Pritesh01 Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 - How can you recognize true devotees? - How can you recoginize imposters or non-devotees? - How does god 'punish' asuraas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sashi Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 I was wondering similar things, so i looked some things up in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. This is some of what i read on the subject. -How can you recognize true devotees? 1:29 Softheartedness 1:44 Conscious of moral principles 12:15 Since a devotee is kind to everyone, he does not act in such a way as to put others into anxiety.at the same time,if others try to put a devotee into anxiety,he is not disturbed. It is by the grace of the lord that he is so practised that he is not disturbed by any outward disturbance....... 12:16 Naturally a devotee takes bath at least twice a day and rises early in the morning for devotonal service.thus he is clean both inwardly and outwardly.a devotee is always expert because he fully knows the sense of all activities of life,and he is convinced of the authoratative scriptures.A devotee never takes the part of a particular party;therefore he is carefree.He is never pained because he is free from all designations;he knows that his whole body is a designation,so if there are some bodily pains he is free. 12:18&19 A devotee is always free from all bad association.sometimes one is praised and sometimes one is defamed;that is the nature of human society. but a devotee is always transcendental to artificial fame and infamy,distress or happiness. He is very patient. He does not speak of anything but the topics about krishna...... - How can you recoginize imposters or non-devotees? 3:6 There are many pretenders who refuse to work in KC but make a show of meditation,while actually dwelling within the mind upon sense enjoyment. Such pretenders may also speak on dry philosophy in order to bluff sophisticated followers,but according to this verse these are the greatest cheaters. 16:1-3 The theory that there is no need of austerity in life,that one can go on speculating and everything will be nice, is neither recommended in the vedic literature nor in the BG. Such theories are manufactured by show bottle spiritualists who are trying to gather more followers. 16:5 ..they do not follow the principles. They are always arrogant or proud in posessing some type of education or so much wealth. They desire to be worshipped by others,and demand respectability,although they do not command respect. Over trifles they become very angry and speak harshly not gently.They do not know what should be done or what should not be done.They do everything whimsically,according to their own desire,and they do not recognise any authority. 16:7 Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done.neither cleanliness nor proper behaviour nor truth is found in them. they say that this world is unreal,that there is no foundation and that there is no god in control.it is produced of sex desire,and has no cause other than lust. - How does god 'punish' asuraas? 16:21 Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach me.Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence. ## but in the purport it states that there is hope for the demoniac as... 16:21 the supreme lord has no hatred for anyone.the placing of the asuras, the demons, in the lowest status of life is simply another feature of his mercy. Sometimes the demons are killed by the supreme lord,but this killing is also good for them, for in vedic literature we find that anyone who is killed by the supreme lord becomes liberated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Religion and its sectarian teachers seem to be trying to driving us insane. A young Jewish terrorist, Yigal Amir, killed Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in November 1995. Asked why he did it, Amir replied, "God told me to do it!" Amir resented Rabin's efforts to work for peace. In Bosnia, Eastern Orthodox Christian Serbs kill Moslem Bosnians, and Roman Catholic Croats kill Serbs. Beneath the nationalistic rivalries lie deep religious hatreds: each of the three groups considers itself to embody the one "true" faith. Willy Claes, the Belgian Secretary-General of NATO, said in 1995 that "Islamic fundamentalism is at least as dangerous as Communism was." In Egypt, Pakistan, and Turkey Moslem extrem ists seek to overthrow Moslem rulers. "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail," Rabbi Yaacov Perrin told an Israeli audience at the funeral for Dr. Baruch Goldstein, slain by a Moslem terrorist. Perrin was seri ously misquot ing a passage from the biblical book of Exodus. "Never will I say that I am not an anti-Semite," declared black American leader Khalid Abdul Muhhamad of the Nation of Islam. "I pray that God will kill my enemy and take him off the face of planet Earth," he continued. His tapes are sold under the title "No Love for the Other Side." A three-month old boy was stabbed fatally in a cult ritual in Quebec recently because he was considered to be the Antichrist. To fulfill ritualistic demands, a wooden stake was driven through the baby's heart. Fifty-three persons in Quebec and Switzerland died through murder and suicide linked to this cult, the Order of the Solar Temple. A modern version of the Romeo and Juliet tragedy ended on a bridge in Sarajevo in 1995. Bosko Brkic, an Eastern Orthodox Serb, tried to flee to safety with his Moslem lover, Admira Ismic. While the lovers were crossing over the Miljacka River, Serbian and Moslem snipers fired at the unfortunate pair. Their lifeless entwined bodies lay for six days on the bullet-riddled bridge before being retrieved. Narrow religion daily reaps its ghastly toll. What can be done to