit is not in madhurya rasa)

 

Srivasa Pandit is madhurya rasa.

 

It is wrong prechings confuse disciples wery "right" parampara.