divert religious activity from cruelty to caring love? The paradox of religion is that it is at once responsible for both the highest achievements and the cruelest inhumanity in human history. How can we understand this enigma? Why can not a believer realize the truth of the judgment of the Apostle John: "If anyone says 'I love God' but hates his brother, he is a liar." Divisive religion separates person from person, and some times people from God. In God's name many crimes have been perpetrated throughout history. In A.D. 747 a Moslem general invited eighty rival Moslems to a unity banquet. Instead, the rivals were slaughtered, leather hoods were placed over their bloody heads, and the general and his cohorts enjoyed the feast. In 1486 Aztec leaders in Mexico cut out the hearts of 20,000 live victims, allegedly to please a god. In the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre in 1572, French Catholics killed thousands of Protestants, even smashing embryos which had been torn from the wombs of slain mothers. In 1830 in India a male child was beheaded every Friday to appease the goddess Kali. In 1985 Sinhalese troops in Sri Lanka killed 150 Tamil civilians. A teacher's wife was breast feeding her baby when soldiers killed her, and then shot off her baby's toes for target practice. Divisive religion ends up in mutual self-destruction. In the Fourth Crusade Christian Catholics killed Christian Orthodox in a savage revenge of earlier killings. Moslems killed Moslems for years in the recent Iran-Iraq war---who can invoke the "holy war" in such folly? In modern Ireland Protestants and Catholics vie as to which can be more un-Christian towards the other. Is there no limit to the perversion of religious goals when divisive religion takes over? On the other hand, unitive religion has produced unparalleled heights of love, compassion, and forgiveness. Churches, schools, hospitals, and orphanages have served mankind's urgent needs when religion is on the right track. Hindus and Buddhists agree that whoever lives a good life, no matter what his faith, is on the path to God. The great Jewish philosopher Moses Maimonides said that "everyone who ennobles his soul with excellent morals and wisdom based on faith in God certainly belongs to the world to come." From the cross Jesus Christ forgave his slayers, as did the Sufi al-Hallaj in A.D. 922. The tenderness of St. Francis inspires persons of all faiths to love God's creation as a way of loving God. The medieval Catholic thinker Raymond Lully wrote three works in which Jewish, Roman Catholic, Orthodox Christian, Moslem, and Tatar points of view are presented with astonishing fairness, understanding, and tolerance. Recognizing the brotherhood of all of God's children, Moslems refuse to discriminate against persons because of their race, and frequently permit African converts to retain tribal practices and beliefs. When Allied troops liberated a concentra tion camp in World War II, they turned the Nazi oppressors over to the freed Jews. Rather than seek understandable personal revenge, the Jews turned the cruel Germans over to the law courts for judicial trial. During a mass on Good Friday, Pope John XXIII stopped the ritual in order to have anti-Semitic references eliminated on the spot. In April 1963 the Italian press reported that when Fernando Cardinal Cento inadvertently retained the phrase "perfidious Jews" in the mass, Pope John made him restart his prayer, deleting the phrase. Unitive religion continues to show mankind God's nature in action. The term "God" refers to "Goodness." When an alleged god is cruel, or wants humans to be cruel in his name, this is "goodness" being evil---a contradiction. This is divisive religion parading as true religion, which is the love of God and of human beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul108 Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 The best way to recognize true devotees is to become one yourself. Hare Krishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Then everyone becomes a devotee! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paarsurrey Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I was wondering similar things, so i looked some things up in the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. This is some of what i read on the subject. -How can you recognize true devotees? 1:29 Softheartedness 1:44 Conscious of moral principles 12:15 Since a devotee is kind to everyone, he does not act in such a way as to put others into anxiety.at the same time,if others try to put a devotee into anxiety,he is not disturbed. It is by the grace of the lord that he is so practised that he is not disturbed by any outward disturbance....... Hi Please don't mind. How would you explain the above for Krishna and Moses? I believe Krishna ,Moses and Jesus as Princes of Peace at different times and places yet with same morals. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paarsurrey Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 The best way to recognize true devotees is to become one yourself. Hare Krishna Hi One can only try to become one; would become one in reality if one is accepted by One- the Creator of the heavens and earth. The devotion has to be accepted by Him and acknowledged; otherwise one is not a devotee, in my opinion. Thanks and please don't mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 By Bhakta Narsigh Mehta. vaishnav jan to tene kahiye jay peerh paraaye janneyray par dukkhey upkar karey teeyey, man abhiman na anney ray sakal lokma sahuney bandhey, ninda na karey kainee ray baach kaachh, man nischal raakhey, dhan-dhan jananee tainee ray samdrishi nay trishna tyagee, par-stree jaynay mat ray vivihva thaki asatya na bolay, par-dhan nav jhaley haath ray moh maaya vyaayey nahin jeynay, dridth vairagya jana manma ray ram-nam-shoom taalee laagee, sakal teerth seyna tanma ray vanloohee nay kapat rahit chhay, kaam, krodh nivarya ray bhane narsinhyo tainoo darshan karta kul ekotair taarya re. In translation: One who is a Vaishnav, feels and understands the pain of others Does good to others, especially to those who are in misery Does not let pride enter his mind, A Vaishnav, honours and praises the the entire world Does not criticize or say bad things about anyone Keeps his words, actions and thoughts pure O Vaishnav, your mother is blessed A Vaishnav sees everything and everyone equally, rejects greed and avarice Respects women especially some one else's wife as his mother His toungue may get tired, but will never speak lies He does not even touch someone else's property A Vaishnav does not succumb to worldly attachments Who has devoted himself to staunch detachment from worldly pleasures Who has been addicted to the elixir of the name of God For whom all the sacred places of pilgrimage are in the mind Who has no greed and is not deceitful Who has renounced lust and anger The poet Narsi would like to see such a person By whose virtue, his entire family gets salvation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 ...and of course the one who stay away from Iskcon and similar or different nowadays ashramas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paarsurrey Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 By Bhakta Narsigh Mehta. In translation: One who is a Vaishnav, feels and understands the pain of others Does good to others, especially to those who are in misery Does not let pride enter his mind, A Vaishnav, honours and praises the the entire world Does not criticize or say bad things about anyone Keeps his words, actions and thoughts pure O Vaishnav, your mother is blessed A Vaishnav sees everything and everyone equally, rejects greed and avarice Respects women especially some one else's wife as his mother His toungue may get tired, but will never speak lies He does not even touch someone else's property A Vaishnav does not succumb to worldly attachments Who has devoted himself to staunch detachment from worldly pleasures Who has been addicted to the elixir of the name of God For whom all the sacred places of pilgrimage are in the mind Who has no greed and is not deceitful Who has renounced lust and anger The poet Narsi would like to see such a person By whose virtue, his entire family gets salvation Hi Sorry I could not understand and enjoy the original text; yet I do appreciate the translation. Thanks and regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 I request Mr.Suchandra to visit my blog and copy/paste the latest posts from there. Thanks and regards http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/449630-paarsurrey-original-vedas-were-not-man-s-fabrication.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amlesh Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hi Sorry I could not understand and enjoy the original text; yet I do appreciate the translation. Thanks and regards The original text was written in Gujrati language some 500 years ago. It was written by one of the Greatest Son of Gujrat. His name was Narsi Mehta. His story is really blissful. But the total meaning of this song is really difficult to extract.. though it might appear plain enough to understand, but in reality it does contain hidden gems to decipher. I appreaciate your openness Paarsurrey, really great from your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paarsurrey Posted October 26, 2008 Report Share Posted October 26, 2008 Paarsurrey says: I have just now searched for Narsi Mehta into the internet- one of my Virtual Universtities, and found out something more there: http://www.nagar.org/narsi_mehta.html Narsi Mehta says: Vaishnava Jana to He is a Vaishnava who feels for the suffering of another And forgets the good he does to another, never taking pride in it. Who cares not for the praise and condemnation of the world nor himself indulges in it. He is not attached to women and wealth; such a one is praiseworthy and a jewel to his family. He is the same to all, is desireless and the women of others he considers like unto his mother. He never speaks falsehood nor has he his eye on another one's wealth. He is no slave of any passion or attachment, and the spirit of renunciation rules his mind. His heart is fixed on the Lord, whom he is restless to meet, really his body is indeed a pilgrim's garb. He is neither avaricious, nor vile nor a victim to wrath and desire. Says Narsi, verily he and his family shall cross the cycle of rebirth. (Source: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan) Paarsurrey says: Thanks for introducing me to one of the jewels of humanity. Only GodAllahYHWH know best as to how many jewels lie buried under the earth; or consumed with fire or put to vultures. They all, in my opinion, are ascended to heavens with the grace and will of God. What they had to do with this world; they went where they truly belonged to! Praise be to ONE- the Creator of Heavens and Earth! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srikanthdk71 Posted October 27, 2008 Report Share Posted October 27, 2008 - How can you recognize true devotees?- How can you recoginize imposters or non-devotees? - How does god 'punish' asuraas? If you are starting an Institution here are some clues. How can you recognize true devotees? A. One who believes and listens to you only and no-body else. One who comes in a Car. One who fills the hundi with coins/notes. How can you recoginize imposters or non-devotees? A. One who question you are imposters or non-devotees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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